MAC331 Posted December 8, 2017 Report Share Posted December 8, 2017 1 hour ago, cross16 said: The Alberta economic terrain has been in constant change since the announcement of Calgary NEXT maybe even before. Politicians know how limited public funds are and the public's awareness of the situation. Murray Edwards of all people knows the state of Alberta's economy. I can understand why nobody is rushing to make a decision surrounding a new arena. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted December 8, 2017 Report Share Posted December 8, 2017 3 hours ago, cross16 said: Also... With Seattle officially applying for an expansion team, there goes one relocation destination for the Flames to hold this city hostage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted December 8, 2017 Report Share Posted December 8, 2017 4 minutes ago, The_People1 said: With Seattle officially applying for an expansion team, there goes one relocation destination for the Flames to hold this city hostage. Yup. Only downside is that between Houston and Quebec City there are still 2 very promising and good destinations the Flames can use as leverage. However, I think this is becoming more about egos then it is economics, relocation, whatever. If the city is unwilling to budge I could see Edwards and co selling just out of spite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted December 8, 2017 Report Share Posted December 8, 2017 8 minutes ago, cross16 said: Yup. Only downside is that between Houston and Quebec City there are still 2 very promising and good destinations the Flames can use as leverage. However, I think this is becoming more about egos then it is economics, relocation, whatever. If the city is unwilling to budge I could see Edwards and co selling just out of spite. I don't know how teams like the Panthers, Hurricanes, and Coyotes do it but I watched the Panthers highlights yesterday and man, was there even 5,000 people in the stands? Entire sections had no more than 15 people sitting in them. Arena couldn't have been 1/4 full and that's being nice. At quick glance, maybe only 1/10 full. Yet, the Flames are the ones in threat of moving to Houston or Quebec? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowtownguy Posted December 8, 2017 Report Share Posted December 8, 2017 10 minutes ago, cross16 said: Yup. Only downside is that between Houston and Quebec City there are still 2 very promising and good destinations the Flames can use as leverage. However, I think this is becoming more about egos then it is economics, relocation, whatever. If the city is unwilling to budge I could see Edwards and co selling just out of spite. Perhaps this is about individual personalities. I suspect that with the city cutting into public transit in the latest budget, it has a lot to do about money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted December 8, 2017 Report Share Posted December 8, 2017 42 minutes ago, The_People1 said: I don't know how teams like the Panthers, Hurricanes, and Coyotes do it but I watched the Panthers highlights yesterday and man, was there even 5,000 people in the stands? Entire sections had no more than 15 people sitting in them. Arena couldn't have been 1/4 full and that's being nice. At quick glance, maybe only 1/10 full. Yet, the Flames are the ones in threat of moving to Houston or Quebec? I can't believe anyone wants to keep the Panthers in Florida so no I totally agree. I think teams like Panthers, Coyotes, Islanders (arena issue) are all teams what would make more sense for relocation than the Flames. However, I believe that the NHL has a standard clause in its agreement when you buy a team and that is that unless you get BOG permission you can't move a franchise for 7 years. Florida's new owner bought the team in 2013 so he would still be bound by that clause. That was the clause that started the whole NHL vs Jim Ballisille controversy. 37 minutes ago, Cowtownguy said: Perhaps this is about individual personalities. I suspect that with the city cutting into public transit in the latest budget, it has a lot to do about money. It will always be about money, but the fact that there has been no meetings, no meeting scheduled and how messy it got in the public eye I believe ego is playing a large part of this as well. I think it's becoming a bigger issue than it should be let me say that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowtownguy Posted December 8, 2017 Report Share Posted December 8, 2017 15 minutes ago, cross16 said: It will always be about money, but the fact that there has been no meetings, no meeting scheduled and how messy it got in the public eye I believe ego is playing a large part of this as well. I think it's becoming a bigger issue than it should be let me say that. Money is a big part of it. I guess I also meant political capital. Building a new arena when you are cutting transit looks really bad. If the city raises taxes again, a lot of people are going to be choked and scream "Spendshi!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted December 8, 2017 Report Share Posted December 8, 2017 13 minutes ago, Cowtownguy said: Money is a big part of it. I guess I also meant political capital. Building a new arena when you are cutting transit looks really bad. If the city raises taxes again, a lot of people are going to be choked and scream "Spendshi!" They already agreed to increase taxes, and spending for that matter. Property taxes are going up 3.8% and non residential more although they are taking out of their rainy day fund to limit the impact of the non-residential tax increase. They also restored the money they had originally threatened to cut from Transit. https://globalnews.ca/news/3890788/calgary-city-council-passes-2018-budget-with-property-tax-hike/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABC923 Posted December 8, 2017 Report Share Posted December 8, 2017 Assuming Seattle gets an expansion, I would say the threat of moving the flames has diminished a lot in the near term. Quebec is not a great option for a western conference team, so I wouldn't worry much about them from a flames perspective. Houston maybe, but I'm not sure what their current arena situation is like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyerfan52 Posted December 8, 2017 Report Share Posted December 8, 2017 2 minutes