flames-fan-911 Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 Islanders have won. If the Flames don't win tonight, we draft 4th (assuming no changes due to lottery). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kehatch Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 I am still cheering for a win. If we win we have more wins and the same number of points as the Canucks. Pride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andymo Posted April 14, 2014 Report Share Posted April 14, 2014 I am still cheering for a win. If we win we have more wins and the same number of points as the Canucks. Pride. Alas, we are 4 points behind them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kehatch Posted April 14, 2014 Report Share Posted April 14, 2014 Alas, we are 4 points behind them... Ya. I don't know why I thought we were two behind. Either way, I can't cheer for a loss. Especially against the Canucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyerfan52 Posted April 14, 2014 Report Share Posted April 14, 2014 I am still cheering for a win. Pride. Unfortunately some on this board don't understand that word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FF12 Posted April 14, 2014 Report Share Posted April 14, 2014 Unfortunately some on this board don't understand that word. Yes, but there is also a saying that you shouldn't let your ego get in the way of what is most important. What is most important is for the Flames to get better so they can at least compete again. It's true that you should take pride in what you do, but sometimes you have to do what is smart and most beneficial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulstad Posted April 14, 2014 Report Share Posted April 14, 2014 Yes, but there is also a saying that you shouldn't let your ego get in the way of what is most important. What is most important is for the Flames to get better so they can at least compete again. It's true that you should take pride in what you do, but sometimes you have to do what is smart and most beneficial. ...and that's where the debate starts from: which is more beneficial...team pride or better draft position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted April 14, 2014 Report Share Posted April 14, 2014 Yes, but there is also a saying that you shouldn't let your ego get in the way of what is most important. What is most important is for the Flames to get better so they can at least compete again. It's true that you should take pride in what you do, but sometimes you have to do what is smart and most beneficial. Good to see that you think that losing for a better draft pick(1 pick difference that is) is more important than winning. With that in mind, missing the playoffs by one win is better because you get a shot at the lottery and a better pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyerfan52 Posted April 14, 2014 Report Share Posted April 14, 2014 Yes, but there is also a saying that you shouldn't let your ego get in the way of what is most important. What is most important is for the Flames to get better so they can at least compete again. It's true that you should take pride in what you do, but sometimes you have to do what is smart and most beneficial. So sluffing it off is OK in certain circumstances? Who decides when those times are? ****************************************** It's like not really being a prostitute but really wanting a pair of expensive shoes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucid_Flame91 Posted April 14, 2014 Report Share Posted April 14, 2014 Well i'm happy with today, Grats to gaudreau on his first goal! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
senor_incendiarse Posted April 14, 2014 Report Share Posted April 14, 2014 ...and that's where the debate starts from: which is more beneficial...team pride or better draft position. The real benefit is the 2.6% increase in the odds of getting the #1, thats all that excites me about our standing. The 4 - 6 range doesn't overly excite me to the point that I desperately want one over anyone else. I guess though now we are looking at a pick no later than 5th so our highest pick ever. I'm not the one making the pick so I really don't get too excited about positioning unless its #1 and its a generational talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flames-fan-911 Posted April 14, 2014 Report Share Posted April 14, 2014 Good to see that you think that losing for a better draft pick(1 pick difference that is) is more important than winning. With that in mind, missing the playoffs by one win is better because you get a shot at the lottery and a better pick. I think you guys need to stop acting like our team would or would not deliberately lose to draft higher. The Flames showed no signs throughout the year of ever intentionally tanking. At the end of the day, one of you sees a sliver lining if we happen to lose the final game to Vancouver (the higher draft position), and the other sees the benefit of winning the one game. In the end I'm inclined to say losing that final game means nothing in the grand scheme of the season or the current roster's development, but it does mean getting to select the top prospect of our choice, opposed to who is left for us at #5 (as there are five top prospects). We finished where we did, now we can embrace the higher pick. Make it smart, then continue to build a culture of effort, hard work, and introduce the new prospect to that mentality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsp393 Posted April 14, 2014 Report Share Posted April 14, 2014 I think you guys need to stop acting like our team would or would not deliberately lose to draft higher. The Flames showed no signs throughout the year of ever intentionally tanking. At the end of the day, one of you sees a sliver lining if we happen to lose the final