Official Sam Bennett Discussion Thread

[cccsberg]

I've been suggesting Tkachuk get put on Bennett's LW and Jankowski go to Backlund's LW to start the season, as I'd like to spread the offence out more and believe Tkachuk-Bennett could become another solid pair for years to come.  Thinking about this it makes me wonder about the many personalities on the team and who's getting along with whom.  With Bennett being the Flames highest draft pick EVER and having high expectations himself, modelling his game after Dougie Gilmour, it makes me wonder how his head is these days with others doing much better, amplified by Tkachuk's huge success last season?  It would be interesting to know the internal dressing room dynamics and who is stepping up in a leadership role and drawing the team together?  

 

This line of thought reminds me of Puljujarvi with the Oilers, who basically came into his draft the toast of the town, who dropped in the draft getting passed over by a Finn GM, then arrives in Edmonton second or third or fourth fiddle below McDavid and all..... Maybe he just wasn't ready but I always felt there was a psychological component too.  To get back to Bennett, I've no doubt similar things are happening with him and it may be taking time to adjust.  Much like his mentor and hero, Gilmour, he may need to either get that first line elevation or traded to truly motivate him to fulfill his true potential?

[MAC331]

30 minutes ago, cccsberg said:

I've been suggesting Tkachuk get put on Bennett's LW and Jankowski go to Backlund's LW to start the season, as I'd like to spread the offence out more and believe Tkachuk-Bennett could become another solid pair for years to come.  Thinking about this it makes me wonder about the many personalities on the team and who's getting along with whom.  With Bennett being the Flames highest draft pick EVER and having high expectations himself, modelling his game after Dougie Gilmour, it makes me wonder how his head is these days with others doing much better, amplified by Tkachuk's huge success last season?  It would be interesting to know the internal dressing room dynamics and who is stepping up in a leadership role and drawing the team together?  

 

This line of thought reminds me of Puljujarvi with the Oilers, who basically came into his draft the toast of the town, who dropped in the draft getting passed over by a Finn GM, then arrives in Edmonton second or third or fourth fiddle below McDavid and all..... Maybe he just wasn't ready but I always felt there was a psychological component too.  To get back to Bennett, I've no doubt similar things are happening with him and it may be taking time to adjust.  Much like his mentor and hero, Gilmour, he may need to either get that first line elevation or traded to truly motivate him to fulfill his true potential?

I honestly don't see a need for all this concern with Bennett. He came on very well in the last few months and I think we all agree he needs some decent line mates in order to show his stuff. You can't be a one man show at the NHL level if you want to have success. Give him Tkachuk and an experienced Versteeg, take away the excuses and let's see what happens.

As far as his contract goes I think BT has to take into consideration what will happen with Backlund and Tkachuk as well.

[rickross]

I can't see them being that far apart in terms of term and $'s but you never know. Wouldn't surprise me if Bennett was trying to secure position security, if they commit to him as a pure centre or will he be alternating to play on the wing? He could command a bit more $ if they expect him to play multiple positions. Hard to blame him as it can be hard to transition between positions if your not prepared or comfortable. Personally I think he's more effective on the wing but it's a huge win if they can develop him as a top 6 C moving forward

[kehatch]

Bennett's a tough contract because he is potentially on the verge of a breakout, he is a high draft pick, and he regressed offensively but did so playing a tougher position. 

 

That said, it makes zero sense for either party to have this go past camp. Both need Bennett to play well this season and for Bennett he wants to establish his spot in camp. 

 

My guess is 2x2.2. That's a but under value, but the Flames have more leverage. That said, it won't shock me to see the dollar as high as three. It also won't shock me if it turns into a one year deal to get him signed.

[MAC331]

5 hours ago, kehatch said:

Bennett's a tough contract because he is potentially on the verge of a breakout, he is a high draft pick, and he regressed offensively but did so playing a tougher position. 

