Goaltending

[cross16]

4 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

So does anyone still have doubts that Chad Johnson is and will be the number 1 for the remainder of the year? 

 

I would be comfortable seeing a contract extension coming through for this guy tomorrow.

 

At this point for me he is the guy and the guy I want starting going into next year. He has enough of a track record former now to say that when you factor in contract costs and acquisition costs, that he is the best goalie available for us next year.

 

Fleury is available but it will cost us picks, players or prospects, plus I think an extension for Johnson will be cheaper than Fleury's current contract.

 

Bishop is a UFA but he will come with a big ticket payday, and who knows if he really wants to be here beyond the money.

 

Bishop at $7m over 7 years or Johnson at $3m over 3 years. I would take Johnson.

 

That would depend on the price. If he wants a 2-3 year deal at 3 mill or less by all means sign me up but anything more no thanks. Call it the Roman Turek fear but I don't like the idea of signing goalies when they are hot. I've been very improessed with Johnson and have liked him for years but call me a skeptic that at 30 years old he is suddenly going to become a starter. I get it happens, Dubnyk and Tim Thomas come to mind, but it is rare so I want to see him play this way for a full season and handle 40-50 games before I am comfortable extending him at a starters price tag. 

 

YOu may be right, but if I'm the Flames i'm keeping my options open in net and that includes Elliott, bishop etc. It's a long season and I think we are seeing a goalie in the zone and we need to be careful to not overact to that. 

[JTech780]

19 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

That would depend on the price. If he wants a 2-3 year deal at 3 mill or less by all means sign me up but anything more no thanks. Call it the Roman Turek fear but I don't like the idea of signing goalies when they are hot. I've been very improessed with Johnson and have liked him for years but call me a skeptic that at 30 years old he is suddenly going to become a starter. I get it happens, Dubnyk and Tim Thomas come to mind, but it is rare so I want to see him play this way for a full season and handle 40-50 games before I am comfortable extending him at a starters price tag. 

 

YOu may be right, but if I'm the Flames i'm keeping my options open in net and that includes Elliott, bishop etc. It's a long season and I think we are seeing a goalie in the zone and we need to be careful to not overact to that. 

 

I get what you are saying and yes it would be much better to wait till after the season and see what our options are. 

 

That being said based on what Johnson has done this year and last year, I think he is the real deal. I also don't think his next contract will be very expensive or long term.

 

While I don't think he continue to put up the numbers he has over the last week or two, I do think he can continue to play at a .920+ save % rate for us. 

 

Sometimes it is just a matter of opportunity and until last year Johnson has never been given the opportunity.

 

Going into this season I thought Johnson would push for 35-40 starts, but I also thought Elliott would be much better.

[travel_dude]

3 hours ago, JTech780 said:

So does anyone still have doubts that Chad Johnson is and will be the number 1 for the remainder of the year? 

 

I would be comfortable seeing a contract extension coming through for this guy tomorrow.

 

At this point for me he is the guy and the guy I want starting going into next year. He has enough of a track record former now to say that when you factor in contract costs and acquisition costs, that he is the best goalie available for us next year.

 

Fleury is available but it will cost us picks, players or prospects, plus I think an extension for Johnson will be cheaper than Fleury's current contract.

 

Bishop is a UFA but he will come with a big ticket payday, and who knows if he really wants to be here beyond the money.

 

Bishop at $7m over 7 years or Johnson at $3m over 3 years. I would take Johnson.

 

No to those other guys you mentioned.  As far as who to extend, I think it's too early to call.  Elliott struggled to start the season, but is starting to rebound.  Johnson looks great right now, but could easily tail off.  Neither of them has proven they can play more than 45 games in a season.  Near the end of the season, I would look at the body of work and their results and decide to extend one or both.  The lesser of the two would not be protected.  

 

I get the desire to ride a #1, but I think the jury is out on Gillies as a NHL backup as early as next season.  I think giving up on one of two NHL goalies with no clear successor is risky.

[cross16]

OHL Goalie of the Month for November. 

[The_People1]

Just wondering, what is the penalty for exposing zero goalies in the expansion draft?

 

I ask because both Elliott and Johnson could make for excellent TDL trade assets who could fetch a 2nd rounder to a contending team that loses their goalie to injury heading into the playoffs. If say, the penalty is we lose a 3rd round pick but we were able to trade both for 2nd rounders, then we still come out on top.

