Goaltending

[kehatch]

Your point #5 is one of the biggest reasons to keep him, they can still trade him after the season and before the expansion draft.

I agree they don't have to trade him and I agree that gives them more leverage in a trade. I estimated it would cost us two seconds and a B prospect to acquire him and I still stand by that.

But I do think trading him makes sense. It's tough to pay your backup 5.5 million and the longer they hold onto Fleury the more his value will go down (especially if he is playing backup.)

A deadline deal makes little sense. Teams don't trade for term at the deadline and teams will have their starter. Plus Pittsburgh will be a contender and trading Fleury in the season is a change / distraction they don't need. Do they really want to risk a narrow window between the season ending and the expansion draft?

Plus, they run the risk of not being able to trade him. He will be a 5.5 million dollar backup next season and teams like Calgary are going to move to another option if he isn't available this summer. He could get hurt. He may be more likely to refuse to waivers is NMC since he isn't facing a year as a backup (Pittsburgh would be forced to move Murray freeing the starter position up.) It would be a shame for Pittsburgh if they lost Murray because they are forced to protect Fleury.

[DirtyDeeds]

If I was Pens GM I certainly wouldn't ber anointing MM the #1 goalie next season.

 

He has a total of 13 regular season NHL games under his belt. That is not near enough to be able to say he would be ready for 60 or so games required from a NHL Starter goalies.

 

 

 

It was MAF who played well enough when the team wasn't, to keep them close enough in contention to get a playoff spot.

[jjgallow]

If I was Pens GM I certainly wouldn't ber anointing MM the #1 goalie next season.

 

He has a total of 13 regular season NHL games under his belt. That is not near enough to be able to say he would be ready for 60 or so games required from a NHL Starter goalies.

 

 

 

It was MAF who played well enough when the team wasn't, to keep them close enough in contention to get a playoff spot.

 

He won the cup.

[jjgallow]

Agostino and a 3rd rounder for Fleury PIT.

Wideman, Raymond and Ortio for Kinkaid NJD

DONE

 

I'm not entirely sure what Kinkaid is accomplishing now that Ortio isn't already accomplishing, at two years younger.   That's not an Ortio pump, just a fair comparison...IMHO, Ortio has more market value than Kinkaid, on his own.

 

I like the Fleury deal, if I don't think about salary.  Who picks up the tab on that?

[Khrox]

DD, he hasn't played 60+ games in the NHL regular season yet. He is still young, and still needs to prove himself. But Murray has played a lot. 31 games in AHL, 13 games NHL (44 games) and 21 in the playoffs (65 games) this year. Not to mention, winning record in AHL regular season, (20-9-1 (2.1 GAA, .931 Sv%)) NHL Regular season (9-2-1 2.00 GAA .930 Sv%)) and Playoffs (15-6 2.08 GAA .923 Sv%). Those aren't bad numbers. I doubt they annoint him straight away as their #1, but if I were them, I'd trade MAF and try to get a someone else who may be available for a Cam Ward type contract in case Murray falters.

[Meatpuppet42]

I agree they don't have to trade him and I agree that gives them more leverage in a trade. I estimated it would cost us two seconds and a B prospect to acquire him and I still stand by that.

But I do think trading him makes sense. It's tough to pay your backup 5.5 million and the longer they hold onto Fleury the more his value will go down (especially if he is playing backup.)

A deadline deal makes little sense. Teams don't trade for term at the deadline and teams will have their starter. Plus Pittsburgh will be a contender and trading Fleury in the season is a change / distraction they don't need. Do they really want to risk a narrow window between the season ending and the expansion draft?

Plus, they run the risk of not being able to trade him. He will be a 5.5 million dollar backup next season and teams like Calgary are going to move to another option if he isn't available this summer. He could get hurt. He may be more likely to refuse to waivers is NMC since he isn't facing a year as a backup (Pittsburgh would be forced to move Murray freeing the starter position up.) It would be a shame for Pittsburgh if they lost Murray because they are forced to protect Fleury.

If they don't trade him soon they probably never will.   What team is going to play all of next season and then give up on both of their goal tenders?  What team is going to trade for Fleury then protect him from the expansion?

Pittsburgh is trading from weakness if they don't take a bag of pucks for him they end up with nothing.

[MAC331]

I'm not entirely sure what Kinkaid is accomplishing now that Ortio isn't already accomplishing, at two years younger.   That's not an Ortio pump, just a fair comparison...IMHO, Ortio has more market value than Kinkaid, on his own.

 

I like the Fleury deal, if I don't think about salary.  Who picks up the tab on that?

An exchange of goalies may help both teams but if we want them to take some salary off our hands, we should ask for something decent back. Kinkaid has a slight amount of additional experience over Ortio, whether that makes us significantly better, perhaps only because Kinkaid has been a back up and should know how to keep himself prepared.