 

That said, it makes zero sense for either party to have this go past camp. Both need Bennett to play well this season and for Bennett he wants to establish his spot in camp. 

 

My guess is 2x2.2. That's a but under value, but the Flames have more leverage. That said, it won't shock me to see the dollar as high as three. It also won't shock me if it turns into a one year deal to get him signed.

It is a tough decision for both sides. If I am Bennett I might be offering a 1 year deal so as to not be in the same negotiation time as Tkachuk for dollars.

[kehatch]

1 minute ago, MAC331 said:

It is a tough decision for both sides. If I am Bennett I might be offing a 1 year deal so as to not be in the same negotiation time as Tkachuk for dollars.

 

I am sure Bennett very much prefers a 1 year deal. Gives him a chance to earn a raise quickly. 

 

The Flames probably want 3. Protect his RFA status but get value for as long as possible if he does break out this year. 

[The_People1]

18 hours ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

 

Sure! when does it start?

 

I would agree, thats why I was surprised that the hockey news had him scoring that much, thats a heck of alot of even strength scoring. But also its not unreasonable that he might get some 2nd unit minutes this year, but then you probably see backlund or frolik get less minutes, its kind of a sticky situation.

 

We will send invites in September.  Will keep you posted.

 

Unless some injuries happen where Bennett gets premium 1st line minutes for extended periods of the season, I also don't see 50+ points.  

[cccsberg]

6 hours ago, MAC331 said:

I honestly don't see a need for all this concern with Bennett. He came on very well in the last few months and I think we all agree he needs some decent line mates in order to show his stuff. You can't be a one man show at the NHL level if you want to have success. Give him Tkachuk and an experienced Versteeg, take away the excuses and let's see what happens.

As far as his contract goes I think BT has to take into consideration what will happen with Backlund and Tkachuk as well.

Personally I agree with Tkachuk and Versteeg/...other? Bennett will do fine, but I am concerned about the contract as if it was no problem it would already be done.  The lack of contract would appear to be holding up the final signings of Kulak and Wotherspoon which I'm pretty sure will be done one way or another by training camp as they would appear to be essential for the Flames going forward.  Perhaps you are correct and what is really happening behind the scenes is issues surrounding Backlund contract negotiations?  From the outside we do not know.  The only thing we know for sure is that at least three contracts for RFAs remain unsigned, as does the Backlund re-signing, assuming the team wants to do that going forward.  

 

As this is a very slow hockey time, not much else to discuss but the obvious things still remaining.  I see a few comments about the upcoming Hockey Pool and wonder if any of the mainstays might be interested in a wager relative to whether or not Bennett is signed prior to training camp opening?  Something along the lines of a swap of picks (trade up to the nearest pick for the winner(2L-2H, 3H-2L)) in say the second/third round?

[MAC331]

Just now, cccsberg said:

Personally I agree with Tkachuk and Versteeg/...other? Bennett will do fine, but I am concerned about the contract as if it was no problem it would already be done.  The lack of contract would appear to be holding up the final signings of Kulak and Wotherspoon which I'm pretty sure will be done one way or another by training camp as they would appear to be essential for the Flames going forward.  Perhaps you are correct and what is really happening behind the scenes is issues surrounding Backlund contract negotiations?  From the outside we do not know.  The only thing we know for sure is that at least three contracts for RFAs remain unsigned, as does the Backlund re-signing, assuming the team wants to do that going forward.  

 

As this is a very slow hockey time, not much else to discuss but the obvious things still remaining.  I see a few comments about the upcoming Hockey Pool and wonder if any of the mainstays might be interested in a wager relative to whether or not Bennett is signed prior to training camp opening?  Something along the lines of a swap of picks (trade up to the nearest pick for the winner(2L-2H, 3H-2L)) in say the second/third round?

