Goaltending

[CheersMan]

fine.....trade Jones for a 6th round pick then.  What did Backstrom have to do with it?

 

why the fascination with 3 barely NHL goalies on the roster all the time?

 

 

 

I think some posters have already explained this but here it is again.  Jones $ cancels Backstrom $, the dollars cancel, the dollars cancel.  Jones would not fit on their roster without us taking $ back.  We get a 6th round pick and free up a roster spot from possibly the only offer we received.  Jones was done here.  Backstrom will not be here next year.

[Khrox]

fine.....trade Jones for a 6th round pick then.  What did Backstrom have to do with it?

Cap space. Don't think the Wild could have fit Jones in otherwise, even with Backstrom being on LTIR, he still gets paid a percentage (and from what it sounds like, he is about to come off LTIR, and back on full payroll. Minnesota I doubt would be able to afford both on the roster without violating salary cap).

[jjgallow]

I think some posters have already explained this but here it is again.  Jones $ cancels Backstrom $, the dollars cancel, the dollars cancel.  Jones would not fit on their roster without us taking $ back.  We get a 6th round pick and free up a roster spot from possibly the only offer we received.  Jones was done here.  Backstrom will not be here next year.

 

It sounds reasonable, but I don't believe it or a second.  They could have bought Jones out for the last few games, if they really didn't want to play Backstrom.  If I'm shown to be wrong, so be it.  But this is just too consistent with the consecutive bad choices this organization has made with goaltenders.

 

Backstrom wavied his no-trade clause to come over here.

 

http://thehockeywriters.com/minnesota-wild-acquire-david-jones-for-niklas-backstrom

 

 

"Backstrom, a pending UFA, hopes to play again next year and wants to get some games in. That’s why he waived his no movement clause to head to Calgary, where Karri Ramo is out for the year and Jonas Hiller has performed poorly."

 

Sorry.  But I have a hard time he waived his no-trade clause on a hunch.  

 

I hate to say it, but this looks like more of the Flames loving their 3-goalie disaster system.

[phoenix66]

After some thought, I dont hate this. I honestly thought Backstrom was out of the league, didnt do my homework. Saw Burke on tradecenter this morning, and while he didnt take them fully off the hook was quite clear in stating that he didnt hsng this seaspn on the goaltenders.

Doesn't take a genius to figure out Hiller is done here..but.. the heat have a playoff shot, and if they wanna send Ortio diwn ti give them best shot im all for it. I believe theyve already seen enough to determine hes backup material and will get him signed.

Backstrom is a very unique opportunity. Like I posted in the trade thread, give him some games..he sucks you cut him loose.but if he can still play?? He will sign a cheap 1 year contract. You all were clammering for s proven number one game stealer? If he still has a year in him he can be it. We wont know until we see him play, and what better time than in a bunch of games that mean nothing.

If he pans out?? Omg you basically just got him for free, cuz if you still want Jones you can always just sign him back in the summer to a contract that better suits his role

This is either a free 6th rounder, or the heist of the century..either way, great move by BT...I Shudder when I think Sweeney and Benning were in the running here

[CheersMan]

It sounds reasonable, but I don't believe it or a second.  They could have bought Jones out for the last few games, if they really didn't want to play Backstrom.  If I'm shown to be wrong, so be it.  But this is just too consistent with the consecutive bad choices this organization has made with goaltenders.

 

Backstrom wavied his no-trade clause to come over here.

 

http://thehockeywriters.com/minnesota-wild-acquire-david-jones-for-niklas-backstrom

 

 

"Backstrom, a pending UFA, hopes to play again next year and wants to get some games in. That’s why he waived his no movement clause to head to Calgary, where Karri Ramo is out for the year and Jonas Hiller has performed poorly."

 

Sorry.  But I have a hard time he waived his no-trade clause on a hunch.  

 

I hate to say it, but this looks like more of the Flames loving their 3-goalie disaster system.

 

That's ridiculous!  We got a 6th for an expiring asset.  Period.

