Goaltending

[cross16]

again , see my post above.. if you are those teams, why would you trade any of those goalies before next years TDL?

Because you very likely get more for them in the offseason. At trade deadline how many teams are shopping for number one netminders? Why would contending teams pay up for someone who is going to be their backup? How many teams have a roster spot to take on a goalie?

When it comes to goalies I think you ar better to trade in the offseason. You'll have a much better bidding war then you would at the trade deadline, generally speaking.

[Flyerfan52]

well.. a .918 would be an improvement to our bunch. My biggest knock on Reimer is he has yet to play a full season . I wouldn't be upset if we ended up with him. 

I see Reimer as a good backup @ best.

He was paid 2.3 last year. Given the very limited market I'd offer 1-1.5 but no higher.

[phoenix66]

These same teams with a good tandem, could just as easily trade one of those two because they will only be able protect one. If there are teams looking now or over the summer, then that could easily represent the best opportunity to get a decent return instead of waiting to the last minute for a firesale of the goalies they are not able to protect.

This years draft is unlikely , since it wont even be known yet if there will be an expansion yet .Possibly in the summer for cap reasons. But i still dont think the Big targets will be attainable early enough for this season 

Because you very likely get more for them in the offseason. At trade deadline how many teams are shopping for number one netminders? Why would contending teams pay up for someone who is going to be their backup? How many teams have a roster spot to take on a goalie?

When it comes to goalies I think you ar better to trade in the offseason. You'll have a much better bidding war then you would at the trade deadline, generally speaking.

Thats my point , its a sellers market .. not a buyers market . BT wont pay through the nose for what he wants 

[tincup1]

well.. a .918 would be an improvement to our bunch. My biggest knock on Reimer is he has yet to play a full season . I wouldn't be upset if we ended up with him. 

 

I wouldn't be upset either.  He's solid and the right age.  This talk of expansion is really costing him $$$ as the best UFA on the market.  If Calgary can't make a trade for a good up and comer, I'd settle for Reimer. Not sure what it would take but I think his price probably has come down from $4ish to maybe $3 ish.  If they could get him in the 3-4 range for 2 years, I'd be all over it.

[travel_dude]

This years draft is unlikely , since it wont even be known yet if there will be an expansion yet .Possibly in the summer for cap reasons. But i still dont think the Big targets will be attainable early enough for this season 

Thats my point , its a sellers market .. not a buyers market . BT wont pay through the nose for what he wants 

 

Bettman has already said that they will announce prior to the draft if the expansion goes in 2017.  So they will either know or it won't happen in 2017.

 

Whether it's a sellers market or not, BT has to get a #1 goalie.  That is a given.  He will only go the UFA route if there is a guy that he wants there.  

[DirtyDeeds]

This years draft is unlikely , since it wont even be known yet if there will be an expansion yet .Possibly in the summer for cap reasons. But i still dont think the Big targets will be attainable early enough for this season 

Thats my point , its a sellers market .. not a buyers market . BT wont pay through the nose for what he wants 

If there is going to be an expansion draft, notice of it it will likely come before this years draft. Maybe from the board of governors meetings around the beginning of June.

 

There is no way you can do an expansion draft next year on short notice.

[robrob1974]

If there is going to be an expansion draft, notice of it it will likely come before this years draft. Maybe from the board of governors meetings around the beginning of June.

There is no way you can do an expansion draft next year on short notice.

If there's an expansion draft next year, can the expansion team(s) draft this year?

I guess they need longer to prepare for that.

I think it would be interesting and cool if they could. It would give their prospects an extra year to develop.

[DirtyDeeds]

If there's an expansion draft next year, can the expansion team(s) draft this year?

I guess they need longer to prepare for that.

I think it would be interesting and cool if they could. It would give their prospects an extra year to develop.

It is a cool idea but I don't think Quebec is ready and Las Vegas well is it really a good idea to give either of them a head start? Apparently the Quebec group was fine when our $$ was higher... not so much now as things are really quiet. Vegas seems ready to go.. Arena almost finished, seasons tickets sold. Waiting patiently.

