travel_dude Posted March 27, 2016 Report Share Posted March 27, 2016 So out of that, who do we have for our top line? You've pointed out that it's not Giordano. I don't see T.J. Brodie up there. He would be one of the first 4-goal scorers on an NHL top line. Hamilton maybe? I don't see any player or prospect in our system capable of assuming Gio's spot at any point in their career. And someone Will have to. So, our first line LD position, imho, is in more uncertain shape than our position at net (which at least has Gilles. and I'll throw in Ortio). Am I missing someone there? Is that not kind of an important position? On our 2nd D line, I think we can rely on T.J. Brodie for LD for some time, yes. Who do we have for our 2nd line on RD? All I see with a real shot is Rasmus Andersson with any sort of projection to that position. Rasmus, quite frankly, is below average size for that position, and struggled somewhat this year. http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=86137 That's 2 open spots out of 4 that I'm not able to account for in our future. Including a first line spot. Like, that I don't see any good outcome for, given our current pipeline. Maybe Gio falls into the 2nd LD? for a while anyway. Perhaps you don't believe that Brodie is a top 2 D-man because he only has 4 goals; 42 points in 63 games is nothing to snicker at. Brodie has faced the toughest competition for most of the season on RD. If you consider Dougie to be the true top pair RD, then Brodie becomes the top pair LD. Gio can easily maintain the 2nd paid LD, as it gets easier competition and zone starts. Who is the potential RD? Have a few options. Andersson is a RHS, and would be able to learn from the best, with favourable sheltering. Others in the system with a realistic top 4 LD spot? Hickey Kylington Ollas-Mattsson Wotherspoon (has to take big steps to get there) Kulak Culkin Most of those guys are years away from their prime, as is typical with D-men. Would you say you knew 4 years ago that Brodie would be top line material? Back in junior, he scored less than Andersson did the last two seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheersMan Posted March 27, 2016 Report Share Posted March 27, 2016 So out of that, who do we have for our top line? You've pointed out that it's not Giordano. I don't see T.J. Brodie up there. He would be one of the first 4-goal scorers on an NHL top line. Hamilton maybe? I don't see any player or prospect in our system capable of assuming Gio's spot at any point in their career. And someone Will have to. So, our first line LD position, imho, is in more uncertain shape than our position at net (which at least has Gilles. and I'll throw in Ortio). Am I missing someone there? Is that not kind of an important position? On our 2nd D line, I think we can rely on T.J. Brodie for LD for some time, yes. Who do we have for our 2nd line on RD? All I see with a real shot is Rasmus Andersson with any sort of projection to that position. Rasmus, quite frankly, is below average size for that position, and struggled somewhat this year. http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=86137 That's 2 open spots out of 4 that I'm not able to account for in our future. Including a first line spot. Like, that I don't see any good outcome for, given our current pipeline. Maybe Gio falls into the 2nd LD? for a while anyway. Your infatuation with defense years down the road is redundant. What we have are 3 cornerstone pieces that will carry this team for years to come. Gio could be here for 6 years, if all goes well Hamilton and Brodie will deserve extensions 4-5 yrs down the road. The remaining lesser vacancies will be filled by natural progression or possibly UFA signings and trades. Our defense is in great shape. We presently have a gapping hole in net, lets not get side tracked on what the team truly needs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlbertaBoy12 Posted March 27, 2016 Report Share Posted March 27, 2016 So out of that, who do we have for our top line? You've pointed out that it's not Giordano. I don't see T.J. Brodie up there. He would be one of the first 4-goal scorers on an NHL top line. Hamilton maybe? I don't see any player or prospect in our system capable of assuming Gio's spot at any point in their career. And someone Will have to. So, our first line LD position, imho, is in more uncertain shape than our position at net (which at least has Gilles. and I'll throw in Ortio). Am I missing someone there? Is that not kind of an important position? On our 2nd D line, I think we can rely on T.J. Brodie for LD for some time, yes. Who do we have for our 2nd line on RD? All I see with a real shot is Rasmus Andersson with any sort of projection to that position. Rasmus, quite frankly, is below average size for that position, and struggled somewhat this year. http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=86137 That's 2 open spots out of 4 that I'm not able to account for in our future. Including a first line spot. Like, that I don't see any good outcome for, given our current pipeline. Maybe Gio falls into the 2nd LD? for a while anyway. http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=89731 Jig I give you drew doughty. I dont see why brodie has to score a ton of goals to be a top tier D man, Yes he never has exaclty 4 goals in a season, but look around the league top tier D men dont have to score a ton of goals that is never their job. IF I have a pairing of brodie and hamilton as my top pairing im not worried as I think hamilton will score plenty of goals for the two of them. DId I mention the hamilton/brodie pairing was pretty dahm good last night? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted March 27, 2016 Report Share Posted March 27, 2016 Most of those guys are years away from their prime, as is typical with D-men. Would you say you knew 4 years ago that Brodie would be top line material? Back in junior, he scored less than Andersson did the last two seasons. Well maybe that's where we're coming to a fundamental disagreement. You're absolutely right about Brodie, I didn't really see it coming. And stats wise, size wise....most things wise, he was absolutely not a top 4 projection. But you're using Brodie, one of the luckiest things that ever happened here, as a recipe for future D. Like we can just turn anyone from C-grade to A-grade. Cause we did it once. That's not a real plan, to me. Of all the players you listed in your last post, only One of them have top 4 projection on RD (Andersson). To be totally honest, he hasn't, in my mind, progressed this year like I'd hoped he would. Everyone else with the exception of Kylington (left) is well short of a top 4 projection. Kylington has also struggled this year and is currently difficult to read as an AHL rookie. I don't see how your arguement holds, without the belief that we will continue to just pump out TJ Brodies out of thin air. And yeah..... It could happen. That would be great. But that's a lot to pin our future on. P.S...... Brodie, even when he was acquired...was "special". Scouts, fans on here, all saw this special compete level in him. After Gio, he was ALWAYS that Other component we had (let's not think too much about Erixon). I don't see that in any of our current D prospects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted March 27, 2016 Report Share Posted March 27, 2016 Back to goaltending: Watched Ortio last night, was impressed. He was boring. IMHO. In other words, great puck control (I know he's let a few go in the past), great rebound control. Against arguably the best team in the league, he gave the Flames a chance to win, and kept things Un-insteresting. It wasn't just the saves. It was the passes behind the net that kept the Flames shot count above Chicago's. It was the rebound control. That also comes with the team starting to get a sense of his habits. Darling was the better goaltender that night, but not by a mile. I would say that Ortio, at 24, was the better goaltender than Darling at 24. (now 27). JMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted March 27, 2016 Report Share Posted March 27, 2016 Back to goaltending: Watched Ortio last night, was impressed. He was boring. IMHO. In other words, great puck control (I know he's let a few go in the past), great rebound control. Against arguably the best team in the league, he gave the Flames a chance to win, and kept things Un-insteresting. It wasn't just the saves. It was the passes behind the net that kept the Flames shot count above Chicago's. It was the rebound control. That also comes with the team starting to get a sense of his habits. Darling was the better goaltender that night, but not by a mile. I would say that Ortio, at 24, was the better goaltender than Darling at 24. (now 27). JMHO Totally agree. I think we can safely say Flames will look to him as #2 next year, unless we cant sign him for some reason . Who he will be pushing is now the question 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted March 27, 2016 Report Share Posted March 27, 2016 There is a lot of mention about protecting only 3 D but can I ask if it is a given the expansion team has to take a defenseman from each team or how does this work ? I think the logical steps would be to solve the goaltending and RW through the draft and/or trade, then see what is happening with Hamonic. Also as mentioned there would have to be a lot of salary cleared for the team to afford him. Additional... Take a look at the last expansion draft. Soon as they figured out/picked goaltenders they wanted to draft. They did not have to draft D but would be foolish not to. The expansion draft teams built from the goaltenders out: Everyone here remembers the 2 studs we lost in this draft???? Right??? Filip Kuba D Sergei Krivokrasov RW 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darth_henning Posted March 27, 2016 Report Share Posted March 27, 2016 Back to goaltending: Watched Ortio last night, was impressed. He was boring. IMHO. In other words, great puck control (I know he's let a few go in the past), great rebound control. Against arguably the best team in the league, he gave the Flames a chance to win, and kept things Un-insteresting. It wasn't just the saves. It was the passes behind the net that kept the Flames shot count above Chicago's. It was the rebound control. That also comes with the team starting to get a sense of his habits. Darling was the better goaltender that night, but not by a mile. I would say that Ortio, at 24, was the better goaltender than Darling at 24. (now 27). JMHO I missed the game, but watched the goal re-plays from the Gifs that get posted on Reddit. I'd argue the first two goals (that horrible giveaway by Brodie and a multiple deflection in traffic) aren't really on Ortio. At least not enough to be of concern. Is he a top level starting goalie right now? No. But is he giving us a consistent chance to win if we were to play well in front of him? Yes. His performance has slipped back a little since call-up started, but on the whole, it hasn't been bad. Hopefully he'll take a qualifying offer or a hair more (660-700K) to compete next year. I think he could step up into a starter role given time, but he's no there yet. But he's showing more consistency and promise than he has before. and that's exactly where you want development to be at this point. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted March 27, 2016 Report Share Posted March 27, 2016 Additional... Take a look at the last expansion draft. Soon as they figured out/picked goaltenders they wanted to draft. They did not have to draft D but would be foolish not to. The expansion draft teams built from the goaltenders out: Everyone here remembers the 2 studs we lost in this draft???? Right??? Filip Kuba D Sergei Krivokrasov RW its really hard to use the Expansion as an example of how to build a team. Especially with side deals , and many players being chosen as bait for other teams. Of the 6 goalies chosen, only 1-- Jamie McLennan , was on the opening day roster . 