I honestly don't know what to say about a contract for Bennett. Should he get anymore than what they gave Ferland ? Based on performance to date I wouldn't say he should. I would say a 2 year term looks in order while he works his way to a larger number. I like Bennett and I think he can surpass Monahan as our #1 C on this team but he needs a line mate like Tkachuk in order to do it.

[conundrumed]

On 8/20/2017 at 2:18 PM, The_People1 said:

 

Want to join our message board hockey pool this year?  We've been doing it for many years now.

 

In terms of Bennett as a fantasy hockey sleeper, I wouldn't think so.  Or at least, I would say there are many others I would pick ahead of him.  The main reason is, you're looking for an up and coming guy slated to play top 6, preferably 1st line where he can scrub his way to cheap assists where his talents alone fall short.

 

Aka, Travis Konecny, slated as 1st line LW with Giroux - Voracek. He only had 28-points last season so he might not get picked in most pools but he was a big time scorer in Juniors with a great offensive role on his hands.  He could burst out for 50 to 60-points.

 

Bennett has talent, yes.  But he has to deal with organizational depth at C and LW.  He's slated to start the season as the 3rd line C and has to earn his way up the depth chart. This means likely few PP chances until he proves himself.

Didn't you draft Bennett last year, or am I mistaken?

I thought it was a good grab, but you just never know. I'm almost at a point of (again) rating Flames players low because it's a vested interest that I'm slow to get rid of.

Do u plan on finishing last again peeps? j/k

I plan on taking a big lead into March again, start mouthing off, and losing.

For this year, Brayden Point will be one of my sleepers, but I have 1/2 a dozenish, including Konecny. Trochek's another. I'm loving these 5'10"/5'11" guys that play like they're 6'3". Ho-Sang is another guy that is anything but soft.

There is my propaganda, lol.

[travel_dude]

18 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

I honestly don't know what to say about a contract for Bennett. Should he get anymore than what they gave Ferland ? Based on performance to date I wouldn't say he should. I would say a 2 year term looks in order while he works his way to a larger number. I like Bennett and I think he can surpass Monahan as our #1 C on this team but he needs a line mate like Tkachuk in order to do it.

 

Ferland just signed his third contract.  He signed as a guy that played half the year in the AHL and went on to perform well in the playoffs.  His 1st and second years of that contract were 18 and 25 points respectively.  I don't really see the comp between the two players situations or results.  But that's just me.  Bennett is younger, has done more in his time here, and is a center.  He should be worth more than a winger.

[Flyerfan52]

Bennett has had 3 years (I know year 1 was 1 game) to adapt to the men's game. So far he really hasn't proven he can.

Blame it on lack of minutes or linemates all you want but IMO if you have what it takes you prove you are worth bigger minutes & make the coach think that with top end linemates you will regain the fire that made you a great junior. It's time he proves he has that fire in his belly as a sporatic good game to keep people excited doesn't cut it.

A 1-2 year bridge @ 1.5-2 is what he's earned. What he does from there depends on him. I hope he takes the bit in his mouth & blows everyone away.

 

I have/had great hopes for him but it's time he shows it's not misplaced. You're not a rookie anymore Sam so step up to the plate or sit down while the big boys play. 1 more point than whipping boy Brouwer in 7 more games doesn't cut it.

[cross16]

On 8/20/2017 at 2:18 PM, The_People1 said:

 

In terms of Bennett as a fantasy hockey sleeper, I wouldn't think so.  Or at least, I would say there are many others I would pick ahead of him.  

 

FWIW, this is Gulutzan in an interview with the Herald the other day.

Quote

 

WG: Which Calgary Flame do we need to need to pick in our hockey pool this year?

 

GG: “Sam Bennett. You look at the maturation of these players, and he’s had a good summer. I’ve talked to him a couple of times. So I think that’s the young guy that if I want a big leap, I’d pick him.”

 

http://calgaryherald.com/sports/hockey/nhl/calgary-flames/qa-flames-coach-glen-gulutzan-excited-by-solid-defence-maturing-forwards

 

 

Not that I disagree with your point, I just thought it was an interesting and relevant topic. 

