travel_dude Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 I just don't see Reimer costing much due to it being the worst time to go UFA as a goalie. I agree though, I said in the previous post that that doesn't fix things, but it gives Ortio more games, which we all know he needs to perform... We also know Reimer has a history of being pretty good in short bursts as well. But that creates a goaltending two-headed monster. Ortio didn't do well enough this season to warrant getting a lot more games. Win one, lose one is not a recipe for success. A lot of the wins came at the end of the season against non-playoff teams in semi-tank mode. There were a few really good games against the Pengies and Nashville, while the rest were against the Pacific losers and Winnipeg. If we end up with Elliott then Reimer is a legit option via UFA as I don't see Elliot playing more than 45 games. Maybe. Elliott has received the short end of the stick in STL. He should be playing more than 43 games. They are trending towards giving Allen more starts, while Elliott put up superior numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob1974 Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 Ortio didn't do well enough this season to warrant getting a lot more games. Win one, lose one is not a recipe for success. A lot of the wins came at the end of the season against non-playoff teams in semi-tank mode. There were a few really good games against the Pengies and Nashville, while the rest were against the Pacific losers and Winnipeg. Maybe. Elliott has received the short end of the stick in STL. He should be playing more than 43 games. They are trending towards giving Allen more starts, while Elliott put up superior numbers. Although, Ortio gave the team a chance to win. The wins stats aren't there, but i would take most of Ortio's losses over most of Hiller's wins and games last year. Winning 6-5 maybe a win, but Hiller won in spite of his performances. But then, with Ortio, it's the same argument you can use when we mention Colborne. Ortio got a lot of his games when it didn't matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LouCifer Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 2 Things. 1. The Leaf situation. The Leafs acquired Bernier from the Kings at a time when they were the #1 or #2 defensive team in the league. Bernier's stats were inflated as a result, and the Leafs paid top dollar for them. Bernier crumbled under the Leafs porous defense. Reimer, however, played amazing behind a porous defense. So much so, that the Leafs refused to play him because he would help them win games they had no business being in, hurting their chances of finishing LAST and getting the FIRST OVERALL pick. Let's also add that Leafs management would look like they ADMITTEDLY made a mistake aquiring Bernier if they played Reimer over him... politics at play here people. Reimer is a much better goalie than a lot of you believe. In fact, take a look at point #2! 2. Here's an article written by a Penguins blogger about their goaltending situation. So if anyhting, a Penguins bias. Interesting how he compares Reimer's war-on-ice stats to MAF and realizes they're pretty equal... it's good to read the other perspective too. Here you go: http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Ryan-Wilson/Updating-Marc-Andre-Fleury-Situation/177/77664 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 Although, Ortio gave the team a chance to win. The wins stats aren't there, but i would take most of Ortio's losses over most of Hiller's wins and games last year. Winning 6-5 maybe a win, but Hiller won in spite of his performances. But then, with Ortio, it's the same argument you can use when we mention Colborne. Ortio got a lot of his games when it didn't matter. That was my point about Ortio. Both players improved at the end of the season, but mostly when we were already out. Ortio was solid in nets most of the time. He wasn't really any better than Ramo before his injury. Unfortunately, until we get a goalie, Twitter will be full of fake tweets from insiders. The Bishop one is suspect, but the sourtce is real and not a rumor monger. The other ones out there are a hoot. Bennett + 6th overal for Bishop. Brodie + 6th for MAF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andymo Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 Despite the posturing, I think Wideman and Matt Murray for MAF is a pretty good deal for Pittsburgh. Vasilevskiy is a very good young player coming off an ELC who should be inexpensive to resign. Tampa have no need to trade him so we would likely have to tempt them with tasty a bargain which makes it tough to come out even Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 He has one year left on his contract. Didn't answer the question because it all depends on what kind of season he has in CGY. A playoff appearance gets him $4m+. A middling season gets him a bridge contract. As an aside, reports are out there we are working on a deal for Bishop. Hope one of the