Goaltending

[MAC331]

They will likely need a year or two in the AHL. Then a year or two as a backup goalie. If we are looking at the way someone like Schneider developed, then 4 years for a starter could be good.

Although in 3 years is when someon like Gillies should be competing for a spot. He probably needs 2 full seasons in the AHL.

Macdonald probably has a few more years to develop.

I don't think it is safe to assume that both are going to be developed and ready to go in 3 years. They can probably use a year as a back up in the NHL as well. They're not exactly high end pedigree and even Schneider who was took extra years to get there.

Rask is another one who teams were patient about his development and played years as a backup.

What does that have to do with his injury?

The one thing that makes sense JJ, is playing your goalie 50 games and bringing in your prospect to play 30.

With a Reimer, you can do that. I am not saying get Reimer, but using him as an example.

The problem I see with Reimer is he thinks he is a #1which I don't see in his play consistently enough.

[DirtyDeeds]

We agree on hopes for our prospects.  As for the interim, why not just re-sign Ramo for 1 or 2 years.  We already know what he brings, albeit the injury is new.  I believe he's the most likely, and best option we currently have.  If we can bring in another AHL-level guy with promise that would be good too.

Why not? Yes we know what he brings or does not bring....

• He did not come to this season prepared.
• He stumbled out of the starting gate

 

 He was put through waivers because of poor play. No one claimed him. No one.....

 

So you should ask yourself this: Do you want to give the reins to a goaltender who may not start to perform until Nov for the next couple of seasons? Isn't that a bit like planning to miss the playoffs?

 

Only reason I would sign  him again is we can't find a true #1 that fits our rebuild or our budget.  I wouldn't tie up Starter $$ on him and I wouldn't tie him up for more than a single season again.

 

I might feel different if he had not been injured and managed to finish the season with well above avg numbers.

[travel_dude]

Why not? Yes we know what he brings or does not bring....

• He did not come to this season prepared.
• He stumbled out of the starting gate

 

 He was put through waivers because of poor play. No one claimed him. No one.....

 

So you should ask yourself this: Do you want to give the reins to a goaltender who may not start to perform until Nov for the next couple of seasons? Isn't that a bit like planning to miss the playoffs?

 

Only reason I would sign  him again is we can't find a true #1 that fits our rebuild or our budget.  I wouldn't tie up Starter $$ on him and I wouldn't tie him up for more than a single season again.

 

I might feel different if he had not been injured and managed to finish the season with well above avg numbers.

 

I would look at Ramo as being a capable backup behind a good starter.  He could handle about 25 games and give you enough.

We would need to get a true #1 in front of him.  If we could get Anderson out of Anaheim, I would be happy.  I don't know if there are any other starters that I would trust that are available.  Pav from WPG is good, but I worry about his consistency.  Reimer has never been able to secure the starter position.  If he stays with Toronto, he will likely re-sign there as their starter.

 

If we re-sign Ramo, it would have to be backup dollars, when he is still recovering.  Less than $2.5m.  That would allow us to pay about $4.5 for Andersson.  That's assuming you give him that much of a raise as a RFA.

[jjgallow]

What does that have to do with his injury?

The one thing that makes sense JJ, is playing your goalie 50 games and bringing in your prospect to play 30.

With a Reimer, you can do that. I am not saying get Reimer, but using him as an example.

Well, if there was one thing I really hoped someone would agree with...it would absolutely be that. So I'll take it.

Imho, Reimer is too expensive, and we're not in that much of a rush for his current performance level. But I generally agree with the idea.

[LouCifer]

I think the Flames should be targeting both Anderson (RFA: Ducks) and Raanta (UFA: Rangers). I think these two could give us the 50-32 split spoken about earlier, with room to grow. Question is, what would the Ducks want from us in return?

[The_People1]

We would need to get a true #1 in front of him.  If we could get Anderson out of Anaheim, I would be happy.

