robrob74 Posted December 13, 2019 Report Share Posted December 13, 2019 12 minutes ago, cross16 said: Igor Shestroykin has been tabbed as the "next one" by the Rangers the last few years. Currently the best goalie in the AHL in his first full season there, and at 23, since coming over from Russia. 4th rounder from 2014 who has been one of, if the thee, top goalie at multiple levels the last 4/5 seasons. Given the theme of this thread, I find it interesting that there is an excitement about a goalie who holds a sub .900 save % at the AHL level. Who is the sub .900 Goalie? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted December 13, 2019 Report Share Posted December 13, 2019 19 minutes ago, robrob74 said: Who is the sub .900 Goalie? The guy JJ was talking about. He was sub-900 last year in the AHL, but 914 in the NHL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted December 13, 2019 Report Share Posted December 13, 2019 25 minutes ago, robrob74 said: Who is the sub .900 Goalie? Alexander Georgiev. He's having a great season so far and playing well for the Rangers, but a really small sample size. so what I don't understand is the negativity around the Flames goalies and the rush to "fix it" by acquiring guys like that and not just give the talent they have a shot. Or just not being excited with what we have in Rittich. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted December 13, 2019 Report Share Posted December 13, 2019 1 hour ago, cross16 said: Igor Shestroykin has been tabbed as the "next one" by the Rangers the last few years. Currently the best goalie in the AHL in his first full season there, and at 23, since coming over from Russia. 4th rounder from 2014 who has been one of, if the thee, top goalie at multiple levels the last 4/5 seasons. Given the theme of this thread, I find it interesting that there is an excitement about a goalie who holds a sub .900 save % at the AHL level. Not so much that cross. Between Lundqvist and Shestroykin it's seems Georgiev is the odd man out. If he were waiver exempt, which time is running out on, he could go to the A and we'd have a better just in case goalie there. Not at all saying for the big club. I'm almost thinking the NYRs are going to send him down soon and call up Shestroykin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted December 13, 2019 Report Share Posted December 13, 2019 9 minutes ago, conundrumed said: Not so much that cross. Between Lundqvist and Shestroykin it's seems Georgiev is the odd man out. If he were waiver exempt, which time is running out on, he could go to the A and we'd have a better just in case goalie there. Not at all saying for the big club. I'm almost thinking the NYRs are going to send him down soon and call up Shestroykin. I saw that and understand your point. Don't necessarily disagree with it but I think Georgiev also demonstrates what many say about goalies that until you give them a chance it's hard to know what you have. Not much of his career, and certainly his AHL time screamed ready so why are we so quick to write off guys like Z, Gilles, Parsons etc and look externally? I know that's not necessarily you, just the theme and i just don't get it myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted December 13, 2019 Report Share Posted December 13, 2019 19 minutes ago, cross16 said: I saw that and understand your point. Don't necessarily disagree with it but I think Georgiev also demonstrates what many say about goalies that until you give them a chance it's hard to know what you have. Not much of his career, and certainly his AHL time screamed ready so why are we so quick to write off guys like Z, Gilles, Parsons etc and look externally? I know that's not necessarily you, just the theme and i just don't get it myself. Just Gillies. I see a pretty bad goalie in him, but that's just me. Not his fault that he got overhyped, but upon watching him, he was definitely oversold. And he's 26 in a month. Goergiev is 2 yrs younger and has shown success at the NHL level. Gillies hasn't. 12 starts, yanked in 3. Add in this past camp and he just struggled with everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted December 13, 2019 Report Share Posted December 13, 2019 2 hours ago, cross16 said: Igor Shestroykin has been tabbed as the "next one" by the Rangers the last few years. Currently the best goalie in the AHL in his first full season there, and at 23, since coming over from Russia. 4th rounder from 2014 who has been one of, if the thee, top goalie at multiple levels the last 4/5 seasons. Given the theme of this thread, I find it interesting that there is an excitement about a goalie who holds a sub .900 save % at the AHL level. age Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted December 13, 2019 Report Share Posted December 13, 2019 19 minutes ago, conundrumed said: Just Gillies. I see a pretty bad goalie in him, but that's just me. Not his fault that he got overhyped, but upon watching him, he was definitely oversold. And he's 26 in a month. Goergiev is 2 yrs younger and has shown success at the NHL level. Gillies hasn't. 12 starts, yanked in 3. Add in this past camp and he just struggled with everything. Gillies had raw talent. I am sure of it. Georgiev had raw talent. We're all sure of it. I'm not saying Gillies was the world's best prospect. We can't let management off the hook. They need to improve their goaltender development. But in today terms, yeah there's really no point in comparing Gillies to Georgiev. They