Goaltending

[Carty]

Well, at least Ramo is making the first save now.  Rebound control is still questionable and so he has to flop around in recovery as a result.  Kinda scary sometimes but that's where the D comes in to clean up the garbage.  I think all we can ask is please don't let in 1 softie per game. 

 

I could be wrong, but I think that realistically Ramo could continue to let in one softie per game quite often...   The difference might come from how he could possibly make up for it with highlight reel saves like he has shown us he is capable of in the past...   How many times did Kipper do that after he let in a softie?...   I'm not saying that Ramo is on Kippers level, but that is one ability both of them have in common, it's just a matter of how often they could do it...   If Ramo can start to do do that more often as Kipper regularly did, we would all be happy...

 

As a long time goalie myself, there is one thing I can state as fact...   If a goalie says he never has a brain fart and let's in a softie, he is a liar...   It's a matter of how he recovers from it, and makes an effort to make up for it for his team...   It's also a matter of pride, you get one past me that shouldn't have gone in, and I am going to shut the door (or die trying) for the team and for myself...

 

Now that the goalie carousel has stopped, and Ramo is getting regular starts, there is no doubt his confidence level has improved, and that should help...

[CheersMan]

II have been critical of his performance earlier, but I have to give Ramo credit for starting to show noticeable improvement...   Hopefully that trend continues...   Is he the answer?, it's possible, but I wouldn't bet the farm on it...   He is currently the best option available in the system so he is getting the starts...

 

The Flames need to keep looking for a true number one, but there are no easy answers...   Any goalie that I can think of that might be available just isn't on my want list...

 

With the way Hiller has been playing, he does not inspire confidence even as an overpriced backup...   The 2 recent games the Flames won despite Hillers play, not because of it...   The team simply overcame the deficit created by poor goal tending by putting a couple more in the net...   It wasn't just the flu, Hiller has been shaky all season...

 

Even if Ramo continues on an upward trend, the Flames still need to pursue a number one goalie in my opinion...   It's possible that Ramo could really step up...   He has the motive to do so after making it through waivers if he wants to further his career in net, so we shall see...   Even if he does, continuing to pursue  a legit starter is the safer bet, and unfortunately that will take time...

 

Think for a minute where we would be if Ramo had been picked up on waivers.  A calculated risk would have gone horribly bad.

[Jessemadnote39]

I'm a big Bernier supporter. He's a former 11th overall pick a year and a half removed from having the leagues fourth highest even strength save-percentage. This season has been dismal for him but I think he will bounce back. Even though last year was disappointing he had the same sv% as Ramo. 

 

When you look at the options available in the offseason, you basically have Hiller, Ward, Bishop, Anderson, Reimer and Bernier who've proven they can be starters in this league. 

Cam Ward and Hiller haven't put together decent seasons in 4+ years

Anderson and Bishop will cost a 1st minimum. His numbers are also inflated by playing in front of one of the NHL's best teams. 

 

There may be another hidden gem out there in Enroth or Raanta but they can be brought in as a back up to minimize the risk.  

I believe this is a classic case of buy-low and it can work out very well for the Flames future. 

[Carty]

Think for a minute where we would be if Ramo had been picked up on waivers.  A calculated risk would have gone horribly bad.

 

I would have waived Hiller...   Ramo had better numbers even then, and Hiller has a higher cap hit...   At $4.5 mil a team would have to be half crazy to pick him up from waivers with how he had/has been playing...   and that is also what makes him near impossible to trade...

[DirtyDeeds]

I am already of the mind set that of Smid or Raymond or both will be bought out in the summer. So adding another potential buyout candidate doesn't make much sense in my opinion.

I read somewhere that each team now has only 3 buyouts to use until the end of the current Players Agreement. If what I read is correct we can't just up and use two of them now on Smid or Raymond.

 

Smid is playing reasonably well. Why would you want to buy him out? That is like saying sorry we made a mistake paying you so much...

[JTech780]

I read somewhere that each team now has only 3 buyouts to use until the end of the current Players Agreement. If what I read is correct we can't just up and use two of them now on Smid or Raymond.

 

Smid is playing reasonably well. Why would you want to buy him out? That is like saying sorry we made a mistake paying you so much...

 

That is exactly what a buyout is. I would rather not pay $3.5m for a 7th defenseman.