ago, ABC923 said: Assuming Seattle gets an expansion, I would say the threat of moving the flames has diminished a lot in the near term. Quebec is not a great option for a western conference team, so I wouldn't worry much about them from a flames perspective. Houston maybe, but I'm not sure what their current arena situation is like. Houston would be a best case scenario should the NHL finally decide to end the farce of a team in Arizona. Market size similar & Houston has a history of supporting pro hockey including the Aeros of the old WHA. There is also the built in cross state rivalry with Dallas. The Houston time zone meshes nicely with the Central division. Add an expansion team in Seattle to balance divisions (with the owners pocketing the $650 million) & they might have got something right for a change. QC is most likely to be used as a fall back plan for if/when an eastern franchise has to be moved (like Wpg. was). With the cap & revenue sharing a more or less fool proof albeit small market that will fill the joint for fear of losing another team. A smaller market but 1/2 a million interested customers > 5 million potential 1s where only 10 thousand have any interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted December 8, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2017 3 hours ago, Cowtownguy said: Money is a big part of it. I guess I also meant political capital. Building a new arena when you are cutting transit looks really bad. If the city raises taxes again, a lot of people are going to be choked and scream "Spendshi!" Then why is our mayor wanting to spend billions of dollars to put our downtown LRT underground? Shortly after he nixed Next he was politicking to get some money(4 billion or something like that) to put the downtown LRT underground instead of the much cheaper above ground.. The there is the fiasco about the new LRT line that was supposed to be build all the way to the edge of the city and even though money was planned for, they suddenly can only afford to do 1/4 of it with that money? Where did that money go??? (techinically the money is still there but only buying 1/4 of what was bid?) A lot of pockets are being lined with that....... Look around the city. They are spending more on infrastructure that past couple years than I can ever recall with the exception of the 3/4 of Stoney Trail ring road. The city freezes taxes on this election year but they are going to make up those lost increases next year from the emergency fund.. Where do you think the emergency fund comes from?? I am not trying to rag on your comments so much CTG... I am just saying there are double standards happening for other areas of development and infrastructure, that put the Flames plans way down the list of money being spent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stubblejumper1 Posted December 9, 2017 Report Share Posted December 9, 2017 2 hours ago, DirtyDeeds said: Then why is our mayor wanting to spend billions of dollars to put our downtown LRT underground? Shortly after he nixed Next he was politicking to get some money(4 billion or something like that) to put the downtown LRT underground instead of the much cheaper above ground.. The there is the fiasco about the new LRT line that was supposed to be build all the way to the edge of the city and even though money was planned for, they suddenly can only afford to do 1/4 of it with that money? Where did that money go??? (techinically the money is still there but only buying 1/4 of what was bid?) A lot of pockets are being lined with that....... Look around the city. They are spending more on infrastructure that past couple years than I can ever recall with the exception of the 3/4 of Stoney Trail ring road. The city freezes taxes on this election year but they are going to make up those lost increases next year from the emergency fund.. Where do you think the emergency fund comes from?? I am not trying to rag on your comments so much CTG... I am just saying there are double standards happening for other areas of development and infrastructure, that put the Flames plans way down the list of money being spent. I think I get what you are saying, but could you clarify what you mean by 3/4 of the ring road? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted December 9, 2017 Report Share Posted December 9, 2017 10 hours ago, MAC331 said: The Alberta economic terrain has been in constant change since the announcement of Calgary NEXT maybe even before. Politicians know how limited public funds are and the public's awareness of the situation. Murray Edwards of all people knows the state of Alberta's economy. I can understand why nobody is rushing to make a decision surrounding a new arena. Murray Edwards now lives in London because he feels like he shouldn’t have to pay taxes the same as you or the next Canadian. the money he’s probably saving in taxes is probably the same as he needs the city to pay for an arena. Rich bs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted December 9, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2017 2 hours ago, stubblejumper1 said: I think I get what you are saying, but could you clarify what you mean by 3/4 of the ring road? we have only built 3/4 of it. It was a huge undertaking of capitol spending. They have signed the final 1/4( SW portion) agreements because it will be built on what was reservation land. I think there is some hold up while they finish some other projects like the 22x/Stoney - McLeod overpass upgrades first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stubblejumper1 Posted December 9, 2017 Report Share Posted December 9, 2017 9 hours ago, DirtyDeeds said: we have only built 3/4 of it. It was a huge undertaking of capitol spending. They have signed the final 1/4( SW portion) agreements because it will be built on what was reservation land. I think there is some hold up while they finish some other projects like the 22x/Stoney - McLeod overpass upgrades first. That is what I wanted to clarify. The city has signed off and funded the portion of the ring road through the reservation to Highway 8. However, the portion of the ring road from Highway 8 to 16th Avenue/Highway 1 has not been funded and does not have an ETA for construction. For some reason many people think the current phase of Stoney Trail construction will complete the Ring