pieces going back is Wideman or Bouma or Stajan or Engelland, to help with the cap impact. Sorry but I just don't see the contracts we need to unload as being part of any deal for a premier goalie so why even try to muddy the waters ? Given what ANA got for Andersen why would BT not offer the same type of deal using two of our 2nd round picks and keep it clean ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 The thing is, all I hear on radio shows is how Calgary have options. I say no and take my chances with Reimer... If that's the price... If Schneider was worth 9th or 10th overall, who has more worth? He or Fleury? Schneider by a long shot. Better goalie and in an age range where you get him in his prime. Your are getting Fleury towrads the end of this prime which lowers his value. I"m not shocked the Pens are asking for 6 its called a neogitation. Aim high, but there arnt' getting a first round pick from anyone in the league so if that's what they are looking for then they are prepared to wait it out and either trade him at the deadline or before the expansion draft next year. I think Reimer is back in the conversation as a legitimate option for next season. With how the goalie market is shaking out I just don't see him getting a big term or money deal. There are lots of teams that could offer him a tandem but what are you going to pay for that? for 4-5 million. I think he is likely looking at a shorter term deal in the 2-3 year range and probably no more than 4 million. That's a decent deal for him IMO so he is a decent backup option should the trades not work out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamesfan89forever Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 Is any goalie available worth our #6 pick or can we assume it is safe. What do we give up to ensure we have a viable #1 goalie for this year. Is Reimer really a forseable option, or do we pursue MAF via trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 Is any goalie available worth our #6 pick or can we assume it is safe. What do we give up to ensure we have a viable #1 goalie for this year. Is Reimer really a forseable option, or do we pursue MAF via trade. There isn't a goalie in the league I think you give up the 6th overal pick for and yes that includes Carey Price. I am pretty confident in saying the chances the Flames trade there 6th overal pick for a goalie are less than 1%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob1974 Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 If Carey Price wasn't injured, he would probably be worth the #6. Being (probably) the best goalie in the world. But that injury scares me. I agree no one is worth that much now. Everyone who would be is not in an age range I am willing to trade for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 If Carey Price wasn't injured, he would probably be worth the #6. Being (probably) the best goalie in the world. But that injury scares me. I agree no one is worth that much now. Everyone who would be is not in an age range I am willing to trade for. Skill level yes, but his cap hit and future contract would destry the Flames cap and I don't belive they can make it worth witht he contracts they have and will need to do in the near future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 There isn't a goalie in the league I think you give up the 6th overal pick for and yes that includes Carey Price. I am pretty confident in saying the chances the Flames trade there 6th overal pick for a goalie are less than 1%. Schneider went for a 9th overall. Certainly Price fetches #6. Price alone is worth 5 first round picks as is. If Montreal wanted #6 for Price, you thank them and blow bubbles for them on their walk up to the draft podium. If Carey Price wasn't injured, he would probably be worth the #6. Being (probably) the best goalie in the world. But that injury scares me. I agree no one is worth that much now. Everyone who would be is not in an age range I am willing to trade for. Skill level yes, but his cap hit and future contract would destry the Flames cap and I don't belive they can make it worth witht he contracts they have and will need to do in the near future.Are you the same ones saying #4 overall isn't enough for Hamonic straight up? And now saying you would not trade the #6 overall for the best goalie in the world? