Gio Out 6-8 Weeks

[Flyerfan52]

I seldom start thread & wasn't sure whether to put it in the trade talk area but decided on this. Please move it if I picked wrong.

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We have a better then expected start to the year but lossing Gio will hurt. Wideman is decent but our D isn't great even with a healthy Gio. We needed another top 4 before the injury so rather then spread the TOI among the rest of the cast &/or callups I'm wondering if you guys think we should invest something like a 2nd rounder & possibly 3rd for a healthy 3-4. (I remember that being the cost for Grossmann.)

 

Alternately, Ian White is still UFA so could be a cheap short term sign since he'll want to keep his name out there & play his butt off in hopes of more in the 2014-15 season.

 

Do 1? Do both?

[CastleMania]

I'd be fine with both those happening to plug some holes for a season or two. Either that, or we need to make some call ups.

[Zirakzigil]

Call up Cundari when he is healthy and see what he can do. If he doesnt play well for 2 or 3 games then sign White. The Flames need to go to their young guys first before bringing in another veteran.

[Prids]

Call up Cundari when he is healthy and see what he can do. If he doesnt play well for 2 or 3 games then sign White. The Flames need to go to their young guys first before bringing in another veteran.

 

 I agree with this. I would call up Cundari and give him a 3-5 game "tryout". Meanwhile talk with White and see what it would cost to sign him for the year. If Cundari doesn't impress in those games then we have a backup plan in White.

 

Or sign White, but I would like to see them give Cundari a chance first...

[CastleMania]

White should be signed regardless. Anyone and no one is an upgrade over butler.

[The_People1]

If wins mattered right now, then yea, let's go sign Ian White. 

 

If player development and evaluating our prospects matter more, then call up Cundari, Breen, Smith, etc.

[The_Argus]

If wins mattered right now, then yea, let's go sign Ian White. 

 

If player development and evaluating our prospects matter more, then call up Cundari, Breen, Smith, etc.

 

Even if we're focusing mainly on prospect development, I think it may still be useful to sign another guy. We want to be able to see what our prospects have, but still give them somewhat sheltered minutes. Throwing them to the wolves won't do them any favours, and running our established guys into the ground trying to fill minutes they can't handle isn't ideal either.

 

I'd be fine with signing White short term. I'd much prefer that to giving up prospects/picks in a trade (unless of course we can make a reasonable trade for a good, young defenseman, but what's the chance of that happening?)

[The_People1]

Even if we're focusing mainly on prospect development, I think it may still be useful to sign another guy. We want to be able to see what our prospects have, but still give them somewhat sheltered minutes. Throwing them to the wolves won't do them any favours, and running our established guys into the ground trying to fill minutes they can't handle isn't ideal either.

 

I'd be fine with signing White short term. I'd much prefer that to giving up prospects/picks in a trade (unless of course we can make a reasonable trade for a good, young defenseman, but what's the chance of that happening?)

 

Then run Butler into the ground.  Play him in all the big roles and use him to shelter the younger kids.  Who cares if Butler's confidence shatters.  He never had much to begin with and wasn't ever (shouldn't be) in the Flames long term plans.

[Carty]

Then run Butler into the ground.  Play him in all the big roles and use him to shelter the younger kids.  Who cares if Butler's confidence shatters.  He never had much to begin with and wasn't ever (shouldn't be) in the Flames long term plans.

 

Butler couldn't even shelter himself with a 10 ft umbrella...

 

The only way he would be beneficial for the younger players is if they were to watch Butler play as an example of what not to do...  

[Wreckening]

Huge loss on an already weak defence.  Not to mention Breen is out day to day with an abdominal strain it will certainly make this a rough go for awhile.  The injuries on D in Abby right now is in rough shape to so it limits who the Flames call up.  I think we may have no choice but to go out and find a D man like White or Liles.

[Redslinger]

What a shame.  Giordano was playing the best hockey of his career and really seemed to be thriving in the captains role.

 

I just hope that the Flames don't look for a short term fix at the expense of the future.  If they give up a 4th rounder for a decent, solid defenseman that's okay.  I don't think they should give up any more than that though.

