Goaltending

[travel_dude]

Yes there is. We need 1 of the best backups available.

He usually starts less than 50 % of the games so we might need a 1A/1B situation where the other 1/2 is proven as well (that means Ortio doesn't fit the bill).

 

But his cap hit allows us to sign/trade for a former starter to carry the rest of the load. His heaviest load was 48 games & his #s dropped.

If you have a starter capable of 50ish or more games without burning out all you need is a trustworthy backup. But when the backup plays 1/2 the games the starter is that in name only.

 

This might be the spot we tell Reimer that #1 is his if he earns it but we won't pay him more than the 2.5 x 1 to keep the ice equal. The 1 that does best gets a bigger contract as undisputed #1 & the other might/might not be re-signed.

 

I think there is a bit of a misconception about Elliott.  He has always been the 1a/1b goalie on the Blues.  This year Allen was the 1a. Last year he was the 1a, but they gave the playoffs to Allen.  The year before he was 1b behind Halak, then they brought in Miller. Before that he was 1b.

 

That's not to say he can handle 60 games, but I think he will gets starts more frequently here.  

 

Not to snib Ortio, but we need at least a good backup that can play cold and win.  The backup isn't going to get a bunch of games in a row to stay consistent.  That is the reason why I wonder if we still need to look.

[cross16]

I'm thinking Elliott should play around 50 games. I would personally lean towards ortio playing the other 30. I won't be upset or anything if they do but I think ortio deserve the shot. I don't think i would trade for anyone unless it was someone like Coreau or Grabbauer that has a future and don't give up much. Not opposed to Connor Hutton if they go the ufa route.

But I'd let ortio have it.

[kehatch]

I'm thinking Elliott should play around 50 games. I would personally lean towards ortio playing the other 30. I won't be upset or anything if they do but I think ortio deserve the shot. I don't think i would trade for anyone unless it was someone like Coreau or Grabbauer that has a future and don't give up much. Not opposed to Connor Hutton if they go the ufa route.

But I'd let ortio have it.

One of the media types (can't remember who) was suggesting that if the Flames got a workhorse like Bishop Ortio would stay. But if the got a guy like Elliott or Reimer then the Flames would be looking for a backup. I kind of agree with that, but I won't be upset if Ortio gets the shot.

[LouCifer]

I'm pretty happy with the draft and Elliott pickup. I said in an earlier post that Treliving may be trying to pick up a goalie on a one year term so that we're sitting pretty once again at the expansion draft with options in goal. I really like the way BT operates.

That said, I do think Reimer would round out an excellent tandem for us at a similar cap hit... Though, I wonder about how Elliott would respond to once again being in a 1a / 1b situation. Last season Hiller never got over the flames re-signing Ramo...

Wow. Fun times in flame land! And JJ is feeling somewhat "happy" with the goaltending too!

[FlamesLogic]

CHad Johnson fits as a guy to challenge ortio

[LouCifer]

I also want to add that I like that BT didn't allow Rutherford to corner him with Fleury. In fact, I'm excited to see how this Penguins goaltending fiasco is going to play out this season and with the expansion draft since Rutherford gambled big time.

[travel_dude]

One of the media types (can't remember who) was suggesting that if the Flames got a workhorse like Bishop Ortio would stay. But if the got a guy like Elliott or Reimer then the Flames would be looking for a backup. I kind of agree with that, but I won't be upset if Ortio gets the shot.

 

I tend to think that Ortio is not good unless he gets a bunch of starts together.  I'm not sure that the Flames can wait for him to be consistent.  He's typically (some might disagree) shown to be a slow starter in the fall, be it AHL or NHL.  I think that there is an interest in someone else out there.  Might be the wrong time to get one, though.  I am at least very happy with the Elliott trade.

 

I also want to add that I like that BT didn't allow Rutherford to corner him with Fleury. In fact, I'm excited to see how this Penguins goaltending fiasco is going to play out this season and with the expansion draft since Rutherford gambled big time.

 

JR can suck on it.  He had his chance to eliminate some cap, lose a dressing room distraction, and now may lose Murray for nothing in the upcoming expansion.  

 

With Bishop, I think that the re-signing number scared CGY off.  They were in-like-Flynn and had a viable deal with the Bolts when they talked to Bishop.  After that, the talks dried up in a big hurry.  

 

Worse case scenario for the Flames is that Elliott has a less than stellar season, they make a trade for Vasilevskiy for less than par value.  They protect Vasilevskiy and sign Elliott is he goes unclaimed, assuming that is something they even want to do.  There will be 29 other goalies available. 

