Goaltending

[kehatch]

Funny:

Check out @DarrenWHaynes's Tweet: https://twitter.com/DarrenWHaynes/status/655767953183408128?s=09

[MAC331]

It isn't just about Ortio.  It is also about the extra roster spot.  We have a lot of injuries.  We also have a bunch of players that need to be sat.  But we don't have the roster space to do it because we have it wasted on a third goalie.  

 

Also, the fact that the team isn't good doesn't excuse all of the issues noted above (young goalie needing playing time, weak goals, 1-year contracts with no future, needing to know what we have in Ortio, etc).  

 

You are correct that it is only 5-games.  It could be as early as tomorrow that this is no longer a problem.  But until it is resolved it is a problem warranting discussion.  

I am quite aware we could use the spot but management has put themselves in this position. Secondly you need to run with your regulars initially in order for them to get their game going. Outside of the 1st line BH has a mess on his hands and he better get this sorted out real fast. I thought he had a step in the right direction with moving Bennett to LW with Backlund and Frolik for last night.

 

Personally I would love to see BT unload Hiller and Raymond ASAP.

[travel_dude]

It isn't just about Ortio.  It is also about the extra roster spot.  We have a lot of injuries.  We also have a bunch of players that need to be sat.  But we don't have the roster space to do it because we have it wasted on a third goalie.  

 

Also, the fact that the team isn't good doesn't excuse all of the issues noted above (young goalie needing playing time, weak goals, 1-year contracts with no future, needing to know what we have in Ortio, etc).  

 

You are correct that it is only 5-games.  It could be as early as tomorrow that this is no longer a problem.  But until it is resolved it is a problem warranting discussion.  

 

The maddening thing about carrying 3 goalies is that we waived a good possession forward (and lost him).  Waive a goalie already and call up two players until we have IR players return.  Smid and Colborne can do conditioning stints to get up to speed once they return.  We have 22 players on the active roster right now.

 

If goaltending is not the "problem", it also isn't helping.  Ramo came close to stealing a game, but gave up a stinker at the worst possible time.  Hiller made one or two really good saves last night, but made McDavid look like a star.  

[Wreckening]

WE WANT ORTIO!!! WE WANT ORTIO!!!

[xstrike]

WE WANT ORTIO!!! WE WANT ORTIO!!!

Play Ortio against the Caps. Worst that can happen, we lose again. Something has GOT to give and soon. A new tender just might do it.

[MAC331]

The maddening thing about carrying 3 goalies is that we waived a good possession forward (and lost him).  Waive a goalie already and call up two players until we have IR players return.  Smid and Colborne can do conditioning stints to get up to speed once they return.  We have 22 players on the active roster right now.

 

If goaltending is not the "problem", it also isn't helping.  Ramo came close to stealing a game, but gave up a stinker at the worst possible time.  Hiller made one or two really good saves last night, but made McDavid look like a star.  

I would think Ramo would be anxious to get back in there and redeem himself.

[Wreckening]

Ramo may be interested in getting back in there but repeating the same action over and over and expecting different results is the definition of insanity. Time to shake things up. You don't think Ortio is chomping at the bit to get in there and turn things around for this team?

[MAC331]

Ramo may be interested in getting back in there but repeating the same action over and over and expecting different results is the definition of insanity. Time to shake things up. You don't think Ortio is chomping at the bit to get in there and turn things around for this team?

LOL doesn't quite apply here IMO. Yes I'm sure Ortio is chomping at the bit to show what he can do.

I'm not sure what the thinking is with management in this situation. I'm not sure why they brought Ramo back at 3.9M knowing Ortio was out of options.

[travel_dude]

I would think Ramo would be anxious to get back in there and redeem himself.

 

I'm sure he was wanting the spot against the Oilers.  But the goalie carousel continues.  Hartley should have either gone with Ramo or started Ortio.  I can understand not wanting to go B2B with Ramo, but Ortio wasn't chosen.

 

 

Ramo may be interested in getting back in there but repeating the same action over and over and expecting different results is the definition of insanity. Time to shake things up. You don't think Ortio is chomping at the bit to get in there and turn things around for this team?

 

Hartley is all about starting the same players and expecting a different result.  But, BT may decide to force his hand.  He could decide to waive a goalie and a roster player to wake up the team.  The way some of them are playing, there is a minor chance of being picked up.  

 

I doubt that BT would do this, since he gives a lot of credit to Hartley.  But the GT situation is rapidly getting out of control.  Hiller would easily pass through waivers right now.  Ramo would probably too.  Either way, it gives him options to call up a player or two.