[cross16]

It sounds reasonable, but I don't believe it or a second.  They could have bought Jones out for the last few games, if they really didn't want to play Backstrom.  If I'm shown to be wrong, so be it.  But this is just too consistent with the consecutive bad choices this organization has made with goaltenders.

 

Backstrom wavied his no-trade clause to come over here.

 

http://thehockeywriters.com/minnesota-wild-acquire-david-jones-for-niklas-backstrom

 

 

"Backstrom, a pending UFA, hopes to play again next year and wants to get some games in. That’s why he waived his no movement clause to head to Calgary, where [/size]Karri Ramo is out for the year and Jonas Hiller has performed poorly.[/size]"

 

Sorry.  But I have a hard time he waived his no-trade clause on a hunch.  

 

I hate to say it, but this looks like more of the Flames loving their 3-goalie disaster system.

You can't buy a player out mid season. That has to be done in the offseason during the buy-out period. The only way to lose Jones is to trade him.

[jjgallow]

You can't buy a player out mid season. That has to be done in the offseason during the buy-out period. The only way to lose Jones is to trade him.

 

cross, I Really don't know the rules as well as you, but we both know trade deadlines Often involve one team picking up salary, etcetera. 

 

I am sure there is better legal-ease I could have used, but I Really feel this reply is straying fairly far from the point.

 

 

Anyway, you said yourself, and I absolutely agree with you, that they should have played Ortio tonight, to see how he responded.  Instead, they sign another ancient goalie, who waives their no-trade clause to pick up the final games here.  Meanwhile, demonstrating the definition of insanity by putting Hiller out there again.

 

We were on the same page that they should have played Ortio out the rest of the season (and/or Gillies, depending on situation), to evaluate what they have as a future.  We both, and many on here, agreed that this Should have been a priority for the organization as the season winds down.

 

It doesn't appear to be a priority now.  Or last year... or ever.

 

And that, is why we end up like we always do, in net.   IMHO.

[travel_dude]

It sounds reasonable, but I don't believe it or a second.  They could have bought Jones out for the last few games, if they really didn't want to play Backstrom.  If I'm shown to be wrong, so be it.  But this is just too consistent with the consecutive bad choices this organization has made with goaltenders.

 

Backstrom wavied his no-trade clause to come over here.

 

http://thehockeywriters.com/minnesota-wild-acquire-david-jones-for-niklas-backstrom

 

 

"Backstrom, a pending UFA, hopes to play again next year and wants to get some games in. That’s why he waived his no movement clause to head to Calgary, where Karri Ramo is out for the year and Jonas Hiller has performed poorly."

 

Sorry.  But I have a hard time he waived his no-trade clause on a hunch.  

 

I hate to say it, but this looks like more of the Flames loving their 3-goalie disaster system.

 

I don't get what you are saying.  Are you thinking we traded for him so that we can sign 3 goalies for next season?  

 

Consider the possibility that the Heat somehow manage to make the playoffs or are really close.  Ortio could go back there and help them get in.  The Heat play most of their final weeks against teams they need to beat.  Ortio has already been assigned long enough to allow him to play in the playoffs.  

 

Between now and then there are quite a few games.  Backstrom might get a few in; BT alluded to that, not the newest goalie to get a run of games.  If BT is worried BH will play Hiller and Backstrom only, he will step in.  

 

I think most of us agree that we didn't need to see Hiller play, but whatever.  Play Hiller we lose.  Play Ortio we lose.  Give Ortio a few more starts and see if he can pull it together.  BT will probably demand that he play at least enough to remain and RFA, so you needn't worry.  

[jjgallow]

I don't get what you are saying.  Are you thinking we traded for him so that we can sign 3 goalies for next season? 

 

no.  at least, not until you brought it up.  Now you're really scaring me...   :0

 

As per the rest of your reply, remember that Gillies is back within days.  The whole idea was to see what Ortio had in the NHL, and see what Gillies had in the AHL.

