Goaltending

[jjgallow]

Is Ortio that guy?  You keep talking about him as a backup next season until he takes the next step to being a starter.  But I don't see the starter you have in mind.  Rather, you would prefer to make this Ortio against the world.  Or your idea is the right one, even though I fail to find your solution in any posts.

 

To be blunt - what is your solution to the starter next season and perhaps longer?

 

To be blunt - what is your solution to building a Stanley Cup winning team with a Stanley cup winning goaltender?

 

 

Just like you feel Ortio is on this thread too much (you do realize he's a goalie, right?), I feel that next season' starting lineup is on here too much.    To be totally honest, it's inconsequential.

 

What matters is the fundamental process we follow to achieve a Stanley Cup winning goaltender that fits within the cap of a Stanley Cup winning team.

 

We play and develop and assess our prospects.   We acquire prospects.   We give them opportunity.

 

Ortio is being discussed because he is the most NHL ready prospect we have, and because we need to see what we have in him.

 

The priority now is developing and evaluating Ortio.

 

So, "is Ortio that Guy"?   I don't know.  None of us know.  That's why it's imperative that we find out.

 

If he's not, we make adjustments.  But not for next season.   We make adjustments for the Stanley Cup.   We acquire a better prospect.    Either way, Ortio needs to play up here, because Gillies needs playing time in the AHL.  

 

And the Moment Gillies is NHL ready, we need to find out what he has too.  And give him a Real development chance where we don't give up on him.

 

Personally, I think Gillies/Ortio are solid prospects, but I would like to have one more nearly NHL-ready prospect for assurance.

 

We can't afford to clog our system with mediocre veterans.   We wouldn't do it with our forwards or defence in this rebuild.  Goaltending should be no different.

[phoenix66]

the more it comes up the more I like Antti Ranta--  hes ready for prime time, paid his dues as a backup  career .913 is 56 games. he has played for 2 good defense teams, so thats my only fear . hes never really faced the rubber he will here,  ( average of 24 shots / game) In comparison Talbot dropped from almost a .930 average in NY to .918 in Edmonton 

but i would be willing to take the gamble to walk from Ramo for him .. and being Swiss you know Hartley will love him

 

Plus hes a UFA that makes only 750K.. could probably be had for about 1.1-1.6.. free up money for that RW we need

[MAC331]

the more it comes up the more I like Antti Ranta--  hes ready for prime time, paid his dues as a backup  career .913 is 56 games. he has played for 2 good defense teams, so thats my only fear . hes never really faced the rubber he will here,  ( average of 24 shots / game) In comparison Talbot dropped from almost a .930 average in NY to .918 in Edmonton 

but i would be willing to take the gamble to walk from Ramo for him .. and being Swiss you know Hartley will love him

 

Plus hes a UFA that makes only 750K.. could probably be had for about 1.1-1.6.. free up money for that RW we need

I think you have to be open to some experimenting for at least 2 years, only because Gilles will be that long developing. I don't see where there is a top goalie up for trade, even ANA's Andersen, why would they trade him ? they don't need to. TB doesn't need to trade Bishop either.

I wouldn't be afraid to have Ortio and Raanta compete or be a tandum for next season.

[JTech780]

To be blunt - what is your solution to building a Stanley Cup winning team with a Stanley cup winning goaltender?

Just like you feel Ortio is on this thread too much (you do realize he's a goalie, right?), I feel that next season' starting lineup is on here too much. To be totally honest, it's inconsequential.

What matters is the fundamental process we follow to achieve a Stanley Cup winning goaltender that fits within the cap of a Stanley Cup winning team.

We play and develop and assess our prospects. We acquire prospects. We give them opportunity.

Ortio is being discussed because he is the most NHL ready prospect we have, and because we need to see what we have in him.

The priority now is developing and evaluating Ortio.

So, "is Ortio that Guy"? I don't know. None of us know. That's why it's imperative that we find out.

If he's not, we make adjustments. But not for next season. We make adjustments for the Stanley Cup. We acquire a better prospect. Either way, Ortio needs to play up here, because Gillies needs playing time in the AHL.

And the Moment Gillies is NHL ready, we need to find out what he has too. And give him a Real development chance where we don't give up on him.