Hathaway is a 100% complete player.  Nakladal gives them some options for defense.  

 

Having 22 players on the active roster of which 3 are defense seems like a bad idea to me, especially if we aren't winning.

[MAC331]

I'm sure he was wanting the spot against the Oilers.  But the goalie carousel continues.  Hartley should have either gone with Ramo or started Ortio.  I can understand not wanting to go B2B with Ramo, but Ortio wasn't chosen.

 

 

 

Hartley is all about starting the same players and expecting a different result.  But, BT may decide to force his hand.  He could decide to waive a goalie and a roster player to wake up the team.  The way some of them are playing, there is a minor chance of being picked up.  

 

I doubt that BT would do this, since he gives a lot of credit to Hartley.  But the GT situation is rapidly getting out of control.  Hiller would easily pass through waivers right now.  Ramo would probably too.  Either way, it gives him options to call up a player or two.

Hathaway is a 100% complete player.  Nakladal gives them some options for defense.  

 

Having 22 players on the active roster of which 3 are defense seems like a bad idea to me, especially if we aren't winning.

I have to think they were hoping for a trade situation to develop during the camp season or after for Hiller. I thought Hathaway did enough to make the team and right now I would love to see him on the 4th line RW.

[Zirakzigil]

Ortio hasnt earned anything, and I highly doubt the Flames are considering starting him anytime soon. There are some serious issues with the team that need to be sorted out. 

[jjgallow]

Ortio hasnt earned anything, and I highly doubt the Flames are considering starting him anytime soon. There are some serious issues with the team that need to be sorted out. 

 

we just finished an entire season saying "things are going too well to try out new goaltenders".

 

So now, things are....going ....too Bad to try out new goaltenders?

 

when is a good time?

[DirtyDeeds]

Can we play Ortio now? Please?? Pretty pretty please???

Sometimes Hartley is downright stubborn.

he does not make that decision alone. It has nothing to do with being stubborn.

 

All coaches get input into how the goalies have been performing both ingame and in practice. After all the input from them he makes his decision who to go with.

[The_People1]

The problem with trading one of our three goalies is that teams will call and ask for the one who's playing the best at the moment.  Are we ready to trade that goalie if his name is Joni Ortio?

 

No.

 

Therefore, we must play Hiller and Ramo and showcase them. 

[travel_dude]

The problem with trading one of our three goalies is that teams will call and ask for the one who's playing the best at the moment.  Are we ready to trade that goalie if his name is Joni Ortio?

 

No.

 

Therefore, we must play Hiller and Ramo and showcase them. 

 

The problem is that the goalies haven't been showcasing anything.  It doesn;t make sense to play the guy you are trying to get rid of unless he us going to win a game or two.  

[kehatch]

The problem with trading one of our three goalies is that teams will call and ask for the one who's playing the best at the moment. Are we ready to trade that goalie if his name is Joni Ortio?

No.

Therefore, we must play Hiller and Ramo and showcase them.

I don't think the Flames are intentionally sitting Ortio in order to showcase a goalie. I think the decision on who to play has been the coaches who is doing the best he can with 3 goalies. Treliving needs to waive a goalie if he can't trade one.

[cross16]

The problem with trading one of our three goalies is that teams will call and ask for the one who's playing the best at the moment.  Are we ready to trade that goalie if his name is Joni Ortio?

 

No.

 

Therefore, we must play Hiller and Ramo and showcase them. 

 

This is why I think what the Flames have done so far is irresponsible. I had no problem signing Ramo and brining 3 goalies to camp but when they broke camp they had to decide on 2. "showcasing" a goalie right now so you can net what maybe a 4th or 5th round pick when your team is struggling to get it going I think is irresponsible management.

 

I do believe part of this early season struggle relates back to goaltending. I think goalies are like starting pitchers in baseball, when you have a good one or one is going good it makes your team better. When you aren't sure what you are going to get night in and night out, and heck not even sure who is going to be in night in or night out, I think it pulls down the morale of your team.

[MAC331]

This is why I think what the Flames have done so far is irresponsible. I had no problem signing Ramo and brining 3 goalies to camp but when they broke camp they had to decide on 2. "showcasing" a goalie right now so you can net what maybe a 4th or 5th round pick when your team is struggling to get it going I think is irresponsible management.

 

I do believe part of this early season struggle relates back to goaltending. I think goalies are like starting pitchers in baseball, when you have a good one or one is going good it makes your team better. When you aren't sure what you are going to get night in and night out, and heck not even sure who is going to be in night in or night out, I think it pulls down the morale of your team.