[JTech780]

no. at least, not until you brought it up. Now you're really scaring me... :0

As per the rest of your reply, remember that Gillies is back within days. The whole idea was to see what Ortio had in the NHL, and see what Gillies had in the AHL.

Everything I have read has stated that Gillies isn't coming back this year. He had surgery in December and was expected out 4-6 months from that time, that puts his return at April to June.

Has that time table been expedited?

[cross16]

cross, I Really don't know the rules as well as you, but we both know trade deadlines Often involve one team picking up salary, etcetera. 

 

I am sure there is better legal-ease I could have used, but I Really feel this reply is straying fairly far from the point.

 

 

Anyway, you said yourself, and I absolutely agree with you, that they should have played Ortio tonight, to see how he responded.  Instead, they sign another ancient goalie, who waives their no-trade clause to pick up the final games here.  Meanwhile, demonstrating the definition of insanity by putting Hiller out there again.

 

We were on the same page that they should have played Ortio out the rest of the season (and/or Gillies, depending on situation), to evaluate what they have as a future.  We both, and many on here, agreed that this Should have been a priority for the organization as the season winds down.

 

It doesn't appear to be a priority now.  Or last year... or ever.

 

And that, is why we end up like we always do, in net.   IMHO.

Well it is pretty central to the point because I think the only reason they have backstrom is because it was the only way to get a pick for Jones. I think Jones needed to go in order to try young plays out down th right side and the only way to move Jones and get something was to take backstrom. Wild weren't going to do the deal without him in there IMO.

Actually I forgot about the back to back so I was fine with Ortio not going tonight so long as he is back in tomorrow. I have no reason to believe he won't so I'm not concerned nor am I about backstrom. I see them giving him a courtesy game or two and that's it and if he gets more it will because his play warrants it. I don't think they acquired him to play him at all but they will give him a game or two and ther is nothing wrong with that IMO.

Also you know Gilles is basically shut down for the year right? He is working out but I havnt read anywhere that he is close to returning and in fact everything I've read still points to him not likely playing this year.

[jjgallow]

Actually I forgot about the back to back so I was fine with Ortio not going tonight so long as he is back in tomorrow. I have no reason to believe he won't so I'm not concerned nor am I about backstrom. I see them giving him a courtesy game or two and that's it and if he gets more it will because his play warrants it. I don't think they acquired him to play him at all but they will give him a game or two and ther is nothing wrong with that IMO.

 

If things turn out like this....then ok.   I'm over-reacting

 

But for the moment....I'm keeping the tin foil hat on.

[travel_dude]

no.  at least, not until you brought it up.  Now you're really scaring me...   :0

 

As per the rest of your reply, remember that Gillies is back within days.  The whole idea was to see what Ortio had in the NHL, and see what Gillies had in the AHL.

 

Everything I have read has stated that Gillies isn't coming back this year. He had surgery in December and was expected out 4-6 months from that time, that puts his return at April to June.

Has that time table been expedited?

 

Even if he was fully rehabbed by the end of March (very aggressive schedule for surgery rehab on a hip), why would they put him into intense end-of-season play?  That makes no sense.  You don't risk a player's development for a handful of games.

 

I think the problem here is you are more concerned with Ortio than anything else.  You would prefer that we play him no matter what he shows, re-sign him and give him a roster spot.  I am more concerned with finding the right goalie.  May not be Ortio.  Oh well.

[jjgallow]

 

I think the problem here is you are more concerned with Ortio than anything else.  You would prefer that we play him no matter what he shows, re-sign him and give him a roster spot.  I am more concerned with finding the right goalie.  May not be Ortio.  Oh well.

 

You also wrote on here that they should see what they have in Ortio.   And that was the only way to go for the rest of the season.   I didn't say that, you did.   If you think that giving games to Backstrom instead of our prospects will help us find the right goalie, then....that's your opinion.

 

Also you know Gilles is basically shut down for the year right? He is working out but I havnt read anywhere that he is close to returning and in fact everything I've read still points to him not likely playing this year.