[mikDUCK]

Actually I do not realy understand your complaints guys. Why look for another goalkeeper now in the middle of the season? No other team will give you no. 1 goalie now.

 

Yes, both your goalies had realy bad start (as the whole Flames team, to be honest), but it looks like they started to bounce back  . Hiller is little shaky after injury, but I think he only needs more practice and games, just to get to the shape. Ramo looks ok now and starts to play realy well. You have seven (SEVEN!) straight wins. What would Ducks give to have that streak  .  

[travel_dude]

That is exactly what a buyout is. I would rather not pay $3.5m for a 7th defenseman.

 

Well, I think Smid has some value, especially next summer.  Lots of team will look to FA to fill out their rosters after failed seasons.

We might not be able to trade Engelland, but Smid might be possible.  I doubt we have Russell and Wideman at the end of the year.

If we trade those guys, keeping one of Engelland or Smid is low risk.  That leaves us with 4D signed for next year.  More than enough space on the roster for some kids.  

 

 

Actually I do not realy understand your complaints guys. Why look for another goalkeeper now in the middle of the season? No other team will give you no. 1 goalie now.

 

Yes, both your goalies had realy bad start (as the whole Flames team, to be honest), but it looks like they started to bounce back  . Hiller is little shaky after injury, but I think he only needs more practice and games, just to get to the shape. Ramo looks ok now and starts to play realy well. You have seven (SEVEN!) straight wins. What would Ducks give to have that streak  .  

 

If I'm not mistaken, you're a Ducks fan that followed Hiller when he was there.  Hiller is not the same goalie as last year.  Before his injury, he was slow reacting and gave up easy goals.  After he came back, he had a bad game against the Sharks, letting in 5 goals on 29 shots.

 

When he played sick, he was just as shaky, almost costing us both games.  Not going to say he sucked, because he was probably low on energy.  But there has been no evidence that starting him again will be any better.  The only possible time to start him now that Ramo is playing better, is in Detroit or STL.  If he starts one of those and causes us our 1st loss in two weeks, what then? 

[kehatch]

Actually I do not realy understand your complaints guys. Why look for another goalkeeper now in the middle of the season? No other team will give you no. 1 goalie now.

Yes, both your goalies had realy bad start (as the whole Flames team, to be honest), but it looks like they started to bounce back . Hiller is little shaky after injury, but I think he only needs more practice and games, just to get to the shape. Ramo looks ok now and starts to play realy well. You have seven (SEVEN!) straight wins. What would Ducks give to have that streak .

If Ramo keeps playing like he has the last two games the trade talk will go down. But for the most part the Flames are winning games in spite of goaltending, not because of it.

Besides, we wouldn't be the first team to benefit from an in season goalie change. That's how we found Kipper. Dubnyk had a big impact last season. Etc.

[LouCifer]

Don't look now but Ramo's play is picking up. Dallas is no pushover - moreso one of the dominant offensive teams in the league. Great showing last night, and lately. While I don't want to count my chickens to soon, I have to acknowledge his play is improving.

 

Quite frankly, I'm on the fence about entertaining a Bernier deal. Yes, it could very well be a steal if he rounds back into form, but, living in Toronto myself, I looked at the trade that brought him to the Leafs and he was coming from the best defensive team in the league at the time in LA. I told my family and friends to hold their parade plans until we see how he performs in front of the Leafs defence because his numbers were inflated playing behind LA's defence. Will he stop the first shot? Will defensive breakdowns or his own play be his demise? Is he capable of stealing games? The verdict thus far has been pretty clear... I lean towards not bringing him here, and the only push the other way is his darn potential which for me is only supported by his draft ranking. Was it a weak draft for goalies? I'm not sure. Actually, in this post I think I've decided I'd rather stay clear of Bernier.  I don't like his cap hit for such a gamble, and contracts are coming up this offseason for our core players.  

[MAC331]

Don't look now but Ramo's play is picking up. Dallas is no pushover - moreso one of the dominant offensive teams in the league. Great showing last night, and lately. While I don't want to count my chickens to soon, I have to acknowledge his play is improving.