[kehatch]

CHad Johnson fits as a guy to challenge ortio

Hutton is another. Though I would prefer to go for a younger guy like Kuemper who has a chance to mature into a starter.

[phoenix66]

One of the media types (can't remember who) was suggesting that if the Flames got a workhorse like Bishop Ortio would stay. But if the got a guy like Elliott or Reimer then the Flames would be looking for a backup. I kind of agree with that, but I won't be upset if Ortio gets the shot.

I can see this going either way. His prev workload was based on circumstances (backup, platoon etc) when Corey Hirsch was talking about him tonight he mentioned he can definitely handle 60 games.

I think Elliot gets the bulk, and Ortio gets the backup nod. As tempting as grabbing an experienced backup is like Enroth, Montoya etc) I think the flames will use that spot as a development spot. 20-25 games, he starts dropping the ball, he will be easy to replace.

What ive heard about Elliots work ethic and compete level i think will be good for Ortio

Reimer is definitely not in the picture now

In terms of the other options, cant blame Bishop one bit for wanting his 7x7 as reported, hes earned it but glad we chose to avoid it.

I feel sorry for Fleury, but hope Rutherford chokes on his NMC when Vegas takes Murray

[JTech780]

I can see this going either way. His prev workload was based on circumstances (backup, platoon etc) when Corey Hirsch was talking about him tonight he mentioned he can definitely handle 60 games.

I think Elliot gets the bulk, and Ortio gets the backup nod. As tempting as grabbing an experienced backup is like Enroth, Montoya etc) I think the flames will use that spot as a development spot. 20-25 games, he starts dropping the ball, he will be easy to replace.

What ive heard about Elliots work ethic and compete level i think will be good for Ortio

Reimer is definitely not in the picture now

In terms of the other options, cant blame Bishop one bit for wanting his 7x7 as reported, hes earned it but glad we chose to avoid it.

I feel sorry for Fleury, but hope Rutherford chokes on his NMC when Vegas takes Murray

 

We could still be looking at Fleury next offseason.

[cccsberg]

I can see this going either way. His prev workload was based on circumstances (backup, platoon etc) when Corey Hirsch was talking about him tonight he mentioned he can definitely handle 60 games.

I think Elliot gets the bulk, and Ortio gets the backup nod. As tempting as grabbing an experienced backup is like Enroth, Montoya etc) I think the flames will use that spot as a development spot. 20-25 games, he starts dropping the ball, he will be easy to replace.

What ive heard about Elliots work ethic and compete level i think will be good for Ortio

Reimer is definitely not in the picture now

In terms of the other options, cant blame Bishop one bit for wanting his 7x7 as reported, hes earned it but glad we chose to avoid it.

I feel sorry for Fleury, but hope Rutherford chokes on his NMC when Vegas takes Murray

In the draft interviews BT made several comments about how he really likes Ortio which seemed to indicate at the least that re-signing him as our backup is a given, unless they can find someone better at a cheap cost.

 

Having both goalies at a total of around $3.5mm really opens up the possibilities for signing a tough, veteran RW like say a Brouwer, Okposo or even Ericsson.  Any of those guys would be a great fit for the Flames 1RW, while Tkachuk/Pribyl learn the ropes and fight it out for 2RW with Bennett.

[travel_dude]

In the draft interviews BT made several comments about how he really likes Ortio which seemed to indicate at the least that re-signing him as our backup is a given, unless they can find someone better at a cheap cost.

 

Having both goalies at a total of around $3.5mm really opens up the possibilities for signing a tough, veteran RW like say a Brouwer, Okposo or even Ericsson.  Any of those guys would be a great fit for the Flames 1RW, while Tkachuk/Pribyl learn the ropes and fight it out for 2RW with Bennett.

 

The pre-draft comments are just that.  He didn't know he was getting Elliott.  With Bishop, you can roll with Ortio as the backup, but with Elliott, you need someone that may need a bigger workload.

 

Forget about the cap space created; it was a fluke.  Any vet brought in will have to be on a reasonable contract, not a big overpay at FA.

[MAC331]

The pre-draft comments are just that.  He didn't know he was getting Elliott.  With Bishop, you can roll with Ortio as the backup, but with Elliott, you need someone that may need a bigger workload.

 

Forget about the cap space created; it was a fluke.  Any vet brought in will have to be on a reasonable contract, not a big overpay at FA.

When would be a good time to advance Ortio into more games in your opinion ?

[robrob1974]

The pre-draft comments are just that. He didn't know he was getting Elliott. With Bishop, you can roll with Ortio as the backup, but with Elliott, you need someone that may need a bigger workload.

