Goaltending

[phoenix66]

But Allen has been pro long enough that the blues have to make a choice to protect one of them. It does not matter about RFA status, it only matters whether they have 2 seasons of pro experience.

Its not about choice its about logistics. Any team can sign a UFA, INCLUDING YOU

so by protecting the RFA Allen, you have the best chance to keep both.

If they expose Elliot, and he gets picked, so what?..

I think you will see many UFA players not resign until after July 1 next year (with their original teams)

[travel_dude]

Its not about choice its about logistics. Any team can sign a UFA, INCLUDING YOU

so by protecting the RFA Allen, you have the best chance to keep both.

If they expose Elliot, and he gets picked, so what?..

I think you will see many UFA players not resign until after July 1 next year (with their original teams)

 

I'm not sure what you are implying, but being a pending UFA has no bearing on whether they have to be protected or exposed. The proposed rules (not 100% agreed to yet) say you have to expose 25% of your salary cap.  You have to protect a player on a NMC, regardless of whether they have term remaining.  

[robrob1974]

His logic is that you protect the RFA, I guess Pheonix means that he'd take the gamble on the UFA.

If you want the UFA, an extension would probably be made or you'd trade him at the trade deadline.

[cccsberg]

I'm not sure what you are implying, but being a pending UFA has no bearing on whether they have to be protected or exposed. The proposed rules (not 100% agreed to yet) say you have to expose 25% of your salary cap.  You have to protect a player on a NMC, regardless of whether they have term remaining.  

The 25% rule is going to be very significant.  Sure, anyone can sign a UFA after July 1, but if you wait till the end you provide other teams with the opportunity to show love/$s that was only speculation before.  Not many guys re-sign with their old teams, even though they were able to.  I would expect that dragging the player along all through their last UFA season doesn't really engender a lot of happiness between the team and the player and by the time July 1st hits, players are looking elsewhere, especially if there is interest from other teams.

[LouCifer]

Bishop is UFA but the expansion draft purportedly would be before July 1 so he will be available.  An expansion team would be a fool not to pick him up and try to sign him or flip him to another team.  It is doubtful TBL would let him walk for nothing or give him up to the expansion draft....   But then again, that's what they are doing with Stamkos, so who knows?

 

I'd argue the opposite. They'd be fools to pickup a goalie on an expiring contract that has no loyalty to them whatsoever. If they nab him and he doesn't stick around... ouch! I don't see an expansion team throwing away a goalie pick on a soon to be UFA... heck, they could wait until the window before free agency to talk to Bishop about signing with them without using a pick on him.

[cccsberg]

I'd argue the opposite. They'd be fools to pickup a goalie on an expiring contract that has no loyalty to them whatsoever. If they nab him and he doesn't stick around... ouch! I don't see an expansion team throwing away a goalie pick on a soon to be UFA... heck, they could wait until the window before free agency to talk to Bishop about signing with them without using a pick on him.

Guess we'll disagree.  Unless the league goes ahead with expansion its all moot anyways.  I'd expected to have heard something by now, so the longer this delays the more likely it is not happening.

[kehatch]

Guess we'll disagree. Unless the league goes ahead with expansion its all moot anyways. I'd expected to have heard something by now, so the longer this delays the more likely it is not happening.

You won't hear anything until the playoffs are over. The league always tries to avoid announcements that distract from the playoffs.

[travel_dude]

You won't hear anything until the playoffs are over. The league always tries to avoid announcements that distract from the playoffs.

 

You mean like threatening to fine the Lightning for trying to have a viewing party for a 2nd time this series?  I couldn't believe that.

 

To your point, they will wait till as close to buyout period as possible.  Teams have to know the status of the expansion draft before the buyout period begins.

[phoenix66]

I'd argue the opposite. They'd be fools to pickup a goalie on an expiring contract that has no loyalty to them whatsoever. If they nab him and he doesn't stick around... ouch! I don't see an expansion team throwing away a goalie pick on a soon to be UFA... heck, they could wait until the window before free agency to talk to Bishop about signing with them without using a pick on him.

Go check out the last one in 2000. 6 goalies chosen, only one was on the opening day roster. One was traded. The other 4 were free agents and went elsewhere.

Its no different than the many times we have seen teams trade a player at the TDL only to resign him in the offseason.

Just because you are letting a player hit July 1 doesn't make it harder to sign him. Negotiations have already happened.. I think youll see a lot of contracts in gm's drawers just waiting to be filed on July 1.