[Flyerfan52]

If wins mattered right now, then yea, let's go sign Ian White. 

 

If player development and evaluating our prospects matter more, then call up Cundari, Breen, Smith, etc.

Shouldn't determination to win be part of the developement process? Saying 'Sorry guys but we lost our team designated captain & best defenseman so fend for yourselves because we won't lift a finger" doesn't speak of management wanting wins.

 

Wreckening mentioned a decimated D in Abby so let's destroy 2 teams rather then add a cheap fix in Ian White or a couple of picks for a player that can help a not so great D for a few years.

Especially on D the draft isn't the only way to acquire good players. Recent history saw a team tank & end up with 3 talented 1/1 picks but little to surround them with.

Unless we fill holes as required the team might as well give out "Born to Lose" shirts @ Christmas.

What a shame.  Giordano was playing the best hockey of his career and really seemed to be thriving in the captains role.

 

I just hope that the Flames don't look for a short term fix at the expense of the future.  If they give up a 4th rounder for a decent, solid defenseman that's okay.  I don't think they should give up any more than that though.

Ian White comes free (except salary).

A 4th won't get you that. Good (not great) D run a 2nd +.

[Lucid_Flame91]

The NHL.com article on gio's injury waaaaay on the bottom it says Stempniak is week to week with a broken foot aswell?

Is this true and if so why is nothing said.

[DirtyDeeds]

Sorry to hear about our injuries. I guess I have no problems picking up a D like White if he would want to return here. I don't see something like that as taking up a prospects opportunity at least right now because it does not appear we have another prospect ready/able for that opportunity.

 

I would have suggested maybe Sieloff if he was ready but he has only played 2 games since his injury and both on the Heat but that was early Oct. Has he been reinjured?

 

Gio's minutes are top 4 mins and bringing in a bottom D wouldn't help that much even moving everyone else who is healthy up.

[Lucid_Flame91]

I would have suggested maybe Sieloff if he was ready but he has only played 2 games since his injury and both on the Heat but that was early Oct. Has he been reinjured?

 

Sieloff  has been a concern of mine, he needs to be healthy for the WJC coming up.

[Redslinger]

I'm not sure that a guy like White adds much to the roster.  He's small, has a lot of holes in his game both defensively and offensively and isn't physical.  I just don't see how he makes the Flames better in the short term, even with the injuries.  The other wildcard is his attitude.  Would he be okay on a team that is expected to work hard, block shots, go in the corners and in general, be a team guy?  Maybe, but I don't know.  I haven't really seen him demonstrate any of that before but I could be wrong.  I don't know that he's a 'fit' on this roster but I suspect that he isn't.

 

Plus, there is a contract limit of 50.  I don't think the Flames are too close to that number yet, but it's usually wise to keep a couple open roster spots throughout the season in case you have several guys go down with long term injuries.

 

Of course you want to demonstrate to the players that you want to win every game you play.  On the flip side you also want to give guys an opportunity to play that have demonstrated that they deserve it.  I'm not close enough to the team to know who that might be, if anyone.

 

We all knew going into this season that there would be growing pains.  One injury, even to a key component like Giordano shouldn't ring the alarm bells to add new bodies.  However, if the Flames can pick up a guy for a relatively cheap return, and that player wouldn't be a short term, stop gap solution then that's okay.

[Carty]

The NHL.com article on gio's injury waaaaay on the bottom it says Stempniak is week to week with a broken foot aswell?

Is this true and if so why is nothing said.

 

I have heard that it was a broken foot for Stempy as well...  

 

The is from the article you mentioned...

 

In addition, Flames right wing Lee Stempniak is considered week-to-week with a broken foot, and defenseman Christopher Breen is day-to-day with a strain of his abdominal wall.

 

and it can be found here...   http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=689041   So I think that Stempy could be out for a while as well...

 

The Flames missing both Gio and Stempy is really going to hurt...

