The Feaster/weisbrod Era

[rickross]

With the flashes of promise the Flames propects have shown and with Burke now running the show, how much credit do the Flames owe to Feaster and Weisbrod? Gaudreau, Gillies, Monahan, Wotherspoon to name a few are some solid additions to the core. Burke will obviously get all the glory once they return to playoff contention but how much of that do we really owe to Feaster and Weisbrod? They brought in guys like Reto Berra and Kris Russell..we all know what became of Berra but that 2nd Rounder is quite telling. He recently signed a 3 yr extension with Berra without ever starting 1 game for them. It might be the trade that comes back to haunt us, but can't be mad with how Ortio has shown up!

All in all, I think Feaster did get more of a negative rap than deserved, yes he really flubbed some deals..(direct eye contact with O'reilly!) but our cupboards are for once no longer barren! For whatever reason I almost wished Burke kept Weisbrod around as I think he might have had some influence on a number of those prospect decisions..could be wrong but think they've turned around a once laughable stable of projects. 

[senor_incendiarse]

The prospect group under that regime has improved on the surface, but were still only looking at one that has made a significant impact so far.  My thoughts when the Jankowski pick was made was that Feaster wouldn't be around to take the credit if he lives up to his billing, or take blame if he busts, and I was right.  If Janko, Johnny, Sven and others could all live up to potential and if so then sure Feaster deserves some credit, but not many people give Button any credit for the '04 run despite one of his signings being the eliminator.  It's just the nature of some fans, either a god or a bum.  I think Feaster did get this team in the right direction, it just happened 2 years too late and with too much controversy, and the obvious feeling was that he wasn't the right guy to continue in a positive direction.  

[andymo]

I think there are definitely things for Feaster to take credit for. The Stempniak deal, Cammalleri/Ramo for Bourque and  a general improvement in drafting, Janko aside (TBC...!) The problem is he was always liable to make colossal errors. Whatever the justification for any obscurity in the O'Reilly loophole, it left us horribly exposed. His reckless overselling of the likes of Knight and Baertschi, along with his increasingly meaningless soundbites and slogans were all just symptoms of him recklessly overselling himself. He allowed himself to become a buffoon. He even managed to incur the wrath of Chiarelli by insisting Bartowski be signed to a one year deal prior to the imminent deal for Iginla which subsequently collapsed! So yes, I think Feaster us due some credit, but he was just far too accident-prone. I have the feeling if he had hung on to the job another year, his legacy may have been far messier.

[swtrooper]

Speaking of his recklessness, lets not forget about the whole Brad Richards thing. He signed for 9yrs /$58 mil with the Rangers and we reportedly offered him more but he didn't want to come here. Imagine what a mess that would be in a rebuild.

[andymo]

Speaking of his recklessness, lets not forget about the whole Brad Richards thing. He signed for 9yrs /$58 mil with the Rangers and we reportedly offered him more but he didn't want to come here. Imagine what a mess that would be in a rebuild.

Good point, Exactly the kind of deal Burke needs to avoid hard.

[rickross]

Good points! Almost forgot about the Brad Richards running, if anything he did at least improve our overall drafting (I actually have more faith in Flames scouting brass now) and The Heat are finally a competitive farm team. Some good pieces in place and you're all right, we'll have to see what becomes of Sven, Gaudreau, Gillies and Janko to know the true impact of Feaster and co. I will give some credit to Feaster for bringing in Bob Hartley, there is no denying there is no quit in this team. I have A LOT of Oiler friends and they all wish their team played with the same work ethic and heart the Flames have shown throughout the year. They all acknowledge they have some elite skill but not enough heart and look how painful a "rebuild'' its been for them! 

[conundrumed]

It's difficult to give them a passing grade.

When you are not a playoff team, stocking the prospects cupboard shouldn't be an issue. He really did nothing to improve the big club during his tenure.

The drafting of Jankowski was really an eye roller. One of the worst teams in the league and use a 1st on a 5-6 year project? Couple that with moves with the big club, stalking the KHL for fixes for our big club, and really over-selling the quality of College hockey in drafting.

I beg all to temper the Gaudreau enthusiasm. He won't be doing what he's doing in college hockey. Hobey Baker winner's list isn't exactly a boatload of high end hockey players.

Good draft last year? Yup. Agree with Burke, we won the draft. Because the selections were safe CHL players, picked where they should be picked.