If Bishop (or whoever) really wants to be in tampa, and Stevie has made it clear theyre serious about keeping him, it makes no difference if tgey expose him and then let him hit UFA.

[cccsberg]

Go check out the last one in 2000. 6 goalies chosen, only one was on the opening day roster. One was traded. The other 4 were free agents and went elsewhere.

Its no different than the many times we have seen teams trade a player at the TDL only to resign him in the offseason.

Just because you are letting a player hit July 1 doesn't make it harder to sign him. Negotiations have already happened.. I think youll see a lot of contracts in gm's drawers just waiting to be filed on July 1.

If Bishop (or whoever) really wants to be in tampa, and Stevie has made it clear theyre serious about keeping him, it makes no difference if tgey expose him and then let him hit UFA.

That may well be the case.  I'm sure if it happens there will be many interesting strategies revolving around the draft and putting together a team.  

[robrob1974]

I guess the strategy has to be then, which teams still have term on both goalies.... Any of the UFAs could be a risk then, unless the rule of having to protect a NMC and that goalie has one... 

[MAC331]

BT should go all out and get Vasilevskiy

[travel_dude]

BT should go all out and get Vasilevskiy

 

Depends what "all out" means.  1st rounder - out.  2nd - sure.  Prospect not named Kylington/Andersson/Shinkaruk - sure.

Players from the roster - some off the list.

[MAC331]

Depends what "all out" means.  1st rounder - out.  2nd - sure.  Prospect not named Kylington/Andersson/Shinkaruk - sure.

Players from the roster - some off the list.

No not the 1st rounder we need that forward pipeline to get better with quality. I wouldn't be to concerned about any prospect going into a deal to get a quality goaltender. Also not talking about trading "core" players.

[travel_dude]

No not the 1st rounder we need that forward pipeline to get better with quality. I wouldn't be to concerned about any prospect going into a deal to get a quality goaltender. Also not talking about trading "core" players.

 

As you say, there are really only a few roster players that couldn't be part of the deal.  Prospects, I have a little more trouble dealing. Kylington could be as good as Brodie.  Andersson could be another Gio in the making.  Extreme projections, but the point is what you could be giving up.  Every other defense prospect IMHO could be made available. The forward group is smaller.  If they were able to trade picks and prospects I would be happy.

[Redslinger]

My largely unresearched list of possible goalies as possible Flames starter that may be available if the expansion draft goes ahead,  by team:

 

UFA's-

Cam Ward

James Reimer

 

Ana-

Gibson or Anderson (RFA)

 

Dallas-

Lehtonen or Niemi

 

Detroit-

Howard or Mrazek (RFA)

 

Islanders-

Halak or Griesse

 

Rangers-

Lundqvist or Raanta

 

Ottawa-

Anderson or Hammond

 

Philly-

Mason or Neuvirth

 

Pittsburgh-

Fleury or Murray

 

St.Louis-

Elliott or Allan

 

Tampa-

Vasilevsky or Bishop

 

Vancouver-

Miller or Markstrom

 

Winnipeg-
Hutchinson or Pavelich

 

 

I'm not 100% sure which of these guys have NMC though.

 

In my opinion, Anaheim, Detroit, Pittsburgh, St.Louis and Tampa should all be Flames trade targets.  But what would it take to get the guys likely to be available?  My guess is:

 

Anderson- 2nd round pick plus either a roster player or prospect

Howard- 2nd or 3rd round pick

Fleury (I believe has a NMC)- 2nd round pick with maybe a little more added

Elliott- probably same as Anderson

Vasilevsky- Close to Anderson

 

So, is it worth it for one of these guys or is it better to just try to sign Reimer, Ward, Ramo or another UFA?  If so, Reimer will likely be looking at $5 millionish.  Ward and Ramo would obviously be less.

[MAC331]

My largely unresearched list of possible goalies as possible Flames starter that may be available if the expansion draft goes ahead,  by team:

 

UFA's-

Cam Ward

James Reimer

 

Ana-

Gibson or Anderson (RFA)

 

Dallas-

Lehtonen or Niemi

 

Detroit-

Howard or Mrazek (RFA)

 

Islanders-

Halak or Griesse

 

Rangers-

Lundqvist or Raanta

 

Ottawa-

Anderson or Hammond

 

Philly-

Mason or Neuvirth

 

Pittsburgh-

Fleury or Murray

 

St.Louis-

Elliott or Allan

 

Tampa-

Vasilevsky or Bishop

 

Vancouver-

Miller or Markstrom

 

Winnipeg-

Hutchinson or Pavelich

 

 

I'm not 100% sure which of these guys have NMC though.