Personally, I think Gillies/Ortio are solid prospects, but I would like to have one more nearly NHL-ready prospect for assurance.

We can't afford to clog our system with mediocre veterans. We wouldn't do it with our forwards or defence in this rebuild. Goaltending should be no different.

In all your posts about our goaltending for next year you never post a solution for our starter problem. Ortio maybe parting the solution, but I am not counting on it.

At this stage of the rebuild we have together giving our core a chance to win if we keep going back to league average or below average goaltending (Ramo, Ortio, etc.) we are going to be stuck in the never ending rebuild cycle just like Edmonton.

If we don't make the playoffs next I truly believe that this team is doomed to be stuck in mediocrity or worse.

Now is the time for our core to start learning how to win.

The time is over to keep adding high picks and hoping they makes us better.

the more it comes up the more I like Antti Ranta-- hes ready for prime time, paid his dues as a backup career .913 is 56 games. he has played for 2 good defense teams, so thats my only fear . hes never really faced the rubber he will here, ( average of 24 shots / game) In comparison Talbot dropped from almost a .930 average in NY to .918 in Edmonton

but i would be willing to take the gamble to walk from Ramo for him .. and being Swiss you know Hartley will love him

Plus hes a UFA that makes only 750K.. could probably be had for about 1.1-1.6.. free up money for that RW we need

Raanta is Finnish.

There is a reason that Chicago moved on from Rannta and that the Rangers were rumored to be looking for an upgrade on Raanta at the deadline.

I would be OK with bringing him in to battle with Ortio as the back up but we would still need a starter.

[phoenix66]

In all your posts about our goaltending for next year you never post a solution for our starter problem. Ortio maybe parting the solution, but I am not counting on it.

At this stage of the rebuild we have together giving our core a chance to win if we keep going back to league average or below average goaltending (Ramo, Ortio, etc.) we are going to be stuck in the never ending rebuild cycle just like Edmonton.

If we don't make the playoffs next I truly believe that this team is doomed to be stuck in mediocrity or worse.

Now is the time for our core to start learning how to win.

The time is over to keep adding high picks and hoping they makes us better.

Raanta is Finnish.

There is a reason that Chicago moved on from Rannta and that the Rangers were rumored to be looking for an upgrade on Raanta at the deadline.

I would be OK with bringing him in to battle with Ortio as the back up but we would still need a starter.

oops.. my bad,  i was recalling the world championships when we were scouting our "2 new best goalies not in the NHL".. you're right .. he was the Finnish one.. Berra was backing up Hiller on the Swiss team..even better , Finns seem to be churning out the goalies these days

 

and im talking bring him in as a starter..  i still haven't heard what you expect to give up for your starter.. and how much you think we will have to pay him ??..and where we get the money ?  ..i'll spare another details of the math, but you have a about 4M to sign your game stealer.. annnnnnd Go!

 

as for the bolded, you may be in for a long disappointment then .. in the normal path of progression , nest year is the "fight for it and just barely miss " year , barring another team's collapse.

[MAC331]

In all your posts about our goaltending for next year you never post a solution for our starter problem. Ortio maybe parting the solution, but I am not counting on it.

At this stage of the rebuild we have together giving our core a chance to win if we keep going back to league average or below average goaltending (Ramo, Ortio, etc.) we are going to be stuck in the never ending rebuild cycle just like Edmonton.

If we don't make the playoffs next I truly believe that this team is doomed to be stuck in mediocrity or worse.

Now is the time for our core to start learning how to win.

The time is over to keep adding high picks and hoping they makes us better.

Raanta is Finnish.

There is a reason that Chicago moved on from Rannta and that the Rangers were rumored to be looking for an upgrade on Raanta at the deadline.

I would be OK with bringing him in to battle with Ortio as the back up but we would still need a starter.

You sound like you are in panic mode already regarding next season. Last year went a long ways towards providing a winning attitude for the rebuild. We all need to remember the NHL is purposely adjusting rules to get scoring up and if we have 2 goalies with around 2.4 GAA isn't so bad.

When is adding a high draft pick to your asset base ever a bad thing for your organization ?

As far as the doom and gloom prediction, sorry I'm not buying it. The team regressed overall from last year however the players that needed to get better and gain experience did just that.