Road, but there is a significant stretch of road that will still have to be built at some point in the future. I live in the West End of the city and I would prefer to see the Ring Road completed before the City gives a pile of money to Murray Edwards to built a new rink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted December 9, 2017 Report Share Posted December 9, 2017 12 hours ago, robrob74 said: Murray Edwards now lives in London because he feels like he shouldn’t have to pay taxes the same as you or the next Canadian. the money he’s probably saving in taxes is probably the same as he needs the city to pay for an arena. Rich bs. Could be but I can tell you where Murray Edwards heart still remains. I wouldn't blame any Canadian for putting their monies out of harms way from these amateur politicians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted December 9, 2017 Report Share Posted December 9, 2017 1 hour ago, MAC331 said: Could be but I can tell you where Murray Edwards heart still remains. I wouldn't blame any Canadian for putting their monies out of harms way from these amateur politicians. All I am saying is you pay a percentage of your income to taxes, and he should do the same as anyone who is just a regular person with low-medium income. But the little guy is stuck paying a higher proportion of their income and can’t really get out of it like he is doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted December 9, 2017 Report Share Posted December 9, 2017 25 minutes ago, robrob74 said: All I am saying is you pay a percentage of your income to taxes, and he should do the same as anyone who is just a regular person with low-medium income. But the little guy is stuck paying a higher proportion of their income and can’t really get out of it like he is doing. Well you have no idea what he pays in taxes or the employment he creates in Western Canada. Not having municipal or provincial willingness to get this arena on the go doesn't rest solely with Murray Edwards. Sign of the times and I like that everyone has stepped back to re-think this development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted December 9, 2017 Report Share Posted December 9, 2017 15 minutes ago, MAC331 said: Well you have no idea what he pays in taxes or the employment he creates in Western Canada. Not having municipal or provincial willingness to get this arena on the go doesn't rest solely with Murray Edwards. Sign of the times and I like that everyone has stepped back to re-think this development. Ya, it really sucks. it is too bad they didn’t get the arena done when times were better. Nenshi hi is in the bad as well? I mean, going for an olympics that the city might not really afford. Vancouver brought in people, but it could’ve spiked foreign buyers even though it was already on the rise at that time... what other industry can Calgary get behind? Oil is a tough one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carty Posted December 9, 2017 Report Share Posted December 9, 2017 2 minutes ago, robrob74 said: what other industry can Calgary get behind? Oil is a tough one.. Buying very expensive and extremely ugly art... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted December 9, 2017 Report Share Posted December 9, 2017 10 minutes ago, robrob74 said: Ya, it really sucks. it is too bad they didn’t get the arena done when times were better. Nenshi hi is in the bad as well? I mean, going for an olympics that the city might not really afford. Vancouver brought in people, but it could’ve spiked foreign buyers even though it was already on the rise at that time... what other industry can Calgary get behind? Oil is a tough one... Marijuana 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted December 9, 2017 Report Share Posted December 9, 2017 7 minutes ago, MAC331 said: Marijuana With all of the medical M going around, it wouldn’t be that bad of an idea. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cccsberg Posted December 9, 2017 Report Share Posted December 9, 2017 7 minutes ago, robrob74 said: With all of the medical M going around, it wouldn’t be that bad of an idea. Offshoots of hemp (clothing industry) and hemp hearts (nutrition) with the right types..... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carty Posted December 9, 2017 Report Share Posted December 9, 2017 2 hours ago, stubblejumper1 said: I would prefer to see the Ring Road completed before the City gives a pile of money to Murray Edwards to built a new rink The ring road didn't seem to be as much of a priority as the Arts Commons... 6 levels and over 400,00 square feet and a lot of $$$... Constructed in the same economic downturn for which he claims economic hardship for being able to put money towards building a new arena... , The Arts Commons benefits a relatively small handful of people as a badly needed Arena and other sports facilities... Don't forget that construction of the Arts Commons was also done while Nenshi and co. put the field house he promised a few years back so far back on the agenda that you need binoculars to see it... and then he tossed a few $ towards sports and recreation to use this as part of his re-election campaign http://www.nenshi.ca/policy-recreation instead of keeping his promise... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stubblejumper1 Posted December 9, 2017 Report Share Posted December 9, 2017 20 minutes ago, Carty said: The ring road didn't seem to be as much of a priority as the Arts Commons... 6 levels and over 400,00 square feet and a lot of $$$... Constructed in the same economic downturn for which he claims economic hardship for being able to put money towards building a new arena... , The Arts Commons benefits a relatively small handful of people as a badly needed Arena and other sports facilities... Don't forget that construction of the Arts Commons was also done while Nenshi and co. put the field house he promised a few years back so far back on the agenda that you need binoculars to see it... and then he tossed a few $ towards sports and recreation to use this as part of his re-election campaign http://www.nenshi.ca/policy-recreation instead of keeping his promise... I agree. Nenshi has no desire to spend money in the west end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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