Forget about the cap space created; it was a fluke. Any vet brought in will have to be on a reasonable contract, not a big overpay at FA.

I think it depends because after next season they have to upgrade or re-sign Elliott at a higher cap hit. I guess there will be a few salaries off the book next year.

[phoenix66]

When would be a good time to advance Ortio into more games in your opinion ?

Thats easy..on the fly. We saw last year he could go about 3-4 in a row before hed start to slip noticeably.

Unlike Bobs schedule, I dont think you go into a season with the games picked, you keep feeding him games when Elliot needs a break and his play determines when and how many more he gets.

If it starts turning into a Hiller situation where you know ahead of time its likely to be a loss, then the amount of quality backup options to replace him will be large

Im not worried..

[travel_dude]

When would be a good time to advance Ortio into more games in your opinion ?

 

I think you have to look at the available market this summer and see what there is.  I think you qualify him just to retain his rights, but I would hold off signing until you do the due diligence of exploring options.  Burke said that he has earned a look in camp, so they may not go beyond that until then.  Maybe bring a guy in on a PTO? 

 

As it stands, we have Elliott, Ortio, Gillies, Rittich, and MacDonald.  If a really good backup is available for next to nothing, then you walk away from Ortio; he will not be fighting Elliott for the starter job. 

 

Really my only issues about Ortio are his slow start and seeming to need to play games in bunches.  If he is the backup out of camp, then you give him 2 out if 6 games.  Keep him relatively fresh.  

 

As Phoenix says, maybe you just go into the season with him as the backup and see if he can win more than 50% of his starts.  If so, keep him.  If not, look at the myriad of other options.  I would like to see the two new Heat goalies (Mac and Rittich) alternate between the ECHL and AHL to get more reps in.  I don't want them to go to Gillies for an NHL injury replacement.

[MAC331]

I think you have to look at the available market this summer and see what there is.  I think you qualify him just to retain his rights, but I would hold off signing until you do the due diligence of exploring options.  Burke said that he has earned a look in camp, so they may not go beyond that until then.  Maybe bring a guy in on a PTO? 

 

As it stands, we have Elliott, Ortio, Gillies, Rittich, and MacDonald.  If a really good backup is available for next to nothing, then you walk away from Ortio; he will not be fighting Elliott for the starter job. 

 

Really my only issues about Ortio are his slow start and seeming to need to play games in bunches.  If he is the backup out of camp, then you give him 2 out if 6 games.  Keep him relatively fresh.  

 

As Phoenix says, maybe you just go into the season with him as the backup and see if he can win more than 50% of his starts.  If so, keep him.  If not, look at the myriad of other options.  I would like to see the two new Heat goalies (Mac and Rittich) alternate between the ECHL and AHL to get more reps in.  I don't want them to go to Gillies for an NHL injury replacement.

Judging goalies such as Ortio (not just Ortio) on such small samples and to say he trends like this or that is unreliable IMO. Evaluators will tell you he has the ability or he doesn't, you either provide the opportunity to see more or you go for experience to back up what you have in place. Maybe they want someone with a tad more experience such as Kuemper or Kinkaid experienced keepers that have done more in a back up role. It wouldn't surprise me if they do something like this and let Ortio decide if he stays and plays in the AHL or he returns to Europe. Should he stay we strengthen up our goalie pipeline.

[jjgallow]

For all my complaining.....   I have to say:

 

I think the Flames nailed it with Tyler Parsons.

 

 

I know he's on a great team, BUT in this case I really do believe that he was a big part of what made that team great.   And I think this year had an uncharacteristically strong batch of North American Goalies.

 

Of goalies in this draft, I had him and Carter Hart ranked as the top 2 (very hard to say which was better).

 

The Flames did well here.  And I'm excited to see where it goes.

[travel_dude]

For all my complaining.....   I have to say:

 

I think the Flames nailed it with Tyler Parsons.

 

 

I know he's on a great team, BUT in this case I really do believe that he was a big part of what made that team great.   And I think this year had an uncharacteristically strong batch of North American Goalies.

 

Of goalies in this draft, I had him and Carter Hart ranked as the top 2 (very hard to say which was better).

 

The Flames did well here.  And I'm excited to see where it goes.

 

What do you think the Flames should do regarding a backup for this season?  I know you have brought up a lot of goalie ideas, but wondered if you still think Ortio is the best plan for a backup?  Do you think he needs a bigger workload to be successful or are you ok with him starting less than 30 games?  Or do you think there is a viable 30 game guy out there we should be targeting?

