Goaltending

[jjgallow]

1 hour ago, cccsberg said:

The comment about Haynes is stupid

 

Sure, whatever.  Your call.  But the above is immature.

 

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and offensive.

 

Are you Really going to play that card?   What part of what I wrote was offensive?  What exactly are you implying, and what are you basing your implication on?   I don't come on here with a goal of offending people.  It might happen from time to time by accident, but I'm really curious how you feel it happened here.   If you're offended then you better have a reason and not just be grasping at straws and making wild assumptions.  Because I find that offensive.  Explain yourself.

 

 

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 If you read his stuff that would be readily apparent.

 

Maybe if you watched/played more hockey and read less ESPN articles, my point would be more apparent to you.

 

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 As for Lack, he's played reasonably well so far,

 

This is a Totally ridiculous statement that can not be defended in any way.

 

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considering, and there is little sense to thinking our best near-ready goalie is going to be riding the pine here anytime soon.  

 

This also makes zero sense.  Explain why the next best option is not an option.

[jjgallow]

9 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

Well, I was sorta saying that a backup has to be used to not playing and be able to come in for a game.  Rittich and Gillies need to get playing now, which doesn't fit well with the situation in CGY.  Lack is only a lock because of this.  I don't think you can lose a backup spot in pre-season unless you don't do anything right.  

 

This is said at the beginning of each season, as it was last season, about the backup.   

 

It has never been the case, not once, since Kipper.   And I highly doubt having a starter older than myself is going to change that.

[redfire11]

I watched Lack in both his preseason games ( edmonton game I watched through Kodi so it was off and on).

My opinion was Lack played well under the circumstances.

If he would have had our big 4 D in front of him both games we would not be having this argument.

I havn't seen any outstanding play from Gilles to take the backup role away from him starting the season.

[travel_dude]

5 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

This is said at the beginning of each season, as it was last season, about the backup.   

 

It has never been the case, not once, since Kipper.   And I highly doubt having a starter older than myself is going to change that.

 

If Gillies had played more than 7 games in 2015/16, we may not be discussing Lack.  Had Gillies had a better season last year, we may not be discussing Lack.  Rittich actually played well enough last season, but still only 31 games in the AHL.  I don't think you can realistically pass him the backup job this year in Calgary right out of camp.  

 

I get your frustration about signing meh players to fill an essential role.  Ortio and Irving never managed to shine in the AHL (most recent season he played), nor be able to play in the NHL beyond one stretch of good games followed by bad games.  MacDonald looks like a bad pick.  We traded Brossoit.  When Gillies gets to the Murray level of consistency, he will get the job and Lack (or Smith) will be sent along their way.    

[rickross]

So is Parsons ECHL bound or is he staying in Stockton? It doesn't hurt but carrying 3 potential goalies in Stockton isn't ideal from s development standpoint. Last thing we'd want is another Ramo, Hiller and Ortio logjam

[kehatch]

7 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

This is said at the beginning of each season, as it was last season, about the backup.   

 

It has never been the case, not once, since Kipper.   And I highly doubt having a starter older than myself is going to change that.

 

You would have a lot more support if Gilles was killing it in the preseason or coming off of a great AHL season. Preferably both. He isn't. End of debate. 

[AlbertaBoy12]

2 hours ago, kehatch said:

 

You would have a lot more support if Gilles was killing it in the preseason or coming off of a great AHL season. Preferably both. He isn't. End of debate. 

This sums up the arguement.

[kehatch]

Sounds like Smith gets the last two starts. My guess is Gilles backs up tomorrow as an "Atta boy" and goes back to the AHL Friday. The Flames should have their final roster for the last game. 

[jjgallow]

5 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

If Gillies had played more than 7 games in 2015/16, we may not be discussing Lack.  Had Gillies had a better season last year, we may not be discussing Lack.  Rittich actually played well enough last season, but still only 31 games in the AHL.  I don't think you can realistically pass him the backup job this year in Calgary right out of camp.  

 

I get your frustration about signing meh players to fill an essential role.  Ortio and Irving never managed to shine in the AHL (most recent season he played), nor be able to play in the NHL beyond one stretch of good games followed by bad games.  MacDonald looks like a bad pick.  We traded Brossoit.  When Gillies gets to the Murray level of consistency, he will get the job and Lack (or Smith) will be sent along their way.    

