Goaltending

[JTech780]

I've been asking that question for 3 years now as we've refused to take goaltender development seriously for some time.

The bottom line, is that instead of developing goalies, we've gone with stop-gap measures. Hiller, Ramo...and log-jammed our development stream doing it.

Now people are suggesting we do more of that. Why?

If we can get a goalie who can win a cup....for a reasonable contract...let's do it.

Oh, but we can't. Because teams don't just give up goalies like that.

It's about reality.

So because we can't get a cup winning goalie through trade, we shouldn't get any goalies and go with goalies that aren't ready for full time duty?

Also who was log jammed that deserved to be in the NHL? Ortio? The guy that couldn't keep his starting job in the AHL?

Developing goalies doesn't mean putting guys that have potential in the NHL because they might work out. The reason he hasn't gotten a legit shot is because he hasn't shown he can be consistent. 5 good games doesn't make him NHL ready, it might have bought him more time and a chance but if he has a bad camp or starts the season off poorly, back to the AHL for more seasoning.

Me neither. But that's all you're going to get in a trade, and you'll pay through the nose for it.

It's not about tanking.

It's as simple as this: We need a Stanley Cup quality goalie.

Nobody is going to give us one affordably. We have to develop one.

Which means, we need to give them serious NHL minutes and actually develop them.

Bring in a veteran starter, they gobble the minutes....we're set back two more years. It could literally kill our Stanley cup chances.

p.s...for the record, I'm not saying it's Ortio. But hopefully, by the end of this season, we'll be able to answer that question intelligently. I think we May need a goalie too. Just a much younger one, with a much higher ceiling, than those listed here so far.

So what are you proposing?

Who is your ideal starter for next season that is available and ready?

[jjgallow]

So because we can't get a cup winning goalie through trade, we shouldn't get any goalies and go with goalies that aren't ready for full time duty?

Also who was log jammed that deserved to be in the NHL? Ortio? The guy that couldn't keep his starting job in the AHL?

 

 

He as actually the best player in the AHL for a period of time.  We gave him a few starts, probably a year late.  He won 5 games in a row.  Had one bad game.  We tossed him.

 

So to answer your question, we have no idea what Ortio deserved, because we never gave him that opportunity.

 

Gillies has also been held back.   Could have signed him a year earlier.  But couldn't...because we held back Ortio.  Which meant we had no room for Gillies in the AHL.

 

And you know what?  Maybe Ortio's no good.  Maybe Gillies isn't any good.  Had we given them better opportunities, we would actually KNOW that, like... a year or two ago, and already be developing Better acquired prospects.  

 

It's not just about bashing our current prospects.  That doesn't excuse it.  The prospects we have, and their experience level, are a result of the systemic neglect.

[DirtyDeeds]

First off Gillies is done for the year, they are hoping he will be ready for development camp. He factors in as the starter in Stockton next year and quite possibly as the backup for Calgary in the event of an injury.

That is one position down.

McDonald is the other guy that could factor into this as he could be splitting time in Stockton with Gillies next year. I want both to start a ton so I would either put McDonald back in the Q or in the ECHL just to get starts more than anything.

Ortio, if signed has earned a chance as the back up for next year, I think most of not all of us can agree on this point.

So now we have the back up in Calgary, the starter and possibly the backup in Stockton.

I am curious what we do with Poulin, he could be really valuable depth for this team. He has shown he is a capable goalie at the AHL level and can give us a bit of a safety blanket for Stockton. The added bonus is that if there is an injury to someone at the NHL level he can come up and sit on the bench, while Gillies keeps developing at the AHL level. Having Gillies come up and sit on the bench does nothing for his development.

So the last thing we need is a starter for Calgary. This we can all agree on. What we don't agree on is how we go about filling that hole.

Some people are fine with the idea of missing the playoffs next year and gunning for another high draft pick. While others like myself see the way forward is to get a proven starter for the next few years and start helping our young learn how to win.

I think that pretty much sums up where we are to this point and I still don't understand the thought process of bringing in sub par goalies.

Sorry JT I can't let it go....

 

I think the first thing we need is a #1 Starter, not the last thing we need. 

[JTech780]

He as actually the best player in the AHL for a period of time. We gave him a few starts, probably a year late. He won 5 games in a row. Had one bad game. We tossed him.

So to answer your question, we have no idea what Ortio deserved, because we never gave him that opportunity.

