cccsberg Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 Why would Pittsburgh want to separate a strong tandem? How much are they both being paid? Expansion Draft. If it goes, it opens up the whole goalie market, whether directly with current teams or with the expansion team via a post-draft trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 Why would Pittsburgh want to separate a strong tandem? How much are they both being paid? For next season not much. Fleury makes 5.7 and Murray about 700K. The expansion draft could force them but eventually if you want to turn the net over to Murray you need to trade fleury. Can't afford that much in a tandem and I don't suspect both are going to be ok not being the starter. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kehatch Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 Right , but what Im saying is the goalies we likely covet wont be affected by the expansion. If I have a UFA. I'm protecting the other guy, If a team is serious about re-signing them they will. Just because they get chosen doesnt mean they go there. UFA is a GM's best friend when it comes to an Expansion draft If Im Pittsburgh i protect Murray and Expose MAF. or trade him, but we dont want him If I'm St Louis, I protect the RFA Allen and expose Elliot If Im the flyers, I protect Neuvirth and HOPE someone takes Mason If Im tampa I protect Vasilevsky , expose Bishop and resign him if that's what i want to do Anaheim will trade Andersen, Im just saying we wont be their first choice to do so Colorado protects Varlamov, guaranteed what team and what goalie do you think we're gonna have over a barrel to take advantage of ? maybe Markstrom in Vancouver? unless they get rid of Miller, but we dont want him either There are plenty of teams that have two good goalies that need to be protected. Andersen + Gibson. Bishop + Vasilevskey. Fleury + Murray. Etc. There will be more teams selling then teams buying if expansion goes through because nobody wants to lose a great asset for nothing. There will also be goalies available that otherwise wouldn't be. Even without expansion there are goalies available. But if expansion happens the Flames are in great shape as buyers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nevermissashift Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 For next season not much. Fleury makes 5.7 and Murray about 700K. The expansion draft could force them but eventually if you want to turn the net over to Murray you need to trade fleury. Can't afford that much in a tandem and I don't suspect both are going to be ok not being the starter. 5.7 is quite a bit. Do you think Calgary can find that kind of dough? How much is Ramo making? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 5.7 is quite a bit. Do you think Calgary can find that kind of dough? How much is Ramo making? Ramo is a free agent so his salary doesn't matter. Yes I think they can easily find it. It's priorities and I think a number 1 goalie is the type you find room for. Might mean trading someone they didn't want to, Engelland fir examples, but they could find a way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 There are plenty of teams that have two good goalies that need to be protected. Andersen + Gibson. Bishop + Vasilevskey. Fleury + Murray. Etc. There will be more teams selling then teams buying if expansion goes through because nobody wants to lose a great asset for nothing. There will also be goalies available that otherwise wouldn't be. Even without expansion there are goalies available. But if expansion happens the Flames are in great shape as buyers. I addressed each of the combos you mentioned.but I'll say it again.. Bishop being UFA helps Tampa to protect Vasilevsky and still resign Bishop Andersen will be moved but we're unlikely to get him if a team in the east so much as makes an offer Murray will be protected and we don't want Fleury.. And to answer Cross's question it's because he's already declining, close to a 6m cap hit and will be an albatross before its over. When he's good he's good but when he's bad he's very bad. Especially in the playoffs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kehatch Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 I addressed each of the combos you mentioned.but I'll say it again.. Bishop being UFA helps Tampa to protect Vasilevsky and still resign Bishop Andersen will be moved but we're unlikely to get him if a team in the east so much as makes an offer Murray will be protected and we don't want Fleury.. And to answer Cross's question it's because he's already declining, close to a 6m cap hit and will be an albatross before its over. When he's good he's good but when he's bad he's very bad. Especially in the playoffs You said it. But I don't agree with any of it. Teams can't afford to keep two starting caliber goalies even without an expansion. To suggest that goalies wouldn't become available if the league only allows you to protect one is wrong imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 .. And to answer Cross's question it's because he's already declining, close to a 6m cap hit and will be an albatross before its over. When he's good he's good but when he's bad he's very bad. Especially in the playoffs MAF was top 10, mostly top 8 actually, in ever major goalie category. Wins, shutouts, GAA and save percentage when you look at the starting goalies in the NHL. He is not declining not at all actually. He's only got a 3 year deal so even if he clubs a little year by year he would be an above avg goalie for the next 3 years and gives a chance for Gilles or Macdonald to take the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 Ramo is a free agent so his salary doesn't matter. Yes I think they can easily find it. It's priorities and I think a number 1 goalie is the type you find room for. Might mean trading someone they didn't want to, Engelland fir examples, but they could find a way. you....think....emgelland will fetch a number 1? