Goaltending

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Was at the game tonight, not completely sold on Lack. I know he was pushed into a tough spot against a good blues team, but every shot I felt nervous. But I gotta give him credit, he made a big toe save and ended up getting the win.

 

The question is how serious is Smith hurt and is it Gillies or Rittich that gets the call-up?

 

Whether or not Smith is hurt, he has been showing some wear and tear recently.  I would start Lack against the Wings.  Just give Smith that extra few days if he isn't that banged up.  To be fair to Lack, Ferland deflected the 3rd goal, and the Tank goal was a killer one-timer.

 

To answer your question, Rittich has the better numbers, but it doesn't matter because they would only be the backup except for a B2B at the end of the trip.

[JustAFlamer]

really hope Smith is fine, he had a great start to season, and just his passion and attitude drags the other players into the game.

Hope they make some sort of announcement soon

 

really has been the star of the flames so far this year, hope he just needs a break to get back

and yes i know where gaudreau is in points and that he was starting to wear out a little (last few games) but he stole us a few AND kept us in a bunch more.

even with the starting to wear out was giving us what was needed.

 

Totally different team outlook with him out.

[Flyerfan52]

Watching Raanta against the Jets twice I'm glad we didn't trade for him.

He'd probably look different behind the Calgary D but remember my choice for starter was Mason who isn't looking good for the Jets as Hellebuyck suddenly plays like a star.

 

I think Carty will agree goalies are strange.

[Thebrewcrew]

https://flamesnation.ca/2017/11/14/report-mike-smith-didnt-travel-with-the-team-to-detroit/

 

Should get some clarity tomorrow. Lack was gonna start anyway even if Smith made the trip most likely. I'll be interested to see if he is just listed as day to day or placed on the IR.

[Zirakzigil]

Its slightly worrisome that he didnt travel with the team, considering how close together these games are. I think he misses a few games minimum. 

[JTech780]

 

[travel_dude]

13 hours ago, Flyerfan52 said:

Watching Raanta against the Jets twice I'm glad we didn't trade for him.

He'd probably look different behind the Calgary D but remember my choice for starter was Mason who isn't looking good for the Jets as Hellebuyck suddenly plays like a star.

 

I think Carty will agree goalies are strange.

 

Darling seems to be the only former backup that is doing well.  Grubauer is not doing well.

Raanta is probably experiencing what Smith did for year in ARI.  

 

1 hour ago, JTech780 said:

 

 

Gillies in on emergency recall, as the goalie position doesn't require a guy be placed on IR.

Still have 23 players plus Gillies.  Smith not on IR.  Once Smith is cleared to play, Gillies goes back. 

 

We need Eddie to show up.  Make it a tougher choice for the coach.   

[redfire11]

10 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Gillies in on emergency recall, as the goalie position doesn't require a guy be placed on IR.

Still have 23 players plus Gillies.  Smith not on IR.  Once Smith is cleared to play, Gillies goes back. 

 

We need Eddie to show up.  Make it a tougher choice for the coach.   

We need our defense to show up. Detroit can be explosive.

[travel_dude]

3 hours ago, travel_dude said:

Darling seems to be the only former backup that is doing well.  Grubauer is not doing well.

Raanta is probably experiencing what Smith did for year in ARI. 

 

To add to that, I am so glad we didn't get Bishop.  

[The_People1]

7 hours ago, JTech780 said:

 

 

Why bother travelling with the team?  I feel we've overplayed Smith by 2 games already.  Might as well give him the full week to recover.

[cross16]

Boy you really have to wonder what it was the flames saw in Lack. Given how many experienced backups were available for free in the off-season I consider it a huge miss to trade for Lack. 

I get they basically gave up nothing but hard not to question what it was they thought he was. Been pretty much terrible since day 1 in camp. 

[JTech780]

15 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Boy you really have to wonder what it was the flames saw in Lack. Given how many experienced backups were available for free in the off-season I consider it a huge miss to trade for Lack. 

I get they basically gave up nothing but hard not to question what it was they thought he was. Been pretty much terrible since day 1 in camp. 

 

What I don't get is that GG would have had a big say in BT getting Lack and then GG hasn't shown any confidence in Lack since training camp. Hard for the team to trust a player when the coach doesn't trust him at all.

[cross16]

Just now, JTech780 said:

 

What I don't get is that GG would have had a big say in BT getting Lack and then GG hasn't shown any confidence in Lack since training camp. Hard for the team to trust a player when the coach doesn't trust him at all.

 

Based on how he performed in pre season and from what I've heard about in practice I wouldn't have faith in him either. 

 

All around it was a huge miss on the organization to acquire Lack. 