She ain't rocket surgery, keep it simple to what works.

Feaster always seemed to pretend some real insight and cunning. But really, he just isn't a hockey guy at the high levels.

His firing was on the day after Boston visited Calgary, and I seriously don't think that was a coincidence.

 

And do we really need to look at his his approach to Kiprusoff's pending retirement? What was it, "it's okay, we've got Ramo".

NHL-quality tenders were available, we were never even hinted in the running.

[jjgallow]

When we think of good things that Feaster did, we think of the 2011 NHL draft, basically.  Gaudreau, Granlund, Beartschi, etc.

 

First thing to consider:  Weisbrod was not part of the 2011 draft.  He was hired after.  Weisbrod is pure Jankowski.  And that is all.

 

 

So the question is....do we give Feaster credit for the 2011 draft?

 

We give Feaster credit for staying out of the way.

 

The Scouting staff was Sutter-designed, and Feaster had not changed it in any way.

 

It was one of the very few drafts where the GM did not interfere with the Scouting staff's decisions.

 

And it will likely turn out to be our best drafts in the last decade.

 

In 2012, Feaster had unleashed Weisbrod, and the two of them combined for what will probably turn out to be one of our Very worst draft years.  Which, quite frankly, is hard to do, considering some of our other years.

 

My opinions on this draft year are, obviously, premature.  But let me put it this way:

 

It takes a long time to confirm a great draft year.   It doesn't take nearly as long to confirm a bad one.

 

 

In 2013, you can either give Feaster credit for the obvious pick of Monahan, or you can associate him with the complete implosion of the team which led to that pick.

 

You can give him credit for picking Poirier and Klimchuk, or you can refer to the Iginla Fiasco, which led to us picking Poirier WAY out of turn.    2013 is too early to judge.   But when I see players being picked way out of turn, no matter how many points they rack up in the QMJHL, I have concerns.

 

So many backfires.  Iginla, Richards, O'Reilly, Erixon, quite frankly Kipper....the list goes on.  

 

We see a massive supporting cast (more than we can handle, all left wingers), but when it comes down to the real building blocks, we have very little.  Great development of 3rd-liners.  Extremely poor development of Baertschi's. 

 

Most of our supporting cast....even now, was actually drafted by Sutter.

 

It is too early to judge.  And I see no reasons yet to give praise.

[phoenix66]

I make no excuses for feaster, he was the architect of his own demise, but, whether that was because he manned the ship into the titanic, or because he allowed himself to be the public face of a direction he disagreed with we may never know.

My point is this, at the time he took over and up to the start of the rebuild we were "a veteran team, just a piece or 2 not just from the playoffs but a serious contender once we got in"..obviously not true, but that was the course regardless.

For a team in that position, with what somebody felt was the best defense corp in the league, in dire need of a franchise center, , it made total sense to draft a project who had the tools to be great one day and groom him..over say, an Olli Maata. We had the luxury of time, somebody thought. My personal belief is that management directed him to steer that course. The fact he allowed himself to publicly drive a sinking ship is on his own shoulders

Heard a very telling interview with Brian Sutter the other day. He talked about how we yad a deal done for Conroy one year earlier that would have cost us way less than it cost us the next year (stillman) and they also felt it would push us into the playoffs that year..but ownership killed it over $, so there is a history there of ownership and Ken king driving the team from the backseat.

This is what excited me so much when Burke was hired. Because you KNOW hes the man. Hes no pawn..its simply for once a hockey mind is in control. King gave that control to Sutter too..but he wasnt a gm..he was a good coach. Period.

Ive said before and ill repeat it, feasters downfall wasnt so much what he did, but how he did it..

He bungled the iggy trade

Oreilly could have been a disaster

He oversold Sven way too early

Etc..

But he also did good things, as Burke put it, he "shovelled the driveway"

He cleared out immovable contracts

He left the farm in better shape than Sutter left it

He made the right choice hiring Hartley

Etc..

So I believe the legacy of feaster is that he did the dirty work as a suicide bomber to clear the path for someone that knows what they are doing to rebuild this team

[mike_jones]

In 2012, Feaster had unleashed Weisbrod, and the two of them combined for what will probably turn out to be one of our Very worst draft years.  Which, quite frankly, is hard to do, considering some of our other years.

 

My opinions on this draft year are, obviously, premature.  But let me put it this way:

 

It takes a long time to confirm a great draft year.   It doesn't take nearly as long to confirm a bad one.