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 you....think....emgelland will fetch a number 1? Read the post again. "find it" as in salary cap room. Trading a guy making $2.9m to make room. Maybe you are just being obtuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 Read the post again. "find it" as in salary cap room. Trading a guy making $2.9m to make room. Maybe you are just being obtuse. Ah.....I should have! No, I just read it too quickly and thought I'd ask. If they Could trade Engelland....then...yeah. Definitely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 Ah.....I should have! No, I just read it too quickly and thought I'd ask. If they Could trade Engelland....then...yeah. Definitely. Engelland for Andersen. Done. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nevermissashift Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 Engelland for Andersen. Done. Fearless Leader: Badenov, you know why I called you in on this job? Boris: Because I'm trustworthy, loyal, brave, and efficient? Fearless Leader: No, because you work cheap. Boris: That too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted April 26, 2016 Report Share Posted April 26, 2016 Engelland for Andersen. Done. Goaltending Issues: Solved 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nevermissashift Posted April 26, 2016 Report Share Posted April 26, 2016 Goaltending Issues: Solved RIGHT ON LOL LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LouCifer Posted April 27, 2016 Report Share Posted April 27, 2016 I addressed each of the combos you mentioned.but I'll say it again.. Bishop being UFA helps Tampa to protect Vasilevsky and still resign Bishop Andersen will be moved but we're unlikely to get him if a team in the east so much as makes an offer Murray will be protected and we don't want Fleury.. And to answer Cross's question it's because he's already declining, close to a 6m cap hit and will be an albatross before its over. When he's good he's good but when he's bad he's very bad. Especially in the playoffs Hey Phoenix, I do agree with you regarding Andersen, as I've also mentioned in a previous post that I don't think we can compete with Toronto due to their Eastern geography and wealth of picks to use as currency this year. Matt Murray - I'm hoping that GM Jim Rutherford sticks to his MO as cited in this article: Rutherford predicted he will have the Penguins job for no more than two or three years. That’s probably a reflection of the franchise’s win-now-or-else mentality more than of his age. “This certainly isn’t a rebuild,” Morehouse said. If Rutherford doesn’t get the team deeper in the playoffs than Shero did the past five seasons — and do it quickly — he, too, will be fired. Rutherford was brought in by Pittsburgh to win another championship. I'm clinging to hope and a prayer that they stick to the goalie that's won them a championship before, and that the heart-strings of Pittsburgh run so long for MAF that they protect him over Matt Murray in the event of expansion - opening up trade opportunities. Pittsburgh doesn't have a 1st or 3rd rounder in this year's draft btw. Go Dallas! Lastly, I've read a few articles indicating TB's desire to turn to Vasilevskiy as their #1, and I don't foresee Bishop re-signing with TB as a UFA (likely at a pay cut because Vasilevskiy's contract will be coming up the following year) and hanging around to split duties with Vasilevskiy. Removing almost $6mil, Bishop's salary will also help TB remain competitive and keep the players they desire. From what I understand, Tampa Bay is not a cap team and this summer they need to do some housekeeping on their end regarding their own RFAs and UFAs like: Stamkos (of course) - and if he walks, yes, they'll have some decisions to make about how to divide that $7mil among the following players: Forwards: Killorn RFA JT Brown RFA V Namestnikov RFA N Kucherov RFA C Paquette RFA J Marchessault UFA (VI) M Blunden UFA Defense: N Nesterov RFA M Taormina UFA Non Roster players: 6 RFAs 4 UFAs From my perspective, there are bound to be casualties in that list... Now, if TB can get rid of Matt Carle's contract ($5.5mil x 2 more seasons) it'll help significantly in this regard.... however, if moving Matt Carle proves difficult, TB can always deal from a position of strength - goaltending. So, IMHO, I believe there is a realistic opportunity to pry Bishop out of TB and I don't think it'll be an extreme cost because - he will be a UFA at the year's end - his salary is pretty high for a team to take on - the financial flexibility TB gains in order to deal with their housekeeping 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted April 27, 2016 Report Share Posted April 27, 2016 Hey Phoenix, I've read a few articles indicating TB's desire to turn to Vasilevskiy as their #1, and I don't foresee Bishop re-signing with TB as a UFA (likely at a pay cut because Vasilevskiy's contract will be coming up the following year) and hanging around to split duties with Vasilevskiy. At almost $6mil, Bishop's salary will also help TB remain competitive and keep the players they desire. From what I understand, Tampa Bay is not a cap team and this summer they need to do some housekeeping on their end regarding their own RFAs and UFAs like: Stamkos (of course) - and if he walks, yes, they'll have some decisions to make about how to divide that $7mil among the following players: Forwards: Killorn RFA JT Brown RFA V Namestnikov RFA N Kucherov RFA C Paquette RFA J Marchessault UFA (VI) M Blunden UFA Defense: N Nesterov RFA M Taormina UFA Non Roster players: 6 RFAs 4 UFAs From my perspective, there are bound to be casualties in that list... Now, if TB can get rid of Matt Carle's contract ($5.5mil x 2 more seasons) it'll help significantly in this regard.... however, if moving Matt Carle proves difficult, TB can always deal from a position of strength - goaltending. So, IMHO, I believe there is a realistic opportunity to pry Bishop out of TB and I don't think it'll be an extreme cost because - he will be a UFA at the year's end - his salary is pretty high for a team to take on - the financial flexibility TB gains in order to deal with their housekeeping Everyone keeps taking this angle on TB and forgetting that they have grown to be a solid contender in the East. I have little doubt Stamko's will move on however the team is proving to be very good without him. If TB wants to remain a contender you stay with proven experience and Bishop provides this for them. If I'm BT I would be asking if we have what it takes to get Vasilevsky. