Goaltending

[YounGuns]

43 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Big test for Smith tomorrow BOS is an incredible team and he will need to bring his toes for us to have any chance 

Gosh I hope he brings his toes.  Smith has the best toes....  

[kehatch]

Kinkaid is doing well in New Jersey. Schneider has 4 years at 6 million and its possible the Devils would like to get away from that. Would people be into Stone/Frolik+Smith for Schneider? He hasn't played well the last two seasons, but was a high end goalie before he got hurt. Salary lines up with Calgary getting out of one of their not great contracts. 

 

I don't know if NJ would have any interest. This assumes they want to get away from Schneider. 

[cross16]

I'd pass on Schneider personally. I think his best days are behind him and I'm not interested in having another under performing goalie especially at his salary. 

[MAC331]

11 hours ago, rickross said:

"If you want to make God laugh, tell him your plans"

 

-Woody Allen

 

To be honest with u, Woody Allen creeps me the eff out!...but he nailed this comment. Smith is eligible for Old Age pension next year, it's no secret. They'll manage his games but he's the workhorse as long as he's healthy and winning games. BT has said numerous times that Smith is a vet with "low mileage", he's going to ride Smith until the wheels fall off...which they will! 

 

Flames really need to to limit shots on net this season if they want to preserve Smith, this will allow Rittich to gain confidence and experience and develop without the pressure of being thrusted into backstopping the team should Smith miss time. 

Perhaps this is where we see if BP is as smart a coach as we hope he is suppose to be. Errors in judgement happen all the time in sports by coaches. I am simply saying I wouldn't ride Smith like a mule given what we know of his history and his age. Does he need a heavier workload initially, most likely but BP has to work in playing time if he wants a competent back up in Rittich. What that mix of games is will be on the coaches.

[MAC331]

2 hours ago, kehatch said:

Kinkaid is doing well in New Jersey. Schneider has 4 years at 6 million and its possible the Devils would like to get away from that. Would people be into Stone/Frolik+Smith for Schneider? He hasn't played well the last two seasons, but was a high end goalie before he got hurt. Salary lines up with Calgary getting out of one of their not great contracts. 

 

I don't know if NJ would have any interest. This assumes they want to get away from Schneider. 

BT won't trade Smith.

[kehatch]

44 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

BT won't trade Smith.

 

Sure he will. If Smith doesn't start playing well Treliving will do whatever he can to find a goalie. Which will probably include reading Smith given how close we are to the cap. If the Flames miss the playoffs because of poor goal tending there is a very real chance Treliving is out of a job. At the very least he chops off a few of his nine lives. 

[kehatch]

2 hours ago, cross16 said:

I'd pass on Schneider personally. I think his best days are behind him and I'm not interested in having another under performing goalie especially at his salary. 

 

I don't disagree it isn't ideal given his salary, term, age, and performance the last two seasons. But it is unlikely we find an ideal solution. The term definitely scares me because it is a big problem if he doesn't turn it around. 

 

But whatever we do isn't going to be ideal at this point. 

[JTech780]

At this point I think we will have to go with what we have and see what shakes loose at the deadline. I think we will have to reevaluate in the offseason. The big UFA is Bobrovsky and I would take a serious run at him in UFA, but I think he is a long shot. Other names in the UFA market as it stands now are Rinne, Talbot, Lehner, Varlamov and Kinkaid.

[travel_dude]

31 minutes ago, kehatch said:

 

Sure he will. If Smith doesn't start playing well Treliving will do whatever he can to find a goalie. Which will probably include reading Smith given how close we are to the cap. If the Flames miss the playoffs because of poor goal tending there is a very real chance Treliving is out of a job. At the very least he chops off a few of his nine lives. 

 

That's the big question isn't it.  Smith would have to be part of any trade to upgrade the net.

Finding a competant backup isn't that difficult, if that's all we need.

In fact, Rittich may prove to be just that.  Not a starter, a backup.

 

There was some rumors about Mason talking to teams, and he rejected them because he wants to be a starter.

He may not find that job.

Not my first choice, and it really doesn't solve the problem of Smith.

 

We won't hear about it until it happens, but BT will be looking across the league for possible solutions.  He may decide to sit on his hands if he feels Smith has rebounded back to normal.  But I expect that he's talking to GM's about what they have and the cost.  Some teams can't afford a losing streak with their current number 1's.  They may decide to trade them.  With Smith being an expiring asset, BT has to make that decison before the TDL.

[cross16]

41 minutes ago, kehatch said:

 

I don't disagree it isn't ideal given his salary, term, age, and performance the last two seasons. But it is unlikely we find an ideal solution. The term definitely scares me because it is a big problem if he doesn't turn it around. 

 

But whatever we do isn't going to be ideal at this point. 

 

This is the cycle that needs to stop though. Unless we want to keep having this discussion every 2 years.

