JTech780 Posted October 20, 2017 Report Share Posted October 20, 2017 4 minutes ago, cross16 said: Gaudreau - Monahan - Jagr Tkachuk - Bennett - Versteeg Ferland/Lazar - Backs - Frolik I don't agree with the top 6 - bottom 6 set up. You need 3 lines that can do everything if you want to compete. Flow of the game would determine the ice time. Is he better than them today? Probably not. Is he more skilled and does he have the potential to be better? IMO Yes. Flames have failed to develop that potential and instead of opted to run with the devil they know as opposed to the devil they don't. That's disappointing.. Bennett is 6th in forwards ice time averaging 14:43 a game, yet only has 5 shots on net this season, that's not good enough regardless of who his linemates are. I thought that Bennett had top line potential, but I am quickly starting to think otherwise. I have heard that he just doesn't get it. I don't think Bennett has done anything to show that he is capable of beating out anyone in the top 6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted October 20, 2017 Report Share Posted October 20, 2017 16 minutes ago, JTech780 said: I don't think Bennett has done anything to show that he is capable of beating out anyone in the top 6. I just don't agree. Playoffs in 2015, just about every pre season, playoffs last year, rookie season. When put in the right situation he has produced and shown you that skill set. I think people underrate how important situations are to development. Look at Couturier. Considered a bust by some and a defensive center and once he was put in an offensive role he is now producing. Even more important with someone as young as Bennett. 16 minutes ago, JTech780 said: Bennett is 6th in forwards ice time averaging 14:43 a game, yet only has 5 shots on net this season, that's not good enough regardless of who his linemates are. 8th in PP time though. Ferland has more PP time and Brouwer almost has as much. Also hard to produce much offence when your line is consistently burred in your own zone and by the time they do get an offensive break they have to change. Bennett is a part of that but not completely either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted October 20, 2017 Report Share Posted October 20, 2017 Another reason this is so frustrating is this is becoming a trend, not a one off. When the Flames take these talented players they can't seem to maximize their skill sets. Phaneuf, Baertschi and now Benentt all struggled with he Flames and heck even Backlund was going to be trade bait until the rebuild forced them to give him more opportunities and he took advantage of it, but up until then the Flames were giving them to him. So maybe i'm overeating but it's a trend that is becoming very frustrating. As much as i'm not a fan of Bennett on the wing at this point I'd much prefer they do that and bring up Jankowski if this is the way they are going to use him at center. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted October 20, 2017 Report Share Posted October 20, 2017 1 hour ago, cross16 said: Gaudreau - Monahan - Jagr Tkachuk - Bennett - Versteeg Ferland/Lazar - Backs - Frolik I don't agree with the top 6 - bottom 6 set up. You need 3 lines that can do everything if you want to compete. Flow of the game would determine the ice time. Is he better than them today? Probably not. Is he more skilled and does he have the potential to be better? IMO Yes. Flames have failed to develop that potential and instead of opted to run with the devil they know as opposed to the devil they don't. That's disappointing.. I would go with Bennett, Lazar and Brouwer on the line with the least minutes. Ferland-Backlund-Frolik Tkachuk-Janko-Versteeg Bennett-Lazar-Brouwer Sends a message to Bennett. Gets Lazar in (who plays 100% when he plays). Gets Janko on the team with a decent setup guy. Puts Ferland in a place that helps the team, even when he isn't scoring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted October 20, 2017 Report Share Posted October 20, 2017 25 minutes ago, cross16 said: Another reason this is so frustrating is this is becoming a trend, not a one off. When the Flames take these talented players they can't seem to maximize their skill sets. Phaneuf, Baertschi and now Benentt all struggled with he Flames and heck even Backlund was going to be trade bait until the rebuild forced them to give him more opportunities and he took advantage of it, but up until then the Flames were giving them to him. So maybe i'm overeating but it's a trend that is becoming very frustrating. As much as i'm not a fan of Bennett on the wing at this point I'd much prefer they do that and bring up Jankowski if this is the way they are going to use him at center. Like everyone else I have been reluctant to split up Gaudreau and Monahan because they put up the numbers. Last night I saw a line that wasted more time and saw Gaudreau be practically useless until the one goal managed. It seems we are either watching Gaudreau cough it up or looking for Monahan to enter the picture. I think a line of Gaudeau, Bennett