 

 

 

[JTech780]

With the Leafs in town tonight I wonder if JM Liles rumors are going to start heating up. It feels like if we dealt for him now we would be coming from less of a position of strength than before and might not get as good of a deal. I think the speculation that I read was a 3rd or a 4th for Liles, I am not a fan of giving up that for Liles, If that is the price I would rather talk to LA about Alec Martinez or Keaton Ellerby as they are both younger and cheaper.

 

The big name that is in the rumor mill is Dmitry Kulikov I am just not sure what it would take to get him, but he is the right kind of player to target, has really good upside is still only 23 and has alright size at 6'1". Florida is said to want young NHL ready players so I wonder if something involving Backlund + would work. Backlund needs a fresh start as it just isn't working here, it seems like Colborne and Monahan have passed him n the depth chart and now Backlund is getting 4th line minutes, maybe it is time to move him while he still has some perceived value.

[travel_dude]

With the Leafs in town tonight I wonder if JM Liles rumors are going to start heating up. It feels like if we dealt for him now we would be coming from less of a position of strength than before and might not get as good of a deal. I think the speculation that I read was a 3rd or a 4th for Liles, I am not a fan of giving up that for Liles, If that is the price I would rather talk to LA about Alec Martinez or Keaton Ellerby as they are both younger and cheaper.

 

The big name that is in the rumor mill is Dmitry Kulikov I am just not sure what it would take to get him, but he is the right kind of player to target, has really good upside is still only 23 and has alright size at 6'1". Florida is said to want young NHL ready players so I wonder if something involving Backlund + would work. Backlund needs a fresh start as it just isn't working here, it seems like Colborne and Monahan have passed him n the depth chart and now Backlund is getting 4th line minutes, maybe it is time to move him while he still has some perceived value.

Looking at his profile, he seems like he has most of the tools.  I'm not sure that Baclund gets it done, not would I say that I would like to lose our best posession centre.  He is playing 4th line and PK minutes because they don't have a 4th scoring line set up.  Hartley did say he needed to step up, so it is very much like Colborne in that he needs to earn the minutes. 

 

I like Backs, but I think that his offense was ruined being groomed as a 2-way C.  You see flashes of the skill when he carries the puck to the net.  The only way he will move up the lines if when he develops chemistry with a player and they start scoring.  Right now he does add value to the 4th line, but he needs to play a few more minutes at the least.

 

Sorry, this was supposed to be a response to your trade suggestion.  I don't know how he would fit in with the work ethics here, but at the very least he could be a short-term fix.  He doesn't work out attitude wise, move him at TDL.  I would not overpay for him though.

[Flyerfan52]

Somehow I cut JTech's name off this quote. Sorry.

 

 

With the Leafs in town tonight I wonder if JM Liles rumors are going to start heating up. It feels like if we dealt for him now we would be coming from less of a position of strength than before and might not get as good of a deal. I think the speculation that I read was a 3rd or a 4th for Liles, I am not a fan of giving up that for Liles, If that is the price I would rather talk to LA about Alec Martinez or Keaton Ellerby as they are both younger and cheaper.

 

The big name that is in the rumor mill is Dmitry Kulikov I am just not sure what it would take to get him, but he is the right kind of player to target, has really good upside is still only 23 and has alright size at 6'1". Florida is said to want young NHL ready players so I wonder if something involving Backlund + would work. Backlund needs a fresh start as it just isn't working here, it seems like Colborne and Monahan have passed him n the depth chart and now Backlund is getting 4th line minutes, maybe it is time to move him while he still has

 

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Even down a defense in Gio the only way I'd be OK with Feaster/Burke taking him off TML's hands is if they retain salary & sweeten the deal with a good pick or prospect. The amount retained would be determined by our percieved value of the sweetener.

Liles isn't the answer to our missing D. Taking him on should only be done if the gain exceeds the cost. We are basically trading cash, cap space & a roster spot for the extra(s).

 

The only rumor about Kulikov I've heard regards (oddly enough) the Maple Leafs having interest. His age puts him in that young NHL ready group as D usually haven't hit prime @ 23 so he's the type the Panthers should keep.