are on completely different paths now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted December 14, 2019 Report Share Posted December 14, 2019 1 hour ago, jjgallow said: Gillies had raw talent. I am sure of it. Georgiev had raw talent. We're all sure of it. I'm not saying Gillies was the world's best prospect. We can't let management off the hook. They need to improve their goaltender development. But in today terms, yeah there's really no point in comparing Gillies to Georgiev. They are on completely different paths now. I dunno! is it on the organization that Gillies isn’t ready to start games? Every time I ever see him he lets in a terrible goal or two then suddenly looks like a very sound goalie. But until then he looks horrible. So it takes him a goal or two to get ready. Is that on the goalie or on the organization? I wonder, do we need a mentality coach? Who helps with preparedness? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted December 14, 2019 Report Share Posted December 14, 2019 1 hour ago, jjgallow said: Gillies had raw talent. I am sure of it. Georgiev had raw talent. We're all sure of it. I'm not saying Gillies was the world's best prospect. We can't let management off the hook. They need to improve their goaltender development. But in today terms, yeah there's really no point in comparing Gillies to Georgiev. They are on completely different paths now. Which is why I suggested the NYR should have an appetite to move him. But what is fair value? I'm not sure. I wouldn't buy high on him. Is Czarnik buying high? When he hit's the career 60 game mark and becomes waiver eligible, I flush my interest straight down the toilet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted December 14, 2019 Report Share Posted December 14, 2019 8 minutes ago, robrob74 said: I dunno! is it on the organization that Gillies isn’t ready to start games? Every time I ever see him he lets in a terrible goal or two then suddenly looks like a very sound goalie. But until then he looks horrible. So it takes him a goal or two to get ready. Is that on the goalie or on the organization? I wonder, do we need a mentality coach? Who helps with preparedness? It's on the individual, it always is. Look at Dube, who I'd compare to Cirelli. Non-stop motor and very smart. Nobody ruined his development. He is what he is. Look at Rittich. Nobody ruined his development. If you're going to be a top 700 player in the world, you'd better be ready for how hard it is. I don't think any player that doesn't make it can say this or that about their development. They took a flier on you, you couldn't cut it for a multitude of reasons. Stop pointing at others. You failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted December 14, 2019 Report Share Posted December 14, 2019 21 minutes ago, robrob74 said: I dunno! is it on the organization that Gillies isn’t ready to start games? Every time I ever see him he lets in a terrible goal or two then suddenly looks like a very sound goalie. But until then he looks horrible. So it takes him a goal or two to get ready. Is that on the goalie or on the organization? I wonder, do we need a mentality coach? Who helps with preparedness? having a goalie coach without publicised mental challenges themselves would have been a good start in having some kind of hope of mentally preparing our goalie prospects. sorry. but true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted December 14, 2019 Report Share Posted December 14, 2019 4 minutes ago, conundrumed said: It's on the individual, it always is. Look at Dube, who I'd compare to Cirelli. Non-stop motor and very smart. Nobody ruined his development. He is what he is. Look at Rittich. Nobody ruined his development. If you're going to be a top 700 player in the world, you'd better be ready for how hard it is. I don't think any player that doesn't make it can say this or that about their development. They took a flier on you, you couldn't cut it for a multitude of reasons. Stop pointing at others. You failed. Rittich was not developed here, he was just acclimatised here. Don't really want to go down that Rittich path again. Well, yet. It's an off-season conversation. Dube to my knowledge does not have a save percentage I have less concerns about our forward/defence development, it's our goalie development which has specifically well.... been so bad that you had to use a forward to think of a good example Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted December 14, 2019 Report Share Posted December 14, 2019 7 minutes ago, jjgallow said: Rittich was not developed here, he was just acclimatised here. Don't really want to go down that Rittich path again. Well, yet. It's an off-season conversation. Dube to my knowledge does not have a save percentage I have less concerns about our forward/defence development, it's our goalie development which has specifically well.... been so bad that you had to use a forward to think of a good example Okay. jj. Getting a goalie in the system does not legitimize the goalie. He has to put in the work. You can only tell him what to do. If he can't do it? Well, there's only 62 spots in the NHL. Maybe, just maybe, he's not good enough. It doesn't mean the org ruined him. It means goalies are hard to find. Especially goalies that understand how hard it really is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted December 14, 2019 Report Share Posted December 14, 2019 14 minutes ago, conundrumed said: Okay. jj. Getting a goalie