[JTech780]

You sound like you are in panic mode already regarding next season. Last year went a long ways towards providing a winning attitude for the rebuild. We all need to remember the NHL is purposely adjusting rules to get scoring up and if we have 2 goalies with around 2.4 GAA isn't so bad.

When is adding a high draft pick to your asset base ever a bad thing for your organization ?

As far as the doom and gloom prediction, sorry I'm not buying it. The team regressed overall from last year however the players that needed to get better and gain experience did just that.

 

Last years dividends went down the toilet this year, if it had went a long ways to providing a winning attitude we would have been a much better team this year.

 

Adding a high draft picks becomes a bad thing when it becomes common place for your franchise, and that is what we need to avoid.

[DirtyDeeds]

I gotta say I am in 100% agreement with JJ. I love a good debate , but this whole " we have no NHL Caliber Goaltender " argument at times goes off the rails.

You can count on one hand, the number of times a "elite nhl starter" has been acquired and provided any significant fortunes to his new club. Patrick Roy is one,  you can argue Roberto Luongo, also Dominic Hasek.. we're talking hall of fame quality tenders there.

I don't see anyone asking to trade for or pickup a elite hall of fame goaltender. (Hey if we can get one that is still young then great.. lets do it )You keep insisting that is what the forums is asking the Flames to do. I don't see anyone asking that. I do see a lot of people frustrated at the present state of the Flames goaltenders.. Especially Ortio. Frankly they have good reason to be disappointed in our Goaltenders.... all of them.

 

too many times to count, teams have gotten presents in the form of ones that were never given the opportunity  due to depth on their old teams, and BECAME starters (Eg- Kipper, Ben Bishop, Bobrovsky, etc..etc..etc)

Other teams are goalie factories, why?  because they develop them and when one is pushed out , they toss another in the system (Anaheim, San Jose, etc etc)

 

 Unless you are that one piece away from a cup run, to overpay on some other team's castoffs, it is throwing money away .. and even then its a gamble (ask the Blues how that worked out !)

I have only been following hockey since before TV. So forgive my Newbie opinions, but... The best way to develop prospect goalies is behind a mentor. A Pro who has been there and done that. I think I see a lot of posters on the thread asking for a short term #1 starter quality goaltender who can come in and Start for the Flames even if only around league average. This won't cost us the farm, it won't cost us an arm and a leg against the cap.

 

Brian Mason has lost his job on 2 TEAMS now, personally i don't think he's any better than Ramo. I would not complain ONE bit , if we resigned Ramo to a 2 year deal , even a 3.. same with Ortio and let our kids develop. i said before you can toss the 1st 20 games out the window, call it what you will, 3 goalie system effects, bad coaching , injuries, etc.. the entire team sucked.. not just the goalies.. but after that Ramo was our starter and gave us a chance to win sometimes when we didn't deserve to.. that's an NHL starter. None of the goalies you have listed would have made a difference

We have done the Trade for a Starter plan in the past .. Donnie Edwards, Roman Turek, and im sure a few others.. who won us a cup ?..MIKE VERNON.. a product of our own system..who else took us to a final?  Kipper.. a forgotten piece from another system who never got a chance before

 

IF we  are going to target a new starter.. it should come from the backup pile i mentioned above-- Antti Ranta , Kincaid, .. players like that who don't get , or wont get a true chance to elevate to a starter position until someone retires. Our problem is, and always has been , we ruin goaltenders. or we give up on them before they're ready. Curtis M has shown himself to be a solid Backup in the league after we ran him out of town, Trevor Kidd was rushed and mishandled, we haven't had a true "backup " situation since Reggie Lemelin was here. Only one goalie has proven capable of backing up one that gets all the starts and was at all effective (Mclennan)

 

Lets be frank here. Curtis M was never going to become a starter and his high end was always a backup which we gave him a lot of opportunity to do. I don't see the Flames giving up on him at all. He had 3 seasons to show his abilities and can you blame the Flames for moving on after his stats the final 2 seasons here?