game to Vancouver (the higher draft position), and the other sees the benefit of winning the one game. In the end I'm inclined to say losing that final game means nothing in the grand scheme of the season or the current roster's development, but it does mean getting to select the top prospect of our choice, opposed to who is left for us at #5 (as there are five top prospects). We finished where we did, now we can embrace the higher pick. Make it smart, then continue to build a culture of effort, hard work, and introduce the new prospect to that mentality. Ill bet money the players themselves probably realized what a loss tonight wouldve meant, that said aside from glen gio huds stajan everyone out there tonight is going to take advantage of this as a prr training camp audition to try impress bb and bh. While im sure the silver was brought up after the game by a few in the locker room, its doubtful any of these guys even considered "calling it in tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenny76 Posted April 14, 2014 Report Share Posted April 14, 2014 Through out history when players cheat it's for personal gain, not Team gain. Players don't care about draft picks. I find it really sad some people support losing no matter what gain may be had. I teach my kids win or lose they owe it to themselves & their team mates to try their very best. I can only hope that if the kids of those who cheer for or support losing play sports they have a great coach to mentor them about fair play & sportsmanship & about respect! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted April 15, 2014 Report Share Posted April 15, 2014 Through out history when players cheat it's for personal gain, not Team gain. Players don't care about draft picks. I find it really sad some people support losing no matter what gain may be had. I teach my kids win or lose they owe it to themselves & their team mates to try their very best. I can only hope that if the kids of those who cheer for or support losing play sports they have a great coach to mentor them about fair play & sportsmanship & about respect! Personally I loved Burkes comment today that basically said if karma works then we should win the lottery tomorrow because"if there was one team that wasn't playing for picks it was us" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s4xon Posted May 29, 2014 Report Share Posted May 29, 2014 You don't want the Flames to trade down but you want them to win down the stretch when the playoffs are out of reach? Your argument is like alchemy, trying to turn dirt into gold.... The team picks where they end up, and where they end up is the result of them playing their tails off even if they are out of the playoffs. That mentality should never leave the dressing room, the bench, nor the front office. Ever. Trading down in the draft is a whole other argument, and is an annoyance to most as it hasn't benefited this team over the last decade. Quit trying to find vessels for your tanking argument to be acceptable to the masses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrippinVdUb Posted May 29, 2014 Report Share Posted May 29, 2014 Your argument is like alchemy, trying to turn dirt into gold.... The team picks where they end up, and where they end up is the result of them playing their tails off even if they are out of the playoffs. That mentality should never leave the dressing room, the bench, nor the front office. Ever. Trading down in the draft is a whole other argument, and is an annoyance to most as it hasn't benefited this team over the last decade. Quit trying to find vessels for your tanking argument to be acceptable to the masses. He's been blowing that horn since the end of last season lol... Completely agree with what you say, you get paid to play and leave it all on the ice every game, if you dont put 100% into every shift I dont want you wearing the flaming C, end of argument. The only thing tanking does for sure is solidify a loosing environment where its impossible to bring in outside talent, and your team never brings that do or die attitude! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carty Posted May 29, 2014 Report Share Posted May 29, 2014 He's been blowing that horn since the end of last season lol... Actually it started even before then... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted May 29, 2014 Report Share Posted May 29, 2014 Trading down in the draft is a whole other argument, and is an annoyance to most as it hasn't benefited this team over the last decade. But you would trade away Draisaitl for the Flames to have won 5 more meaningless games when the playoffs are all but out of reach. I know I wouldn't. I'd rather have Draisaitl for 15-years in a Flames uniform than a lesser talent plus 5-wins in a non-playoff season. Or at the very least, trade down to gain additional assets that can help the Flames win in the future. Drafting lower in the standings, period (as opposed to trading down), has been an annoyance to most as it hasn't benefitted this team over the last decade. Our draft position has a direct relationship to our season results. There is no separation as you put it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted May 29, 2014 Report Share Posted May 29, 2014 I slept good every single night when the flames lost down the stretch, because I wanted the flames in this exact position, a position to draft a GREAT player at #4 OR the possibility of trading down, were in a rebuild people drafting #10 doesnt do us the same thing. I get that fans want to cheer for wins. It's how it's suppose to be. I hope one day the NHL changes the draft lottery to be a non-weighted free for all. Then, and only then, there's no gain in losing down the stretch and we can all cheer for wins every game even when the playoffs are out of reach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kehatch