 

Quite frankly, I'm on the fence about entertaining a Bernier deal. Yes, it could very well be a steal if he rounds back into form, but, living in Toronto myself, I looked at the trade that brought him to the Leafs and he was coming from the best defensive team in the league at the time in LA. I told my family and friends to hold their parade plans until we see how he performs in front of the Leafs defence because his numbers were inflated playing behind LA's defence. Will he stop the first shot? Will defensive breakdowns or his own play be his demise? Is he capable of stealing games? The verdict thus far has been pretty clear... I lean towards not bringing him here, and the only push the other way is his darn potential which for me is only supported by his draft ranking. Was it a weak draft for goalies? I'm not sure. Actually, in this post I think I've decided I'd rather stay clear of Bernier.  I don't like his cap hit for such a gamble, and contracts are coming up this offseason for our core players.  

I have had faith in Ramo from last year, the kid competes hard. I blame BH with this in and out circus called our net, exchanging goalies at the slightest hint of a shaky game. I understand with the money paid to Hiller you want to try and give I'm the advantage to play mostly. Ramo more or less accepted that role last season but appears more aggressive about being the go to goalie this year and beyond.

[Carty]

I hope this is just another ugly rumour......

 

From: http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/clagary-flames-have-discussed-taking-on-toronto-maple-leafs-goalie-jonathan-berniers-contract/

 

[travel_dude]

I hope this is just another ugly rumour......

 

From: http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/clagary-flames-have-discussed-taking-on-toronto-maple-leafs-goalie-jonathan-berniers-contract/

 

 

And BT reportedly denied looking at Bernier.  TBH, I think they were looking at forwards.  Maybe JVR.  Maybe one of Tampa's forwards that would be priced out in the event of Stamkos signing.  Or looking at Stamkos himself, to see what he is worth.  Stats and reels don't always tell the story.

[AlbertaBoy12]

And BT reportedly denied looking at Bernier.  TBH, I think they were looking at forwards.  Maybe JVR.  Maybe one of Tampa's forwards that would be priced out in the event of Stamkos signing.  Or looking at Stamkos himself, to see what he is worth.  Stats and reels don't always tell the story.

JVR would make more sense to me then bernier, we have a need and he would fill it with ease.  Id love to see what he could do playing behind gaudreau on the second line tbh.

 

Although dependign what the deal was I wouldnt say no to taking bernier. IF bernier was part of a larger deal where we got rid of say wideman, I wouldnt be against that.

[travel_dude]

JVR would make more sense to me then bernier, we have a need and he would fill it with ease.  Id love to see what he could do playing behind gaudreau on the second line tbh.

 

Although dependign what the deal was I wouldnt say no to taking bernier. IF bernier was part of a larger deal where we got rid of say wideman, I wouldnt be against that.

 

"Getting rid of Wideman" is wrong on many levels.  He was a league leader in points last season (7th in goals and 4th in points). His contract may be looked at as being an anchor, but it isn't as bad as others out there.  Bieksa is older and is a $4.6m cap hit, but doesn't provide much offense.  Wdieman is primarily an offensive, PP d-man.  Just because he wasn't dealt doesn't mean he doesn't have value.  He should bring back a decent return.  If you retain even $1m in salary, he becomes even more valuable.  Wideman for Bernier would be like getting Butler for Regher.

 

BTW, I am not picking on you, but it seems people think Wideman has no value.  His NTC puts a crimp in possible deals, but I think that is not a deal breaker.  He may not like certain cities, but he is a hockey player looking for a new contract.

[MAC331]

"Getting rid of Wideman" is wrong on many levels.  He was a league leader in points last season (7th in goals and 4th in points). His contract may be looked at as being an anchor, but it isn't as bad as others out there.  Bieksa is older and is a $4.6m cap hit, but doesn't provide much offense.  Wdieman is primarily an offensive, PP d-man.  Just because he wasn't dealt doesn't mean he doesn't have value.  He should bring back a decent return.  If you retain even $1m in salary, he becomes even more valuable.  Wideman for Bernier would be like getting Butler for Regher.

 

BTW, I am not picking on you, but it seems people think Wideman has no value.  His NTC puts a crimp in possible deals, but I think that is not a deal breaker.  He may not like certain cities, but he is a hockey player looking for a new contract.

If BT gets fair value from trading Wideman he takes the deal or he should. We have enough or should have enough offense from this D corps without him and need another better top notch defensively responsible defenseman.

 

This is why I would love to see BT get creative and land Hamonic for us.

[travel_dude]

If BT gets fair value from trading Wideman he takes the deal or he should. We have enough or should have enough offense from this D corps without him and need another better top notch defensively responsible defenseman.

 

This is why I would love to see BT get creative and land Hamonic for us.