[JTech780]

Looking at his profile, he seems like he has most of the tools. I'm not sure that Baclund gets it done, not would I say that I would like to lose our best posession centre. He is playing 4th line and PK minutes because they don't have a 4th scoring line set up. Hartley did say he needed to step up, so it is very much like Colborne in that he needs to earn the minutes.

I like Backs, but I think that his offense was ruined being groomed as a 2-way C. You see flashes of the skill when he carries the puck to the net. The only way he will move up the lines if when he develops chemistry with a player and they start scoring. Right now he does add value to the 4th line, but he needs to play a few more minutes at the least.

It would for sure take more than Backlund to get Kulikov but if you are getting a young top 4 defenseman I think Backlund is more than expendable. At this point I think we can replace Backlund with a Horak or a Knight.

I like Backlund, but if he can't win a top 9 spot this year it really concerns me. I am also one that believes that the center position is the most important to team success outside of goaltending, but I just don't see Backlund as part of the solution with this team going forward.

[Flyerfan52]

The NHL.com article on gio's injury waaaaay on the bottom it says Stempniak is week to week with a broken foot aswell?

Is this true and if so why is nothing said.

Stemps is a loss as well but I figured people would mention him if they wanted.

 

I think we can likely fill in on the front end for those weeks easier then the long term loss of Gio. Just my opinion.

[The_People1]

Wreckening mentioned a decimated D in Abby so let's destroy 2 teams rather then add a cheap fix in Ian White or a couple of picks for a player that can help a not so great D for a few years.

 

Farm teams are made to be destroyed.

 

Plus, it's not two teams being destroyed here.  It's the parent team getting the chance to look at their prospects.  Players in the farm play their hearts out for the opportunity to step into the NHL when an injury happens.  It sends a wrong message to trade their NHL opportunity away for a player who would not be on the franchise's long term plans. 

[geos]

It would for sure take more than Backlund to get Kulikov but if you are getting a young top 4 defenseman I think Backlund is more than expendable. At this point I think we can replace Backlund with a Horak or a Knight.

I like Backlund, but if he can't win a top 9 spot this year it really concerns me. I am also one that believes that the center position is the most important to team success outside of goaltending, but I just don't see Backlund as part of the solution with this team going forward.

 

I don't see why you wouldn't play Backlund ahead of Baertschi or Galiardi on the wing. Baertschi hasn't been any better than Backs and is way more one dimensional. Backs doesn't HAVE to play centre if Stajan (debatable) and Monahan (sure) are outplaying him. That's fine. Move him to the wing.

 

Playing him with McGrattan is a joke. He deserves way more for his performance this year.

[lordxan]

Mmm speaking of options, Phaneuf (big tough 28 yrs old D) has some pretty good play and stats as of late (+10 averaging 24 mins per game wit 7 pts in 13 game an't too shabby).

 

Problem is contract year, past history here not the best and cost to get him too high I suspect:

 

However, IF he could be signed around 5 mil over 8 yrs say, makes it an affordable contract, affordable contracts can be moved.

 

Past history, I see this as probably the show stopper here, Gio is the man and Phaneuf's ego may cause issues with that, but he has matured since he left Cgy so he may be able to accept the fact Gio is our captain.

 

Cost, I see TO asking WAY too much in a trade for him, but hard to say all depends on current contract talks and his fit on the team moving forward.  TO has some great young talent on the D, so moving Phaneuf may be a good option for them,  Just as long as it's not a 1st rounder I'd think he could be a consideration to fill our hole on the D.  Keeping in mind, this would not be a short term stop gap, rather a transitional move as we wait a few yrs for some of our younger D to develop.

 

All things considered, if the 3 points above could be settled, He'd be a great re-acquisition filling a huge hole on this team...But I think the ego of Phaneuf may be a show stopper.  But one never knows, we have seen crazy lop sided trades in the past and crazy low contracts before.

 

Gotta say Gio and Phaneuf would be a great veteran D pair for young D to play with, throw in Wides not too bad and not too old as far as vets go over the next few years.