[robrob1974]

It is a cool idea but I don't think Quebec is ready and Las Vegas well is it really a good idea to give either of them a head start? Apparently the Quebec group was fine when our $$ was higher... not so much now as things are really quiet. Vegas seems ready to go.. Arena almost finished, seasons tickets sold. Waiting patiently.

It could mean we get a lower pick. But I think it's a great idea.

But look at how long it took San Jose, Ottawa, Atlanta and other expansion teams to get things looking respectable.

I wonder if Quebec backs out.

[DirtyDeeds]

It could mean we get a lower pick. But I think it's a great idea.

But look at how long it took San Jose, Ottawa, Atlanta and other expansion teams to get things looking respectable.

I wonder if Quebec backs out.

When the NHL announced the recent framework for an expansion they were specific in saying it was designed to give expansion teams a better running start and not like previous expansions where they were basically fodder for the rest of the league.

[jjgallow]

I think it's a great idea if you know, for sure, that there will be an expansion team playing next year at the start of the season.

 

With Auston Matthews, etc....that would have to be a requirement.   

[robrob1974]

When the NHL announced the recent framework for an expansion they were specific in saying it was designed to give expansion teams a better running start and not like previous expansions where they were basically fodder for the rest of the league.

I think you or someone else mentioned that before.

If that were the case, where would you slot them in the 1st round?

[DirtyDeeds]

I think you or someone else mentioned that before.

If that were the case, where would you slot them in the 1st round?

Me personally I would slot them with the #1 and #2 picks but for the simple reason that the Oilers can't get at the top picks. then make sure the remainder had to go through the 3 lotto draws.

[cross16]

I think you or someone else mentioned that before.

If that were the case, where would you slot them in the 1st round?

 

 

Assuming that expansion was a go for the 2017-2018 season I would let them draft this year but draft at the end of each round like the CFL did with the REDBLACKS. I think that is less controversly for the rest of the league but it won't cost other teams top prospects but still allows the expansion teams to get a head start on their stable of prospects. I think the draft prior to them actually joining the league then they should be included in the lottery with non playoff teams and I think give them the same odds as the 3rd/4th ranked teams. 

[robrob1974]

What about treating them like a non-playoff team and allow them to draft 15th and 16th, if there's controversy?

[kehatch]

I agree with the idea in theory. But practically speaking how does a team support a draft without a GM, scouts, etc in place. That isn't even talking about all of the other things that need to happen to have a team that is legal and recognized by the league. Seems like a pretty short turn around to make that happen.

[cross16]

I agree with the idea in theory. But practically speaking how does a team support a draft without a GM, scouts, etc in place. That isn't even talking about all of the other things that need to happen to have a team that is legal and recognized by the league. Seems like a pretty short turn around to make that happen.

 

I should have added that I agree its not realistic, not if the expansion team is set to begin play 2017-18. The GM would have to be in place already but I just think its a real good idea in theory and its too bad the NHL can't adopt it. Just helps gives them a better chance to get competitive in a shorter time frame.

[Flyerfan52]

I agree with the idea in theory. But practically speaking how does a team support a draft without a GM, scouts, etc in place. That isn't even talking about all of the other things that need to happen to have a team that is legal and recognized by the league. Seems like a pretty short turn around to make that happen.

Foley says he's got a GM all but signed awaiting confirmation of a franchise.

Drafting in the 1st is easy. Just ask Edmonton.

[cross16]

 

 

I think Reimer could do worse here, but that's just me, as I think Babcock may coach defensive systems a bit more than Hartley.

 

Some food for thought, Leafs gave up more shots against per game than the Flames and 5 on 5 the Flames gave up less scoring chances a game, and they were basically tied for high danger scoring chances again. The likelihood of Reimer playing worse here is pretty small given that the Flames are actually a better defensive team than the Leafs.