and Jagr (for now) would have more exciting effectiveness. All the focus is on Bennett but what about how Tkachuk is being wasted on Backlund "checking" line. GG needs to define what he wants from these lines and arrange the talent properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted October 20, 2017 Report Share Posted October 20, 2017 Backlund showed more flare and glimpses of offensive promise at the same age than Bennett has so far. And Backlund only became a 53-point guy. Then again, Jarome Iginla looked hopelessly dumb at the same age too. No passing skills, no play making, no vision, no speed, etc. He had a hard shot and knew how to crash the net. That's it. And he turned into a 50-goal scorer so go figure. A one-in-a-million super grinder. If you tell me Sam Bennett will score 50-goals and hit 90-points at prime, then you got me there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABC923 Posted October 20, 2017 Report Share Posted October 20, 2017 My main problem with Bennett is his discipline. Too many bad penalties. I suspect he will be one of the ones to see reduced ice time next game. As alluded to in many other places, I think our lines could use a good shake up. The chemistry seems lacking these days between JG and SM, but they are both such great finishers that all it takes is one good shift and they pot one. Let's mix it up a bit, eh? Look at what type of game each player has, and try to compliment them. I think Bennett + Gaudreau would make a solid complimentary pairing, and the few times we've seen it I've liked it. The line of Gaudreau-Bennet-Lazar looked like it had potential to me. Bennett and Versteeg do not seem to be working, so why not try something else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted October 20, 2017 Report Share Posted October 20, 2017 2 hours ago, The_People1 said: Backlund showed more flare and glimpses of offensive promise at the same age than Bennett has so far. And Backlund only became a 53-point guy. I think this is where fans get a short memory. It took Backlund 5 seasons to put up the same numbers Bennett did in his rookie year and even if you go back as close as 2015 when Backlund re signed there were still many who doubted he was going to be anything more than a 3rd line center. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyerfan52 Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 8 hours ago, cross16 said: I just don't agree. Playoffs in 2015, just about every pre season, playoffs last year, rookie season. When put in the right situation he has produced and shown you that skill set. I think people underrate how important situations are to development. Look at Couturier. Considered a bust by some and a defensive center and once he was put in an offensive role he is now producing. Even more important with someone as young as Bennett. 8th in PP time though. Ferland has more PP time and Brouwer almost has as much. Also hard to produce much offence when your line is consistently burred in your own zone and by the time they do get an offensive break they have to change. Bennett is a part of that but not completely either. What is the "right situation"? Are you suggesting lines be re-arranged to play to Bennett's strengths @ the cost of things proven to work better? Since you use Couturier as an example I hope you've seen enough of him to realize that his 1st 5 years (yeah he came into the league @ 18) he was tasked with shutting down guys with names like Crosby, Malkin & Ovechkin (I assume you've heard of them ) but when asked to revert to the scoring he was known for before drafted is doing that seamlessly. If Bennett had been that shutdown type I could see your point but you are comparing apples & bananas there. You have to know I'd challenge that BS. If Bennett needs more PP time fine. Coachs hand that out by merit. Sam might or might not be great as we hoped but a coach isn't going to put his job on the line to help 1 player. BTW, great players take a situation & if there is an offensive break turn it to their advantage. I was 1 of the happiest to get Bennett but if you are realistic he's a dissappointment. Drafted as an ofensively gifted 2 way player he's proven to be neither when playing with men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LouCifer Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 I'm not ready to give up on Bennett. I think he's taking penalties because he's trying too hard, and trying to do too much every shift. I've seen the argument that you don't switch up the lines to get Bennett going - but I disagree. It's not about getting Bennett going, it's about getting the most out of your assets, to get the most out of your team. Part of being a coach is recognizing each player's abilities and trying to find complimentary players to "develop chemistry". Bennett doesn't seem to be developing chemistry with Versteeg. Rather than write off the player, I'd try something different. If Johnny and Mony were on a tear right now, I'd agree that you don't split them up - but they're not. I've advocated in the pairings