 

Same.  Andersen is the best answer to our current goaltending problem.  Perfect stop gap AND in case Gillies and Macdonald don't pan out, Andersen just may develop into a good enough goalie to go all the way for the Flames.

 

Rumours are, the Ducks want a top line winger going into the playoffs.  Chris Stewart who has been quietly playing very well for them is out long term with a broken jaw.  Certainly we would want to offer Hudler but it's almost certainly not enough.  Frolik is arguably fair value but I'm not sure the Ducks want someone who is signed long term.

I think Reimer and Howard are in the same class as Hiller.  It would be making a change for the sake of making a change and we don't get better.  Target Andersen and then settle for nothing short of that.  If we can't get Andersen, then come back next season with Hiller and Ortio.

[kehatch]

Anderson is my top pick.  But only if Anaheim is willing to trade in their division without the usual premium. Personally I think it would cost you something like Hudler and our first to get him and I am not sure I am willing to pay that.  Even if it was lottery protected.  

[420since1974]

I'm not willing to part with our 1st round pick this draft, unless we're robbing someone.

[travel_dude]

Anderson is my top pick.  But only if Anaheim is willing to trade in their division without the usual premium. Personally I think it would cost you something like Hudler and our first to get him and I am not sure I am willing to pay that.  Even if it was lottery protected.  

 

Sub the 1st with something else, and I would be fine.  Not sure their needs (it isn't D-men).  I don't think they would be worried trading with the Flames.  We aren't their biggest concern.  They need to make a run, so they might do it for Hudler and a prospect/2nd.

[cross16]

While I agree Anderson is the best looking option, right now anyway, I'm not so sure its who the Flames should really go after. I don't think Anderson is a top tier goalie he is probably a slightly above average number 1 starter who is going to be expensive both to acquire and pay. If an unproven Martin Jones cost a first round pick what do you think a proven Anderson will go for? Cam Talbot just got 4 mill for half a season of work so I think Anderson is probably going to cost closer to 5 mill and may want term.

 

If I'm wrong by all means try and acquire him, but at what I think he would cost in trade and actual $ I don't think he's worth it personally.

[JTech780]

While I agree Anderson is the best looking option, right now anyway, I'm not so sure its who the Flames should really go after. I don't think Anderson is a top tier goalie he is probably a slightly above average number 1 starter who is going to be expensive both to acquire and pay. If an unproven Martin Jones cost a first round pick what do you think a proven Anderson will go for? Cam Talbot just got 4 mill for half a season of work so I think Anderson is probably going to cost closer to 5 mill and may want term.

If I'm wrong by all means try and acquire him, but at what I think he would cost in trade and actual $ I don't think he's worth it personally.

I agree. Just a side note it is Andersen not Anderson, unless we are talking about Craig Anderson.

Andersen is good stop gap, but I wouldn't give up too much to get him. He has put up pretty average stats while playing in front of a very good Anaheim team.

Also the current rumor is that Anaheim is going to wait till the summer to look at trading Andersen, so that they have a solid back up option to Gibson.

So if we are talking about acquiring him it will come in the off-season.

[kehatch]

When Vancouver traded Schneider they got a top 10 pick. Word was Edmonton wanted to trade but Vancouver was demanding a significant premium to keep him in the division. Varlamov went for a high first and a second and he was traded outside the conference.

Andersen is a little bit older and a little bit less established then those two. But I don't think Anaheim wants to trade him to Calgary and if they do it won't be cheap.

[jjgallow]

this is just me, but I Really don't see the point in the stop-gap thing.  Which I've already made my point on and won't go on about.

 

That said, I will have to say:  this is probably the perfect time to give Ortio a run of games.   Worst case scenario he doesn't manage, we part ways, and we get a top draft pick (possibly Matthews).  Wait a minute...is that a worst case scenario?

 

Best case scenario he proves everyone wrong and shows that he is NHL material.  Or Starter material.   It's happened many times before, and I don't think it's fair of anyone on here to say they have enough information right now to discount it.