[MAC331]

16 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Ferland just signed his third contract.  He signed as a guy that played half the year in the AHL and went on to perform well in the playoffs.  His 1st and second years of that contract were 18 and 25 points respectively.  I don't really see the comp between the two players situations or results.  But that's just me.  Bennett is younger, has done more in his time here, and is a center.  He should be worth more than a winger.

Slightly at this point but not a lot more is my thinking. I wouldn't be shocked to see 2 years at 2.5M with the anticipation they want to see way better results from Bennett.

[cccsberg]

15 hours ago, Flyerfan52 said:

Bennett has had 3 years (I know year 1 was 1 game) to adapt to the men's game. So far he really hasn't proven he can.

Blame it on lack of minutes or linemates all you want but IMO if you have what it takes you prove you are worth bigger minutes & make the coach think that with top end linemates you will regain the fire that made you a great junior. It's time he proves he has that fire in his belly as a sporatic good game to keep people excited doesn't cut it.

A 1-2 year bridge @ 1.5-2 is what he's earned. What he does from there depends on him. I hope he takes the bit in his mouth & blows everyone away.

 

I have/had great hopes for him but it's time he shows it's not misplaced. You're not a rookie anymore Sam so step up to the plate or sit down while the big boys play. 1 more point than whipping boy Brouwer in 7 more games doesn't cut it.

Yes, absolutely.  Time to keep things in perspective and let go of the high draft assumptions.  This is the NHL, not Juniors.  Having said that, I think he can do more and would love to see him do it.  The thing that has been apparent about Bennett, even way back to Juniors was that he is more of a lone wolf "do-it-yourself" guy that a team "make your line mates better" type of player.  In the NHL where D is better and teams can pretty much focus on and basically eliminate any one player, the latter is what really counts and SB has had a difficult time adapting.  He definitely has the skill to do so, and certainly better line mates would help, but what is best for the team overall?  I believe Bennett will have his opportunity to prove and establish himself at C for the early part of the season, but if he falters there will be pressure to move him to wing ~permanently... not that that is necessarily a bad thing.

[AlbertaBoy12]

4 hours ago, cccsberg said:

Yes, absolutely.  Time to keep things in perspective and let go of the high draft assumptions.  This is the NHL, not Juniors.  Having said that, I think he can do more and would love to see him do it.  The thing that has been apparent about Bennett, even way back to Juniors was that he is more of a lone wolf "do-it-yourself" guy that a team "make your line mates better" type of player.  In the NHL where D is better and teams can pretty much focus on and basically eliminate any one player, the latter is what really counts and SB has had a difficult time adapting.  He definitely has the skill to do so, and certainly better line mates would help, but what is best for the team overall?  I believe Bennett will have his opportunity to prove and establish himself at C for the early part of the season, but if he falters there will be pressure to move him to wing ~permanently... not that that is necessarily a bad thing.

Where did you get this do it yourself idea from? bennett had 55 assists in junior the season he got drafted, I mean I dont think anyone remembers who he played with,but it wasent exactly like kingston was full of all stars they arent london for example. The only players of note that I can find off his 13-14 team are Crouse and Watson, its kind of unfair to say that he didnt make players better though.  I dont know off the top of my head who played with in his draft year but the two names below him in scoring on the team are henri ikonen and spencer watson, both had career seasons in the OHL the same year bennett did, so either they were playing on different lines or bennett might have made those two better with his 55 assists. I only say that because neither of those players are anything of note now. 

[cccsberg]

24 minutes ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

Where did you get this do it yourself idea from? bennett had 55 assists in junior the season he got drafted, I mean I dont think anyone remembers who he played with,but it wasent exactly like kingston was full of all stars they arent london for example. The only players of note that I can find off his 13-14 team are Crouse and Watson, its kind of unfair to say that he didnt make players better though.  I dont know off the top of my head who played with in his draft year but the two names below him in scoring on the team are henri ikonen and spencer watson, both had career seasons in the OHL the same year bennett did, so either they were playing on different lines or bennett might have made those two better with his 55 assists. I only say that because neither of those players are anything of note now. 