 

 

The point of the rant, is we tend to fall in love with the sexy names, and forgot what made them that in the first place and copy the formula, instead of trying to steal it from someone else.. after Ortio our next one from the system is 2-3 years away - 2 at least.. so , sign Ortio.. and either go forward with Ramo while we fix and mature the rest our team, or add an NHL proven Player(again , one that hasn't been allowed to be a starter yet or at worst a 1B that has a 1A ), and take the chance that hes starter material.. either one I'm good with. but we need to stop thinking another team's trash is our saviour.. or pay thru the nose for a player that made his name elsewhere, cuz theres no guarantee they will have the same success here (see Khabibulin, Niemi, osgood..etc etc)

I won't delve more into your rant(your description not mine) but Ortio and Ramo has not shown me they can give me a full season of decent starts. We don't have any goaltenders that can imo. I give Ramo and Ortio a small chance for backup next year and I am not sure Ramo would take less to stay here for a backup role. That leaves us with one alternative. Bring in a Journeyman true #1 starter for a year or two, until our prospects(or Ramo) work out the bugs that plagued them this year won't be a huge concern. Hey there is a long shot that Backstrom can be that Journeyman right?

 

As for the can we afford to? yes we can afford to Look how much of our cap is already used up...

 

Sorry if this post seems like I am picking apart your thoughts. I just can't live with staying with the status quo for next season and the thought of getting the same thing from our Goaltenders next season. That window for us that is opening is not big enough that we can afford to just sit on what have have in hopes in might work.

[MAC331]

Last years dividends went down the toilet this year, if it had went a long ways to providing a winning attitude we would have been a much better team this year.

 

Adding a high draft picks becomes a bad thing when it becomes common place for your franchise, and that is what we need to avoid.

Yeah I will disagree with your way of looking at our present state into next season. Sure we have to avoid the high draft pick road only because it means we are not finishing very high in the standings. The silver lining for this season may be this very player we get in this draft advances our rebuild in a big way.

[JTech780]

oops.. my bad,  i was recalling the world championships when we were scouting our "2 new best goalies not in the NHL".. you're right .. he was the Finnish one.. Berra was backing up Hiller on the Swiss team..even better , Finns seem to be churning out the goalies these days

 

and im talking bring him in as a starter..  i still haven't heard what you expect to give up for your starter.. and how much you think we will have to pay him ??..and where we get the money ?  ..i'll spare another details of the math, but you have a about 4M to sign your game stealer.. annnnnnd Go!

 

as for the bolded, you may be in for a long disappointment then .. in the normal path of progression , nest year is the "fight for it and just barely miss " year , barring another team's collapse.

 

 

This idea that bringing in a proven starter is a bad thing, but bring in backups to be our starter is somehow the right thing to do is baffling.

 

If we end up with a tandem of Raanta and Ortio next year, we should all start learning as much we can about Nolan Patrick because that's who we will be competing for.

 

We will have more than $4m to get a goalie, but I guess it is whatever you prioritize. A number 1 goalie is much more important than getting another winger. So if I am cutting back in one place it would be on the wing, that's where I look for bargain deals. Goaltending is much too important of a position to be bargain shopping.

[JTech780]

Yeah I will disagree with your way of looking at our present state into next season. Sure we have to avoid the high draft pick road only because it means we are not finishing very high in the standings. The silver lining for this season may be this very player we get in this draft advances our rebuild in a big way.

 

Yes this year we will be getting someone that should step into the lineup next season. I just don't see a reason why we should spend another year sitting outside of the playoffs. As of right now goaltending is the only thing holding this team back. I think making the playoffs and playing meaningful games is more important at this stage than getting more high draft picks. 

 

Why not get a proven NHL starter and start moving the franchise in the right direction. If we just want to add some more goaltending projects till Gillies is ready to be an everyday starter (minimum 3-4 years away) than we will be spending a lot of years on the outside looking in of the playoff picture. By that time or core will have gotten used to loosing much like the Oilers and countless other rebuilding clubs.

[DirtyDeeds]

Wow

 

It has always fascinated me how some of us plan ahead for average.   How, if we try really hard and make all the right compromises, we too can have a a league average team that might make the playoffs sometime, and get eliminated in the first, or second round.

 

Is there anyone here who wants the Flames to win the cup?   We won't get to the cup by blowing our Cap space to launch ourselves into mediocrity for the next 5 years.

 

Seriously JJ? planning for avg?

 

This is a fairly big pothole in the middle of a freeway JJ. We can't let it go as it will only get worse. We can't just keep tossing gravel(Ramo and Ortio) into it because the gravel does not do the job for long(fill the hole and stay put). Sure they are okay for a short time but only until the gravel gets pushed out again.