 

 

This part of your post appalls me.  Are you already writing off the 2012 draft?  Wouldn't that be a little soon?  Weren't you so in love with Coda Gordon for a while?  Jon Gillies isn't a quality prospect?  Patrick Sieloff doesn't have any promise?  Jankowski might only ever be as good as a Joe Colborne, whom many scouts project him to be, but Colborne is looking pretty good these days, and Jankowski hasn't been doing awful.  He was the 1st star of the game this past Friday...

 

One of my favorite picks of that draft was Kulak, mostly for his offensive upside, but Culkin, I wouldn't throw away just yet either.

 

I think it's just a tad early to say 2012 was one of the Flames worst draft years ever JJ?. Lmao!  Most of them boys, you paraded about like they were the "next big thing" when the Flames drafted them.

 

Hypocrite much?

[senor_incendiarse]

Speaking of his recklessness, lets not forget about the whole Brad Richards thing. He signed for 9yrs /$58 mil with the Rangers and we reportedly offered him more but he didn't want to come here. Imagine what a mess that would be in a rebuild.

Not sure why so critical of this, sure knowing what he has been lately would make it look pretty stupid, but fact is he was the best ufa centre to hit the market in a long time.  Go back to 2011 and this forum was littered with Richards suggestions and trade proposals.  The majority of fans wanted him badly.  It didn't work out, but its not like Feaster was the only one, I believe Burke and Lombardi threw more money short term his way, does that make them idiots?  What about the guy who actually did get him, the same guy who also did that to Gomez, Drury, Redden, Holik.  Its the nature of the beast with free agency, for every bust there is a gm who looks like an idiot for signing that player, but also a collection of gm's who either also tried for the same terms or aided in driving up that players price tag

[andymo]

The Richards deal was always a bad deal. He will be on a 6.7m cap hit til he's 40 and we reportedly offered more. Yes, there was some excitement on these boards but there were plenty urging caution. At that time we were in a cap hole and way more than 'a centre for Iggy' away from success. If he had signed here it would have just prelonged the illusion we were still a contender whilst making it a lot more difficult to break it down. That contract will take some shifting and if it was ours we would be in a lot worse shape going forward. That was always going to be the case.

[conundrumed]

You'll never find positive words from me here during the attempt to get Richards. The whole thing reeked to me of Feaster reliving past glories. He isn't a one player solves everything player. I always felt he was a player that needs very good support players.

When tbay couldn't re-sign all 3, it was Richards they parted with, and they also had a peak form Khabibulin, great support from Stillman etc.

I agree with andymo, and not in hindsight either. Giving Richards a blank cheque as Feaster was pretty much ready to do would have been a massive mistake as our issues were building over all areas.

The impassioned were driving that Iggy has never had an elite C, but to overkill the focus on that, with this FA deal would have landed us here anyways, with bigger problems, imho.

 

Feaster really strove to leave his mark on this team and I'm happy his biggest ventures came up short. He wasn't here for a rebuild, but the writing was on the wall.

He should have just stepped down when it was obviously a rebuild situation yet he simply refused to defy ownership to the facts.

I've stated several times I don't like Burke, but I'm happy he's here. He WILL defy ownership if he thinks he's right. He has a sense of obligation to the team that Feaster just seemed to mock the team, rather than stand up for his troops.

It intones a real negative environment in the locker room.

When Burke came here, his presser near brought me to tears when he insisted, to paraphrase, this market is one of the best in all of hockey, I expect the players to wear the jersey with pride, I expect them to be a part of the community, if anyone fails to hold up that end of the bargain, they can go play somewhere else, I don't care who it is. If they don't want to do that, they're gone, they won't play for Calgary.

FWD to now, who here isn't extremely proud of our team this year? The whole league is taking notice. Grapes talked about it on coach's corner, I think in a way countering Healy being an idiot to the Flames.

They're playing their hearts out for the org,

Feaster instilled none of that. Did his tune change, sure. But the "fool me once" nonsense he spouted on national tv? How are you showing your troops you have their back when they're down? How are you supporting them?

By insulting them further. It's ludicrous.

[jjgallow]

This part of your post appalls me.  Are you already writing off the 2012 draft?  Wouldn't that be a little soon?  

 

Please kindly read my post, which you actually quoted, and you will get your answer:

 

"My opinions on this draft year are, obviously, premature."