[travel_dude]

14 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Based on how he performed in pre season and from what I've heard about in practice I wouldn't have faith in him either. 

 

All around it was a huge miss on the organization to acquire Lack. 

 

I agree they should have started him earlier in the season.

 

Saying that, they should have just gone with Rittich if they were just going to shop at Value Village.

[Thebrewcrew]

What I'd do is start Gillies in PHI, give Smith the week off. Philly is a tough road barn and features the leagues most lethal 1st line. If Gillies plays well, then you have your backup, if not if I were BT I'd call TOR about Pickard. Another idea I had prior to the start of the season was doing what CBJ did the last few years, shuttling Forsberg and Korpisalo up and down so both stay in game condition, we could do that with Gillies and Rittich.

 

I can't see them continuing on with Lack even befoe tonight 1 start in the first 17 games? If that doesn't scream zero confidence I don't know what does. If we want to be a playoff team we are gonna need a backup the coach can trust as we are gonna need 10-15 wins out of him.

[Thebrewcrew]

In other news 38 saves for Parsons in a 2-1 OT win

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

What I'd do is start Gillies in PHI, give Smith the week off. Philly is a tough road barn and features the leagues most lethal 1st line. If Gillies plays well, then you have your backup, if not if I were BT I'd call TOR about Pickard. Another idea I had prior to the start of the season was doing what CBJ did the last few years, shuttling Forsberg and Korpisalo up and down so both stay in game condition, we could do that with Gillies and Rittich.

 

I can't see them continuing on with Lack even befoe tonight 1 start in the first 17 games? If that doesn't scream zero confidence I don't know what does. If we want to be a playoff team we are gonna need a backup the coach can trust as we are gonna need 10-15 wins out of him.

 

I think the only way you can keep a goalie like Rittich and Gillies fresh is to shuttle them.  So I agree.  These two guys are starters and need playing time, AHL or NHL.  The side benefit is you can get Parsons some reps in the AHL.  

 

Other than that, look for a real backup.  Raanta hasn't looked good, but he was a stellar backup.  May be cheap for a guy like BT.  I would at least have some faith in him.  I doubt TOR trades Pickard.  They got him because they are unsure about their current backup. 

 

EDIT - Forgot what they paid for Raanta.  A cap dump and Raanta for DeAngelo and a 7th overall.   

[phoenix66]

Heres the thing , and if we can say one thing with confidence ..Its that  BT is not a stupid guy ..

 

We knew a few things coming into this season :

1) Smith is injury prone.. there was a high likelihood hed get hurt at some point and we'd need to ride the backup 

2)Lack got destroyed in Carolina, but his past history in Vcr made him a very good choice to run a project as a high risk / high reward backup

3) BT is and has been very confident in our goalie pipeline and did not want to block them but did not want to rush them either 

 

How this will likely (and should) play out ..

1) Lack get the start Saturday . if he redeems himself.. all is well with the world.. but if he busts..

2) He gets waived , hopefully sent to the farm.. if claimed, then fine Parsons graduates to the Heat 

3) Gillies gets first crack as backup .. if he falters , or sits way too long waiting for Smith to not play then rotate him with Rittich

4) if for any reason we deem both guys not ready this year .. then..and only then 

5) find a stop gap backup .. but dont expect a big (for a backup) name . I would suspect a Mcilhenney. possibly even a Berra .. somebody you get for a very low pick because the team just needs the room . the Panthers just picked up Domingue too, hes #3 on the depth 

[cross16]

I don't know how you can possible go back to Lack. He's been terrible since day 1 here and I hated his body language tonight. He looked like a defeated player with no confidence. I get you had a tough night but your stil a part of the team. 

 

Id personally be done with him. Let Gilles play and start pounding the phones looking for a vet. 

[travel_dude]

I don't think the decision to get Lack is totally on BT.  I would suggest that Gully had a big input into that choice.  Smith was a good call, but he left the backup choice to a recommendation.  Where it gets a little weird is that Gully waited so long (10 games) to get Lack into a game.  Almost like he didn't see the same player in pre-season and practices.  I have to think that BT watched the game and thought, "No, not again". 

 

Yes, the gutsy thing to do is start Lack again.  Everyone in the room is mad about the game.  The goalie is going to fight every shot.  But, the other side of the coin is you only get so many losses this early before you start falling out.  A win takes the pressure off Smith's return.  Another loss by Lack right now and you are hooped.  You have no backup goalie plan.  Gillies would get the next game but there's even more pressure on him.  

 

Sorry, but the backup has to be able to come in with little notice.  Gillies should get the next start.