 

So, that would seem...like the next logical step.

 

 

p.s....   Failing all that......  How much time does Gillies Really need in the AHL?  He's already proven capable there.  

 

IMHO, Ortio should be given runs at the NHL level, and Gillies should get a spattering of games as well.

 

Then, and only then, would we have anywhere close to enough information to be talking about acquiring goaltenders.

[MAC331]

While I agree Anderson is the best looking option, right now anyway, I'm not so sure its who the Flames should really go after. I don't think Anderson is a top tier goalie he is probably a slightly above average number 1 starter who is going to be expensive both to acquire and pay. If an unproven Martin Jones cost a first round pick what do you think a proven Anderson will go for? Cam Talbot just got 4 mill for half a season of work so I think Anderson is probably going to cost closer to 5 mill and may want term.

 

If I'm wrong by all means try and acquire him, but at what I think he would cost in trade and actual $ I don't think he's worth it personally.

First off, does anyone actually see ANA trading Anderson at the TDL or is this more of an offseason consideration ?

[cross16]

First off, does anyone actually see ANA trading Anderson at the TDL or is this more of an offseason consideration ?

Of season, unless you blew them away with an offer. Doesn't make any sense why Anaheim would trade him when they are looking like a contender again and then run with a rookie goalie on a playoff run. I think they would value that insurance more than the value thy got in trade. Not like his value will go down in the offseason.

[JTech780]

this is just me, but I Really don't see the point in the stop-gap thing. Which I've already made my point on and won't go on about.

That said, I will have to say: this is probably the perfect time to give Ortio a run of games. Worst case scenario he doesn't manage, we part ways, and we get a top draft pick (possibly Matthews). Wait a minute...is that a worst case scenario?

Best case scenario he proves everyone wrong and shows that he is NHL material. Or Starter material. It's happened many times before, and I don't think it's fair of anyone on here to say they have enough information right now to discount it.

So, that would seem...like the next logical step.

p.s.... Failing all that...... How much time does Gillies Really need in the AHL? He's already proven capable there.

IMHO, Ortio should be given runs at the NHL level, and Gillies should get a spattering of games as well.

Then, and only then, would we have anywhere close to enough information to be talking about acquiring goaltenders.

Gillies has only played 7 games at the AHL level and he was very inconsistent in those games, he needs a full season of consistent games at the AHL before I even call him up.

I agree we need to see Ortio play a bunch of games here and my guess is that we see it after the TDL.

[travel_dude]

Gillies has only played 7 games at the AHL level and he was very inconsistent in those games, he needs a full season of consistent games at the AHL before I even call him up.

I agree we need to see Ortio play a bunch of games here and my guess is that we see it after the TDL.

 

If there is still a possibility of making the playoffs, no matter how small, Bob will start Hiller as much as possible.  Won't matter how bad he looked in a previous game.  As long as that slim chance exists, don't expect to see Ortio.  Yesterday, Ortio was in the starter's net, but Hiller was named the starter.  Must be something in Ortio's practicing that Bob doesn't like or he's just messing with him to get him to wake up.

[AlbertaBoy12]

Gillies has only played 7 games at the AHL level and he was very inconsistent in those games, he needs a full season of consistent games at the AHL before I even call him up.

I agree we need to see Ortio play a bunch of games here and my guess is that we see it after the TDL.

I dont know bout that, I think the team in front of him struggled to start the season. Also his stats tell me that he wasent playing all that bad, 2 SO but  14 GA with a .920 sv % tells me he was facing alot of shots in the games where they did score. Also he does have the best stats of all the goalies that have played for stockton this season.

[JTech780]

I dont know bout that, I think the team in front of him struggled to start the season. Also his stats tell me that he wasent playing all that bad, 2 SO but 14 GA with a .920 sv % tells me he was facing alot of shots in the games where they did score. Also he does have the best stats of all the goalies that have played for stockton this season.