 

 

I think it's just a tad early to say 2012 was one of the Flames worst draft years ever JJ?. Lmao!  Most of them boys, you paraded about like they were the "next big thing" when the Flames drafted them.

 

Hypocrite much?

 

Even if I disagree with a draft, I always have and always will support our prospects.  I'll even get excited.

 

From the moment Jankowski was drafted, I disagreed, and I have stated many times that, in my belief, Coda Gordon was the Only player drafted as BPA in 2012.  Even so, as a 6th rounder, his chances were never great.  And they are still not great.  I predicted that Coda Gordon would become a great WHLer.   I feel this came true, but it took much longer than I'd hoped/dreamed.  At this stage we can hope that he might develop into an NHL support role, maybe, if he continues to defy the odds.  But that will have little or no bearing on how 2012's draft will be judged.

 

I continue to support Jankowski, and I hope he becomes an NHLer.  I hope he proves us BPA trolls wrong.   These are early days.

 

But it's not looking good.   I'm not writing them off, but even if they Were shooting the lights out Johnny Hockey style....they'd still be a long way from being a success.

 

I'm not saying we should give up on them.  But I'm glad we gave up on the people who drafted them.

 

 

p.s....on Colborne.....he is a 7-goal scorer and basically a support-role player who shows glimpses that he may have at one time been capable of more had his development gone differently.  Again, read my post.  I've stated many times that Feaster has succeeded with the supporting cast.  But only through failing at putting a core in place.

 

On Sielioff:  His ceiling is a supportive role player in the NHL.  Nice, but a dime a dozen in the big picture.  This was basically a KNOWN assessment at the time of the draft.  For the kind of role that Sielioff is going to be in, to be completely honest, we could have used more size.  I'm not saying it was the worst pick ever.  But again...I would have prefered some of the defensemen available in the first round.  Like Olli Maatta.   And despite what Feaster will tell you, Jankowski, if they had to have him, likely could have been available with the Sielioff pick. 

 

On Gillies:   He is the one and only hope for the 2012 draft.  And he has not been the same since the world juniors.  he has tapered off.   We will just have to give him time and see.   But he has somewhat regressed from last year.  Or, at very least, not improved like many hoped he would.   I don't blame Feaster as much for this pick....goalies are a crapshoot, he took a chance with a late-round pick.    I do blame Feaster for blowing the first 2 rounds of the draft, and leaving us in a situation where the entire draft may end up riding on Gillies.

[mike_jones]

Please kindly read my post, which you actually quoted, and you will get your answer:

 

"My opinions on this draft year are, obviously, premature."

 

 

 

Even if I disagree with a draft, I always have and always will support our prospects.  I'll even get excited.

 

From the moment Jankowski was drafted, I disagreed, and I have stated many times that, in my belief, Coda Gordon was the Only player drafted as BPA in 2012.  Even so, as a 6th rounder, his chances were never great.  And they are still not great.  I predicted that Coda Gordon would become a great WHLer.   I feel this came true, but it took much longer than I'd hoped/dreamed.  At this stage we can hope that he might develop into an NHL support role, maybe, if he continues to defy the odds.  But that will have little or no bearing on how 2012's draft will be judged.

 

I continue to support Jankowski, and I hope he becomes an NHLer.  I hope he proves us BPA trolls wrong.   These are early days.

 

But it's not looking good.   I'm not writing them off, but even if they Were shooting the lights out Johnny Hockey style....they'd still be a long way from being a success.

 

I'm not saying we should give up on them.  But I'm glad we gave up on the people who drafted them.

 

 

p.s....on Colborne.....he is a 7-goal scorer and basically a support-role player who shows glimpses that he may have at one time been capable of more had his development gone differently.  Again, read my post.  I've stated many times that Feaster has succeeded with the supporting cast.  But only through failing at putting a core in place.

 

On Sielioff:  His ceiling is a supportive role player in the NHL.  Nice, but a dime a dozen in the big picture.  This was basically a KNOWN assessment at the time of the draft.  For the kind of role that Sielioff is going to be in, to be completely honest, we could have used more size.  I'm not saying it was the worst pick ever.  But again...I would have prefered some of the defensemen available in the first round.  Like Olli Maatta.   And despite what Feaster will tell you, Jankowski, if they had to have him, likely could have been available with the Sielioff pick. 