Posted May 30, 2014 Report Share Posted May 30, 2014 This argument has been beaten to death in multiple threads. You cheer for the team the way that you want to. Let the rest of us cheer for our team the way we want to. I, and most fans, cheer for our team to win. I, and most fans, were proud of the effort our team put forward. Cheering for losses would be a piss poor way to enjoy the sport for me and most fans. Can we either let this argument drop or at least keep it in the dedicated thread. It really saps the enjoyment from the sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wreckening Posted May 30, 2014 Report Share Posted May 30, 2014 This argument has been beaten to death in multiple threads. You cheer for the team the way that you want to. Let the rest of us cheer for our team the way we want to. I, and most fans, cheer for our team to win. I, and most fans, were proud of the effort our team put forward. Cheering for losses would be a piss poor way to enjoy the sport for me and most fans. Can we either let this argument drop or at least keep it in the dedicated thread. It really saps the enjoyment from the sport. Seconded Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s4xon Posted May 30, 2014 Report Share Posted May 30, 2014 But you would trade away Draisaitl for the Flames to have won 5 more meaningless games when the playoffs are all but out of reach. I know I wouldn't. I'd rather have Draisaitl for 15-years in a Flames uniform than a lesser talent plus 5-wins in a non-playoff season. Or at the very least, trade down to gain additional assets that can help the Flames win in the future. Drafting lower in the standings, period (as opposed to trading down), has been an annoyance to most as it hasn't benefitted this team over the last decade. Our draft position has a direct relationship to our season results. There is no separation as you put it. That's irrelevant Peeps. Essentially you are wanting the team to suck, no matter how nice you put it. Leave all the 'prizes' out of the picture with the drafting and the prospects etc. When it comes down to brass tacks, you want the Flames to suck. I take offense to that as a Flames fan to another Flames fan. It's illogical. The Flames played their bag off this year and still ended up with the 4th pick. That's what we call a win-win scenario in a rebuild. Draisaitl would be nice, but if the intention is to be 100% guaranteed a bottom 2 position, it's useless thinking. The Oilers did it 3 years in a row and their 'stars' are only glistening in their eyes. Around the league, they have no luster. What if the Flames picked 1st and went for Ritchie? You can't control it, so it's useless blowing the proverbial horn about it. So there goes your 'trading 5 wins for a prospect' argument. Draisaitl is the player I want, but no where is there a guarantee that he's going to be a game changer a few years down the road. The same with Ekblad, Bennett, Reinhart, or even Dal Colle, and especially the rest of the draft. Drafting low hasn't been an annoyance...maybe to you. But to most the fanbase, trying to win at the cost of losing year after year, without recognizing a retool or a rebuild is. Leaving guys like Iggy, and Kipper on the roster without getting a sizeable return for them in their prime is poor asset management. It's just stupid business, and has nothing to do with drafting low. All this and not one mention of trading down. Oh lookie, I guess there is a separation between the arguments. Here's one. I'll flip it back to you...you want the Flames to tank to get the best pick possible and have been evangelizing as such over the last year, but then instead of now taking the best player, you are all for trading down. Which is it? Hardworking team & healthy locker room attitude > top picks any day of the week, month, year, entire NHL history. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Let me know how Ovie has been working out for the Caps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucid_Flame91 Posted May 30, 2014 Report Share Posted May 30, 2014 Man everytime this comes up, "but look at the oilers guys, top picks do nothing" Chicago is doing something, so are other teams that had top picks together within a 2-3 year span, stop bringing up the red headed step-child of the NHL. Were in the FIRST year of a rebuild how can you NOT EXPECT top picks, I for one am with Peep's and saying were in for another bottom 5 finish before were out of this rebuild. This season I watched with the expectations of this team being a bottom 5 team, just like the entire NHL did, and guess what here we are. Meeting expectations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s4xon Posted May 30, 2014 Report Share Posted May 30, 2014 Man everytime this comes up, "but look at the oilers guys, top picks do nothing" Chicago is doing something, so are other teams that had top picks together within a 2-3 year span, stop bringing up the red headed step-child of the NHL. Were in the FIRST year of a rebuild how can you NOT EXPECT top picks, I for one am with Peep's and saying were in for another bottom 5 finish before were out of this rebuild. This season I watched with the expectations of this team being a bottom 5 team, just like the entire NHL did, and guess what here we are. Meeting expectations. What you need to realize is that it's not 1 top pick that is being discussed about the Oilers, not even 2. It's 3. A whopping total of 3 1st overall picks, and in a row to boot. You can't write those stats. The Oilers argument is a valid one. You want others? DePietro, Patrik Stefan, Erik Johnson, What's Ovi doing lately? Chris Phillips, etc etc. Those are just 1st overalls. Wait till you see the list of top 5 disappointments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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