Gillies has also been held back. Could have signed him a year earlier. But couldn't...because we held back Ortio. Which meant we had no room for Gillies in the AHL.

And you know what? Maybe Ortio's no good. Maybe Gillies isn't any good. Had we given them better opportunities, we would actually KNOW that, like... a year or two ago, and already be developing Better acquired prospects.

It's not just about bashing our current prospects. That doesn't excuse it. The prospects we have, and their experience level, are a result of the systemic neglect.

I 100% disagree with every word I this post.

Ortio won 4 games lost 1 and then had to be sent back as he was an emergency call up.

Ortio may have been the best player I the AHL stretch and he is capable but he has also shown that he can be one of the worst players in the AHL. It's that consistency that is holding him back, not players in the NHL.

Gillies may have been ready for pro last year, but he went back to college and won a national championship that was huge for his development.

Sorry JT I can't let it go....

I think the first thing we need is a #1 Starter, not the last thing we need.

Dang sentence structure it will be my downfall.

[robrob1974]

He as actually the best player in the AHL for a period of time.  We gave him a few starts, probably a year late.  He won 5 games in a row.  Had one bad game.  We tossed him.

 

So to answer your question, we have no idea what Ortio deserved, because we never gave him that opportunity.

 

Gillies has also been held back.   Could have signed him a year earlier.  But couldn't...because we held back Ortio.  Which meant we had no room for Gillies in the AHL.

 

And you know what?  Maybe Ortio's no good.  Maybe Gillies isn't any good.  Had we given them better opportunities, we would actually KNOW that, like... a year or two ago, and already be developing Better acquired prospects.  

 

It's not just about bashing our current prospects.  That doesn't excuse it.  The prospects we have, and their experience level, are a result of the systemic neglect.

 

Ok, so, having Gillies in college is not the worst thing. He was getting developed there. Do you think that Demko should be signed to an NHL contract now? I don't think that having Gillies develop there was a terrible thing. 

 

Who knows if he would have gotten injured again. But apparently he still would have needed a surgery as it was a genetic thing with his hips. He was bound to lose a year anyway. 

 

Aside from the 5 games Ortio played last year, which was an extremely low sample size in which he floundered in his last game, and was trending downwards in each start prior to that last one, he didn't look like an NHL goalie. He looked like he needed another year in the AHL. So no, I don't think that needed to bring Ortio up, then have Gillies up.

[jjgallow]

So what are you proposing?

Who is your ideal starter for next season that is available and ready?

 

I am Proposing...we see how the rest of this season goes with Ortio.  Because he could surprise us.  It is amazing what a little confidence can do.

 

I'm not saying he will, but Ortio Could earn more than backup.  He's capable of it.   We can't count it out yet.  I'm not even wanting him to really, I want Auston Matthews.  But if he catches fire, we have a situation.

 

If Ortio is our backup next year, we have a bigger issue than our starter.  It means we've got more work to do on the prospect end.

 

I would be trying to convince Jake Kelly to come to training camp with us (not even sure if he's allowed, but I think he can):

http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=194872

 

Kid's amazing.  NHL games wouldn't be out of the question.

 

If we're wanting a prospect more NHL-ready:  

 

Make a trade for a kid like Jared Coreau.

http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=45872

 

Would cost very little, and the kid is starter material.

 

 

or lesser known:

 

Mantas Armalas

http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=15753

 

 

 

Basically LOAD your training camp up.   Maybe some work out.  Maybe a lot don't.  Play them.  Find out.  Keep the winners.  Put your faith in them.   Let them reach their potential.

[JTech780]

I am Proposing...we see how the rest of this season goes with Ortio. Because he could surprise us. It is amazing what a little confidence can do.

I'm not saying he will, but Ortio Could earn more than backup. He's capable of it. We can't count it out yet. I'm not even wanting him to really, I want Auston Matthews. But if he catches fire, we have a situation.

If Ortio is our backup next year, we have a bigger issue than our starter. It means we've got more work to do on the prospect end.

I would be trying to convince Jake Kelly to come to training camp with us (not even sure if he's allowed, but I think he can):

http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=194872

Kid's amazing. NHL games wouldn't be out of the question.

If we're wanting a prospect more NHL-ready:

Make a trade for a kid like Jared Coreau.

http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=45872

Would cost very little, and the kid is starter material.

or lesser known:

Mantas Armalas

http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=15753

Basically LOAD your training camp up. Maybe some work out. Maybe a lot don't. Play them. Find out. Keep the winners. Put your faith in them. Let them reach their potential.