 

On Gillies:   He is the one and only hope for the 2012 draft.  And he has not been the same since the world juniors.  he has tapered off.   We will just have to give him time and see.   But he has somewhat regressed from last year.  Or, at very least, not improved like many hoped he would.   I don't blame Feaster as much for this pick....goalies are a crapshoot, he took a chance with a late-round pick.    I do blame Feaster for blowing the first 2 rounds of the draft, and leaving us in a situation where the entire draft may end up riding on Gillies.

 

 

 

 

You do have to keep in mind that Janko and Sieloff were our 1st round pick.  There was no chance Janko was going to be available in the 2nd round as NJ, LA, and MTL, all were pursuing him.

 

Now maybe Jankowski hasn't been lighting it up in the NCAA but he's been playing the 3rd line a lot on Providence.  Sometimes it's also more about numbers in developing one's game, but to his credit, he does have 8 points in his last 10 GP (3G, 5A), including 2 game winners, and a game winning assist.  But needless to say he is still a few years away.

 

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To Colborne's credit, he does have 10 points, in his last 13 GP.  (4G, 6A)  He has really stepped up the offense on the wing and isn't a liability defensively, although, I would like to see him throw his weight around more, but his hands and skating are money for such a big guy.  I only see him getting better.

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As for Gillies, where is this regression you speak of since the WJC?????  

 

Last year, his number were 0.931 SV% with a 2.08 GAA.

This year, his numbers are  0.930 SV% with a 2.17 GAA

 

He is 2.00 GAA in his last 10 GP with a 0.936 SV%.

 

He is tied for 5th overall in the entire NCAA for SV% this season.

 

I'm sorry, I don't see the regression, you speak of.

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Can't say much about Sieloff as he has been injured all season.  But he is a solid stay at home defenseman.  His NHL comparable would be a guy like Robyn Regehr.  I didn't realize Regehr was a dime a dozen.  But THAT would be his ceiling.  Also of note, is that he WAS the BPA, when he was drafted in the 2nd round.

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Moving on the Brett Kulak.  4th round pick.  Finished the WHL season tied for 7th among defensemen with 60 points in 69 GP.  Not too shabby.

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Ryan Culkin, 5th round pick.  Finished off the QMJHL season 6th among defenders in the QMJHL.  Once again, not to shabby.

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You already know about Gordon being a 6th round pick.

 

 

 

So, in summary, I'd say, we are a LONG ways away, from saying the 2012 draft was one of the worst in Flames history.  But your opinion is your opinion, just don't turn back on it in a few years like you usually do.  

[jjgallow]

So, in summary, I'd say, we are a LONG ways away, from saying the 2012 draft was one of the worst in Flames history.  But your opinion is your opinion, just don't turn back on it in a few years like you usually do.  

 

Some call it "admitting that you're wrong".

 

It's mandatory when having any opinion at all on prospects, and I actually don't have to do it that often.

 

Congrats to you if you've never had to do this.  Obviously this means you've never been wrong.

 

 

p.s...on Brett Kulak...that would be amazing if it happened the previous season.  But as an over-ager....that projects him into a supporting role at best.  To have a chance, as an over-ager, at being a part of the Flames core, he'd have to be 1st overall in that category.  And it would still be very doubtfull.  Again, he's too small for the role if we want to be a contender.

 

On Ryan Kulkin....again, an over-ager...in the qmhl...sure, the Flames saw something but it wasn't something that's ever gonig to help them win a cup

[rickross]

Not all our prospects are Nhl caliber but we have A LOT more potential now then we did 3-4 years ago. It's still early to truly grade draft classes, but I think the Flames have drafted much better the last few years. Colbourne has been great! Would really maximize his return if he didn't reach that 10 Goal mark..but who's countin'? It will be interesting to see how Burke moves at this years draft, those 2 second and 3rd Rd picks are good leverage. Hopefully this doesn't turn into a rush job by an impatient Burke but you have to like how they've been playing of late! 

[cross16]

Some call it "admitting that you're wrong".

 

It's mandatory when having any opinion at all on prospects, and I actually don't have to do it that often.

 

Congrats to you if you've never had to do this.  Obviously this means you've never been wrong.

 

 

p.s...on Brett Kulak...that would be amazing if it happened the previous season.  But as an over-ager....that projects him into a supporting role at best.  To have a chance, as an over-ager, at being a part of the Flames core, he'd have to be 1st overall in that category.  And it would still be very doubtfull.  Again, he's too small for the role if we want to be a contender.