 

I guess what I was saying was that Wideman isn't a cap dump for us, so we shouldn't be dealing his as such.  Bernier for Wideman would be wrong in so many levels.  Value is getting a top 6 forward for a top 4 defenseman.

 

Dallas is supposedly looking for a upgrade on D, and are supposedly using Nichushkin as bait.  Would Wideman be a fit with Odoya?  Maybe send Russell?

 

 

[LouCifer]

What do you all think of the Flames looking into either Tokarski or Kuemper?

 

Dustin Tokarski

As soon as Carey Price returns to the lineup, Tokarski will likely be the odd man out in Montreal and sent back to the AHL. Mike Condon replaced him as Price’s backup prior to the season and it puts Tokarski, 26, in a tough position. Tokarski, a Memorial Cup champ, Calder Cup champ and world junior gold medallist with Team Canada, hasn’t reached his potential yet and is set to become a restricted free agent at the end of the season. Condon, meanwhile, is under contract through the 2016-17 campaign.

The Habs also have Zachary Fucale waiting in the wings and they’ll want to see what he can develop into. He’s 8-3-2 with the St. John’s IceCaps in the AHL this season, which is impressive for a 20-year-old.

 

Darcy Kuemper

Minnesota Wild beat writer Michael Russo reported that it seems likely the Wild will consider trading the 25-year-old Saskatoon native. Kuemper is 3-0-4 with a .922 save percentage and 2.29 GAA in eight appearances this season.

With Devan Dubnyk locked up until 2021 (at $4.333 million per year) it might be difficult to keep Kuemper. The RFA will be due a raise in the summer.

 

Here's the full article on Sportsnet

[cross16]

What do you all think of the Flames looking into either Tokarski or Kuemper?

 

Dustin Tokarski

As soon as Carey Price returns to the lineup, Tokarski will likely be the odd man out in Montreal and sent back to the AHL. Mike Condon replaced him as Price’s backup prior to the season and it puts Tokarski, 26, in a tough position. Tokarski, a Memorial Cup champ, Calder Cup champ and world junior gold medallist with Team Canada, hasn’t reached his potential yet and is set to become a restricted free agent at the end of the season. Condon, meanwhile, is under contract through the 2016-17 campaign.

The Habs also have Zachary Fucale waiting in the wings and they’ll want to see what he can develop into. He’s 8-3-2 with the St. John’s IceCaps in the AHL this season, which is impressive for a 20-year-old.

 

Darcy Kuemper

Minnesota Wild beat writer Michael Russo reported that it seems likely the Wild will consider trading the 25-year-old Saskatoon native. Kuemper is 3-0-4 with a .922 save percentage and 2.29 GAA in eight appearances this season.

With Devan Dubnyk locked up until 2021 (at $4.333 million per year) it might be difficult to keep Kuemper. The RFA will be due a raise in the summer.

 

Here's the full article on Sportsnet

 

personally not a fan of either. I don't think Tokarski is an NHL goalie over the long term and while I like Kuemper I think he'll be looking for a raise as an RFA. I'd be interested in acquring him at a low cost to be a backup/1b type goalie but I'd rather not pay him 2 mill plus as an RFA next season. He is still young, but the Wild gave him a shot last year and he could never really play at that starter level. I don't think he is a starer but I think he is a solid goalie

 

I really think the Flames are best to just ride their goaltneding out. Ramo has played well and while I don't believe he will stay at this level I also think he is good enough to get the job done. Keep what they have and keep looking for that true number 1 answer and avoid giving up assets for backups or options. 

[JTech780]

What do you all think of the Flames looking into either Tokarski or Kuemper?

Dustin Tokarski

As soon as Carey Price returns to the lineup, Tokarski will likely be the odd man out in Montreal and sent back to the AHL. Mike Condon replaced him as Price’s backup prior to the season and it puts Tokarski, 26, in a tough position. Tokarski, a Memorial Cup champ, Calder Cup champ and world junior gold medallist with Team Canada, hasn’t reached his potential yet and is set to become a restricted free agent at the end of the season. Condon, meanwhile, is under contract through the 2016-17 campaign.

The Habs also have Zachary Fucale waiting in the wings and they’ll want to see what he can develop into. He’s 8-3-2 with the St. John’s IceCaps in the AHL this season, which is impressive for a 20-year-old.

