Goaltending

[Flyerfan52]

9 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

let me ask this,  I think we are all in agreement that if we can upgrade Elliot, we do it.. if we can't , then he's our best option.

What do people think are realistic options to upgrade , and I'm talking real, not experiments or gambles.

So far I see the list based on comments as :

 

MAF

Murray

Mrazek

Lehner

 

Am I missing anybody ?

I'm of the opinion that an upgrade is preferable & with the glut of goalies available now & after July 1 BT should wait for a good deal & then swoop in. For now those are unlikely to be the name starters but a few of the proven understudies like Grubauer, Raanta, etc should be available. By getting 1 now we've got @ minimum the back half of a tandem & possibly 1 ready to start. Those won't be available after the draft.

After July 1 @ least 1 goalie to fill the other 1/2 will be available given the few probable landing spots. It could be Elliott or 1 better or @ least equal & the want to stay in the NHL as @ least a probable starter lessens the contract expectations.

Unless a Holtby, Rinne, Price is suddenly being shopped in a misguided house cleaning it appears a good, safe way to approach knowing we get @ least the 'tending that fell short last year.

[phoenix66]

1 minute ago, cross16 said:

 

It's the Iginla argument. Your team is not moving int he right direction and won't for several years so do you hang on to your aging star or do you move him for some assets that can help you be that much better in 2-3 years when maybe you can contend? Devils roster is very talent deficient so trading Schendier could get them some assets to help in their rebuild and I think its fair to question how much value there is in holding on to a 31 year goalie while going through a 2-3 year rebuild. Not to mention, does Schendier want to be part of that? They also have Scott Wedgewood and Mackenzie Blackwood in the pipeline that they could turn it over to in a couple of years and both were goalie for Team Canada at the WJ so there is some potential there. 

 

It was a more valid argument before the got the number 1 pick though and I do think its odds have gone down since they got that pick as that was a major shot in the arm but its still a roster that will take a few years. But like I said to me its as plausible an argument as there is for trading Murray/Lehner. 

fair enough.. I can see that as an "under the radar "  move we wouldn't see coming .. Good argument .. wonder if we could do a blockbuster for Schneider and Hall. Id hate to see what that would take . Probably way too much 

[phoenix66]

1 minute ago, Flyerfan52 said:

I'm of the opinion that an upgrade is preferable & with the glut of goalies available now & after July 1 BT should wait for a good deal & then swoop in. For now those are unlikely to be the name starters but a few of the proven understudies like Grubauer, Raanta, etc should be available. By getting 1 now we've got @ minimum the back half of a tandem & possibly 1 ready to start. Those won't be available after the draft.

After July 1 @ least 1 goalie to fill the other 1/2 will be available given the few probable landing spots. It could be Elliott or 1 better or @ least equal & the want to stay in the NHL as @ least a probable starter lessens the contract expectations.

Unless a Holtby, Rinne, Price is suddenly being shopped in a misguided house cleaning it appears a good, safe way to approach knowing we get @ least the 'tending that fell short last year.

that's what I'm thinking.. the obvious starter upgrade option that has to be done before the ED is MAF.. if that doesn't happen I can see BT going for the B like Grubauer, Raanta.. because we can protect a goalie that's going to be the backup , at least at first. Don't think anybody else can

Then worry about the 1A after the ED

[JTech780]

I want to add another name to the list: Tuukka Rask. Again it is a long shot and can filed with ideas like Lehner, Murray and Schneider. The reasoning why Boston would move him is that he makes $7m. They are going to have to pay up big time for Pastrnak who had a hug year for them and is eligible for an offer sheet. On a side note if we were to offer sheet anyone it should be Pastrnak, he checks (or Czechs)a lot of boxes. I also think they will be in heavy for Shattenkirk, he is from the East Coast and played at Boston U. So with those two additions they could use the cap space and look to go after a cheaper option like Steve Mason, Brian Elliott or Grubauer or Raanta. Plus it's Don Sweeney and a lot of his trades have been little nonsensical. 

[travel_dude]

37 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

I am going to get roasted for this but IMO Steve Mason is an upgrade to Elliott as well. Keep in mind i'm not a huge Elliott fan so that's why I think Mason is an upgrade. I agree that Howard is an upgrade as well as Mike Smith. 

 

If you are going to put Murray and Lehner on your list than Cory Schneider should be on there too. Non Zero chance the Devils move him, although I think its less likely than it was before they got the number 1 pick. 

 

 

 

Mason will get more money fropm us than Mason.  Waiting till after the draft is risky.  Maybe a glut of goalies then, but the best ones are going to be available at the draft.  I should say, most likely available.

 

I'm not a big fan of signing a goalie in FA, as the price is usually higher then and the pickings slimmer.  This year is so up in the air.  Best ones available prior to the draft, leftovers available for trade, then UFA's.  Any good UFA's are going to be in demand at that point.  