 

Agreed, but it can also be said that had Gillies not had major season ending hip surgery, we might not be discussing lack, or Smith, or anyone else (potentially).

 

Last year was a major wildcard year.   If it wasn't for the surgery factor, I would have written him off.  But given the surgery, it was impossible to evaluate his season.   We were never really going to know until this year.   And to me a big thing to look for was whether he plateaued, or showed a return to improvement as expected in his originally projected development curve.

 

IMHO, we have seen an improvement in him this preseason over last year.   In lateral movement, in quickness, in general mobility.   All the kinds of improvement that would make sense after such a major surgery.

 

For this reason my outlook for him is considerably more optimistic.  Not because of this pre-season on its own, but because of his original projection and the signs he has shown that he's returning to that development curve.    I personally think he has a better case right now for the job than Lack.   But I'm not concerned about it either.   I'm seeing the improvement and the rest should take care of itself...in the near term.

[jjgallow]

4 hours ago, kehatch said:

 

You would have a lot more support if Gilles was killing it in the preseason or coming off of a great AHL season. Preferably both. He isn't. End of debate. 

 

Is that so now?  Gillies is retiring then, I guess?   Or do we just close the thread as all goalie issues have been solved due to our love of Lack?  The attitude with goalies here has always fascinated me given the consistent and repeated and overwhelmingly poor outcomes year in and year out.

 

Yet we learn nothing.    And consistently expect better outcomes with the same mindset.

 

My original post was just a fun jab at you and nothing more.   But if your stance is still that strong, let me be perfectly clear.  This is just the start of the debate.   Stand behind Lack if you want.  Totally your call.   If his play so far resembled an NHL goaltender in any way whatsoever, then there would be nothing to talk about.  Or even if his performance over the last 3 seasons showed some kind of promise.

[kehatch]

12 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

Is that so now?  Gillies is retiring then, I guess?   Or do we just close the thread as all goalie issues have been solved due to our love of Lack?  The attitude with goalies here has always fascinated me given the consistent and repeated and overwhelmingly poor outcomes year in and year out.

 

Yet we learn nothing.    And consistently expect better outcomes with the same mindset.

 

My original post was just a fun jab at you and nothing more.   But if your stance is still that strong, let me be perfectly clear.  This is just the start of the debate.   Stand behind Lack if you want.  Totally your call.   If his play so far resembled an NHL goaltender in any way whatsoever, then there would be nothing to talk about.  Or even if his performance over the last 3 seasons showed some kind of promise.

 

Sell the soap box and use what you get to buy a trip back to reality. Nobody is selling Lack as anything more then a temporary backup. Suggesting the best thing for Gilles is returning to the AHL to develop his game isn't giving up on him. 

 

Gilles hasn't shown that he is ready. There is nothing to debate about right now. When he does I will be first in line to cheer him onto the team. 

[jjgallow]

2 hours ago, kehatch said:

 

Nobody is selling Lack as anything more then a temporary backup.

 

Please check out the fascinating threads posted above with regards to "Lack is a Lock", and "Gillies is just an insurance piece".

 

If what you wrote was the case, maybe there wouldn't be "as much" of a debate.   But there are apparently opinions out there which have the roles you described of Gillies and Lack completely reversed.

 

By the way...you'll be second in line

[cccsberg]

20 hours ago, jjgallow said:

Sure, whatever.  Your call.  But the above is immature.

Right.

 

Are you Really going to play that card?   What part of what I wrote was offensive? 

Al Jazeera... seemed like a political comment.

 

Maybe if you watched/played more hockey and read less ESPN articles, my point would be more apparent to you.

Never read an ESPN article nor watched a single minute of it in my life....

 

20 hours ago, jjgallow said:

This also makes zero sense.  Explain why the next best option is not an option.

I believe Lack's 5v5 Sv% is 0.923....  and shouldn't Gillies be getting major minutes rather than riding pine for the majority of games?  My thinking anyways.  

 

[cccsberg]

9 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

Agreed, but it can also be said that had Gillies not had major season ending hip surgery, we might not be discussing lack, or Smith, or anyone else (potentially).