Fleury would be a good deal for the Flames but it isn't the only deal out there.

[phoenix66]

Its quickly becoming MAF or Reimer, as far as getting one who can honestly be called a starter.

We could go the "ready for graduation " route tho 

 

With Anaheim reportedly working on a new deal for Anderson , that tells me they aren't attempting to move him soon , unless it means Gibson might be available.

No other team except Pittsburgh I believe has to move on sooner than later .

A darkhorse candidate could still be Anderson from Ottawa though

[jjgallow]

We could go the "ready for graduation " route tho 

 

There are a lot of Fantastic goalies being held back right now.  I can only hope.

 

But if I were a betting man....I would guess that none of us are going to have our dreams realized.

 

They will do something.   But for those who are hoping for that big name, they may be dissapointed (name-wise, trade-wise, or salary-wise).   And for those of us looking for that next Matt Murray, we're even more likely to be dissapointed.

 

Hoping I'm proven wrong.   We'll probably find out during or shortly after the draft imho.

[travel_dude]

Its quickly becoming MAF or Reimer, as far as getting one who can honestly be called a starter.

We could go the "ready for graduation " route tho 

 

With Anaheim reportedly working on a new deal for Anderson , that tells me they aren't attempting to move him soon , unless it means Gibson might be available.

No other team except Pittsburgh I believe has to move on sooner than later .

A darkhorse candidate could still be Anderson from Ottawa though

 

I read where talks with Andersen are going nowhere.  They need him to sign for less than $3m, but no way does he do that.  They can't pay him his value, so they may be forced to trade him.  They still need to re-sign Lindholm, Rakkel and Pirri.  Lindholm isn't going to be cheap, though he may be a bridge deal to help financially.  

[phoenix66]

There are a lot of Fantastic goalies being held back right now.  I can only hope.

 

But if I were a betting man....I would guess that none of us are going to have our dreams realized.

 

They will do something.   But for those who are hoping for that big name, they may be dissapointed (name-wise, trade-wise, or salary-wise).   And for those of us looking for that next Matt Murray, we're even more likely to be dissapointed.

 

Hoping I'm proven wrong.   We'll probably find out during or shortly after the draft imho.

 

 

I know , i just cant help thinking he has to go for a no lose type.. cant afford to have one bomb, and if he does then nobody can be blamed. 

He(BT) needs the established name up front, then possibly the risk/ reward type in the wings.

If gets MAF for example, and he doesnt do well.. virtually nobody will pin that on BT cuz nobody saw it coming .. but if he gets say , a Kuemper for example, he'll be roasted for taking yet another chance on a non proven starter

[MAC331]

Its quickly becoming MAF or Reimer, as far as getting one who can honestly be called a starter.

We could go the "ready for graduation " route tho 

 

With Anaheim reportedly working on a new deal for Anderson , that tells me they aren't attempting to move him soon , unless it means Gibson might be available.

No other team except Pittsburgh I believe has to move on sooner than later .

A darkhorse candidate could still be Anderson from Ottawa though

I don't think OTT is in a position to trade Anderson unless they plan on bringing in another starter.

The one situation that has been on my mind is possibly Bernier from TOR should they be thinking about Howard from DET.

[phoenix66]

I don't think OTT is in a position to trade Anderson unless they plan on bringing in another starter.

The one situation that has been on my mind is possibly Bernier from TOR should they be thinking about Howard from DET.

 

They do have Hammond-- granted he had a bit of an off year , but hes still good enough they may see him as a high risk in the expansion draft.. all depends what confidence they have that O'connor can be a backup soon

 

i dont think anyone should be thinking of Howard from Detroit.. tho i did post that link earlier where you may see Toronto end up with Crawford.  Still don't want Bernier tho , not to hand him the keys to the starter job anyway 

[MAC331]

They do have Hammond-- granted he had a bit of an off year , but hes still good enough they may see him as a high risk in the expansion draft.. all depends what confidence they have that O'connor can be a backup soon

 

i dont think anyone should be thinking of Howard from Detroit.. tho i did post that link earlier where you may see Toronto end up with Crawford.  Still don't want Bernier tho , not to hand him the keys to the starter job anyway 

Was just a thought as most of TOR management will be familiar with Howard and want to make a change. Bernier needs a change of scenery.

[robrob1974]

He won the cup.

A lot of posters on here also point to Osgood, Crawford, Niemi as bad goalies who won the cup as well. Sure it is a good feat, but like Deeds said, 60+ games plus the playoffs is an entirely different beast.

I read where talks with Andersen are going nowhere. They need him to sign for less than $3m, but no way does he do that. They can't pay him his value, so they may be forced to trade him. They still need to re-sign Lindholm, Rakkel and Pirri. Lindholm isn't going to be cheap, though he may be a bridge deal to help financially.