 

On Ryan Kulkin....again, an over-ager...in the qmhl...sure, the Flames saw something but it wasn't something that's ever gonig to help them win a cup

You are not an over-ager until you play in your 20s in junior. Both culkin and kulak could play one more year as an "over-ager". Tons of dman with culkins and kulaks skill and development still make the NHL. Not saying they will but writing then off based on stats in their 19 year old year is getting way ahead of yourself.

[lordxan]

Generally speaking, Feaster did a real good job, had some blunders but every GM, including the redounded Burke.  While I agree with Burke's assessment that Feaster did a great job clearing the driveway, I do believe he was premature in firing both Feaster and more so Weisbrod.  I believe both were fine to stay up till the end of this years draft.  I fully pin the firings, or at least the timings on Burke's ego, 100% he wanted one last crack at the GM job and he took it. 

 

Having said this, was Feaster, and to a lesser degree, Weisbrod, due to go?  Yes absolutely, set a new image of the club with the other GMs in the NHL is just smart business, just could have and should have waited to the end of the entry draft.  The only slight counter argument to this would be, by Firing the current GM you send a no BS message to your players, play to win.  However, this is and to a lesser degree prior to trade deadline, a young team, that message was clear and set out from the start of the season.  The only real question mark had Feaster been here for the trade deadline, is weather he would have moved Stempy or Berra at all and would he have pulled the trigger on Cammy, I believe he would have and done so before the deadline day.

 

The failure to move Cammy, for me is a strike one on Burke.  I believe Burke gambled on the price going up after the "log jam" few players were moved, he opted to hold vice fold early.  Some times this gamble works out but more often than not they don't, and in this case we have a high risk of loosing Cammy for nothing, unless Burke some how swings a deal for short term negotiation rights on Cammy.  Things is, these are a 3rd round pick at best, for Cammy you are looking at probably a 4th or 5th, which, I'm pretty sure, giving Stempy got a 3rd, you would have got for Cammy at or more so prior to the deadline this year. So strike one Burke, to me this looks like you fired Feaster for ego and nothing more, or at least timing wise it dose.  

 

As for Weisbrod, I get it, he was moved to allow the new GM set his team, though there was no real need to do so, I'd have let the new GM evaluate the situation and make moves if he felt the need to do so.  However, there may have been some questionable choices  in the background we were not aware of, heck it's possible Weisbrod was a loose nut in the wheel house not fitting in with the others in the scouting team, if so good move on Burke's part.  This move I'm 50/50 on, but like I said, there could be background issues and at the end of the day it's not as big an impact as firing the GM so whatever.

[rickross]

Gotta agree with you lordxan, Burke's ego is all part of his media persona…the wild hair, face redder than a Flames jersey..unkept shirt and tie hangin' on for dear life. He actually thought he was convincing someone when he claimed he didn't want to be GM. Feaster was removed as was expected but not as swift and abrupt as Burke did it. I love the return of a 2nd Rd for Berra, hard to say if Feaster could have got the same return…he barely fared better trading Iggy and JBow! I probably would have given Feaster until the end of the year but its obvious Burke is eager to place his fingerprint ASAP on this team. It's good and bad, he's experienced but stubborn. He's respected and arrogant..but you can't argue that he hasn't been successful and thats all that matters in the end. I really hope he doesn't force feed the rebuild, hire a GM and fall back if it fails then blame the puppet GM or if this team rebuilds quickly he decides to take the glory for himself and stay on as GM?

 

Cammy not being traded was a tough position, i'd say with Cammy coming off a concussion being in a slump it really hurt his stock. I'd rather we hold on to Cammy then trade him just because its the trade deadline. He's still an asset to this team, he would have been gone had he hit this scoring streak pre Trade Deadline. Management must not have liked Feaster and Weisbrods plan if they allowed Burke to come in and wipe out whatever work they had put in. 

[swtrooper]

Not sure why so critical of this, sure knowing what he has been lately would make it look pretty stupid, but fact is he was the best ufa centre to hit the market in a long time.  Go back to 2011 and this forum was littered with Richards suggestions and trade proposals.  The majority of fans wanted him badly.  It didn't work out, but its not like Feaster was the only one, I believe Burke and Lombardi threw more money short term his way, does that make them idiots?  What about the guy who actually did get him, the same guy who also did that to Gomez, Drury, Redden, Holik.  Its the nature of the beast with free agency, for every bust there is a gm who looks like an idiot for signing that player, but also a collection of gm's who either also tried for the same terms or aided in driving up that players price tag

 Because it was a horrible deal, everybody couldn't believe the money he was demanding and just that Feaster offered him more then the Rangers did make me laugh. Good thing he didn't want to come to Calgary.