3 were free agents who signed elsewhere, 2 were traded almost immediately ..not for Goalies Minnesota Jamie McLennan - played Mike Vernon - traded to calgary Chris Terreri- traded to New jersey started with Mclennan and Derek Gustafson Columbus Rick Tabaracci- free agent - signed with Dallas Frederic Chabot- signed in Germany Dwayne Roloson- signed with St Louis Started with Marc Denis - Ron Tugnutt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted March 28, 2016 Report Share Posted March 28, 2016 So Nick Schneider gets some confidence instilled in him: http://medicinehatnews.com/sports/local-sports/2016/03/28/schneiders-not-done-yet/ Mason McDonald is playing well in the playoffs so far, and Schneider's got an opportunity in the AHL. Do they play him? I kind of doubt it, but it would be nice to see. He would likely get blown out, and that worries me with the Flame's history of how they interpret that. Wondering where these guys end up next year..... maybe Schneider to the ECHL? To start off with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted March 28, 2016 Report Share Posted March 28, 2016 So Nick Schneider gets some confidence instilled in him: http://medicinehatnews.com/sports/local-sports/2016/03/28/schneiders-not-done-yet/ Mason McDonald is playing well in the playoffs so far, and Schneider's got an opportunity in the AHL. Do they play him? I kind of doubt it, but it would be nice to see. He would likely get blown out, and that worries me with the Flame's history of how they interpret that. Wondering where these guys end up next year..... maybe Schneider to the ECHL? To start off with? Schneider has another year of regular junior eligibility and an overage year of junior eligibility. McDonald can go back for his overage season in the QMJHL. He needs starts, that's the bottom line. The problem is so does Gillies. With Gillies getting the bulk of the starts in Stockton I think you might see McDonald start either in Adirondack or Charlottetown. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted March 28, 2016 Report Share Posted March 28, 2016 Schneider has another year of regular junior eligibility and an overage year of junior eligibility. McDonald can go back for his overage season in the QMJHL. He needs starts, that's the bottom line. The problem is so does Gillies. With Gillies getting the bulk of the starts in Stockton I think you might see McDonald start either in Adirondack or Charlottetown. Ah, thanks. Good to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted March 29, 2016 Report Share Posted March 29, 2016 This Ortio thing....it's working. And Killing my Auston Matthews dreams with it. Well....even if we DO acquire another goalie...I'm thinking it won't be from the Yotes.... I think I liked it better when Hartley was playing Hiller and Backstrom...and I could complain more yet watch our chances of Matthews go up lol.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheersMan Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darth_henning Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 Sad to think what this season would look like if ALL of our goalies hadn't crapped the bed the first 10 games they each played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulstad Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 MTL has just put Ben Scrivens on waivers. Given how much is (not) left in the season, would he be worth claiming? http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/canadiens-place-goaltender-ben-scrivens-waivers/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 MTL has just put Ben Scrivens on waivers. Given how much is (not) left in the season, would he be worth claiming? http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/canadiens-place-goaltender-ben-scrivens-waivers/ I don't think so, he just isn't a good one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cccsberg Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 MTL has just put Ben Scrivens on waivers. Given how much is (not) left in the season, would he be worth claiming? http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/canadiens-place-goaltender-ben-scrivens-waivers/ Although he might be able to fill a back-up role, we already have that with Ortio, plus, and we should therefore just stick with him for the rest of the games. I can't see Scrivens being a serious starter consideration, so therefore, no. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheersMan Posted March 31, 2016 Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 Scrivens will still be available in the offseason, as will many other goalies with similar skills. Lets add him to the ever growing list of potential candidates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted March 31, 2016 Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 guess we can see how Backstrom does as a cold backup now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob1974 Posted March 31, 2016 Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 You almost feel bad for Hiller at this point now. His career dwindling down and hopes of having that one last good one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted March 31, 2016 Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 You almost feel bad for Hiller at this point now. His career dwindling down and hopes of having that one last good one. You do..and i get the whole last start against the old team thing .. but seriously , they have owned him since he came here..even last year when he was good.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darth_henning Posted March 31, 2016 Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 Ok, I want Matthews as much as the next guy, but Hiller doesn't have to make it THAT obvious. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted March 31, 2016 Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 How was that not tanking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted March 31, 2016 Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 How was that not tanking? I think we could argue this had "we aren't going to win" written all over it. And I just want to point out when I was making my earlier arguments for keeping Backstrom as an early starter next year I prefaced it with "unless he stinks the joint out to finish the year" I don't blame it on his age he just doesn't seem to have it any more. give him the start against Minny and let him call it a career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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