[cross16]

1 minute ago, The_People1 said:

Just wondering, what is the penalty for exposing zero goalies in the expansion draft?

 

I ask because both Elliott and Johnson could make for excellent TDL trade assets who could fetch a 2nd rounder to a contending team that loses their goalie to injury heading into the playoffs. If say, the penalty is we lose a 3rd round pick but we were able to trade both for 2nd rounders, then we still come out on top.

 

1st round draft pick for any violation of the expansion draft terms. 

 

However, Flames signed Thomas Mccollum and he meets their requirments for exposing to the expansion draft so Flames could do what you mentioned should they choose to. 

[JTech780]

Just now, cross16 said:

 

1st round draft pick for any violation of the expansion draft terms. 

 

However, Flames signed Thomas Mccollum and he meets their requirments for exposing to the expansion draft so Flames could do what you mentioned should they choose to. 

 Wouldn't we still have to have a goalie to protect? Seeing as Gillies, Rotting, McDonald, Parsons and Schneider are all exempt. I guess we would have to take a goalie back in one of the trades to make it work.

[cross16]

7 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 Wouldn't we still have to have a goalie to protect? Seeing as Gillies, Rotting, McDonald, Parsons and Schneider are all exempt. I guess we would have to take a goalie back in one of the trades to make it work.

 

I don't belive protecting a goalie is a requirement its an option, that's at least how I've read it. 

Having said that I was assuming that Peeps plan include still having some type of veteran goalie on the roster. If the plan was to dump all both NHL vets and run with rookies that's a pretty horrible idea. 

[DirtyDeeds]

6 hours ago, JTech780 said:

So does anyone still have doubts that Chad Johnson is and will be the number 1 for the remainder of the year? 

 

I would be comfortable seeing a contract extension coming through for this guy tomorrow.

 

At this point for me he is the guy and the guy I want starting going into next year. He has enough of a track record former now to say that when you factor in contract costs and acquisition costs, that he is the best goalie available for us next year.

 

Fleury is available but it will cost us picks, players or prospects, plus I think an extension for Johnson will be cheaper than Fleury's current contract.

 

Bishop is a UFA but he will come with a big ticket payday, and who knows if he really wants to be here beyond the money.

 

Bishop at $7m over 7 years or Johnson at $3m over 3 years. I would take Johnson.

Personally I would prefer to wait. There is little reason to extend him now so early into the season. If nothing else from last year we should have learned that goalies can get hot at different times of the year. It won't save us a pile of money by offering something now so why not wait and allow the full story to unfold.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, DirtyDeeds said:

Personally I would prefer to wait. There is little reason to extend him now so early into the season. If nothing else from last year we should have learned that goalies can get hot at different times of the year. It won't save us a pile of money by offering something now so why not wait and allow the full story to unfold.

Attack of the rogue double post issue.

[The_People1]

4 hours ago, cross16 said:

I was assuming that Peeps plan include still having some type of veteran goalie on the roster. If the plan was to dump all both NHL vets and run with rookies that's a pretty horrible idea. 

 

Only thing to assume is we are sellers at TDL, which means we are sure to miss the playoffs again.  In that scenario, trade both Elliott and Johnson and see what we can get back.  If we satisfy the protection requirements, then I would call up Rittich and try to acquire another vet for a 5th round pick of sorts to finish the season.  Both are lame duck goalies as we bring back Johnson long term in the summer and promote Gillies to the back-up role for his first NHL season.

 

That would be a horrible idea if we are sure to miss the playoffs again but still aim to win games.  But i understand.  For me, i would look towards next season while most fans here would still look at the moment and want to win no matter what.

[cross16]

13 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Only thing to assume is we are sellers at TDL, which means we are sure to miss the playoffs again.  In that scenario, trade both Elliott and Johnson and see what we can get back.  If we satisfy the protection requirements, then I would call up Rittich and try to acquire another vet for a 5th round pick of sorts to finish the season.  Both are lame duck goalies as we bring back Johnson long term in the summer and promote Gillies to the back-up role for his first NHL season.

 

That would be a horrible idea if we are sure to miss the playoffs again but still aim to win games.  But i understand.  For me, i would look towards next season while most fans here would still look at the moment and want to win no matter what.

 

That is what I assumed you meant. I say it's a horrible idea for two reasons. 1- don't ruin or damage young goalies who may have a future by throwing them behind a team that's done for the year and 2- don't keep throwing crappy goalies behind a young team, they need the support. 