 

We need some professional patchwork done(true #1 starter for a couple of years avg or better) until we have a full paving crew(Hopefully Gilles) come in to redo the whole section(smooth road to contending) in a couple of years.

[JTech780]

We have one thing in common with the Oilers....we both have big gaps on defence (obviously more up North), and blame our goaltenders for it as long as our defencemen score points  (because that's what defencemen are for, right?)

 

There is nothing wrong with our defense. The system? That is absolutely flawed. The goaltending? Is sub par, regardless of the teams defensive systems. 

[phoenix66]

This idea that bringing in a proven starter is a bad thing, but bring in backups to be our starter is somehow the right thing to do is baffling.

 

If we end up with a tandem of Raanta and Ortio next year, we should all start learning as much we can about Nolan Patrick because that's who we will be competing for.

 

We will have more than $4m to get a goalie, but I guess it is whatever you prioritize. A number 1 goalie is much more important than getting another winger. So if I am cutting back in one place it would be on the wing, that's where I look for bargain deals. Goaltending is much too important of a position to be bargain shopping.

the number was not random.. with our current signed players, and if we resign the RFA's to the qualifying offer (except Monny and Johnny who i have allocated about 14M to as an estimate) that leaves you about 5m under the cap to sign 2 goaltenders

 

we have to assume  signed players are still counting until such time as we actually move them out

 

and never said it was not a priority. just something we cant afford right now,, and it also would not have the dramatic guaranteed impact you're suggesting

[JTech780]

the number was not random.. with our current signed players, and if we resign the RFA's to the qualifying offer (except Monny and Johnny who i have allocated about 14M to as an estimate) that leaves you about 5m under the cap to sign 2 goaltenders

 

we have to assume  signed players are still counting until such time as we actually move them out

 

and never said it was not a priority. just something we cant afford right now,, and it also would not have the dramatic guaranteed impact you're suggesting

 

If you buy out or trade WIdeman and bury Raymond in the minors that frees up between $3.5m and $5m depending on which road you go with Wideman, buy out saves us $4m next on his contract and if we trade him we would have to eat 50% of his salary. Either choice is fine with me if it means we can legitimately upgrade our goaltending.

[phoenix66]

If you buy out or trade WIdeman and bury Raymond in the minors that frees up between $3.5m and $5m depending on which road you go with Wideman, buy out saves us $4m next on his contract and if we trade him we would have to eat 50% of his salary. Either choice is fine with me if it means we can legitimately upgrade our goaltending.

 

ok lets go with that .. but you still havent said, in the case of a Bishop.. what are you trading to get him, and what do you think we will have to pay him ?i virtually guarantee his next contract is between 7-8M on a long term deal .. unless he totally wets the bed in the playoffs this year 

[tmac70]

know who else does this ?  goes down all the time, if you can just lift the puck or pick a top corner you will score just about every time?  Jonathan Quick

Quick and Ortio may have similar styles but are not even close to comparable. Quick has stolen more games for LA than you can count. Really what is the debate, Ortio is the #1 Starter for this club? The guy is a best a average backup. He has 1 win all year , ONE!!

[JTech780]

ok lets go with that .. but you still havent said, in the case of a Bishop.. what are you trading to get him, and what do you think we will have to pay him ?i virtually guarantee his next contract is between 7-8M on a long term deal .. unless he totally wets the bed in the playoffs this year 

 

First off I am not totally sold that Tampa will move Bishop this year. If they can't re-sign Stamkos then they have zero reason to move him. Also I agree that re-signing Bishop becomes an issue after next year. To date there are 4 goalies that carry cap hits above $7m (Lundqvist, Bobrovsky, Rinne and Rask), Bishop would need to win a Vezina and or a cup to get that type of money. 

 

As far as trading for him, his value will really depend on what Tampa does this year in the playoffs and what they do with Stamkos. If they re-sign Stamkos and have to move Bishop for cap reasons than his value will drop and we can get him for 2 2nds in this years draft plus a prospect.. If they go the Cup Final and they don't re-sign Stamkos (they probably keep Bishop) then they are dealing from a position of strength and he will cost a 2017 1st  and a prospect for sure.