Even if Ortio wins out the rest of the way I am not counting on him being our starter next year.

Vast majority of goalies don't reach their potential till they are in their mid 20's. Lots of top end goalies don't end up being starters till after the age of 25.

I strongly disagree with your plan for developing goalies. It seems you want to rush them to the NHL. One of the goalies you are suggesting is 19 and playing in the USHL, he isn't even remotely close to playing in the NHL.

[jjgallow]

Even if Ortio wins out the rest of the way I am not counting on him being our starter next year.

Vast majority of goalies don't reach their potential till they are in their mid 20's. Lots of top end goalies don't end up being starters till after the age of 25.

I strongly disagree with your plan for developing goalies. It seems you want to rush them to the NHL. One of the goalies you are suggesting is 19 and playing in the USHL, he isn't even remotely close to playing in the NHL.

 

 

What I said, is that if you are correct, we have a bigger problem than our starter next year.

 

You don't actually know if you're correct.  And no, that's not realistic...if Ortio won every game for the rest of the season, he would be our starter or he would sign with a team that made him a starter.  That's not going to happen, but then, we don't know what will happen.

 

If you're correct, we need prospects.   First and foremost.  

 

The truth is, Numerous quality NHL veteran goalies are available each and every season at the time of training camp.

 

The 19 year old mentioned above is too young.  But you didn't read the rest of them, obviously. 

 

Gillies, Ortio, other prospects we bring in would all come to training camp.  If none of them win a starter position...Then...and only then, we look at bringing in a veteran.

 

We are jumping the gun.  We need to stick with the rebuild and the plan.

[kehatch]

Do you realize you are advocating for a sub 900 goalie with 25 NHL games to be our starter next season because there is a possibility he could play well for the final dozen or so games he gets? Your suggesting that he competes with a bunch of other kids in camp with zero NHL games to see who gets to carry the load. And that's sticking to the rebuild plan?

You seem to take it as a personal affront that others don't agree with you. Apparently this will be a travesty in development if the Flames don't give him the undisputed reigns. The Flames are also responsible for his poor play across the NHL and AHL this season.

This is all based on 3 quality starts out of the last 4 games he has played. Sorry man, but even if he is solid for the rest of the season 40 or so games isn't enough to count on him to carry the load next season.

Ortio's will and should get the bulk of the starts to finish the season. If he earns it he will be back next season and he should get a bunch of starts as one of the two roster goalies. Then we will know what we have in the guy and treat him accordingly.

But it will be as one of two goalies and the intelligent approach is to bring on someone that serves as a legitimate starter option for the Flames. Now and into the future.

[jjgallow]

Do you realize you are advocating for a sub 900 goalie with 25 NHL games to be our starter next season because there is a possibility he could play well for the final dozen or so games he gets? Your suggesting that he competes with a bunch of other kids in camp with zero NHL games to see who gets to carry the load. And that's sticking to the rebuild plan?

You seem to take it as a personal affront that others don't agree with you. Apparently this will be a travesty in development if the Flames don't give him the undisputed reigns. The Flames are also responsible for his poor play across the NHL and AHL this season.

This is all based on 3 quality starts out of the last 4 games he has played. Sorry man, but even if he is solid for the rest of the season 40 or so games isn't enough to count on him to carry the load next season.

Ortio's will and should get the bulk of the starts to finish the season. If he earns it he will be back next season and he should get a bunch of starts as one of the two roster goalies. Then we will know what we have in the guy and treat him accordingly.

But it will be as one of two goalies and the intelligent approach is to bring on someone that serves as a legitimate starter option for the Flames. Now and into the future.

 

I've actually said, at least two dozen times now, that what has to happen, is we need to see what we have in Ortio.

 

There are a lot of egos on here who think they already know the outcome, or that they are so smart, that the outcome doesn't matter.

 

You have no idea what Ortio's save percentage will be.  Yet you feel you do.

 

When we know what we have, then we take next steps.   And no, I am not suggesting that we start the season with a sub 900 goalie.   But we are jumping the gun.   There is not a single person on this message board qualified to assess a goalie for Stanley Cup potential.  I am quite certain of that (myself included).   And I'm not so sure the Flames have that ability in their organization either.  Definitely not in their coaching staff.

 

In the words of connundrumed:

 

"It's a build, not a panic attack"

[phoenix66]

I've actually said, at least two dozen times now, that what has to happen, is we need to see what we have in Ortio.