 

Gillies is targetting the beginning of March.

http://calgaryherald.com/sports/hockey/nhl/calgary-flames/flames-blue-chip-prospect-gillies-recovering-from-surgery-at-dome

 

Not his call obviously, but that's his goal.

[cross16]

You also wrote on here that they should see what they have in Ortio. And that was the only way to go for the rest of the season. I didn't say that, you did. If you think that giving games to Backstrom instead of our prospects will help us find the right goalie, then....that's your opinion.

Gillies is targetting the beginning of March.

http://calgaryherald.com/sports/hockey/nhl/calgary-flames/flames-blue-chip-prospect-gillies-recovering-from-surgery-at-dome

Not his call obviously, but that's his goal.

Return to the ice, not game action. Right now he is only doing off ice work to rebuild strength and hope is he can step on the ice in March. It's a long ways from steeping on the ice for the first time and starting a game or even seeing any sort of action.

It's very unlikely Gilles is going to play another game this season.

[jjgallow]

Return to the ice, not game action. Right now he is only doing off ice work to rebuild strength and hope is he can step on the ice in March. It's a long ways from steeping on the ice for the first time and starting a game or even seeing any sort of action.

It's very unlikely Gilles is going to play another game this season.

 

Ok, well...my bad then.  I still think he's going to be ready for the playoffs....but I did mis-read that.  

[travel_dude]

You also wrote on here that they should see what they have in Ortio.   And that was the only way to go for the rest of the season.   I didn't say that, you did.   If you think that giving games to Backstrom instead of our prospects will help us find the right goalie, then....that's your opinion.

 

 

Gillies is targetting the beginning of March.

http://calgaryherald.com/sports/hockey/nhl/calgary-flames/flames-blue-chip-prospect-gillies-recovering-from-surgery-at-dome

 

Not his call obviously, but that's his goal.

 

No, I said that I am concerned with finding the right goalie.  I was talking about next year.  I never mentioned that I considered Backs an option.  But you are obsessed with Ortio.  If they play him for 10 games in a row and he loses every one, what does that prove. Nothing.  I only want him to play over Hiller because I can't stand watching Hiller lose games for us.  

 

As I said earlier, BT will ensure that BH gives Ortio enough games to remain a RFA.  

[jjgallow]

I don't really think he is any worse than Hiller.  Definitely quicker reflexes.  No point in ever playing Hiller again.

 

 

I have been saying this for some time.  BT needs to give BH the players that need to be evaluated.  Waive Hiller and pick up Stalock.  Waive Bollig and bring in Hamilton.  Call up Agostino and Poirier.  Have Ortio and Stalock as the only options.

 

The amount of waived players by teams that haven't made a trade is amazing.  Lots of work possible to do.

 

 

No, I said that I am concerned with finding the right goalie.  I was talking about next year.  I never mentioned that I considered Backs an option.  But you are obsessed with Ortio.  If they play him for 10 games in a row and he loses every one, what does that prove. Nothing.  I only want him to play over Hiller because I can't stand watching Hiller lose games for us.  

 

As I said earlier, BT will ensure that BH gives Ortio enough games to remain a RFA.  

 

 

No, no you weren't talking about next year.  You were talking about waiving Hiller, which isn't even possible next year.  

 

This doesn't have to be about Ortio.   I'll even go as far as to say that your Stalok idea, made a 1000x more sense than what happened.   But if you would rather keep defending the Backstrom signing and how crazy everyone but you is, and whatever other kind of point you're making, you can do that.   Just, you can't do it without conflicting with yourself.

[travel_dude]

No, no you weren't talking about next year.  You were talking about waiving Hiller, which isn't even possible next year.  

 

This doesn't have to be about Ortio.   I'll even go as far as to say that your Stalok idea, made a 1000x more sense than what happened.   But if you would rather keep defending the Backstrom signing and how crazy everyone but you is, and whatever other kind of point you're making, you can do that.   Just, you can't do it without conflicting with yourself.