 

I really like Bishop and he is a Vezina quality goalie right now and has lead his team to the Final once. He is easily an elite top 10 goalie in this league, so I would be willing to give up quite a bit for him.

 

Bishop is what we hope Gillies becomes.

Quick and Ortio may have similar styles but are not even close to comparable. Quick has stolen more games for LA than you can count. Really what is the debate, Ortio is the #1 Starter for this club? The guy is a best a average backup. He has 1 win all year , ONE!!

 

Ortio's style is closer to Hiller than it is Quick's. Ortio is a blocking goalie, where as Quick rely's on athleticism and reflexes. 

 

Hiller carved out a pretty good career, the trick and hurdle that Ortio has to overcome is can ever be consistent enough to be a starting goalie.

[phoenix66]

Quick and Ortio may have similar styles but are not even close to comparable. Quick has stolen more games for LA than you can count. Really what is the debate, Ortio is the #1 Starter for this club? The guy is a best a average backup. He has 1 win all year , ONE!!

not now, but Quick was once seen as a backup behind Bernier . mentioned in trade talks quite frequently if i recall before he broke out . My only point was , if youre saying hes mediocre due to that style of his game, well, the point is moot cuz i can name an all star with the same tendencies who played 3 games his first season with an .855  and 44 the next season with a .915 and barely over  .500 (21-18)

basically , he evolved.. which is what Ive been saying this whole time.. we cant predict where Ortio will finish his career .. just for now that he's earned the right to take the next step.. which is NHL backup .. he has nothing left to prove as an AHL goalie

[JTech780]

The goalie I think will almost be 100% available is Varlamov. Colorado is a budget team and they have MacKinnon and Barrie that are going to be getting big time raises this summer. They also have Calvin Pickard that they are extremely high on.

 

I think Varlamov can be had for relatively cheap, he is sign for 3 more years, which fits our time frame for Gillies. 

 

I know a lot of people have said that he is too inconsistent and he isn't really helping my case this year with having a down year, which is basically Ramo's best year. Previous to this year he had save percentages of .927 and .921 on one of the worst if not the worst defensive teams in the league.

 

The other thing that I heard a lot was that he is too injury prone. That one I didn't really get. He is going to get to 50 games this year, he played 57 games last year, 63 the year before and he played in 35 of 48 games in the lockout season. I think we would love to have goalie that plays 50+ games a year.

 

My guess is that he could be had for a 2nd and a prospect. 

 

I believe that he would give this team a chance to win on most nights and to me that is huge for a young team on the rise.

[phoenix66]

First off I am not totally sold that Tampa will move Bishop this year. If they can't re-sign Stamkos then they have zero reason to move him. Also I agree that re-signing Bishop becomes an issue after next year. To date there are 4 goalies that carry cap hits above $7m (Lundqvist, Bobrovsky, Rinne and Rask), Bishop would need to win a Vezina and or a cup to get that type of money. 

 

As far as trading for him, his value will really depend on what Tampa does this year in the playoffs and what they do with Stamkos. If they re-sign Stamkos and have to move Bishop for cap reasons than his value will drop and we can get him for 2 2nds in this years draft plus a prospect.. If they go the Cup Final and they don't re-sign Stamkos (they probably keep Bishop) then they are dealing from a position of strength and he will cost a 2017 1st  and a prospect for sure.

 

I really like Bishop and he is a Vezina quality goalie right now and has lead his team to the Final once. He is easily an elite top 10 goalie in this league, so I would be willing to give up quite a bit for him.

 

Bishop is what we hope Gillies becomes.

 

Ortio's style is closer to Hiller than it is Quick's. Ortio is a blocking goalie, where as Quick rely's on athleticism and reflexes. 

 

Hiller carved out a pretty good career, the trick and hurdle that Ortio has to overcome is can ever be consistent enough to be a starting goalie.

so If i understand you correctly ... hypothetically ..you'd be wiling to give up a 1st rounder and a prospect , to pay 6.5 M to a goalie for potentially one year . Cuz he makes 6.5 now.. hes gonna want a raise

if he doesn't do well enough to justify the raise, then that means he was a bust here.. so we gave up a first and prospect to let him walk for nothing or whatever we get as a rental

The goalie I think will almost be 100% available is Varlamov. Colorado is a budget team and they have MacKinnon and Barrie that are going to be getting big time raises this summer. They also have Calvin Pickard that they are extremely high on.