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LouCifer Posted April 27, 2016 Report Share Posted April 27, 2016 Everyone keeps taking this angle on TB and forgetting that they have grown to be a solid contender in the East. I have little doubt Stamko's will move on however the team is proving to be very good without him. If TB wants to remain a contender you stay with proven experience and Bishop provides this for them. If I'm BT I would be asking if we have what it takes to get Vasilevsky. Agreed MAC. I think we tend to look at it that way because of Bishop's salary, and the tendency to not trade young players with high potential. I guess it's easier for me to see a team move out a high priced vet over the younger/cheaper option with similar potential. If Vasilevskiy is available, yes BT should be barking up that tree feverishly as well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nevermissashift Posted April 27, 2016 Report Share Posted April 27, 2016 HEY lou44291 HEY MAC331 I hope either one of you is right. That would sound like a solid kickstart to next season! It will be fun to see how The Dolts do in the next round and how that might affect thing$ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted April 27, 2016 Report Share Posted April 27, 2016 HEY lou44291 HEY MAC331 I hope either one of you is right. That would sound like a solid kickstart to next season! It will be fun to see how The Dolts do in the next round and how that might affect thing$ I would like to see a young goalie that could grow up with this core. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted April 27, 2016 Report Share Posted April 27, 2016 From what I understand, Tampa Bay is not a cap team and this summer they need to do some housekeeping on their end regarding their own RFAs and UFAs like: Tampa currently has the 4th highest cap hit in the NHL and has been in the top 10 since the last lockout. Jeff Vinik since he bought the team has always maintained the resources are there to contend. I do agree with the rest of what you said though, the Lightning are going to have a busy offseason and some tough decisions. Everyone talkes about Stamkos but Kuchervo's next deal is NOT going to be cheap. If Stamkos does end up walking they will have to pay Kucherov a good chunk of the money they will save with Stamkos and then they have Hedman to deal with next offseaon, Going to be tough. I personally dont' think they would trade Bishop though. I get they have Vasilevsky and could save some money but for a team whose best window is probably the next 3 years so so do you want to trade an elite goalie in the hopes you have another Elite goalie in the fold? Pretty risky proposition IMO. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted April 27, 2016 Report Share Posted April 27, 2016 Tampa currently has the 4th highest cap hit in the NHL and has been in the top 10 since the last lockout. Jeff Vinik since he bought the team has always maintained the resources are there to contend. I do agree with the rest of what you said though, the Lightning are going to have a busy offseason and some tough decisions. Everyone talkes about Stamkos but Kuchervo's next deal is NOT going to be cheap. If Stamkos does end up walking they will have to pay Kucherov a good chunk of the money they will save with Stamkos and then they have Hedman to deal with next offseaon, Going to be tough. I personally dont' think they would trade Bishop though. I get they have Vasilevsky and could save some money but for a team whose best window is probably the next 3 years so so do you want to trade an elite goalie in the hopes you have another Elite goalie in the fold? Pretty risky proposition IMO. Would something like Ortio, Poirier and a 2nd rd pick get us Vasilevsky ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted April 27, 2016 Report Share Posted April 27, 2016 Would something like Ortio, Poirier and a 2nd rd pick get us Vasilevsky ? I would be quite surprised. I don't see them having interest in Ortio and I feel like you would need to give them NHL ready talent, not prospect/picks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted April 27, 2016 Report Share Posted April 27, 2016 I would be quite surprised. I don't see them having interest in Ortio and I feel like you would need to give them NHL ready talent, not prospect/picks So what do we have that would work IYO ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted April 27, 2016 Report Share Posted April 27, 2016 So what do we have that would work IYO ? Varlamov is your closest comparable and he cost a first round pick and a 2nd round pick. I think a first round pick is likely the starting point for discussions its what else would be included. I think you are something like a 1st round plus at least 1 maybe 2 assets from a list like this: Ferland Shinkaruk 2nd round 3rd rounder Jokipakka Wotherspoon. maybe Jankowski I think a package in and around that is probably your main discussion point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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