[Flyerfan52]

30 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

I am going to get roasted for this but IMO Steve Mason is an upgrade to Elliott as well. Keep in mind i'm not a huge Elliott fan so that's why I think Mason is an upgrade. I agree that Howard is an upgrade as well as Mike Smith. 

 

If you are going to put Murray and Lehner on your list than Cory Schneider should be on there too. Non Zero chance the Devils move him, although I think its less likely than it was before they got the number 1 pick. 

 

 

I agree on Mason. Like Elliott he has off games but when he's on he's much better. The rumors I hear about him though are that Hex intends to re-sign him @ a slight discount after the ED to avoid protecting him. Sounds like the Flyers are likely to start the same tandem unless a better option comes up before LV makes their picks.

IMO Schneider is probably more possible after the Debbies won the lottery draft. As you mention in another post NJ has a goalie pipeline again (something they did.t need when Brodeur was playing) & adding a teenaged center doesn't make them a contender. Trading Schneider now should fill a few of their many holes as they'll want youth rather than vets to get players ready about the time 1 of Wedgewood/Blackwood is ready.

[phoenix66]

10 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

I want to add another name to the list: Tuukka Rask. Again it is a long shot and can filed with ideas like Lehner, Murray and Schneider. The reasoning why Boston would move him is that he makes $7m. They are going to have to pay up big time for Pastrnak who had a hug year for them and is eligible for an offer sheet. On a side note if we were to offer sheet anyone it should be Pastrnak, he checks (or Czechs)a lot of boxes. I also think they will be in heavy for Shattenkirk, he is from the East Coast and played at Boston U. So with those two additions they could use the cap space and look to go after a cheaper option like Steve Mason, Brian Elliott or Grubauer or Raanta. Plus it's Don Sweeney and a lot of his trades have been little nonsensical. 

not impossible.. and it is a PC contract too... i just question , even though he's worth every penny, if we can stomach a 7M cap hit 

[Flyerfan52]

2 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

not impossible.. and it is a PC contract too... i just question , even though he's worth every penny, if we can stomach a 7M cap hit 

I'd love to have Rask but 7 x 4 we can't afford.

[cross16]

I have a hard time with arguing Rask would be available. Obviously any player is for the right price but I think that price would be very high and when you factor in acquisition cost and salary I dont' think he is a realistic option for the Flames. I dont' think you go out and Sign Backes to the deal he did if you don't plan on keeping Rask around long term but there is no one behind him. Malcolm Subban sure isn't lightning the world on fire. 

 

I'm also not keen on picking him up at 7mill per. Too much cap space tied up in someone I don't even consider elite anymore. Very good yes, but not elite. 

[phoenix66]

ok then .. that escalated quickly lol

so then its safe to say the only goalie we agree is an upgrade that WILL be available is Fleury /Murray?

 

after that its under the radar stuff we wont see coming til it happens...

[MAC331]

19 hours ago, phoenix66 said:

that's what I'm thinking.. the obvious starter upgrade option that has to be done before the ED is MAF.. if that doesn't happen I can see BT going for the B like Grubauer, Raanta.. because we can protect a goalie that's going to be the backup , at least at first. Don't think anybody else can

Then worry about the 1A after the ED

Interesting that Calgary's name is starting to appear in the MAF rumors now. What does everyone think it would take from us ? Trading Backlund is a hot topic, would Backlund for MAF be an acceptable trade ? JR may think Backlund would look good as a C between Haglin and Hornqvist. Do we think MAF would do the trick for 2 years here ?

[tmac70]

I never have been nor will I be a MAF fan. Teams that play a good defensive style make goalies look good. For some reason out side of Kipper we are a dead pool for net minders. We have a combination of either letting in soft goals or poor D coverage. I have a huge issue  spending  4-7 Mill on a goalie, it is to large a risk for cap space. Mason had a poor season as did Elliott well so did Talbot in Coiler ville the season before. Ranta has played well behind the King and there is obvious some chemistry with JG and Hayes.

 

To NYR: Backlund

CGY: Hayes, Ranta and a pick

[phoenix66]

24 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

Interesting that Calgary's name is starting to appear in the MAF rumors now. What does everyone think it would take from us ? Trading Backlund is a hot topic, would Backlund for MAF be an acceptable trade ? JR may think Backlund would look good as a C between Haglin and Hornqvist. Do we think MAF would do the trick for 2 years here ?

Starting?  thats been a thing since last summer

 

It won't take that much.. if it does happen , remember Pittsburgh is dealing from a weakness. Not only does every team in the league know they have to move him , theres next to No real destinatinations. Without getting into the" will he-wont he-maybe-they-trade-Murray" discussion, there are really only 2 places that they can trade with .. and thats Calgary and Vegas.