 

I think Varlamov can be had for relatively cheap, he is sign for 3 more years, which fits our time frame for Gillies. 

 

I know a lot of people have said that he is too inconsistent and he isn't really helping my case this year with having a down year, which is basically Ramo's best year. Previous to this year he had save percentages of .927 and .921 on one of the worst if not the worst defensive teams in the league.

 

The other thing that I heard a lot was that he is too injury prone. That one I didn't really get. He is going to get to 50 games this year, he played 57 games last year, 63 the year before and he played in 35 of 48 games in the lockout season. I think we would love to have goalie that plays 50+ games a year.

 

My guess is that he could be had for a 2nd and a prospect. 

 

I believe that he would give this team a chance to win on most nights and to me that is huge for a young team on the rise.

isnt this the guy that beat up his wife?

[JTech780]

not now, but Quick was once seen as a backup behind Bernier . mentioned in trade talks quite frequently if i recall before he broke out . My only point was , if youre saying hes mediocre due to that style of his game, well, the point is moot cuz i can name an all star with the same tendencies who played 3 games his first season with an .855  and 44 the next season with a .915 and barely over  .500 (21-18)

basically , he evolved.. which is what Ive been saying this whole time.. we cant predict where Ortio will finish his career .. just for now that he's earned the right to take the next step.. which is NHL backup .. he has nothing left to prove as an AHL goalie

 

Bernier never played more than 25 games in a season for LA because he was always stuck behind Quick. 

 

The last point kind of bothers me because he never proved anything at the AHL level, in fact I would say he was pretty average for his AHL career.

 

If he can continue playing at the level he has for the last 5 games for the rest of the season than I agree he should be in consideration for the back up role.

[travel_dude]

The goalie I think will almost be 100% available is Varlamov. Colorado is a budget team and they have MacKinnon and Barrie that are going to be getting big time raises this summer. They also have Calvin Pickard that they are extremely high on.

 

I think Varlamov can be had for relatively cheap, he is sign for 3 more years, which fits our time frame for Gillies. 

 

I know a lot of people have said that he is too inconsistent and he isn't really helping my case this year with having a down year, which is basically Ramo's best year. Previous to this year he had save percentages of .927 and .921 on one of the worst if not the worst defensive teams in the league.

 

The other thing that I heard a lot was that he is too injury prone. That one I didn't really get. He is going to get to 50 games this year, he played 57 games last year, 63 the year before and he played in 35 of 48 games in the lockout season. I think we would love to have goalie that plays 50+ games a year.

 

My guess is that he could be had for a 2nd and a prospect. 

 

I believe that he would give this team a chance to win on most nights and to me that is huge for a young team on the rise.

 

Not a bad alternative.  I was suggesting that we traded for him awhile ago.  As long as it didn't cost that much.  We could still use Ortio or Backup goalie X to round out the year.  If Ortio isn't the guy, waive him and bring in someone else. 

[phoenix66]

Bernier never played more than 25 games in a season for LA because he was always stuck behind Quick. 

 

The last point kind of bothers me because he never proved anything at the AHL level, in fact I would say he was pretty average for his AHL career.

 

If he can continue playing at the level he has for the last 5 games for the rest of the season than I agree he should be in consideration for the back up role.

take out his time before he went back to Europe for more time, and his AHL numbers are better than Quick

[tmac70]

not now, but Quick was once seen as a backup behind Bernier . mentioned in trade talks quite frequently if i recall before he broke out . My only point was , if youre saying hes mediocre due to that style of his game, well, the point is moot cuz i can name an all star with the same tendencies who played 3 games his first season with an .855  and 44 the next season with a .915 and barely over  .500 (21-18)

basically , he evolved.. which is what Ive been saying this whole time.. we cant predict where Ortio will finish his career .. just for now that he's earned the right to take the next step.. which is NHL backup .. he has nothing left to prove as an AHL goalie

And I appreciate your opinion but we will agree to disagree. As you promote him to backup, I have no issues with letting them all go. If we need to circle back and take him as a cheap back up than so be it. Ramo and he were on waivers and it was crickets...If other clubs remotely see in him the potential you have he would have been gone in a second,