Darcy Kuemper

Minnesota Wild beat writer Michael Russo reported that it seems likely the Wild will consider trading the 25-year-old Saskatoon native. Kuemper is 3-0-4 with a .922 save percentage and 2.29 GAA in eight appearances this season.

With Devan Dubnyk locked up until 2021 (at $4.333 million per year) it might be difficult to keep Kuemper. The RFA will be due a raise in the summer.

Here's the full article on Sportsnet

Tokarski is a 3rd stringer at best he's a backup, so I would say no to him.

Kuemper makes sense as he does have starter potential, but would fit as a backup.

[AlbertaBoy12]

"Getting rid of Wideman" is wrong on many levels.  He was a league leader in points last season (7th in goals and 4th in points). His contract may be looked at as being an anchor, but it isn't as bad as others out there.  Bieksa is older and is a $4.6m cap hit, but doesn't provide much offense.  Wdieman is primarily an offensive, PP d-man.  Just because he wasn't dealt doesn't mean he doesn't have value.  He should bring back a decent return.  If you retain even $1m in salary, he becomes even more valuable.  Wideman for Bernier would be like getting Butler for Regher.

 

BTW, I am not picking on you, but it seems people think Wideman has no value.  His NTC puts a crimp in possible deals, but I think that is not a deal breaker.  He may not like certain cities, but he is a hockey player looking for a new contract.

I wasent trying to suggest that he has no value. But being able to get rid of his contract, his NTC and all that, even for the player he is in my opinion depending on the deal would be awesome. I wouldnt be suggesting wideman for bernier straight up, but it would be part of the deal that would need to happen to take on berniers money in my opinion. If we were going to trade for bernier I would be wanting to lose one of our D men, and get something else back on top of bernier.

[cross16]

Widmean's value might not be zero but its not much higher. I think if you ate upwards of 2 mill of the deal his trade value would be decent but the fact that he has another year and is not trending in the right direction does not bode well for getting much value back in a trade. I think if you do decide to move Wideman, which I'm not a huge fan of, you do it becuase you value the cap space more than the return you get becuase thats the best asset trading wideman will give you. 

[travel_dude]

Widmean's value might not be zero but its not much higher. I think if you ate upwards of 2 mill of the deal his trade value would be decent but the fact that he has another year and is not trending in the right direction does not bode well for getting much value back in a trade. I think if you do decide to move Wideman, which I'm not a huge fan of, you do it becuase you value the cap space more than the return you get becuase thats the best asset trading wideman will give you. 

 

Other than his age (and cap hit), he is no worse than a lot of top 4 D in the league.  We see his game too much, and there is some reason to hate his play, but other teams speculate how he would fit in their system.  I'll wait for the trade before I say too much more.

[mikDUCK]

Well, I think Smid has some value, especially next summer. Lots of team will look to FA to fill out their rosters after failed seasons.

We might not be able to trade Engelland, but Smid might be possible. I doubt we have Russell and Wideman at the end of the year.

If we trade those guys, keeping one of Engelland or Smid is low risk. That leaves us with 4D signed for next year. More than enough space on the roster for some kids.

If I'm not mistaken, you're a Ducks fan that followed Hiller when he was there. Hiller is not the same goalie as last year. Before his injury, he was slow reacting and gave up easy goals. After he came back, he had a bad game against the Sharks, letting in 5 goals on 29 shots.

When he played sick, he was just as shaky, almost costing us both games. Not going to say he sucked, because he was probably low on energy. But there has been no evidence that starting him again will be any better. The only possible time to start him now that Ramo is playing better, is in Detroit or STL. If he starts one of those and causes us our 1st loss in two weeks, what then?

Yes, you are right, that is me - fan of the last team in west - Ducks. But that is sports, hope they bounce back soon . Back to the toppic. Flames goaltending was realy bad at start of season, now Ramo looks good, so it is not time for panic moves like trade for Bernier. Hiller is not in shape to be starter, but he is veteran nhl goalie, he is not finished yet (ok, little biased Hillers fan). Why don't give him another chance after some practice, for example in back to back game? Just wanted to say, no need to panic, when things start to go right way. Ducks are "experts" in panic moves with goalies and it often end bad way...

[MAC331]

It was interesting yesterday being able to watch all of Bernier, Enroth and Varly in game action. All 3 looked good, even Enroth with 5 goals allowed, maybe Ramo isn't as terrible. LOL