 

[travel_dude]

5 minutes ago, cross16 said:

I don't know how you can possible go back to Lack. He's been terrible since day 1 here and I hated his body language tonight. He looked like a defeated player with no confidence. I get you had a tough night but your stil a part of the team. 

 

Id personally be done with him. Let Gilles play and start pounding the phones looking for a vet. 

 

We had Chad last season as a capable backup who ended up fighting to be a starter.  Gillies is the only choice available right now.  He gets you a win, and suddenly you aren't panicking about Smith being out for a few games. If we find a vet, then great.  Gillies can go back to playing 30+ games in the AHL.

 

Calgary will be classy in how they deal with Lack, but his starts are probably done.  No way can you trust him for 20 games this season.  

[Kipper14]

They were talking about this between intermissions tonight, and a few names I recall Friedman tossing out...

 

Michael Hutchinson

Calvin Pickard

Antti Raanta 

Chad Johnson coming back...

 

Both Doug Mclean and Elliott Friedman suggested the team has no confidence in Lack, and it's just not healthy to keep him around, waive him to stockton and see what it might take to snag one of the above mentioned guys.

[jjgallow]

On 15/10/2017 at 10:07 AM, jjgallow said:

If you're going to stand by a 35 year old goalie as a great move and such, ok.    But then be prepared to admit you were wrong when the inevitable happens that happens every year when we bring in older vets, overplay them in the regular season, have zero backup plan, and they let us down when we need them the most.   

 

So it's bad form to say "I told you so".

 

But oh well.

 

Just joking....it's only one game.   At the same time, it's  clear that Smith is showing the effects of a 35 year old overplayed goalie and even if he makes a full recovery and gets back in the lineup, it's becoming clear that our current system isn't sustainable.  Sure, Smith could be Part of a Short term solution but he can't be the Whole solution.  And he can't be the long term solution.

 

The organisation doesn't have confidence in Lack.   Or...should I say, there is a "Lack of confidence"...  dun dun dun

 

Gillies:  Didn't look ready.  Maybe he bounces back.   Maybe we doesn't.   One thing's for sure:  We cannot pin all our future or current hopes on him.

 

 

EITHER way:   We suck at producing players in this position.  And something needs to give.

 

We need a Real, Permanent, Long Term solution in Net.   Right now.  IMHO  (We've actually needed one for the last 10 years but hey, it's more obvious at the moment)

 

Before we give up more top draft picks for 35 year olds, an example suggestion:

 

Vancouver is fine in net.   Vancouver is failing catastrophically at center.   They have Bo Horvat.   That is it.  Nobody else is doing anything useful for them at that position.

 

The Flames have a surplus of Centers.

 

Jankowski is looking to be our new Backlund.  With time, who knows.  Maybe more.

 

 

Thatcher Demko for Michael Backlund.       

 

I can already feel the discontent.   But truth is, as good as Backlund is, as much as we love him....   we have depth there.

 

And Demko stands every chance of being a franchise goalie.   He could step in now and be better than Lack or Gillies.  And maybe give Smith a run for his money.   More importantly, give Smith an opportunity to get some rest.

[kehatch]

Trade Backlund and kiss the season good bye. He is the reason that Monahan and Gaudreau get the offensive assignments. And we are still a two line team and Backlund drives one of those lines. 

 

Smith is fine. I have zero issues seeing what we have in Gilles / Rittich for a game or two while he gets better. If they aren't ready you can get a back up for a lot less then Backlund. 

 

I agree with others that Lack was a miss. He hasn't shown anything regular or preseason that suggests he is a good option in the NHL. The sooner they pull the chute on Lack the better. 

[jjgallow]

6 hours ago, kehatch said:

Trade Backlund and kiss the season good bye.

 

A touch dramatic, maybe?  If our whole season rests on one player then we might as well make the trade cause that ain't gonna cut it.     IMHO the organization has made some aweful decisions based on that logic for many years now.   And in hindsight most/all of their short term concerns weren't as dire as they thought.

 

Backlund's great.    He's at peak value right now as you know.  We've gone through this with a  lot of players and we Always hold on 2-3 years too long and get nothing back for them.    Demko's likely a franchise goalie.     You have to give something to get something.

 

Also, I have to say, I've been impressed with Janko.  Don't you think you're selling him a little short?  Janko for Demko is a possibility too, but lacks a lot of foresight.

 

Again, if our whole season depends on Backlund, IMHO it's because we fail to sell high and buy low, and thus lack the depth we Should have.

 

 Backlund is at peak value right now.   He will hit 30 next season.   Demko has yet to make his impact on the NHL.    Two years from now, likely even a year from now, there's No way this trade would happen.   Right now is the only time it would even be possible.