 

I wasnt agaisnt the idea of getting future assets it was throwing young rookies behind a team that is out of it. 

[jjgallow]

On 01/12/2016 at 9:33 AM, JTech780 said:

So does anyone still have doubts that Chad Johnson is and will be the number 1 for the remainder of the year? 

 

I would be comfortable seeing a contract extension coming through for this guy tomorrow.

 

At this point for me he is the guy and the guy I want starting going into next year. He has enough of a track record former now to say that when you factor in contract costs and acquisition costs, that he is the best goalie available for us next year.

 

Fleury is available but it will cost us picks, players or prospects, plus I think an extension for Johnson will be cheaper than Fleury's current contract.

 

Bishop is a UFA but he will come with a big ticket payday, and who knows if he really wants to be here beyond the money.

 

Bishop at $7m over 7 years or Johnson at $3m over 3 years. I would take Johnson.

 

Enter the optimist:

 

Basically no.   He is on the tail end of a hot streak, which has temporarily put him in the top 10 in the NHL, but barely.   I'd expect him to be well out of the top 10 in the next 3-5 games.    He's ok...I wouldn't characterize his career as consistent.  He has had hot streaks at other points in his career.  They've lasted roughly this length, and they've tailed off.

 

Maybe I'm wrong.    His last 8 or so games have definitely been better than I'd expected.  But it's a long season.    I would still expect that the biggest factors in him being a #1 are:

 

1.  The play of Elliot

2.   The play of Jon Gillies

3.   Maybe even the play of Riitich???  (doubt this)

 

At some point, Elliot should pick things up.  Jon Gillies has also struggled this year, but is coming off two solid games in a row.   

 

Early in the season, it's been all about Chad Johnson and David Riitich.

 

Unlikely that's how the season will end.

[DirtyDeeds]

UFA's always cost more. If they fill a spot properly then great but no sense complaining after the fact that they cost too much.  BT seems to like to offer the going rate or more plus a min of 3 years. In the case of Engelland it has turned out okay.. Others like Mason Raymond or Setoguchi did not turn out so well.

[JTech780]

2 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

Enter the optimist:

 

Basically no.   He is on the tail end of a hot streak, which has temporarily put him in the top 10 in the NHL, but barely.   I'd expect him to be well out of the top 10 in the next 3-5 games.    He's ok...I wouldn't characterize his career as consistent.  He has had hot streaks at other points in his career.  They've lasted roughly this length, and they've tailed off.

 

Maybe I'm wrong.    His last 8 or so games have definitely been better than I'd expected.  But it's a long season.    I would still expect that the biggest factors in him being a #1 are:

 

1.  The play of Elliot

2.   The play of Jon Gillies

3.   Maybe even the play of Riitich???  (doubt this)

 

At some point, Elliot should pick things up.  Jon Gillies has also struggled this year, but is coming off two solid games in a row.   

 

Early in the season, it's been all about Chad Johnson and David Riitich.

 

Unlikely that's how the season will end.

 

Johnson through 115 career NHL games has a 2.38 GAA and a .918 save %.  Those are very respectable career stats. I disagree that Johnson is just on a hot streak, he put up a .920 save % in 45 games playing for Buffalo last year, Buffalo.

[travel_dude]

4 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

Enter the optimist:

 

Basically no.   He is on the tail end of a hot streak, which has temporarily put him in the top 10 in the NHL, but barely.   I'd expect him to be well out of the top 10 in the next 3-5 games.    He's ok...I wouldn't characterize his career as consistent.  He has had hot streaks at other points in his career.  They've lasted roughly this length, and they've tailed off.

 

Maybe I'm wrong.    His last 8 or so games have definitely been better than I'd expected.  But it's a long season.    I would still expect that the biggest factors in him being a #1 are:

 

1.  The play of Elliot

2.   The play of Jon Gillies

3.   Maybe even the play of Riitich???  (doubt this)

 

At some point, Elliot should pick things up.  Jon Gillies has also struggled this year, but is coming off two solid games in a row.   

 

Early in the season, it's been all about Chad Johnson and David Riitich.

 

Unlikely that's how the season will end.

 

You are correct in saying that things will adjust.  

 

Rittich has been what I expected.  Gillies has struggled a bit and had another injury.  Elliott struggled behind a team unable to play a steady game.  We saw that same team in front of Johnson in Philly.  I don't really expect Johnson to get worse over the season, but his GAA will climb.  At the same time, Elliott's numbers will start to look more like Johnson's.  