in the system does not legitimize the goalie. He has to put in the work. You can only tell him what to do. If he can't do it? Well, there's only 62 spots in the NHL. Maybe, just maybe, he's not good enough. It doesn't mean the org ruined him. It means goalies are hard to find. Especially goalies that understand how hard it really is. Jon Gillies Joni Ortio Leland Irving Mason McDonald (yeah ok it was a weird pick) Matt Keetley Kevin Lalonde James Spratt Andrei Medvedev Trevor Kidd Curtis Mclhenney Laurent Broisoit Jean Sebastian Giguere <**** Brent Krahn Henrik Karlson Reto Berra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted December 14, 2019 Report Share Posted December 14, 2019 31 minutes ago, jjgallow said: Jon Gillies Joni Ortio Leland Irving Mason McDonald (yeah ok it was a weird pick) Matt Keetley Kevin Lalonde James Spratt Andrei Medvedev Trevor Kidd Curtis Mclhenney Laurent Broisoit Jean Sebastian Giguere <**** Brent Krahn Henrik Karlson Reto Berra A list of guys that weren't good enough to be NHL goalies. As I said, they're hard to find. You pretend that they are all over the place, like free candy. You're wrong. So list to me, the 4 biggest attributes for a goalie. I'm interested to know how you scout goalies. Or do just think they're all NHL caliber and the orgs ruin their dev? Who are you giving me next, Tim Thomas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted December 14, 2019 Report Share Posted December 14, 2019 50 minutes ago, jjgallow said: Dwayne Rolosson Trevor Kidd Curtis Mclhenney Laurent Broisoit ****>Jean Sebastian Giguere <**** 20 minutes ago, conundrumed said: A list of guys that weren't good enough to be NHL goalies. As I said, they're hard to find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted December 14, 2019 Report Share Posted December 14, 2019 2 minutes ago, jjgallow said: Let's hear them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted December 14, 2019 Report Share Posted December 14, 2019 17 minutes ago, conundrumed said: Let's hear them. Are there...maybe, two lists really there? Struggled with the Flames, stayed with the Flames, careers ended. 1 hour ago, jjgallow said: Jon Gillies Joni Ortio Leland Irving Mason McDonald (yeah ok it was a weird pick) Matt Keetley Kevin Lalonde James Spratt Andrei Medvedev Brent Krahn Henrik Karlson Reto Berra Struggled with the Flames, Escaped the Flames, Had great NHL careers Quote Dwayne Rolosson Trevor Kidd Curtis Mclhenney Laurent Broisoit Trevor Kidd Jean Sebastian Giguere <**** Or..... are there....Three? Stayed with the Flames, Had great NHL career Quote ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted December 14, 2019 Report Share Posted December 14, 2019 That's a pretty generational list there, no? One that has no present context. So Broissoit is your guy? Over Talbot or Rittich? Or are you just ploughing this, Flames can't develop goalies spiel. You're being ridiculous. BT should have kept Giguere or Roloson. lol 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted December 14, 2019 Report Share Posted December 14, 2019 1 hour ago, conundrumed said: That's a pretty generational list there, no? One that has no present context. So Broissoit is your guy? Over Talbot or Rittich? Or are you just ploughing this, Flames can't develop goalies spiel. You're being ridiculous. BT should have kept Giguere or Roloson. lol sooo...should we stick to the present and use Dube as an example? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted December 19, 2019 Report Share Posted December 19, 2019 Eric Comrie waived, and available right now. I have mixed feellings on this. But thought I'd bring it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted December 19, 2019 Report Share Posted December 19, 2019 12 minutes ago, jjgallow said: Eric Comrie waived, and available right now. I have mixed feellings on this. But thought I'd bring it up. Too old. Ready for retirement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted December 19, 2019 Report Share Posted December 19, 2019 7 minutes ago, travel_dude said: Too old. Ready for retirement. lol. He's younger than Gillies or Rittich, has a better outcome than Gillies for sure, and for all we know could be better than Rittich. I would want him. But I'd also want to release at least 1 goalie to acquire him and possibly 2-3 if he does well. Also we're not exactly the best place for him to develop at the AHL level. But if they took a chance on him as a Flames backup (sorry Talbot), you never know. He could be splitting the games with Riitich in no time. Or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted December 19, 2019 Report Share Posted December 19, 2019 7 minutes ago, jjgallow said: lol. He's younger than Gillies or Rittich, has a better outcome than Gillies for sure, and for all we know could be better than Rittich. I would want him. But I'd also want to release at least 1 goalie to acquire him and possibly 2-3 if he does well. Also we're not exactly the best place for him to develop at the AHL level. But if they took a chance on him as a Flames backup (sorry Talbot), you never know. He could be splitting the games with Riitich in no time. Or not. He isn't good enough to play in the NHL, and he's average at the AHL. Pass. He has has 7 NHL starts and has allowed 4 or more in every one of them except one. He isn't better than any of the goalies in our system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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