thread for Bennett and Tkachuk to be put together this year to try to develop another "pairing"... but I liked what I saw when Johnny and Bennett were paired up. They bring speed that I don't see with Johnny and Mony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redfire11 Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 I don't think the Center position role in the NHL works with Bennetts style of play. He seems to always want to attack the puck. Instead of changing his style GG needs to change his position to left wing and take his restraints off. Bennett Jankowski Lazar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickross Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 I'm just glad BT extended Bennett at a reasonable cost, he would hold slightly more trade value as a C but I agree he's more effective on the wing. Freddie Hamilton has more points then Bennett right and Freddie's been a healthy scratch a few times this season. With the Jagr experiment underway on the top line I don't see Bennett getting time with Gaudreau anytime soon. Pairing him with Tkachuk would turn into the most penalized line in the NHL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 On 2017-10-20 at 10:00 AM, cross16 said: Another reason this is so frustrating is this is becoming a trend, not a one off. When the Flames take these talented players they can't seem to maximize their skill sets. Phaneuf, Baertschi and now Benentt all struggled with he Flames and heck even Backlund was going to be trade bait until the rebuild forced them to give him more opportunities and he took advantage of it, but up until then the Flames were giving them to him. So maybe i'm overeating but it's a trend that is becoming very frustrating. As much as i'm not a fan of Bennett on the wing at this point I'd much prefer they do that and bring up Jankowski if this is the way they are going to use him at center. Let's call a spade a spade, GG is getting this all wrong. This coach can't get past Gaudreau and Monahan being the most important pieces on his team. It seems everything else is secondary. He parks Tkachuk with Backlund and Frolik because he is a young kid and can learn there for a few seasons. This brings us to Bennett and his situation hardly being dealt any kind of recipe for success. Our 4th line is full of all our GM's mistake signings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowtownguy Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 16 hours ago, Flyerfan52 said: What is the "right situation"? Are you suggesting lines be re-arranged to play to Bennett's strengths @ the cost of things proven to work better? Since you use Couturier as an example I hope you've seen enough of him to realize that his 1st 5 years (yeah he came into the league @ 18) he was tasked with shutting down guys with names like Crosby, Malkin & Ovechkin (I assume you've heard of them ) but when asked to revert to the scoring he was known for before drafted is doing that seamlessly. If Bennett had been that shutdown type I could see your point but you are comparing apples & bananas there. You have to know I'd challenge that BS. If Bennett needs more PP time fine. Coachs hand that out by merit. Sam might or might not be great as we hoped but a coach isn't going to put his job on the line to help 1 player. BTW, great players take a situation & if there is an offensive break turn it to their advantage. I was 1 of the happiest to get Bennett but if you are realistic he's a dissappointment. Drafted as an ofensively gifted 2 way player he's proven to be neither when playing with men. I agree with you that he has been a disappointment. Maybe he never will become what many of us had hoped for. I would argue that it is still early and he has time to make adjustments. If it were simply a problem of not having the talent relative to other NHL players, I would not be troubled by his development and I would place no blame on the team/coach. It just seems as though the talent that he has is not translating into performance for some reason, and now it is a psychological problem. I would not be surprised if we traded him to another team, and that team finds a way to help him adjust, if slowly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 19 hours ago, cross16 said: I think this is where fans get a short memory. It took Backlund 5 seasons to put up the same numbers Bennett did in his rookie year and even if you go back as close as 2015 when Backlund re signed there were still many who doubted he was going to be anything more than a 3rd line center. It's not about hard numbers as much as it's about the eye ball test. Backlund couldn't finish early on and played like a 50 to 70 point guy years before he finally broke out. Just shoots wide on breakaways and into goalies chests. Frustrating to watch but at least he was getting chances. Bennett is not even getting chances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 1 hour ago, MAC331 said: Let's call a spade a spade, GG is getting this all wrong. This coach can't get past Gaudreau and Monahan being the most