 

In my opinion, Anaheim, Detroit, Pittsburgh, St.Louis and Tampa should all be Flames trade targets.  But what would it take to get the guys likely to be available?  My guess is:

 

Anderson- 2nd round pick plus either a roster player or prospect

Howard- 2nd or 3rd round pick

Fleury (I believe has a NMC)- 2nd round pick with maybe a little more added

Elliott- probably same as Anderson

Vasilevsky- Close to Anderson

 

So, is it worth it for one of these guys or is it better to just try to sign Reimer, Ward, Ramo or another UFA?  If so, Reimer will likely be looking at $5 millionish.  Ward and Ramo would obviously be less.

We are not the GMs so whatever we say is all guesswork. I will say that I believe it is time to take the risk to go with a short list to obtain the quality required for our goal. We have core forwards and defense, we need that goalie we can put some faith in to grow with the core. My choice is Vasilevskiy.

[travel_dude]

We are not the GMs so whatever we say is all guesswork. I will say that I believe it is time to take the risk to go with a short list to obtain the quality required for our goal. We have core forwards and defense, we need that goalie we can put some faith in to grow with the core. My choice is Vasilevskiy.

Sure, Vasilevskiy is a great guy to target, but it's very possible that Tampa makes Bishop available.  Very much depends on RFA's and Stamkos situations for them.  

 

I guess I have the opinion that Vasilevskiy or Murray are going to cost the most to obtain, assuming either are available.  Andersen is probably a goalie that would come in cheaper, mostly due to their cap.  They can't afford both.  

[Carty]

Sure, Vasilevskiy is a great guy to target, but it's very possible that Tampa makes Bishop available.  Very much depends on RFA's and Stamkos situations for them.  

 

If it works out that the Flames could land either of the two, that would be a great turn of fortune...   Both are high on my wish list...

[cross16]

 

 

Anderson- 2nd round pick plus either a roster player or prospect

Howard- 2nd or 3rd round pick

Fleury (I believe has a NMC)- 2nd round pick with maybe a little more added

Elliott- probably same as Anderson

Vasilevsky- Close to Anderson

 

So, is it worth it for one of these guys or is it better to just try to sign Reimer, Ward, Ramo or another UFA?  If so, Reimer will likely be looking at $5 millionish.  Ward and Ramo would obviously be less.

 

I agree with this list and the likely cost. I think there are likely some options that could pop up too, Malcom Subban for example, but this is a good start.

 

For me personally Ramo is a very, very last resort. Even when he is on his game he only plays like an above average starter and he off his game too much for my liking. Between that and his knee I really don't think he makes sense as a viable optoin for next year. I think you can easily do better than him and not give up a ton in trade. 

 

To me Reimer is the only UFA goalie who should enter into the debate. Ward I think is well past his prime but Reimer does make sense. having said that I would still trade for guys like Anderson, Vasilevsky, Elliot or Fleury before I signed him and the contract makes me nervous. If you can get a 1 or 2 year deal with Reimer for 4 or less I am interested but if he starts getting North of that I don't think that's a wise move. Reimer has never really proven he can be a starter so I'm not willing to pay him like one. 

[kehatch]

I agree with this list and the likely cost. I think there are likely some options that could pop up too, Malcom Subban for example, but this is a good start.

For me personally Ramo is a very, very last resort. Even when he is on his game he only plays like an above average starter and he off his game too much for my liking. Between that and his knee I really don't think he makes sense as a viable optoin for next year. I think you can easily do better than him and not give up a ton in trade.

To me Reimer is the only UFA goalie who should enter into the debate. Ward I think is well past his prime but Reimer does make sense. having said that I would still trade for guys like Anderson, Vasilevsky, Elliot or Fleury before I signed him and the contract makes me nervous. If you can get a 1 or 2 year deal with Reimer for 4 or less I am interested but if he starts getting North of that I don't think that's a wise move. Reimer has never really proven he can be a starter so I'm not willing to pay him like one.

I agree with all of the above. Fortunately it looks good to get a goalie this summer. The Flames have plenty of picks and some decent pieces to trade and there should be goalies available. Friedman was on the 960 talking about how good of a time it is to be in the market for a goalie.

I am confident we will get someone and not have to resort to Ramo.