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 Schneider went for a 9th overall. Certainly Price fetches #6. Price alone is worth 5 first round picks as is. If Montreal wanted #6 for Price, you thank them and blow bubbles for them on their walk up to the draft podium. Are you the same ones saying #4 overall isn't enough for Hamonic straight up? And now saying you would not trade the #6 overall for the best goalie in the world? I'm not saying it's not a fair deal i'm saying I personally would not do it. I'm not trading for a goalie who has 2 more years on his deal and then is going to need to be resigned at probably close to 8 million per year. Between Johnny, Mony, Price, Gio alone they would have half their cap tied up and that's not even getting into Bennett etc. It's about asset management for me and I don't really find value in trading the 6th overal pick for a goalie. Is Price substantially better than say Fleury? Vasivlevsky etc? the gap from the top goalie down to a very good goalie isn't that large. however, the drop for a top line forward down to an avg 2nd liner is pretty big. I'd rather build a complete team Edit: My bad I forgot Holtby signed an extension for the next 4 year so if we want to get technically I would give up the 6OA for him but it wouldn't happen so its pretty irrelevant anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyerfan52 Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 Dallas could use a starter, they could get rid of Lehtonen or Niemi to a team that can afford a high priced backup like Buffalo. Both contracts are 2 years so it is not a long term commitment which will give Buffalo time to groom a backup. With what Dallas gave up for Kris Russell they are in a win now mode and will probably over pay for MAF if they chose. I could see Dallas moving their 1st rd pick and a prospect for MAF, and give Buffalo or what ever other team a choice of the two of their goalies for a mid level pick. Good thought about Buffalo as they have cap space & feel their rebuild is over so it's time to go for it. Lehner is a good goalie but is often injured so a 2nd NHL goalie in tandem gives them a better chance. @ 2.25 he's making backup money compared to others considered #1s. But, Lehtonen carries a 5.9 x 2 hit so Bishop @ the same price (but less term by a year) or MAF @ 5.75 (@ 1 more year term) are better deals. Niemi @ 4.5 is slightly cheaper but IMO if the Sabres decide it's time they'll use their cap space/assets for the best goalie available. An extra 1.4 from their 20+ million in cap with Ristolainen as the 1 must re-sign & a few other RFAs that don't need as big a raise they are sitting pretty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob1974 Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 Skill level yes, but his cap hit and future contract would destry the Flames cap and I don't belive they can make it worth witht he contracts they have and will need to do in the near future. I get what you're saying, I am just saying on paper he is worth it and more. I don't want him for your same reasons. It's the same with Subban, too high of a cap hit. I wish the league would go top salary and if you win the cup get bonuses for the star players. I think over 8m is too high for cap reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyerfan52 Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 I get what you're saying, I am just saying on paper he is worth it and more. I don't want him for your same reasons. It's the same with Subban, too high of a cap hit. I wish the league would go top salary and if you win the cup get bonuses for the star players. I think over 8m is too high for cap reasons. But the best will always be paid bigger $s even if it means he gets surrounded by cheaper spear carriers. It also shows the worth of drafting well so you have dang good players on those ELCs to keep the cap down. As to the $8 million, Gaudreau & Monahan will be within spitting distance of that after they re-up. The league has already capped top salary as no player can earn more than 20% of the cap. & the teams closest to the SC all get bonuses with the winner of course getting the biggest bonuses. I think it's the top 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 Sorry but I just don't see the contracts we need to unload as being part of any deal for a premier goalie so why even try to muddy the waters ? Given what ANA got for Andersen why would BT not offer the same type of deal using two of our 2nd round picks and keep it clean ? I wasn't trying to muddy the waters. Tampa is not just looking for picks. They would want at least one roster player back. Maybe the combo of prospects and picks is enough, but I suspect they want at least a role player. Bouma gives them some size. They have a few smaller players. Wideman provides scoring from the backend. Hedman and Stralman represent the bulk of the D scoring. They need some more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 I'm not saying it's not a fair deal i'm saying I personally would not do it. I'm not trading for a goalie who has 2 more years on his deal and then is going to need to be resigned at probably close to 8 million per year. Between Johnny, Mony, Price, Gio alone they would have half their cap tied up and that's not even getting into Bennett etc. It's about asset management for me and I don't really find value in trading the 6th overal pick for a goalie. Is Price substantially better than say Fleury? Vasivlevsky etc? the gap from the top goalie down to a very good goalie isn't that large. however, the drop for a top line forward down to an avg 2nd liner is pretty big. I'd rather build a complete team Edit: My bad I forgot Holtby