Game 1: 0 goals on 19 shots (W)

Game 2: 4 goals on 25 shots (L)

Game 3: 0 goals on 36 shots (W)

Game 4: 5 goals on 25 shots (L) pulled after 2 periods

Game 5: 2 goals on 26 shots; (SOL) 1 goal on 4 shots in the SO

Game 6: 3 goals on 36 shots (L)

Game 7: 0 goals on 9 shots injured after 20 minutes.

It looked like he might be starting to settle in before the injury but 7 games in the AHL just isn't enough to judge if he is ready. My guess is he needs a minor of 2 full AHL seasons before he is ready for the next stage, especially coming off major hip surgery.

[travel_dude]

Game 1: 0 goals on 19 shots (W)

Game 2: 4 goals on 25 shots (L)

Game 3: 0 goals on 36 shots (W)

Game 4: 5 goals on 25 shots (L) pulled after 2 periods

Game 5: 2 goals on 26 shots; (SOL) 1 goal on 4 shots in the SO

Game 6: 3 goals on 36 shots (L)

Game 7: 0 goals on 9 shots injured after 20 minutes.

It looked like he might be starting to settle in before the injury but 7 games in the AHL just isn't enough to judge if he is ready. My guess is he needs a minor of 2 full AHL seasons before he is ready for the next stage, especially coming off major hip surgery.

 

Much like Demko, Gillies was suffering with this for the last year or so.  Demko had the surgery and has been great ever since.  

Gillies will likely need a season in the AHL to show he is capable against pros.  If he shows as well as he did in the NCAA, you could see him sooner than later.

 

That said, I would love to get a top goalie now.  If it has to wait till summer, than so be it.  If Gillies was ready early, then we have a trade asset in whoever we get this year as a starter.  Or we hold back Gillies while we ride a solid starter.  Win-win.

[AlbertaBoy12]

Game 1: 0 goals on 19 shots (W)

Game 2: 4 goals on 25 shots (L)

Game 3: 0 goals on 36 shots (W)

Game 4: 5 goals on 25 shots (L) pulled after 2 periods

Game 5: 2 goals on 26 shots; (SOL) 1 goal on 4 shots in the SO

Game 6: 3 goals on 36 shots (L)

Game 7: 0 goals on 9 shots injured after 20 minutes.

It looked like he might be starting to settle in before the injury but 7 games in the AHL just isn't enough to judge if he is ready. My guess is he needs a minor of 2 full AHL seasons before he is ready for the next stage, especially coming off major hip surgery.

Ya it looks like he struggled a bit in a couple games but 9 goals on 50 shots other then that it doesnt look so bad. I would agree that he needs more time but I think TD might be right in that he could come back from the injury very strong and things could really start looking up for him.

[JTech780]

Ya it looks like he struggled a bit in a couple games but 9 goals on 50 shots other then that it doesnt look so bad. I would agree that he needs more time but I think TD might be right in that he could come back from the injury very strong and things could really start looking up for him.

Don't get me wrong, I think Gillies is going to be a very good goalie, I just think it is going to take him a little longer to make his way to the NHL than most I guess.

[420since1974]

My thoughts are that Gillies needs a full season in Stockton as the # 1, before taking on the Flames backup position.

 

He's essentially lost a whole season to injury, we need to be patient.

 

Signing a NHL #1 for a 2 or 3 year term would be beneficial.

[Carty]

                                                                                                                      

[jjgallow]

If there is still a possibility of making the playoffs, no matter how small, Bob will start Hiller as much as possible.  Won't matter how bad he looked in a previous game.  As long as that slim chance exists, don't expect to see Ortio.  Yesterday, Ortio was in the starter's net, but Hiller was named the starter.  Must be something in Ortio's practicing that Bob doesn't like or he's just messing with him to get him to wake up.

 

 

And that...is exactly..why there is no chance.

 

If that's Bob's strategy, and you may well be right....Ortio's time in net will be sooner than later.  One way, or the other.