 

I get what you are saying but if you are going after a non ideal option they better not cost 6 million and be tied up for 4 years. At least up until now they non ideal options have been easy to get out from under if they go south. 

 

 

[travel_dude]

1 minute ago, cross16 said:

 

This is the cycle that needs to stop though. Unless we want to keep having this discussion every 2 years.

 

I get what you are saying but if you are going after a non ideal option they better not cost 6 million and be tied up for 4 years. At least up until now they non ideal options have been easy to get out from under if they go south. 

 

 

 

I agree with what you are saying.  But...

We are still in the cycle.

Smith likely won't be here next year unless he turns into 2011/12 Smith.

Whoever is the replacement needs to be a clear cut upgrade.

Banking on our goalie prospects being ready to be starters next year is ambitious.

[cross16]

9 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I agree with what you are saying.  But...

We are still in the cycle.

Smith likely won't be here next year unless he turns into 2011/12 Smith.

Whoever is the replacement needs to be a clear cut upgrade.

Banking on our goalie prospects being ready to be starters next year is ambitious.

 

Sure and there is a possibility it continues next year too. 

 

But it needs to end. When is the questions, but it does need to end. When and how everyone will differ on, but what I would say is it won't end by picking up an aging/declining 30 plus year old goalie who will cost 6 million for the next 4 years

[travel_dude]

45 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Sure and there is a possibility it continues next year too. 

 

But it needs to end. When is the questions, but it does need to end. When and how everyone will differ on, but what I would say is it won't end by picking up an aging/declining 30 plus year old goalie who will cost 6 million for the next 4 years

 

No depate there.  We took a two year risk on Smith without the full cap hit.  

It's been good and bad.

About what you should expect for that type of solution.

 

There are some potential starters out there that may be available.  May have to pay quite a lot for that too.

Bob is going to cost too much.

Schneider hasn't looked good recently.  Is a rebound even possible.

Darling is no longer a darling.  Maybe he isn't anything special.

Varly has shown to be a good goalie over the years, is a pending UFA, and could be replaced by Grubauer by the end of the year.

$5.9m currently.  Would likely command $6m+ for a short term deal.

Will Dubnyk be available? $4.33m for 2 more years.

 

Just some thought.  Don't know if there are any backups currently out there that we could swoop in on.  Washington may decide to move on from Samsonov.  I doubt it.  Slow start, but he 's just adjusting.

 

[kehatch]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

This is the cycle that needs to stop though. Unless we want to keep having this discussion every 2 years.

 

I get what you are saying but if you are going after a non ideal option they better not cost 6 million and be tied up for 4 years. At least up until now they non ideal options have been easy to get out from under if they go south. 

 

 

 

I agree that we need something effective and long term. But whatever we do will probably be a risk that most of us won't love. Schneider is 32, hasn't played well in two season, and is inked for 4 more at 6 million. Extending Smith isn't ideal given his age and play. Bobrovsky is going to make over 10 million per year if we even have a shot at signing him. Varlamov might be a good target, but will he even be available and what will be cost to sign? Rittich/Parsons/Gilles aren't inspiring confidence to be starters. 

 

I agree the best thing to do is to ride this season until at least the deadline and probably the summer. That gives you time to assess the kids and see what is available via trade/free agency. But if Smith keeps playing poorly Treliving may need to accelerate things to keep from throwing a season away. 

[MAC331]

3 hours ago, kehatch said:

 

Sure he will. If Smith doesn't start playing well Treliving will do whatever he can to find a goalie. Which will probably include reading Smith given how close we are to the cap. If the Flames miss the playoffs because of poor goal tending there is a very real chance Treliving is out of a job. At the very least he chops off a few of his nine lives. 

I'll bet you 2 tickets to a game of your choice, level 200 Smith is here for the season.

[travel_dude]

4 hours ago, kehatch said:

 

I agree that we need something effective and long term. But whatever we do will probably be a risk that most of us won't love. Schneider is 32, hasn't played well in two season, and is inked for 4 more at 6 million. Extending Smith isn't ideal given his age and play. Bobrovsky is going to make over 10 million per year if we even have a shot at signing him. Varlamov might be a good target, but will he even be available and what will be cost to sign? Rittich/Parsons/Gilles aren't inspiring confidence to be starters. 

 

I agree the best thing to do is to ride this season until at least the deadline and probably the summer. That gives you time to assess the kids and see what is available via trade/free agency. But if Smith keeps playing poorly Treliving may need to accelerate things to keep from throwing a season away. 

 

All the more reason to see what Rittich is early on.

I would like him to have played 20 games by TDL.

If we have nothing good by then, a change is necessary.

[kehatch]

5 hours ago, MAC331 said:

I'll bet you 2 tickets to a game of your choice, level 200 Smith is here for the season.

 

Not a chance. Smith could turn things around. There may be no trades out there. One of the kids might step up. I am not saying the Flames will trade Smith. But to suggest "Treliving won't trade Smith" isn't accurate at all. If he can trade Smith and make the team better, or if Smith play forces the issue, he will absolutely make a move. 