 

People are putting too much weight into the team defence of the Flames and sometimes if you read this thread you would think the Flames are the worst defensive team every to play the game. The Flames were 11th in the league in shots against/game and were better than the Blackhaws, Panthers and Rangers. However, they were 7th worst in scoring chances 5 on 5 and 5th last in high danger scoring chances. However (again), the difference is very small. If the Flames were to give up 2 less scoring chances a game and 1 less high danger scoring chance they are right next to teams such as the Blues and Blackhawks. This concept that the Flames are so poor defensively is very, very misleading especially when you look at 5 on 5. That is not near enough of a gap to account for such a large discrepancy in Save % between what the Flames got out of their net minders versus what other clubs get. 

 

The problem is not 5 on 5 it is the PK. The Flames were the worst team in the league by ever decent measure. PK %, scoring chances against and high quality scoring chances against (per 60 mins) they were dead last in all 3 of those and in some cases by a decent margin.  

 

The Flames need to fix their PK that is your culprit. This notion of let's not pursue a very good goalie becuase they won't have success here is in fact, false. The Flames have a good enough defensive team 5 on 5 for a good goalie to come here and post respectable numbers, it's the PK they really need to fix. 

[MAC331]

Some food for thought, Leafs gave up more shots against per game than the Flames and 5 on 5 the Flames gave up less scoring chances a game, and they were basically tied for high danger scoring chances again. The likelihood of Reimer playing worse here is pretty small given that the Flames are actually a better defensive team than the Leafs.

 

People are putting too much weight into the team defence of the Flames and sometimes if you read this thread you would think the Flames are the worst defensive team every to play the game. The Flames were 11th in the league in shots against/game and were better than the Blackhaws, Panthers and Rangers. However, they were 7th worst in scoring chances 5 on 5 and 5th last in high danger scoring chances. However (again), the difference is very small. If the Flames were to give up 2 less scoring chances a game and 1 less high danger scoring chance they are right next to teams such as the Blues and Blackhawks. This concept that the Flames are so poor defensively is very, very misleading especially when you look at 5 on 5. That is not near enough of a gap to account for such a large discrepancy in Save % between what the Flames got out of their net minders versus what other clubs get. 

 

The problem is not 5 on 5 it is the PK. The Flames were the worst team in the league by ever decent measure. PK %, scoring chances against and high quality scoring chances against (per 60 mins) they were dead last in all 3 of those and in some cases by a decent margin.  

 

The Flames need to fix their PK that is your culprit. This notion of let's not pursue a very good goalie becuase they won't have success here is in fact, false. The Flames have a good enough defensive team 5 on 5 for a good goalie to come here and post respectable numbers, it's the PK they really need to fix. 

Who is saying to not persue a very good goalie ? I think most everyone realises we need GOOD goaltending. Do we need Bishop good or are there others who will do the job at 4M. Are you suggesting we seriously consider Reimer ? I wouldn't rule I'm out. I believe on the overall team defense theme we actually can solve some of this with better puck possession for ourselves.

[robrob1974]

Cross, I think in game situations are different. You can spout out all the numbers you want, but when you're giving up the opportunities this team does, it's going to end up in the back of the net more times than not.

We still have to account for how many brain farts that happen in a game leaving guys wide open back door, etc...

Like Mac says, I am not, as others aren't too, advocating against getting a goalie, I am merely stating this team has a lot of work to do away from the puck to change. It's also a matter of when these things happen.

I am not looking at stats like you to justify things, but in the eye, it's what I see.

Game situations are different and it depends on who gets the chances.

If we give up one less chance but are giving up the other chances to their bests, it's likely going to be in the back of the net.

I do agree though, on the defensive end, we need to stop giving up chances,

As a team, goalies included, there needs to be change and better defensive play.

[phoenix66]

So based on BT's presser yesterday,Backstrom and Hiller have both already been told they won't be back(no shock there), Ramo however was not told that. His comments sounded more in his own decision "we will see closet to then what direction management is leaning"

He did reiterate strongly that goaltending is a priority, but obviously at this point has not ruled out Ramo returning.