 

Last year was a major wildcard year.   If it wasn't for the surgery factor, I would have written him off.  But given the surgery, it was impossible to evaluate his season.   We were never really going to know until this year.   And to me a big thing to look for was whether he plateaued, or showed a return to improvement as expected in his originally projected development curve.

 

IMHO, we have seen an improvement in him this preseason over last year.   In lateral movement, in quickness, in general mobility.   All the kinds of improvement that would make sense after such a major surgery.

 

For this reason my outlook for him is considerably more optimistic.  Not because of this pre-season on its own, but because of his original projection and the signs he has shown that he's returning to that development curve.    I personally think he has a better case right now for the job than Lack.   But I'm not concerned about it either.   I'm seeing the improvement and the rest should take care of itself...in the near term.

Don't disagree with anything you've said here, certainly the surgery screwed up the normal development path.  You also have a good point about the back-up role, however since they brought in Lack (a more veteran presence with a previous good track) there's no way BT is kicking Lack to the side at the start of the season, especially since none of the goalies have really stood on their heads so far.  If Gillies goes back to Stockton and kills it, and Lack flounders in his first handful of games here then that's the time to seriously consider a switch.

[cross16]

I have to agree that i'm not sure why the argument is we are giving up on Gillies just because he won't start the season with the team. Lack will get the first shot but keep in mind the Flames got Caroilna to cover a lot of his salary so if Lack sturggles swapping him and Gillies is a very viable option this season. It wont happen in October but i'm not sure why that is an issue.

 

I think Gillies has been good, but not great, in the preseason and I also agree you are seeing improvement. I hope we continue to see if in the A but for me Gillies is very much still in the mix in terms of the Flames net and short term options. 

[jjgallow]

On 9/28/2017 at 0:09 PM, cross16 said:

I have to agree that i'm not sure why the argument is we are giving up on Gillies just because he won't start the season with the team. 

 

Because that wasn't the initial response.   That's what people backtracked to.   The initial response was that the focus should be on Gillies getting a solid AHL year in this year, and NHL time would be a bad thing. 

[Cowtownguy]

On September 27, 2017 at 10:09 AM, jjgallow said:

 

 

 

I am offended that you felt the need to post that video. 

[conundrumed]

Of 81 goalies that have seen a shot this preseason, here's the sv% standings for our goalies:

66. Eddie Lack

71. Jon Gillies

81. Mike Smith

Just sayin'...

[redfire11]

So far this Preseason:

 

What does Mike Smith and Billy Graham have in common?

 

They can both get 15000 people jumping out of their seats yelling Jxxxx Chxxxx.

 

Just kidding just hoping he pulls it together before the season starts.

 

[Cowtownguy]

8 minutes ago, redfire11 said:

So far this Preseason:

 

What does Mike Smith and Billy Graham have in common?

 

They can both get 15000 people jumping out of their seats yelling Jxxxx Chxxxx.

 

Just kidding just hoping he pulls it together before the season starts.

 

So far, in the game against the Canucks this evening, he has only let one goal in, and it was a free shot in close. I kind of thought that he could have made the save though.

[Zirakzigil]

From the the parts of the game Ive been able to watch at work tonight, Smith hasnt impressed me. Might be another long start. 

[Cowtownguy]

2 minutes ago, Zirakzigil said:

From the the parts of the game Ive been able to watch at work tonight, Smith hasnt impressed me. Might be another long start. 

This has been a terrible game. They do not seem to be taking it seriously at all. A goal every now and then might be nice though. The strategy right now seems to be to win it without scoring a goal somehow. 

[The_Tribal Chief]

Why is it every Goaltender We get that should be good once he comes to calgary he Thinks he can have a holiday

[Zirakzigil]

12 minutes ago, Cowtownguy said:

This has been a terrible game. They do not seem to be taking it seriously at all. A goal every now and then might be nice though. The strategy right now seems to be to win it without scoring a goal somehow. 

I agree the skating has been lackluster all preseason, but the goalies havent been coming up with a save when needed either. 

[cross16]

For a comparison sake, Brian Elliott was excellent in the pre season last year. 

 

something to consider.