There are a lot of egos on here who think they already know the outcome, or that they are so smart, that the outcome doesn't matter.

You have no idea what Ortio's save percentage will be. Yet you feel you do.

When we know what we have, then we take next steps. And no, I am not suggesting that we start the season with a sub 900 goalie. But we are jumping the gun.

In the words of connundrumed:

"It's a build, not a panic attack"

This is totally right.kipper came because we needed an emergency fill in due to injuries to Turek and Maclennan. Nobody knew what he could be..Conroy said later this guy showed up and there were double takes everywhere.. The rest is history

I think many of us here are missing the obvious and I think this board is going to explode when it becomes apparent what the flames plan is.

Backstrom was not a cap dump throw in..he was the target.

Why do you go to that much trouble for a 6the round pick? Why promise a cap dump player games just to get a 6the for David Jones? Why do you have a painted goal mask ready for your new cap dump player within a day after the trade?

No..he was the target..the Flames wanted Backstrom

Obviously his play over the rest of the season will be key..but it makes sense.

Ramo is injured long term. Ortio is simply not ready to be the main starter but if you can mentor him with arguably the best Finnish goalie not named kipper? Ramo as well..this guy is probably a hero to both of them

We've already heard the flames setting the groundwork.. Praising his conditioning and work ethic..Bh commenting "maybe we have a 38 year old gem hiding here"

Nope..the flames have a plan for him.hes here to play for a contract next year.he was the target all along

[MAC331]

This is totally right.kipper came because we needed an emergency fill in due to injuries to Turek and Maclennan. Nobody knew what he could be..Conroy said later this guy showed up and there were double takes everywhere.. The rest is history

I think many of us here are missing the obvious and I think this board is going to explode when it becomes apparent what the flames plan is.

Backstrom was not a cap dump throw in..he was the target.

Why do you go to that much trouble for a 6the round pick? Why promise a cap dump player games just to get a 6the for David Jones? Why do you have a painted goal mask ready for your new cap dump player within a day after the trade?

No..he was the target..the Flames wanted Backstrom

Obviously his play over the rest of the season will be key..but it makes sense.

Ramo is injured long term. Ortio is simply not ready to be the main starter but if you can mentor him with arguably the best Finnish goalie not named kipper? Ramo as well..this guy is probably a hero to both of them

We've already heard the flames setting the groundwork.. Praising his conditioning and work ethic..Bh commenting "maybe we have a 38 year old gem hiding here"

Nope..the flames have a plan for him.hes here to play for a contract next year.he was the target all along

Any GM should give himself options, whether Backstrom plays himself into the picture for next year remains to be seen. Jones had to go regardless and his absence allows us to see a few other forwards play, with an eye for next season.

Sorry but I'm not going to get over enthused about Backstrom being around next season.

[cross16]

I think this thread should take pause, because funny enough pretty much everyone here is agreeing to the same thing. Everyone things Ortio deserves games down the stretch and everyone wants to see what Ortio has. Most pepole also agree he should factor into next season provided he keeps playing well so everyone should keep that in mind that the basis of this discussion basicaly everyone is agreement with. Most everyone just recognzies we need someone to help Ortio and how they Flames get that is what is open for discussion. 

 

 

 

"It's a build, not a panic attack"

 

I think it unfair to cateogrize everyone who wants to find some goaltending help now as not patient enough to handle a rebuild. I"ve been very patient and will continue to be patient with the players, but once thing I don't have pateince for is seeing a good young team saddled with brutal goaltending that could impact their confidence. That to me is unnacceptable and needs to be addressed. While you may be comfortable with the idea of brining in a bunch of goalies who have never played in the NHL and are under 25 then fine that is your opinion, but how much under 25 goalies that you know came in as rookies and gave their team above avg, or even avg NHL calibre goaltending for 30 plus games a year? Unless you are a top prospcts it is quite rare. 

Where I am with you if targetting goalies that are on the cusp of the NHL, ala Vaslivesky, maybe Subban and I've even had my eye on Jared Coreau too, but the problem is they will be costly too and begs the debate are you comfortabe trading a 1st round pick + to get some of these guys?

 

At what point does the rebuild stop? So you bring in 2/3 kids to compete with Ortio and what if none of them work out (which statistically is more likely) and how long do you give them? Do you give them 2 years until Gilles is ready? Ok, so now you've spent 2 yeras trying to fix the goaltending and its Gilles turns, now what if he doesn't work out? what if he takes a seson or 2 to figure it out? Now you are 4 or 5 years down the road and you are approaching a 10 year rebuild, is that really want you want?