signed an extension for the next 4 year so if we want to get technically I would give up the 6OA for him but it wouldn't happen so its pretty irrelevant anyway. Price is a core piece. Adding him to Johnny, Monahan, Bennett, and Giordano gives the Flames the ideal 2C, 1W, 1D, 1G core make-up. Position wise, Goaltending is WAY more important than a RW or another forward we draft with our #6. Pittsburgh put all their eggs in a few baskets and filled out the rest of the roster with value contracts. Chicago did it too. It works. Gone will be those $3 to $5-mil mid-tier guys but again, it works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamesfan89forever Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 Ok so our #6 isn't in play for a goalie. Was our goaltending that bad or did we just have a bad defensive system that led us to the worse GAA in the league. That being said how do we get a bonified #1 goalie without mortgaging the future. Or do we find a #2 goalie and hope for the best. What teams are looking to dump a goalie if there is an expansion draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBTC-FLAMES-EDITION Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 If we all knew right now that Reimer could give us NHL averages in GAA and Save % over 60-65 games this season do you automatically sign him or wait and trade for one of the other goalies likely to be available but for players and/or draft picks. I'd say maybe a 1-year 4-5 million deal might do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 Price is a core piece. Adding him to Johnny, Monahan, Bennett, and Giordano gives the Flames the ideal 2C, 1W, 1D, 1G core make-up. Position wise, Goaltending is WAY more important than a RW or another forward we draft with our #6. Pittsburgh put all their eggs in a few baskets and filled out the rest of the roster with value contracts. Chicago did it too. It works. Gone will be those $3 to $5-mil mid-tier guys but again, it works. Pittsburgh and Chicago both paid about 6.5 for their goaltending. With Price, your probably paying 8.5 or more after next season. Add 2 million to Chicago/Pitttsburgh you have a different story. Anyway, this is a bit of a pointless argument becuase price isn't being traded. The main point i am trying to make is to me cap is all about allocating dollars and I don't agree with allocating so many dollars to the goalie position. I think you can get championship calibre goaltending for less than 7-8 million and I also think you need high end talent to win a cup more then elite goaltending. What's the most realistic window for the flames to contend? 2-3 years probably right? Well the 6th overal pick has a great chance of being an exteme value contract in 2-3 years as they will still be on their ELC. That's a real key piece for me in contending for a cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 Renaud Lavoie (@renlavoietva) tweeted at 4:00 PM on Tue, Jun 21, 2016: As you know Flames are looking for a goaltender and #avalanche Semyon Varlamov is a goalie they're looking at. Renaud Lavoie (@renlavoietva) tweeted at 4:01 PM on Tue, Jun 21, 2016: Don't know yet if Varlamov is really on the market. #tvasports I like Varlamov. He has good term, he is in his prime, he is a good goalie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 6th and 56th for 10th and Varlamov. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 Ah......the reality of it all. All the bright ideas on here, slamming against a concrete wall of facts. Sometimes, the risk of going with a few young goalies, IS preferable than dangling 6th overall picks. gsus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meatpuppet42 Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 I've been thinking the same thing Phoenix. In fact, If I'm BT, I'm not rushing to make a deal for a goalie... I'd stretch it out longer. I'd wait until the end of the summer if I have to. Make Rutherford sweat. Make him have to have conversations with Fleury, convincing him to play backup or waive his NMC exposing him to a team like Vegas for next season. Or, have conversations with Murray about preparing to be exposed if Fleury refuses to waive his NMC. Make him think about going into the 2016-2017 season with both goalies having that hanging over their heads, and the players in the room knowing the situation. The media attention that would get all year... let Rutherford think about that. Rutherford wants our 6th overall to save himself from losing one of his 2 goalies for nothing? Ha! Beggars can't be choosers. Put Rutherford in the hot seat and let him sweat it out this whole summer about his goaltending situation and the crappy conversations he's going to have to have with both goalies. His price will come down significantly. Calgary is sitting pretty being one of, if not the only, team looking for a starter. Counteroffer 6th round pick in 2017. Or good luck when the expansion comes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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