[travel_dude]

Decision to start Smith tonight was the right one.

Infuriating at times, but made solid saves when they came at him.

 

Any thought about the next game?

Previously a high shot shutout.  Think the Flames want to mess up their scouting on his weaknesses?

Or go with the starter?

 

[kehatch]

8 hours ago, travel_dude said:

Decision to start Smith tonight was the right one.

Infuriating at times, but made solid saves when they came at him.

 

Any thought about the next game?

Previously a high shot shutout.  Think the Flames want to mess up their scouting on his weaknesses?

Or go with the starter?

 

 

Smith for sure. Rittich should start about 1 in 4 unless the Flames are forced to change things up. I would pencil Rittich in against New York and then Buffalo, and adjust if Smith has a couple of bad starts back to back. 

[MAC331]

12 hours ago, kehatch said:

 

Not a chance. Smith could turn things around. There may be no trades out there. One of the kids might step up. I am not saying the Flames will trade Smith. But to suggest "Treliving won't trade Smith" isn't accurate at all. If he can trade Smith and make the team better, or if Smith play forces the issue, he will absolutely make a move. 

We will see but that is how I see it.

[YounGuns]

I thought Smith had a great game last night.  Both teams came out with jump, but we made a couple defensive clearing errors real early and Smith had to be very sharp early.  He kept the puck outta the net, and gave our boys a chance to go up 1-0.  Can't fault him on either of the goals he let in.  That Boston top line is so good, they'll get their looks.  Fortunately for us, our top shut down line actually outplayed them at both ends of the ice, and Smith certainly outplayed Rask.

 

I know some people cringe when Smith goes behind the net to play the puck, but I wouldn't want him to stop it.  He's really good at playing the puck, the defense is starting to remember how he plays it and are adjusting accordingly, it saves the D from getting wrecked on hits, and allows us to quickly move the puck up ice.  Smith seemed even more active with puck handling last night, and I think that's because of the team we were playing.  Boston is tenacious on the forecheck, and Smith single handedly deflated that part of their game for most of the night.  There was one moment where he held on to the puck longer than I would have liked...but I think it's a awesome part of his game and I love that he has that.

 

My biggest concern with how he plays the puck isn't Smith, but it's the impact it has when Rittich plays.  We saw last year that the defense got used to Smith's style, and when Rittich played they weren't sure if he was going to play it or leave it - Rittich himself didn't seem to know what to do at times....he knows his D is used to their goalie playing the puck, but that's not his strong suit - and that cost us a few times.

[YounGuns]

10 hours ago, travel_dude said:

Decision to start Smith tonight was the right one.

Infuriating at times, but made solid saves when they came at him.

 

Any thought about the next game?

Previously a high shot shutout.  Think the Flames want to mess up their scouting on his weaknesses?

Or go with the starter?

 

Gotta go back to Smith.  He played great, and didn't get a shut out, so that bodes well for the next game...

 

I think you throw Rittich in either against the Rangers or Montreal, and then again with Buffalo.  That has him playing every 4 games, which is perfect.  I don't have any stats to back this up, but I feel like Smith is typically good in the games where he comes back after getting a night off?  In which case you might want Rittich to play Montreal, and then get back to Smith for Pittsburgh, Washington and Toronto.  Gosh...that'll be a big test for us...

[conundrumed]

1 hour ago, YounGuns said:

My biggest concern with how he plays the puck isn't Smith, but it's the impact it has when Rittich plays.  We saw last year that the defense got used to Smith's style, and when Rittich played they weren't sure if he was going to play it or leave it - Rittich himself didn't seem to know what to do at times....he knows his D is used to their goalie playing the puck, but that's not his strong suit - and that cost us a few times.

Rittich plays it right.

Smith is adventurous.

I think the D know they can play it normal.

When comes out it's, "uh-oh, what's he going to do"?

If he doesn't see an option, it's off the glass to their dman around the red line, or the wheels come right off.

Always an adventure, not always good ones.

[The_People1]

4 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Rittich plays it right.

Smith is adventurous.

I think the D know they can play it normal.

When comes out it's, "uh-oh, what's he going to do"?

If he doesn't see an option, it's off the glass to their dman around the red line, or the wheels come right off.

Always an adventure, not always good ones.

 

At least it's not Patrick Roy stick handling to Center ice.  But ya, let the D play the puck.

[conundrumed]

14 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

At least it's not Patrick Roy stick handling to Center ice.  But ya, let the D play the puck.

He totally froze Stone a few games back with a lateral pass. Could tell Stone was completely not expecting it. Led to a goal against and Stone being blamed.

At any level of hockey, when you're goalie is handling the puck, there needs to be consistency. Not, "uh-oh, what's he going to do"?

He may have a fwd trying for the long bomb, but when he doesn't, everyone's just kinda frozen.