 

That's not having paitence, that's just being foolish IMO. I don't understand why you woudln't want to help your team now and would be willing to risk extendingt his rebuild out so much longer than it needs to be. I'd much rather see the Flames shoot to make the playoffs sooner rather than later and start gaining that experience. With your posts JJ, you make it sound like their is a magic formual for how you build a contender and once the Flames have all of it they will suddnely challenge for the cup. I disagree, and think a team needs to build and mature along the way and part of that is making the playoffs and part of that is losing in the playoffs so why not get there sooner rather than later?

And I want to end this on a year clear not because I have zero interest in this "ortio or no Ortio debate". What I am talking about is brining in someone to help and compete with Ortio, not repalce them. If you can get a good young goalie on the cusp (ala Vasilevsky) then sure do it, But failing than then i think some who has been in NHL games and can handle 30-40 at MINIMUM is needed. If Ortio is the better of the 2 of them fantastic, if he isn't you are covered. 

[kehatch]

I've actually said, at least two dozen times now, that what has to happen, is we need to see what we have in Ortio.

There are a lot of egos on here who think they already know the outcome, or that they are so smart, that the outcome doesn't matter.

You have no idea what Ortio's save percentage will be. Yet you feel you do.

When we know what we have, then we take next steps. And no, I am not suggesting that we start the season with a sub 900 goalie. But we are jumping the gun. There is not a single person on this message board qualified to assess a goalie for Stanley Cup potential. I am quite certain of that (myself included). And I'm not so sure the Flames have that ability in their organization either. Definitely not in their coaching staff.

In the words of connundrumed:

"It's a build, not a panic attack"

Nobody has suggested they know what they have in Ortio or suggested they don't give him an opportunity.

But you are the one that just suggested they load the camp with a bunch of rookies with no NHL experience and put them in camp with Ortio (and his 40 games) and let them fight it out for the spots.

It is neither ego or panic to suggest the Flames need more security then that.

[phoenix66]

Any GM should give himself options, whether Backstrom plays himself into the picture for next year remains to be seen. Jones had to go regardless and his absence allows us to see a few other forwards play, with an eye for next season.

Sorry but I'm not going to get over enthused about Backstrom being around next season.

Oh exactly, it's an option but all I'm saying is it was a purposeful option.all of us, myself included, immediately assumed cap dump,and he was just gonna go away at the end of the season.it was the only way to unload Jones.

I'm just saying that now obviously was not the case.hes here to audition for the starter job and the Flames brass are quietly hoping for him to get the job.its his to lose.

[kehatch]

That's a pretty serious leap imo. Backstrom numbers make Hiller look good and I don't see him recovering from his 5 year skid at 38. The Flames have access to Ramo and Hiller and Backstrom isn't an upgrade on either.

I also don't think there are enough games to give him any sort of audition this season. He will be lucky to get three games.

Pretty sure this was just a cap dump to get a pick for Jones.

[MAC331]

Oh exactly, it's an option but all I'm saying is it was a purposeful option.all of us, myself included, immediately assumed cap dump,and he was just gonna go away at the end of the season.it was the only way to unload Jones.

I'm just saying that now obviously was not the case.hes here to audition for the starter job and the Flames brass are quietly hoping for him to get the job.its his to lose.

Yeah I wouldn't bet my last dollar on that angle.

[cross16]

This is totally right.kipper came because we needed an emergency fill in due to injuries to Turek and Maclennan. Nobody knew what he could be..Conroy said later this guy showed up and there were double takes everywhere.. The rest is history

Why do you go to that much trouble for a 6the round pick? Why promise a cap dump player games just to get a 6the for David Jones? Why do you have a painted goal mask ready for your new cap dump player within a day after the trade?

 

 

That's not that accurate about Kipper, he didn't come out of nowhere. People forget that Kipper was awareded the best goalie in Finland, played for them at the World Junior and then was a 2 time AHL All-Star. He also played pretty well initially for the Sharks he just had the one bad year and got passed by Nabakov who never gave his spot back up. People actual like Kipper came out of nowhere but he didn't. He was a very talented goalied that just needed an opporunity. Also Sutter had been working on that deal for months, it was not made as a reaction to Turek/Mclellan. Sutter made it very well known when he became GM/Head coach he wasn't a big fan of Turek. 