Interesting too that he did not give Hartley a vote of confidence, saying "All areas will need to be evaluated and we will be doing that"

[tmac70]

Goaltending there were just to many waffles going in from bad positions. Coaching is/was an issue as well, you can't have stats that put you last in the league in PK/PP that is 100% coaching.

 

We need a goaltender no question, we also need a better structured system with our Dman. GIo, Hamilton and Brodie are in the top 7 on this club with scoring. I am all for joining the rush, however thinking offensively for a dman leaves poor coverage. How many times did turnovers kill us because everyone flew the zone.  

 

You have to also put some of this on the GM as well. Starting the season with 3 goalies was just wrong. Not moving players out in off season in Wideman, Hiller, Hudler after career years was wishful thinking. Similar to this year, Gio, Brodie, Ham, Backs and Colburne had great years.

[MAC331]

Goaltending there were just to many waffles going in from bad positions. Coaching is/was an issue as well, you can't have stats that put you last in the league in PK/PP that is 100% coaching.

 

We need a goaltender no question, we also need a better structured system with our Dman. GIo, Hamilton and Brodie are in the top 7 on this club with scoring. I am all for joining the rush, however thinking offensively for a dman leaves poor coverage. How many times did turnovers kill us because everyone flew the zone.  

 

You have to also put some of this on the GM as well. Starting the season with 3 goalies was just wrong. Not moving players out in off season in Wideman, Hiller, Hudler after career years was wishful thinking. Similar to this year, Gio, Brodie, Ham, Backs and Colburne had great years.

Should he trade all 5 you mentioned this offseason ?

[cross16]

Cross, I think in game situations are different. You can spout out all the numbers you want, but when you're giving up the opportunities this team does, it's going to end up in the back of the net more times than not.

We still have to account for how many brain farts that happen in a game leaving guys wide open back door, etc...

Like Mac says, I am not, as others aren't too, advocating against getting a goalie, I am merely stating this team has a lot of work to do away from the puck to change. It's also a matter of when these things happen.

I am not looking at stats like you to justify things, but in the eye, it's what I see.

Game situations are different and it depends on who gets the chances.

If we give up one less chance but are giving up the other chances to their bests, it's likely going to be in the back of the net.

I do agree though, on the defensive end, we need to stop giving up chances,

As a team, goalies included, there needs to be change and better defensive play.

 

As i said, and have said multiple times, yes the Flames need to improve play in their own zone there is no question about that. The point was though is let's stop acting like this is the worst defensive team in the league when there is ZERO stats to back up that up. Every team in the league gives up chances so if you goal is for the Flames to play a type of game that gives up zero chances well, good luck because it isn't happening. The Flames need to do a better job of limiting chances yes but mainly on the PK and not as much 5 on 5. 

 

My other point is trying to use the "lack of D" as an argument as to why goaltending was bad is also wrong IMO. There were multiple teams, probably around 6 or 7 team, that gave up more quantity and quality of scoring chances this year than the Flames. Yet all of them had better goal tending numbers and in most cases not just by a little either. I'll repeat again for emphasis, yes the D needs to play better and the Flames have issues to fix in their own zone but that is no excuse for how poor the goaltending was this year. That is the point I am trying to make and its the theme I find very dissapointing in this thread. I get people don't want to only upgrade goaltending and not forget about how the Flames play in their own zone, but let's also not lose sight of the fact that goaltending is by far and away the biggest need on this club and they would have had much better results had they had better goaltending. 

 

When you read stuff like Reimer wouldn't play as well here, or that Bishop would go from being a Vezina calibre goalie to a below average starter because the Flames are so bad at D, it's gets really silly. They are not that bad. 

 

Add on: This isn't me just going by stats either this is what I saw and what I feel its just backed up by stats. All year long i've said that while the D could and should play better the goaltending was for the most part awful. Stats just happen to back me up here.