[Flyerfan52]

My largely unresearched list of possible goalies as possible Flames starter that may be available if the expansion draft goes ahead,  by team:

 

UFA's-

Cam Ward

James Reimer

 

Ana-

Gibson or Anderson (RFA)

 

Dallas-

Lehtonen or Niemi

 

Detroit-

Howard or Mrazek (RFA)

 

Islanders-

Halak or Griesse

 

Rangers-

Lundqvist or Raanta

 

Ottawa-

Anderson or Hammond

 

Philly-

Mason or Neuvirth

 

Pittsburgh-

Fleury or Murray

 

St.Louis-

Elliott or Allan

 

Tampa-

Vasilevsky or Bishop

 

Vancouver-

Miller or Markstrom

 

Winnipeg-

Hutchinson or Pavelich

 

 

I'm not 100% sure which of these guys have NMC though.

 

In my opinion, Anaheim, Detroit, Pittsburgh, St.Louis and Tampa should all be Flames trade targets.  But what would it take to get the guys likely to be available?  My guess is:

 

Anderson- 2nd round pick plus either a roster player or prospect

Howard- 2nd or 3rd round pick

Fleury (I believe has a NMC)- 2nd round pick with maybe a little more added

Elliott- probably same as Anderson

Vasilevsky- Close to Anderson

 

So, is it worth it for one of these guys or is it better to just try to sign Reimer, Ward, Ramo or another UFA?  If so, Reimer will likely be looking at $5 millionish.  Ward and Ramo would obviously be less.

Reimer & his agent will be looking for $5 million but with the possible expansion draft likely opening up trades where teams would have preferred to keep both their goalies they'll be waiting a long time.

A lot of goalies that would go on the trading block if expansion is confirmed carry a lower than $5 million cap hit while having a better track record.

[travel_dude]

I agree with this list and the likely cost. I think there are likely some options that could pop up too, Malcom Subban for example, but this is a good start.

 

For me personally Ramo is a very, very last resort. Even when he is on his game he only plays like an above average starter and he off his game too much for my liking. Between that and his knee I really don't think he makes sense as a viable optoin for next year. I think you can easily do better than him and not give up a ton in trade. 

 

To me Reimer is the only UFA goalie who should enter into the debate. Ward I think is well past his prime but Reimer does make sense. having said that I would still trade for guys like Anderson, Vasilevsky, Elliot or Fleury before I signed him and the contract makes me nervous. If you can get a 1 or 2 year deal with Reimer for 4 or less I am interested but if he starts getting North of that I don't think that's a wise move. Reimer has never really proven he can be a starter so I'm not willing to pay him like one. 

 

I think that there may be a place for Ramo in the organization, but it's not in the NHL.  If we go with a real starter and with Ortio as backup, we don't have anyone on the farm besides Gillies.  Maybe MacDonald turns pro, or maybe he goes back to junior.  That leaves us a little light down on the farm.  And it also assumes that Ortio is a bonafide NHL backup.  

 

Ramo is not likely to get many offers this summer.  He may go back to Europe, but I think he would prefer to stay in NA.  If he was desperate, would it be a reasonable option to sign him to a 1-way deal at around $1m?  It manages the risk on the farm and Ortio crapping the bed.  Maybe the $$ are way too small, but if it's that or the unemployment line, he may choose to stay in NA.  

 

Just a thought.  Maybe MacDonald turns pro and this is not needed. 

[cross16]

I can't see Ramo taking that deal. If that was his best offer I think he would go to Europe and make a fair bit more than that. I do agree they are light in the AHL but I think you can get some depth there without Ramo. If the Flames acquire a starter, as I think they should, I think Ramo would not be an option.

 

I also think its highly likely McDonald turns pro as I dont' see the Flames wanting him to stay in Junior but he could go to the ECHL too so its not like he has to play AHL. 

[travel_dude]

I can't see Ramo taking that deal. If that was his best offer I think he would go to Europe and make a fair bit more than that. I do agree they are light in the AHL but I think you can get some depth there without Ramo. If the Flames acquire a starter, as I think they should, I think Ramo would not be an option.

 

I also think its highly likely McDonald turns pro as I dont' see the Flames wanting him to stay in Junior but he could go to the ECHL too so its not like he has to play AHL. 

 

I was just basing it on Ramo probably wanting to stay in NA.  If it was a one-year deal, it at least makes it more likely that he gets back into the NHL.  Going to Europe would kill that chance.  He likely wouldn't sign for $1m+, but there are going to be a lot of goalies out there vying for positions.  The offers may not be there, especially if he isn't even on the ice until October.