The views come from watching him play in Calgary.  He seems(ed) more interesting in bulling his way to the net to create an opportunity, often through 2-3 players instead of finding an open man and utilizing his partners on the ice.  This style being just the opposite of Gaudreau, for instance, who would probably benefit being a little more proactive himself.  I seem to recall many instances where he did this, and indeed created havoc and some limited chances in net-front scrums, but at the same time missing opportunities where his line mates ended up wide-open.  Perhaps they go hand-in-hand, perhaps not, the observation was that this was his style and it certainly led to my impression that it was his modus operandi and that he needed to grow into/change that style to become more effective overall.  

 

On another, but related topic, his aggression is also a mixed blessing, especially since the refs seemed intent on focusing on it and punishing him with numerous penalties, of the stupid variety that hurt the team last year, including the playoffs.  Playing on the edge was and is an important part of his game but he needs to be able to figure out where that boundary is and stop before he gets called.  Ferland against VCR in the playoffs is a perfect example of that and something SB hasn't seemed to be able to figure out yet, giving him the benefit of the doubt.

[cccsberg]

Following up with previous comment, I personally believe SB is supremely talented and can transition to an exceptional player at the NHL level, just that he is not there yet and it remains to be seen if he will in Calgary.  Some guys never do make that transition (i.e. Yakupov), or if they do it takes a kick in the head like a trade before they finally clue in and do what is necessary.   I hope GG breaks up the 3M line this season and puts Tkachuk with Bennett, allowing them to mesh and grow together, with the added benefit that perhaps SB could tone it down a bit since Tkachuk can carry the aggressor role for the line and perhaps teach SB a few things about being more subtle/taking others with him to the penalty box.  The added benefit is Tkachuk is a great distributor down low and I think they would work well together and this could be the Backlund replacement line in a few years (or less) depending on how the Backlund re-signing goes.

[MAC331]

Just now, cccsberg said:

Following up with previous comment, I personally believe SB is supremely talented and can transition to an exceptional player at the NHL level, just that he is not there yet and it remains to be seen if he will in Calgary.  Some guys never do make that transition (i.e. Yakupov), or if they do it takes a kick in the head like a trade before they finally clue in and do what is necessary.   I hope GG breaks up the 3M line this season and puts Tkachuk with Bennett, allowing them to mesh and grow together, with the added benefit that perhaps SB could tone it down a bit since Tkachuk can carry the aggressor role for the line and perhaps teach SB a few things about being more subtle/taking others with him to the penalty box.

I would say Bennett learned plenty from beginning to the finish of this past season. When these players are coming in at such a young age now I think they struggle to show they belong with aggressive play initially. Maturity doesn't happen over night and I think both him and Tkachuk will pick their spots this coming season. The one aspect to Bennett's game that needs to improve would be puck distribution, otherwise I wouldn't change a thing. If people didn't notice Tkachuk is very much a playmaker, another reason he and Bennett should do well together.

[The_People1]

22 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Didn't you draft Bennett last year, or am I mistaken?

I thought it was a good grab, but you just never know. I'm almost at a point of (again) rating Flames players low because it's a vested interest that I'm slow to get rid of.

Do u plan on finishing last again peeps? j/k

I plan on taking a big lead into March again, start mouthing off, and losing.

For this year, Brayden Point will be one of my sleepers, but I have 1/2 a dozenish, including Konecny. Trochek's another. I'm loving these 5'10"/5'11" guys that play like they're 6'3". Ho-Sang is another guy that is anything but soft.

There is my propaganda, lol.

 

Yups, I took Bennett as my sleeper and boy did he go to sleep.  