 

 Throwing that kinda money at him was a joke and everybody knew it, and yes they are idiots for doing so cause look what he's done. Not at all impressive even if he was getting half what he is. His last three seasons with the Rangers 25g 66pts, 11g 34pts, and this year a whoping 16g 46pts. Not to mention he's getting $6,666,667 until 2020.  Bottom line he was asking way too much and it now shows! Just soooooo glad we didn't acquire him.

 

One other thing I wanted to mention against Feaster is the way Kipper faded to black. All the mention of trade talks when he wanted to finish his career here after having a child but still had a year on his contract. He obviously wanted to stay and finish here but opted to retire instead, none the less through a Finnish reporter who when asked him if he would accept a trade decided he would retire instead. Pretty elbowingty way to send off the best goalie in your franchise history.

[kehatch]

Generally speaking, Feaster did a real good job, had some blunders but every GM, including the redounded Burke. While I agree with Burke's assessment that Feaster did a great job clearing the driveway, I do believe he was premature in firing both Feaster and more so Weisbrod. I believe both were fine to stay up till the end of this years draft. I fully pin the firings, or at least the timings on Burke's ego, 100% he wanted one last crack at the GM job and he took it.

Having said this, was Feaster, and to a lesser degree, Weisbrod, due to go? Yes absolutely, set a new image of the club with the other GMs in the NHL is just smart business, just could have and should have waited to the end of the entry draft. The only slight counter argument to this would be, by Firing the current GM you send a no BS message to your players, play to win. However, this is and to a lesser degree prior to trade deadline, a young team, that message was clear and set out from the start of the season. The only real question mark had Feaster been here for the trade deadline, is weather he would have moved Stempy or Berra at all and would he have pulled the trigger on Cammy, I believe he would have and done so before the deadline day.

The failure to move Cammy, for me is a strike one on Burke. I believe Burke gambled on the price going up after the "log jam" few players were moved, he opted to hold vice fold early. Some times this gamble works out but more often than not they don't, and in this case we have a high risk of loosing Cammy for nothing, unless Burke some how swings a deal for short term negotiation rights on Cammy. Things is, these are a 3rd round pick at best, for Cammy you are looking at probably a 4th or 5th, which, I'm pretty sure, giving Stempy got a 3rd, you would have got for Cammy at or more so prior to the deadline this year. So strike one Burke, to me this looks like you fired Feaster for ego and nothing more, or at least timing wise it dose.

As for Weisbrod, I get it, he was moved to allow the new GM set his team, though there was no real need to do so, I'd have let the new GM evaluate the situation and make moves if he felt the need to do so. However, there may have been some questionable choices in the background we were not aware of, heck it's possible Weisbrod was a loose nut in the wheel house not fitting in with the others in the scouting team, if so good move on Burke's part. This move I'm 50/50 on, but like I said, there could be background issues and at the end of the day it's not as big an impact as firing the GM so whatever.

Feaster fails to get full value for Iginla and Bouwmeester, creates an entitlement environment for prospects like Baertschi, flubs the 2012 draft to try and prove he is smarter than everyone, and almost loses Monahan on a poorly researched offer sheet (not to mention promises us the playoffs while talking about intellectual honesty) and he did a good job?

Burke fails to get a third round pick for Cammalleri and it is strike one (after getting a great return on his other moves)?

I, er, disagree! ;-)

[jjgallow]

You are not an over-ager until you play in your 20s in junior. Both culkin and kulak could play one more year as an "over-ager". Tons of dman with culkins and kulaks skill and development still make the NHL. Not saying they will but writing then off based on stats in their 19 year old year is getting way ahead of yourself.

 

Firstly....I think I'm confused on this, as they're both 20.  They have to start the year as 20 then, and that season is their "overage" year?  I've just always looked at players who spent more than one year after their draft year in junior as overaged.

 

Secondly....I am certainly not dismissing them as having NHL potential.   In a supporting role.   In terms of having a significant core role with the team....I would say that the window is closing.  There is always a chance, but there are just too many other fantastic prospects out there.