 

By the end of the season, we could have the best pair in nets in the league.  I like the fact that BT doubled down.  We would have been sunk with Ortio and/or Ramo at this point.  

[Flyerfan52]

On 12/3/2016 at 10:21 AM, DirtyDeeds said:

UFA's always cost more. If they fill a spot properly then great but no sense complaining after the fact that they cost too much.  BT seems to like to offer the going rate or more plus a min of 3 years. In the case of Engelland it has turned out okay.. Others like Mason Raymond or Setoguchi did not turn out so well.

That depends on if the GM loses his mind July 1 or waits for the market to settle. Players signed as little as a week after the initial frenzy come @ a more reasonable cost/contract.

[Flyerfan52]

On 12/3/2016 at 0:39 PM, JTech780 said:

 

Johnson through 115 career NHL games has a 2.38 GAA and a .918 save %.  Those are very respectable career stats. I disagree that Johnson is just on a hot streak, he put up a .920 save % in 45 games playing for Buffalo last year, Buffalo.

Those 115 games are spread over a 6 year period. 4 games in Phoenix 4 years ago really drove his SV% up.

[ABC923]

Just wondering if Rittich is surpassing Gilles on our depth chart at this point.  He's only played 7 games so far and has a 4-3 record, but leads the league in shutouts (3), GAA (1.43) and Sv% (0.949).  His play has been much stronger than I anticipated.  Gilles has been respectable, but is not ranked in the top 20 in the AHL right now.

[robrob74]

Can't deny that he has been playing well for the past two seasons and it is possible that Johnson has just figured it out. 

 

Johnson is very calm and composed and uses his size to his advantage. He barely gets rattled and rarely gets out of position.

 

For goalies it takes a little longer and the fact that he only played 115 games in the NHL tells me he had to pay his dues and figure out the game in the AHL. 

 

 

[DirtyDeeds]

48 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

Can't deny that he has been playing well for the past two seasons and it is possible that Johnson has just figured it out. 

 

Johnson is very calm and composed and uses his size to his advantage. He barely gets rattled and rarely gets out of position.

 

For goalies it takes a little longer and the fact that he only played 115 games in the NHL tells me he had to pay his dues and figure out the game in the AHL. 

 

 

There was a time when goalies rarely came into their own until about age 30.  These days however some pundits feel they are over the hill at age 30. I am old school who thinks new school is usually more hype than substance.

[JTech780]

1 hour ago, Flyerfan52 said:

Those 115 games are spread over a 6 year period. 4 games in Phoenix 4 years ago really drove his SV% up.

Take away those 4 games and his career save % is .917.

[robrob74]

8 hours ago, DirtyDeeds said:

There was a time when goalies rarely came into their own until about age 30.  These days however some pundits feel they are over the hill at age 30. I am old school who thinks new school is usually more hype than substance.

 

I think it's just too hard to judge. Even though the game has changed a lot recently, and in the time of Roloson. But he came into his own in his 30s and played competitively until he was 40. Even if Johnson is turning into a #1 - not saying he is, but it's possible - he could still have a lot in him... If it is only 6 or 7 years, that's still a pretty decent amount of time to be a starter, around 300 games.

[travel_dude]

8 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

I think it's just too hard to judge. Even though the game has changed a lot recently, and in the time of Roloson. But he came into his own in his 30s and played competitively until he was 40. Even if Johnson is turning into a #1 - not saying he is, but it's possible - he could still have a lot in him... If it is only 6 or 7 years, that's still a pretty decent amount of time to be a starter, around 300 games.

 

As much as the team has confidence in the goalie right now, they can't just run him until he starts losing.  They need to use both goalies and have them both playing at a top level.  As well, they have a total of 82 games to manage, so we need to make sure that we have two goalie capable of playing as a #1, in case there are any injuries.  

[robrob74]

6 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

As much as the team has confidence in the goalie right now, they can't just run him until he starts losing.  They need to use both goalies and have them both playing at a top level.  As well, they have a total of 82 games to manage, so we need to make sure that we have two goalie capable of playing as a #1, in case there are any injuries.  

 

Exactly. I was just defending Johnson's play. I know that he had a lot to prove still, but he is playing really well, close to a #1.... 

 

i want to get Elliott going as well. I hope to get an even more intense battles between the pipes.