important pieces on his team. It seems everything else is secondary. He parks Tkachuk with Backlund and Frolik because he is a young kid and can learn there for a few seasons. This brings us to Bennett and his situation hardly being dealt any kind of recipe for success. Our 4th line is full of all our GM's mistake signings. I don't agree with some of Gully's decisions. He's focused on the top line and adding Jagr to complete the picture, but that is because they are leading the team again in points. I don't have a problem with that. While I do think it's time to move Tkachuk from the best shutdown line, he's one of our best players there. Maybe he excels with Bennett, but that's a hard decision to make. Bennett has had a collection of players to work with and has produced nothing. He has been taking lazy penalties. There's no answer to the Bennett situation that doesn't create issues elsewhere. Move him to the wing and we have a hole at center, regardless of what line he plays on. Play him with Tkachuk and we have gritty players and the penalty leaders playing together. Lazar is all compete, but I haven't seen enough of him at center to show he is ready for the assignment. The 4th line is annoying me. Getting hemmed in too much. A worry against any top line. Matty looks like time has passed him by. Freddie isn;t the answer. Time to make some tough decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowtownguy Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 1 hour ago, travel_dude said: I don't agree with some of Gully's decisions. He's focused on the top line and adding Jagr to complete the picture, but that is because they are leading the team again in points. I don't have a problem with that. While I do think it's time to move Tkachuk from the best shutdown line, he's one of our best players there. Maybe he excels with Bennett, but that's a hard decision to make. Bennett has had a collection of players to work with and has produced nothing. He has been taking lazy penalties. There's no answer to the Bennett situation that doesn't create issues elsewhere. Move him to the wing and we have a hole at center, regardless of what line he plays on. Play him with Tkachuk and we have gritty players and the penalty leaders playing together. Lazar is all compete, but I haven't seen enough of him at center to show he is ready for the assignment. The 4th line is annoying me. Getting hemmed in too much. A worry against any top line. Matty looks like time has passed him by. Freddie isn;t the answer. Time to make some tough decisions. Well, I think we are in agreement that Jankowski should be brought up. That would fill the hole at centre if Bennett is moved to the wing. I don't get why he isn't being brought up. We lack in the scoring department and the dude looks like he might put up points in the NHL. He also has a bit of size to him. I admit to not seeing him play a whole lot though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 5 hours ago, travel_dude said: I don't agree with some of Gully's decisions. He's focused on the top line and adding Jagr to complete the picture, but that is because they are leading the team again in points. I don't have a problem with that. While I do think it's time to move Tkachuk from the best shutdown line, he's one of our best players there. Maybe he excels with Bennett, but that's a hard decision to make. Bennett has had a collection of players to work with and has produced nothing. He has been taking lazy penalties. There's no answer to the Bennett situation that doesn't create issues elsewhere. Move him to the wing and we have a hole at center, regardless of what line he plays on. Play him with Tkachuk and we have gritty players and the penalty leaders playing together. Lazar is all compete, but I haven't seen enough of him at center to show he is ready for the assignment. The 4th line is annoying me. Getting hemmed in too much. A worry against any top line. Matty looks like time has passed him by. Freddie isn;t the answer. Time to make some tough decisions. This is what I call not seeing the forest for the trees and as I keep saying if you don't change anything for the better, expect the same. If Gaudreau and Bennett are a better answer for the team than Gaudreau/Monahan as a coach I want to find that out. This thinking of Tkachuk with Backlund and Frolik is hog wash, Versteeg built his entire career being that 3rd line Winger. That line wouldn't miss a beat taking Tkachuk off it. Put Tkachuk with a now experienced Monahan with Lazar on RW, worth a try IMO hey we just might have something here. If we can't get the scoring from the top 9 maybe GG needs to think about a 4th line with some scoring ability with Ferland, Jankowski and Poirier for a real change. I don't know about you but it isn't hard to identify what is holding this team back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 1 hour ago, MAC331 said: This what I call not seeing the forest for the trees and as I keep saying if you don't change anything for the better, expect the same. If Gaudreau and Bennett are a better