Feaster fails to get full value for Iginla and Bouwmeester, creates an entitlement environment for prospects like Baertschi, flubs the 2012 draft to try and prove he is smarter than everyone, and almost loses Monahan on a poorly researched offer sheet (not to mention promises us the playoffs while talking about intellectual honesty) and he did a good job?

 

Well said.  Very well said.

 

Burke fails to get a third round pick for Cammalleri and it is strike one (after getting a great return on his other moves)?

I, er, disagree! ;-)

 

I still give Burke a strike one for this.  Feaster has Really lowered our GM expectations.   It may not be Feaster bad, but it was not great.

[cross16]

Firstly....I think I'm confused on this, as they're both 20. They have to start the year as 20 then, and that season is their "overage" year? I've just always looked at players who spent more than one year after their draft year in junior as overaged.

Secondly....I am certainly not dismissing them as having NHL potential. In a supporting role. In terms of having a significant core role with the team....I would say that the window is closing. There is always a chance, but there are just too many other fantastic prospects out there.

Most players play 2 years of junior after being drafted and the third is the over-age year. There is actually a rule that limits the amount of over-angers a junior team can have thus the term and yes it nears they start the season at 20. Playing 2 years of junior after a draft year is typical of most prospects outside first rounders.thats wht I felt you are being unfair because IMO kulak and culkin have progressed in a nice and linear fashion like you want to see from guys drafted when they were

[DirtyDeeds]

Generally speaking, Feaster did a real good job, had some blunders but every GM, including the redounded Burke.  While I agree with Burke's assessment that Feaster did a great job clearing the driveway, I do believe he was premature in firing both Feaster and more so Weisbrod.  I believe both were fine to stay up till the end of this years draft.  I fully pin the firings, or at least the timings on Burke's ego, 100% he wanted one last crack at the GM job and he took it. 

 

Having said this, was Feaster, and to a lesser degree, Weisbrod, due to go?  Yes absolutely, set a new image of the club with the other GMs in the NHL is just smart business, just could have and should have waited to the end of the entry draft.  The only slight counter argument to this would be, by Firing the current GM you send a no BS message to your players, play to win.  However, this is and to a lesser degree prior to trade deadline, a young team, that message was clear and set out from the start of the season.  The only real question mark had Feaster been here for the trade deadline, is weather he would have moved Stempy or Berra at all and would he have pulled the trigger on Cammy, I believe he would have and done so before the deadline day.

 

The failure to move Cammy, for me is a strike one on Burke.  I believe Burke gambled on the price going up after the "log jam" few players were moved, he opted to hold vice fold early.  Some times this gamble works out but more often than not they don't, and in this case we have a high risk of loosing Cammy for nothing, unless Burke some how swings a deal for short term negotiation rights on Cammy.  Things is, these are a 3rd round pick at best, for Cammy you are looking at probably a 4th or 5th, which, I'm pretty sure, giving Stempy got a 3rd, you would have got for Cammy at or more so prior to the deadline this year. So strike one Burke, to me this looks like you fired Feaster for ego and nothing more, or at least timing wise it dose.  

 

As for Weisbrod, I get it, he was moved to allow the new GM set his team, though there was no real need to do so, I'd have let the new GM evaluate the situation and make moves if he felt the need to do so.  However, there may have been some questionable choices  in the background we were not aware of, heck it's possible Weisbrod was a loose nut in the wheel house not fitting in with the others in the scouting team, if so good move on Burke's part.  This move I'm 50/50 on, but like I said, there could be background issues and at the end of the day it's not as big an impact as firing the GM so whatever.

You make an awful lot of assumptions. Like you already give one strike against BB for not trading Cammy and waiting too long. Exactly what deal did he pass up on to wait on a better offer? I don't remember any actual offers being discussed and passed on.

 

In one breath you say Feaster did a good job, but the consensus around here is he did not get full value in his trades. Yet you want to condemn BB for waiting and attempting to get the best value..

 

If you do your study and find that Feaster was not the guy to go forward for the Flames, then you can't keep him until the draft. How can you do interviews with him still around??? Are you proposing that he let things slide for 6 + months to fire Feaster? Hell of a way to run a company.

 

 

Weisbrod is a tough one to decide on. We don't really know much about his input. I think he sort of had some of the more final say on the drafts and trades put forth on Feasters plate. We can surmise that most of the draft & deals Feaster made that included college players he likely had some big input on because that was his specialty before he came to us.