 

Even if he was fully rehabbed by the end of March (very aggressive schedule for surgery rehab on a hip), why would they put him into intense end-of-season play?  That makes no sense.  You don't risk a player's development for a handful of games.

 

I think the problem here is you are more concerned with Ortio than anything else.  You would prefer that we play him no matter what he shows, re-sign him and give him a roster spot.  I am more concerned with finding the right goalie.  May not be Ortio.  Oh well.

 

Two different conversations.  I suggested waiving Hiller to get him out of here.  I think I have been consistent in that message for some time.

 

In case you didn't get what I was saying, I think you are and have been obsessed with Ortio.  Count up the number of posts where you complained about him being a healthy scratch, being sent to Stockton, his great games in Stockton, how his development was ruined, etc.  I am concerned with finding the right goalie.  Not an inconsistent one, not one that plays well later in the season, but a true starter.  If Ortio can prove he belongs here as a backup for next year starting out, great.  Still need a starter.

[jjgallow]

 

In case you didn't get what I was saying, I think you are and have been obsessed with Ortio. 

 

I absolutely don't know what you're saying.  Do you know what you are saying?  Is there a general direction? 

 

Today was the trade deadline.  We were discussing a goaltender trade.  But I can't seem to get you anywhere near that topic.  All I can get you to do, is strongly disagree...with anything.  Everything.  Even yourself.   But nothing...really, to do with what we were talking about.

 

So....I think we need to take a break.

[robrob1974]

I absolutely don't know what you're saying. Do you know what you are saying? Is there a general direction?

Today was the trade deadline. We were discussing a goaltender trade. But I can't seem to get you anywhere near that topic. All I can get you to do, is strongly disagree...with anything. Everything. Even yourself. But nothing...really, to do with what we were talking about.

So....I think we need to take a break.

Are you two dating?

This conversation makes me feel like I am watching an episode of Archer.

Getting Backstrom had to be done to make the Jones for a 6th work. They can waive Hiller and send to Stickton to keep the goalie situation at bay.

I think it is good asset management to get whatever we could for a guy we weren't going to re-sign and it is probably all we could get. I hoped for anything between a 4th and 6th and we got a 6th and a contract we could afford to eat.

Hiller hasn't shown well so it would work to just shelf him for the rest of the year. Both probably end their careers in Europe.

[DirtyDeeds]

I have just noticed, Ortio is shown on Cap Friendly as Emergency Loan. DDoes this mean we have to reassign him now we have another goalie on the roster?

When Baer was called up on emergency loan it was for one particular player. Soon as that player was healthy he had to return but that was from Jr.

[DirtyDeeds]

When Backstrom was on the radio today he had a few things to say.

 

He was healthy and ready to play at the start of the Season.

He said he wanted to play this year and next year either in the NHL or overseas.

He said that there was no leftover complications from his injury.

 

I am not sure but wouldn't he make a great mentor for Ortio? Same country, famous international hockey hero....

[kehatch]

I think Ortio will get plenty of starts to finish the season. Ramo and Hiller got a string of starts win/lose/draw and I think the Flames will give him the same opportunity.

Is it possible that Hartley doesn't have the faith in Ortio to give him those starts? Sure. Is it possible Backstrom gives Hartley the excuse he needs not to start Ortio? Sure. Is it possible they try running with a 3 goalie system again and that messes with the goalies? Sure.

But none of that has happened yet and the Flames have given no sign that it will happen. There isn't any point in debating about the terrible things that could happen. Let's see who gets the start tonight and go from there.

[tmac70]

Ortio is a best a back and that's even asking a lot. I still never under stood the reasoning for sending Brossoit to EDM Really when a rookie goalie in Coiler land gets an extension he has to be good. I can't recall who made the trade but it was the weakest decision IMHO, it should have been Ortio not Brossoit. We have never had a great record of scouting goalie talent.

 

We are now back to 3 goalies, none of which are remotely capable of being beneficial to the team.