answer for the team than Gaudreau/Monahan as a coach I want to find that out. This thinking of Tkachuk with Backlund and Frolik is hog wash, Versteeg built his entire career eing that 3rd line Winger. That line wouldn't miss a beat taking Tkachuk off it. Put Tkachuk with a now experienced Monahan with Lazar on RW, worth a try IMO hey we just might have something here. If we can't get the scoring from the top maybe GG needs to think about a 4th line with some scoring ability with Ferland, Jankowski and Poirier for a real change. I don't know about you but it isn't hard to identify what is holding this team back. Very little evidence to suggest that Bennett-Johnny would be better or even as good as Monahan-Johnny. One game where it worked for 1/2 a game. Next game not so much. You like to call a lot of things hogwash, but the evidence that it works is there. Backlund with a career year after being given a rookie to coddle. Maybe Johnny and Tkachuk should swap spots if you want to try something with two lines that actually work. You know that Johnny has combined with Frolik and Backlund in previous games. Tkachuk's speed would match Jagr and Monahan. Still two good lines available. You can then give Backlund a bit better zone starts. The tough decisions I talk about on the 4th line would be bringing up Mangiapane and Janko. Two guys that are lighting it up in the AHL. Can always elevate Bread-eater or Janko, depending on 3rd line construction. Keep Bennett at C, then you can always bump up Bread-eater. Move Bennett to wing, you can elevate Janko. Tough decisions would be waiving Freddie and Stajan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 1 hour ago, travel_dude said: Very little evidence to suggest that Bennett-Johnny would be better or even as good as Monahan-Johnny. One game where it worked for 1/2 a game. Next game not so much. You like to call a lot of things hogwash, but the evidence that it works is there. Backlund with a career year after being given a rookie to coddle. Maybe Johnny and Tkachuk should swap spots if you want to try something with two lines that actually work. You know that Johnny has combined with Frolik and Backlund in previous games. Tkachuk's speed would match Jagr and Monahan. Still two good lines available. You can then give Backlund a bit better zone starts. The tough decisions I talk about on the 4th line would be bringing up Mangiapane and Janko. Two guys that are lighting it up in the AHL. Can always elevate Bread-eater or Janko, depending on 3rd line construction. Keep Bennett at C, then you can always bump up Bread-eater. Move Bennett to wing, you can elevate Janko. Tough decisions would be waiving Freddie and Stajan. There again I am not disputing that something works what I am saying is take a risk that something different just might work a whole lot better. Answer me this, do you not think Versteeg could not do the same job with the same results as Tkachuk with Backlund ? Why do you want everyone on a line to have the same speed ? I would rather have some speed with Jagr to make up for him being older and slower. Who is Bread-eater, speak English. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LouCifer Posted October 22, 2017 Report Share Posted October 22, 2017 56 minutes ago, MAC331 said: Who is Bread-eater, speak English. Mangiapane translated from Italian to English is "Eat Bread", or "Bread eater" as TD suggested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LouCifer Posted October 22, 2017 Report Share Posted October 22, 2017 You know what, maybe it is time for Bennett to be moved to the wing. I'd prefer that happens only if Janko gets called up and centers him. I don't want Janko playing 4th line. If he comes up, he plays 3rd line C, and moves Bennett to wing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
420since1974 Posted October 22, 2017 Report Share Posted October 22, 2017 Why is it that so many here want to move Bennett to left wing "to make room for" Jankowski? Why not try out Jankowski on Bennett's LW? That way, MJ could start out with fewer responsibilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
electrical_ace Posted October 22, 2017 Report Share Posted October 22, 2017 I don't care where we play him. He has enough talent that he will get noticed anywhere we slot him in. Just call him up already. I truly believe he will make us better. Jankowski is being wasted in AHL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kehatch Posted October 22, 2017 Report Share Posted October 22, 2017 38 minutes ago, 420since1974 said: Why is it that so many here want to move Bennett to left wing "to make room for" Jankowski? Why not try out Jankowski on Bennett's LW? That way, MJ could start out with fewer responsibilities. 1) Bennett hasn't played well at centre and should be moved to the wing regardless of Jankowski. 2) Jankowski is the stereotypical centre and fits really well at the position. Meanwhile Bennett's skill set compliments the wing much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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