How many games did Anderson play? I don't think he played many and I was quite surprised!

[cross16]

I know , i just cant help thinking he has to go for a no lose type.. cant afford to have one bomb, and if he does then nobody can be blamed. 

He(BT) needs the established name up front, then possibly the risk/ reward type in the wings.

If gets MAF for example, and he doesnt do well.. virtually nobody will pin that on BT cuz nobody saw it coming .. but if he gets say , a Kuemper for example, he'll be roasted for taking yet another chance on a non proven starter

 

I don't think Treliving operates that way, Burke deifnetly doesn't. 

 

Treliving fired the regining Jack Adams winner and convential wisdom would tell you he needed to get another veteran coach and he didn't. Convential wisdom tells you you don't trade one of your top 6 players, Glencross, when you are in the playoff mix, he did. Convential Wisdom tells you that when your best dman goes down and you are in the a playoff race you go out and replace him anyway you can, he didn't.

 

If anything i would argue the opposite, that Treliving will do what he feels is best for the team and NOT cater to getting a more "proven" starters just to satify his job nor will get a player that just alleviates a short term need at the price of long term future. That simply isn't how he has operated since being the GM so that is not a concern i share.

 

I actually won't be suprised if they acquire a lesser name that we arn't discussed. Someone like a Jared Coreau who they feel is ready to take the next step but needs a chance. 

[travel_dude]

A lot of posters on here also point to Osgood, Crawford, Niemi as bad goalies who won the cup as well. Sure it is a good feat, but like Deeds said, 60+ games plus the playoffs is an entirely different beast.

How many games did Anderson play? I don't think he played many and I was quite surprised!

 

43 regular season last year.  54 the year before.  Gibson played in 40 and 23 respectively.  Neither has a lengthy NHL career.

[travel_dude]

Toronto gets Andersen for a 30th.  Grrrr.

[kehatch]

Andersen traded to Toronto for a 30th and 2017 second. Not all that expensive. Next to come Fleury to Calgary.

[JTech780]

Andersen traded to Toronto for a 30th and 2017 second. Not all that expensive. Next to come Fleury to Calgary.

You can bet our price was significantly higher than that, making it more than I would pay for an average starter.

[kehatch]

You can our price was significantly higher than that, making it more than I would pay for an average starter.

Agreed. Anaheim was only trading in the division for a premium or if there weren't any other buyers.

[cross16]

I view this as good news, another goalie needy team off the market so Flames now have more options and likely lesser of a cost. Other then them and Dallas who is really going to looking at goalies hard this offseason?

 

I'm not a huge Anderson guy I don't think he is anything than an slightly above Average starter and if you think the equivilant of this deal for the Flames would be the 35th pick and their 2nd next year and that Anaheim would have wanted more to trade him in the division i'm glad they didn't bite. 

 

Edit: top it off it looks like Andersen's deal is 5 years long and 5 mill per or slightly over. That is alot of both term and cap hit for where he is in his career imo.

 

glad the Flames didn't get him at those 2 costs. 

[travel_dude]

Agreed. Anaheim was only trading in the division for a premium or if there weren't any other buyers.

 

At least it Takes Toronto out of the market now.  That leaves it open for MAF, Elliott, Bishop and Vasilevskiy without any really serious other offers.  Should be interesting to see who from that list is available.  Toronto's 1st from this year beat anything we could have offered, other than #6 overall.

[manu11]

I view this as good news, another goalie needy team off the market so Flames not have more options and likely lesser of a cost. Other then them and Dallas who is really going to looking at goalies hard this offseason?

 

I'm not a huge Anderson guy I don't think he is anything than an Average starter and if you think the equivilant of this deal for the Flames would be the 35th pick and their 2nd next year and that Anaheim would have wanted more to trade him in the division i'm glad they didn't bite. Plus Chris Johnston just said he thinks Anderson is asking for 4.5 to 5.5 in salary and that is pricey for me.

 

I think this worked out well for Calgary. 

 

I'm also not a huge fan of Andersen and happy we didn't pay the price for him.

I coud see Buffalo with some interest in a goalie, but not sure it would be high on their agenda.

 

I hope that lessens the cost.

[cross16]

I'm also not a huge fan of Andersen and happy we didn't pay the price for him.

I coud see Buffalo with some interest in a goalie, but not sure it would be high on their agenda.

 

I hope that lessens the cost.

 

Maybe, but they did give up a first round pick for Lehner who did play quite well when healthy last year and I think they'll want to protect him next year in the expansion draft. I agree they pick up a goalie I just don' tthink it will be a starter or someone who could be a starter

 

Some speculation out there that maybe this was a Jones situation of last year and they might flip him to Calgary, but Leafs have already come out and confirmed he is their guy and have signed him to an extension. 5 year deal, money not yet known.