 

BTW, I am thankful we didn't get MAF.  He would have been more expensive than Elliott.  The Pengie bloggers are feeling they made a huge mistake and will pay for it.  Dallas seems to be out now as an option.

[StarkRaving]

I'm very pleased with the Elliott pick up.  On one of these threads, I said it'd be nice to get a UFA on a one year contract.  The cost of getting Elliott for one year is probably cheaper than a UFA like Reimer would've been, and we would've had to give him term.

 

The Flames are a better team today than they were a few days ago.  More importantly, I think BT has positioned himself to be very active next year when some of the bad contracts come of the books and the expansion draft jockeying starts.

 

I like the Parsons pick.  It's hard to gauge him because he was on an exceptional team, but he's statistically excellent.

[jjgallow]

What do you think the Flames should do regarding a backup for this season?  I know you have brought up a lot of goalie ideas, but wondered if you still think Ortio is the best plan for a backup?  Do you think he needs a bigger workload to be successful or are you ok with him starting less than 30 games?  Or do you think there is a viable 30 game guy out there we should be targeting?

 

BTW, I am thankful we didn't get MAF.  He would have been more expensive than Elliott.  The Pengie bloggers are feeling they made a huge mistake and will pay for it.  Dallas seems to be out now as an option.

 

I'm with you on MAF, that would have been a disaster.  And quite frankly, Elliot is just a WAY better goalie. 

 

And Then there's Salary...

 

We got what might be the best goalie in the NHL right now, at a bargain basement salary, for a 2nd round pick.

 

Even I have to overlook the age (given his continuous improvement in performance), and be impressed.

 

 

With regards to Ortio, I'm totally fine with him in the role.   Gillies has the greater upside at this time, so you want him hogging minutes in the AHL.    Ortio still has upside, and may surprise us all this year.   But we don't Need him to now.

 

I do think that Ortio should be groomed to be an NHL starter.  Whether he ever gets there or not, is hard to say.    But if it becomes clear that it's out of reach, then I think that's when you start calling Gillies up (or bringing in someone else to groom).

 

I think Elliot CAN handle a lot of games, but that doesn't mean he Has to.  If a goalie steps up (Ortio, Gillies, or other...)....they should be given that opportunity.   And if they don't step up, you do have to cut ties at some point (25, 26 years of age) to make room.

[andymo]

I think we should go with Ortio as backup. His NHL opportunities have been limited and in difficult situations. Had a great 5 game run then didn't get a look in for 12 months. Go with him as your backup from Day 1 and give him the opportunity to prove himself. You need to back him after the debacle last summer. He may be a genuine starter in 2-3 years or he may be a decent backup or career AHLer in 1. Time to find out...

[DirtyDeeds]

I can see this going either way. His prev workload was based on circumstances (backup, platoon etc) when Corey Hirsch was talking about him tonight he mentioned he can definitely handle 60 games.

I think Elliot gets the bulk, and Ortio gets the backup nod. As tempting as grabbing an experienced backup is like Enroth, Montoya etc) I think the flames will use that spot as a development spot. 20-25 games, he starts dropping the ball, he will be easy to replace.

What ive heard about Elliots work ethic and compete level i think will be good for Ortio

Reimer is definitely not in the picture now

In terms of the other options, cant blame Bishop one bit for wanting his 7x7 as reported, hes earned it but glad we chose to avoid it.

I feel sorry for Fleury, but hope Rutherford chokes on his NMC when Vegas takes Murray

Now phoenix no need to be bitter. I think we got the better goalie of the two and the better fit. The price was way too high and Pens want to keep both their goalies for next year.

 

There is a bad karma associated with hoping such things on people.. We did just fine the picks we gave up won't kill us and the $$ are near perfect.

[JTech780]

I don't see Ortio being anything more than a borderline goalie at the NHL level. 

 

I would still like to see Calgary make something happen with Washington to get Grubauer, who I see as having starter potential, he just needs more games.

[DirtyDeeds]

In the draft interviews BT made several comments about how he really likes Ortio which seemed to indicate at the least that re-signing him as our backup is a given, unless they can find someone better at a cheap cost.

 

Having both goalies at a total of around $3.5mm really opens up the possibilities for signing a tough, veteran RW like say a Brouwer, Okposo or even Ericsson.  Any of those guys would be a great fit for the Flames 1RW, while Tkachuk/Pribyl learn the ropes and fight it out for 2RW with Bennett.

I have not heard from anyone that signing Ortio as a back is a given. I think BT sees our development with Ortio is not complete and he is not done with POrtio but I have heard nothing to indicate him as our backup.

 

Add to this he has not re-signed Ortio yet.... what does that tell you?