Backlund would be a Major overpayment -- when it goes down , I'll be surprised if its more than a 3rd round pick

 

Now.. if they wanted to turn it into something Bigger?.. like MAF, rights to Schultz, Nick Bonino.. now we could be getting into 1st rounder and Backlund territory

[MAC331]

Just now, phoenix66 said:

Starting?  thats been a thing since last summer

 

It won't take that much.. if it does happen , remember Pittsburgh is dealing from a weakness. Not only does every team in the league know they have to move him , theres next to No real destinatinations. Without getting into the" will he-wont he-maybe-they-trade-Murray" discussion, there are really only 2 places that they can trade with .. and thats Calgary and Vegas.

Backlund would be a Major overpayment -- when it goes down , I'll be surprised if its more than a 3rd round pick

Guess it will depend on who JR chooses to protect. He could choose to put more into a deal for a player like Backlund.

[phoenix66]

1 minute ago, MAC331 said:

Guess it will depend on who JR chooses to protect. He could choose to put more into a deal for a player like Backlund.

yup.. see my edit 

[travel_dude]

42 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

I never have been nor will I be a MAF fan. Teams that play a good defensive style make goalies look good. For some reason out side of Kipper we are a dead pool for net minders. We have a combination of either letting in soft goals or poor D coverage. I have a huge issue  spending  4-7 Mill on a goalie, it is to large a risk for cap space. Mason had a poor season as did Elliott well so did Talbot in Coiler ville the season before. Ranta has played well behind the King and there is obvious some chemistry with JG and Hayes.

 

To NYR: Backlund

CGY: Hayes, Ranta and a pick

Funny, I think I mentioned that in another thread.  I would try for Hayes and Raanta, but not using Backlund. 

[phoenix66]

Direct Quote from Treliving .. via Francis and the Calgary Herald:

 

“I’ve heard I’ve tried to get him three or four times, which isn’t correct,” said Treliving, who admittedly got permission to talk contract with Bishop before last year’s draft before opting for a Brian Elliott swap.

“We’re looking at goaltending, so it’s natural we’d be poking around. Did we look at it as an option? Yes. But the assumption we can make is that for the American guy who played minor league hockey in Texas coming to Calgary was probably not choice No. 1. And if he was, it was probably for a long time for a lot of dough.”

 

I'm more inclined to believe this .. knowing he negotiated once .. he balked at the the term and the $..and never made a serious effort to acquire him again after the draft last year 

[MAC331]

53 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

yup.. see my edit 

Or they could just give us Murray for Backlund. Bonino is a UFA and they really need any good defensemen they have right now.

[MAC331]

Just now, phoenix66 said:

Direct Quote from Treliving .. via Francis and the Calgary Herald:

 

“I’ve heard I’ve tried to get him three or four times, which isn’t correct,” said Treliving, who admittedly got permission to talk contract with Bishop before last year’s draft before opting for a Brian Elliott swap.

“We’re looking at goaltending, so it’s natural we’d be poking around. Did we look at it as an option? Yes. But the assumption we can make is that for the American guy who played minor league hockey in Texas coming to Calgary was probably not choice No. 1. And if he was, it was probably for a long time for a lot of dough.”

 

I'm more inclined to believe this .. knowing he negotiated once .. he balked at the the term and the $..and never made a serious effort to acquire him again after the draft last year 

Sounds about right

[phoenix66]

Just now, MAC331 said:

Or they could just give us Murray for Backlund. Bonino is a UFA and they really need any good defensemen they have right now.

again , you have to replace him..   tho I admit the ask will be higher, and bring a few more teams into play who woudl change their "need" should he become available. It woudl likely take something like that to happen 

[MAC331]

1 hour ago, phoenix66 said:

again , you have to replace him..   tho I admit the ask will be higher, and bring a few more teams into play who woudl change their "need" should he become available. It woudl likely take something like that to happen 

The more I think about this the more I think we should go hard after MAF and Grubauer just so everyone in our system keeps working hard on their development.

[travel_dude]

9 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

The more I think about this the more I think we should go hard after MAF and Grubauer just so everyone in our system keeps working hard on their development.

Grubauer is a pending RFA and Arbitration eligible.  Would only be able to trade for his rights.  Might get costly, though I don't know if he has much leverage.  Raanta has one year remaining.

[MAC331]

20 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

Grubauer is a pending RFA and Arbitration eligible.  Would only be able to trade for his rights.  Might get costly, though I don't know if he has much leverage.  Raanta has one year remaining.

I will that to BT to figure out. LOL

My hesitance with Raanta would be that he likes it in NY actually signed back on there fast. Maybe best he stays.

[travel_dude]

7 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

I will that to BT to figure out. LOL

My hesitance with Raanta would be that he likes it in NY actually signed back on there fast. Maybe best he stays.

 

I know, but Grubauer is not guaranteed to sign here.  Why wouldn't he?  $2m question.

[MAC331]

34 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

Grubauer is a pending RFA and Arbitration eligible.  Would only be able to trade for his rights.  Might get costly, though I don't know if he has much leverage.  Raanta has one year remaining.

If we got MAF I would be less concerned about the back up as there will be a few good ones available.