 

Trochek is a great player.  Radulov has found a great situation in Dallas.  Drouin could come through for the Habs this year on a big way.  Eberle could rebound and hit 70-points again.

 

What about Marleau?  Seems will be first line with Matthews.  Can he keep up all year?

 

(That all for my misdirections before the draft.)

[The_People1]

15 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

FWIW, this is Gulutzan in an interview with the Herald the other day.

 

Not that I disagree with your point, I just thought it was an interesting and relevant topic. 

 

Bennett will do well in leagues with PIMs and intangibles.  I already think he's good the defensive side of his game nailed down.  Next step is generating offense without losing much of the defensive game... Not that fantasy hockey cares about definitive game too much.

 

Let me know if you want back in this year.

 

[The_People1]

56 minutes ago, cccsberg said:

The views come from watching him play in Calgary.  He seems(ed) more interesting in bulling his way to the net to create an opportunity, often through 2-3 players instead of finding an open man and utilizing his partners on the ice.  This style being just the opposite of Gaudreau, for instance, who would probably benefit being a little more proactive himself.  I seem to recall many instances where he did this, and indeed created havoc and some limited chances in net-front scrums, but at the same time missing opportunities where his line mates ended up wide-open.  Perhaps they go hand-in-hand, perhaps not, the observation was that this was his style and it certainly led to my impression that it was his modus operandi and that he needed to grow into/change that style to become more effective overall.  

 

On another, but related topic, his aggression is also a mixed blessing, especially since the refs seemed intent on focusing on it and punishing him with numerous penalties, of the stupid variety that hurt the team last year, including the playoffs.  Playing on the edge was and is an important part of his game but he needs to be able to figure out where that boundary is and stop before he gets called.  Ferland against VCR in the playoffs is a perfect example of that and something SB hasn't seemed to be able to figure out yet, giving him the benefit of the doubt.

 

Right on man.

 

Bennett plays Corey Perry in your face hockey but doesn't have Corey Perry's 6'-3" 210lb body.  

 

There's two ways for Bennett to go.

1. Bulk up to 210lb.

2. Give up what made him successful in Juniors and play a more perimeter style of game.

 

Both are hard to do.  D in the NHL are too strong to let a guy 6'-0" 185lb bully them physically.

[MAC331]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

Right on man.

 

Bennett plays Corey Perry in your face hockey but doesn't have Corey Perry's 6'-3" 210lb body.  

 

There's two ways for Bennett to go.

1. Bulk up to 210lb.

2. Give up what made him successful in Juniors and play a more perimeter style of game.

 

Both are hard to do.  D in the NHL are too strong to let a guy 6'-0" 185lb bully them physically.

His size is hardly a detriment to how he plays so I'm not sure how you came up with this analogy. Can he be smarter about enhancing his style to be more effective using his line mates, I hope so. This is where he needs to grow his game not necessarily subtract from it.

[The_People1]

The more I think about it, the more I think Sam Bennett's game reminds me of Daymond Langkow.

[conundrumed]

3 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Yups, I took Bennett as my sleeper and boy did he go to sleep.  

 

Trochek is a great player.  Radulov has found a great situation in Dallas.  Drouin could come through for the Habs this year on a big way.  Eberle could rebound and hit 70-points again.

 

What about Marleau?  Seems will be first line with Matthews.  Can he keep up all year?

 

(That all for my misdirections before the draft.)

I don't feel good in the +/- of anyone you've mentioned, it's a stretch for me, even with Radulov.

Nothing I hate more than 50 point guys at -8.

"Hitch is back, Nill with all of these amazing deals"...yada yada yada...

I am not in the buying category with Dallas, maybe I'm wrong, oh well.

I know I thought, at the time, "Nice grab Peeps" with Bennett. If that's any solace?

What's funny is Bennett will have a break out year and we'll all have left him on FA too long, lol.