I agree because it plays into everyone trying to do to much by over-compensating.

[Wreckening]

Derek Wills ‏@Fan960Wills  4h4 hours ago

#Flames Bob Hartley confirms that he will give Karri Ramo the start, that he will split up top line vs. #Capitals.

[travel_dude]

 

Derek Wills ‏@Fan960Wills  4h4 hours ago

#Flames Bob Hartley confirms that he will give Karri Ramo the start, that he will split up top line vs. #Capitals.

 

 

Randy SportakVerified account ‏@SUNRandySportak  6h6 hours ago

Hartley says Ramo will start but he's "sick and tired of the musical chairs" and "one guy has to step up." #Flames.

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Right now, there are only two chairs.  

[kehatch]

eply

 

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Favori

 

Right now, there are only two chairs.  

 

 

Yup.  Hartley made it clear that he doesn't like having 3 goalies.  For him Ortio isn't even there.  This is on Treliving to mix things up. 

 

That said, I still think Hartley needs to get over things.  You have 3 goalies.  Deal with it.  Two are struggling.  Play the third.  

[tmac70]

The only way Ortio gets in is whether one of Ramo or Hiller are moved. I see Ortio as at best a backup this season, what there waiting for is one to separate but the both have been horrible. Actually the team as a whole have been awful.

 

We are now in a position of weakness in a trade involving a goalie.

[The_Argus]

I think we have to keep in mind that had we not re-signed Ramo, we would have lost him for nothing. Therefore, any return we can get now for Hiller or Ramo is better than what we would have got had we not re-signed Ramo. I know you never want to make a bad trade or give a guy away for too little, but as tmac said, we are in a position of weakness now, and I think we should just take whatever we can get and look at it as a positive (compared to what we would have got had Ramo walked).

 

The goalie circus can't be allowed to continue. This is the year we have to see what we have in Ortio. We are not getting great goaltending so far. From last season and this season so far, I think it's safe to say that a Hiller/Ortio or Ramo/Ortio team isn't going to give us a significantly lower chance of winning compared to the Hiller/Ramo tandem. I hope Treliving can pull the trigger on a trade soon; otherwise I think he needs to make the tough decision and waive one of Ramo or Hiller. By mid-November at the absolute latest - that would still leave 3/4 of the season to evaluate Ortio.

 

The only way I would change my mind is if Ramo and Hiller both start playing lights-out hockey and stealing games. But I don't see that happening.

[travel_dude]

I think we have to keep in mind that had we not re-signed Ramo, we would have lost him for nothing. Therefore, any return we can get now for Hiller or Ramo is better than what we would have got had we not re-signed Ramo. I know you never want to make a bad trade or give a guy away for too little, but as tmac said, we are in a position of weakness now, and I think we should just take whatever we can get and look at it as a positive (compared to what we would have got had Ramo walked).

 

The goalie circus can't be allowed to continue. This is the year we have to see what we have in Ortio. We are not getting great goaltending so far. From last season and this season so far, I think it's safe to say that a Hiller/Ortio or Ramo/Ortio team isn't going to give us a significantly lower chance of winning compared to the Hiller/Ramo tandem. I hope Treliving can pull the trigger on a trade soon; otherwise I think he needs to make the tough decision and waive one of Ramo or Hiller. By mid-November at the absolute latest - that would still leave 3/4 of the season to evaluate Ortio.

 

The only way I would change my mind is if Ramo and Hiller both start playing lights-out hockey and stealing games. But I don't see that happening.

 

If you think about it, Hartley is looking for the goalie he wants to keep.  Ortio is not the issue.  He needs to know who is going to take the bulk of the starts.  Yes, Ortio might win some games, but that doesn't answer his question of who is going to step up.

[The_Argus]

I understand that, but how long can you wait if neither guy is able to step up? That's why I'm saying we need a limit, at which point we get rid of one regardless. Also, we had all of last season to evaluate the goalies. In my mind, its very clear what we have in both. Both are good goalies, but not great. Neither will be the future #1 goalie of the Flames when the team hits its peak. The goalies have some different tendencies in terms of style, but overall, they're about equal in their ability to win games. So at this point, I think you just trade whichever one gets you the best return.

 

Ortio is not the main issue, but to me he is still an important issue, because this is the year we need to evaluate him, and he also needs to be given a chance to step up, which he obviously will not get from Hartley while both Ramo and Hiller are still on the roster.