 

Keep in mind it wasn't just the pick it was the roster spot. Jones wasn't coming back and I think they wanted to use the spot to audition other players so that added to their ugency to take Backstrom in return. 

[phoenix66]

Yeah I wouldn't bet my last dollar on that angle.

Obviously we'll see..just saying all the clues are there to be what the flames are thinking

[Carty]

      

[JTech780]

I've actually said, at least two dozen times now, that what has to happen, is we need to see what we have in Ortio.

There are a lot of egos on here who think they already know the outcome, or that they are so smart, that the outcome doesn't matter.

You have no idea what Ortio's save percentage will be. Yet you feel you do.

When we know what we have, then we take next steps. And no, I am not suggesting that we start the season with a sub 900 goalie. But we are jumping the gun. There is not a single person on this message board qualified to assess a goalie for Stanley Cup potential. I am quite certain of that (myself included). And I'm not so sure the Flames have that ability in their organization either. Definitely not in their coaching staff.

In the words of connundrumed:

"It's a build, not a panic attack"

Going into next year with Ortio as the number 1 option and then waiting to see if he sinks or swims before making a decision on getting another goalie is irresponsible, and if Treliving actually did that I would be calling for him to be fired and I really like Treliving.

It has nothing to do with ego, and if anyone here has an ego I am afraid it you, it is about proper team management.

[cccsberg]

This is totally right.kipper came because we needed an emergency fill in due to injuries to Turek and Maclennan. Nobody knew what he could be..Conroy said later this guy showed up and there were double takes everywhere.. The rest is history

I think many of us here are missing the obvious and I think this board is going to explode when it becomes apparent what the flames plan is.

Backstrom was not a cap dump throw in..he was the target.

Why do you go to that much trouble for a 6the round pick? Why promise a cap dump player games just to get a 6the for David Jones? Why do you have a painted goal mask ready for your new cap dump player within a day after the trade?

No..he was the target..the Flames wanted Backstrom

Obviously his play over the rest of the season will be key..but it makes sense.

Ramo is injured long term. Ortio is simply not ready to be the main starter but if you can mentor him with arguably the best Finnish goalie not named kipper? Ramo as well..this guy is probably a hero to both of them

We've already heard the flames setting the groundwork.. Praising his conditioning and work ethic..Bh commenting "maybe we have a 38 year old gem hiding here"

Nope..the flames have a plan for him.hes here to play for a contract next year.he was the target all along

I'm not sure that this was a concerted PLAN all along, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was.  If Backstrom can still play and we keep him, it will turn out to be a brilliant move for a couple of years, not to mention the mentoring of our younger Finnish goalies.   If it doesn't, the trade will look like a 6th for Jones and Backstrom an afterthought that people will not even notice.  In either case, its a brilliant move with next to zero downside for the Flames.

[cccsberg]

That's a pretty serious leap imo. Backstrom numbers make Hiller look good and I don't see him recovering from his 5 year skid at 38. The Flames have access to Ramo and Hiller and Backstrom isn't an upgrade on either.

I also don't think there are enough games to give him any sort of audition this season. He will be lucky to get three games.

Pretty sure this was just a cap dump to get a pick for Jones.

I will wait to see what Backstrom can do.  The past year he hasn't played, and was battling injuries for a couple before that.  Therefore I don't consider his recent #s necessarily indicative of his current play, which remains to be proven.  

[kehatch]

I will wait to see what Backstrom can do.  The past year he hasn't played, and was battling injuries for a couple before that.  Therefore I don't consider his recent #s necessarily indicative of his current play, which remains to be proven.  

 

.919, .909, .899, .887, benched.  That is his last five seasons.  He is 38 and won't get more then a couple of games to finish the season (and he will be coming in cold).  Even if he has something to show (doubtful imo) he won't be given much of an opportunity to show it.  The guy was great for six years and has been bad for four.

 

This was a camp dump.  Salary exchanged to make the Jones move possible so we could get a pick. 

[cccsberg]

.919, .909, .899, .887, benched.  That is his last five seasons.  He is 38 and won't get more then a couple of games to finish the season (and he will be coming in cold).  Even if he has something to show (doubtful imo) he won't be given much of an opportunity to show it.  The guy was great for six years and has been bad for four.

 

This was a camp dump.  Salary exchanged to make the Jones move possible so we could get a pick. 

IF it is just a salary dump, a good trade.  IF it is/becomes something more, even better.  No downside here.