Goaltending

[robrob1974]

I watched all 3 vids on their exits. Hiller was pissed he couldn't finish the Ducks series, Ramo is confident in abilities and would be happy here, but is confident moving to another location. Ortio, he knows that he has to earn a spot next season.

I found Ramo more positive about the team and the culture than Hiller. By letting Ramo walk you now assume one of the goalies we have in the system will be equal or better than what we lose in Ramo. Largest part of our success this year was improved goal tending, I shudder to think what would have been with out it.

Goal tending was or strongest asset last year. So my question is why would anyone want now make moves to create a weakness where there wasn't one.

I know I don't want to. I like Ramo, and prefer him over Hiller. Treliving definitely makes me unsure because he seems to eluded to the one net and no talks yet.

Ramo wasn't his guy, Hiller was. Depends on how married you are to your own decisions?

[travel_dude]

I know I don't want to. I like Ramo, and prefer him over Hiller. Treliving definitely makes me unsure because he seems to eluded to the one net and no talks yet.

Ramo wasn't his guy, Hiller was. Depends on how married you are to your own decisions?

 

The only thing he is sure about right now is that you can't go with 3 goalies into the season. Hartley echoed that last season.

 

I don't think he is married to any decisions he has made. He needs to figure out how to fix any mistakes he made. And he would like to do it out of the eye of the media. If he is leaning towards singing Ramo, he doesn't want to say anything until the ink is dry. Otherwise you PO the other goalies needlessly.

 

For all I know, Gillies is going to be the NHL starter at some point next season, with Ramo the backup.  That might sound crazy, but Gillies could be that good and the others that bad.

[kehatch]

I hate to speculate about goalies. It's hard to determine who thinks they need one and how much you will get. I never saw a second round pick coming for Berra for example.

But if they move Hiller it isn't for a big return. It's to make room to sign Ramo and still have room for Ortio.

[robrob1974]

I don't think they need a big return. He's a guy we didn't develop. He's a guy we signed as a UFA and I wouldn't be concerned with what we get. 

[kehatch]

I don't think they need a big return. He's a guy we didn't develop. He's a guy we signed as a UFA and I wouldn't be concerned with what we get. 

 

Agreed.  The Flames have four options.  

1. Let Ramo walk.  Enter the season with Hiller / Ortio
2. Trade Hiller and sign Ramo.  Enter the season with Ramo / Ortio.
3. Sign Ramo and keep Hiller.  Enter the season with Ramo / Hiller (Ortio can compete to try and unseat one of the two). 
4. Keep one of Hiller / Ramo as the starter and bring on another goalie to provide competition to Ortio. 

I don't think any are bad options.  My personal take is I don't trust Ortio enough to keep a position for him out of camp.  I also don't like going into next season with Ramo / Hiller because I don't see either as a goalie of the future for us and I would rather see the time spent on someone with some future.  So I guess I like number 4.  

 

But honestly, that is nit picking a little.  Any of the four options are fine IMO.  

[420since1974]

My only worry with options 3 & 4 is that Orito may not clear waivers.

 

I'd hate to lose him for nothing.

[kehatch]

My only worry with options 3 & 4 is that Orito may not clear waivers.

I'd hate to lose him for nothing.

I was when he was hot. But he cooled off a bunch at the end. I think he clears. But your right that it is a risk.

[phoenix66]

My only worry with options 3 & 4 is that Orito may not clear waivers.

 

I'd hate to lose him for nothing.

The more I have thought about this, the more I recall the team motto that made us successful this year, "Always earned, never given"

Many, myself included, have assumed Joni's contract automatically gives him a spot next season. That would fly in the face of this motto. Because he has yet to earn it.

Letting Ramo walk, says bad things to the team after his playoff run, similarly for Hiller.

I do believe what we see now more than ever is all 3 goalies in camp, if Ortio earns it, he stays. If he plays poorly he will clear waivers, , with the unwritten preseason rule that sees teams leave waivers alone it seems.

Its possible Ramo gets a ufa offer we dont feel like matching, possible we get a very good offer to trade Hiller..but I believe in the meantime our goal is to sign Ramo, and let the 2 best options come out of camp " earned"

[DirtyDeeds]

The more I have thought about this, the more I recall the team motto that made us successful this year, "Always earned, never given"

Many, myself included, have assumed Joni's contract automatically gives him a spot next season. That would fly in the face of this motto. Because he has yet to earn it.

Letting Ramo walk, says bad things to the team after his playoff run, similarly for Hiller.

I do believe what we see now more than ever is all 3 goalies in camp, if Ortio earns it, he stays. If he plays poorly he will clear waivers, , with the unwritten preseason rule that sees teams leave waivers alone it seems.

Its possible Ramo gets a ufa offer we dont feel like matching, possible we get a very good offer to trade Hiller..but I believe in the meantime our goal is to sign Ramo, and let the 2 best options come out of camp " earned"

I think you are pretty close.

 

After last seasons training camp, where the Flames tried to create as much competition as possible for each position, I think they will continue along the same thinking next season too.

 

If they can keep all 3 goalies at a reasonable price and there are no decent trade options I think you will see Hiller, Ramo and Ortio compete for two spots next training camp.

[AlbertaBoy12]

This way of having 3 goalies battle for spots actually works out better. IF ortio comes in and steals the show you can always make a trade going into the season of Hiller or Ramo, theres always teams looking for a goaltender. I really think they would want Gilles starting in Stockton next year.

[zima]

I would think if Rams signs it would have a caveat of some sort meaning he would make it clear that if he signs here he would have a no movement for a year or something like that. I f it was me I sure wouldn't sign just to be traded.

[phoenix66]

i think you also have to take emotion out of the equation and look at results. At  the end of the day , playoffs trump regular season. I like Hiller, id have no qualms going with the same tandem , and I love what he brings to the mix...but...   yes he was the goalie of note against Vancouver, but he was pulled in the deciding game.. Ramo got the job done.. Ramo was lights out against Anaheim after mopping up for Hiller in game 1(pulled again ).. and took us to OT in the knockout game against , honestly , a superior team. I totally believe the Job Ortio is trying to take is Hiller's

[conundrumed]

So what should we offer Ramo? 3yr/$4.5 per?

I think that works in our timeline, but if he's offered term elsewhere, I'd guess he'd take it.

Do we want to give him 5 years?

What happens to Ramo really comes down to what he's looking for.

This WAS his bridge contract so-to-speak.

I'm guessing he'll want a 5yr term and I think he'll find one.

If 5 at $20-23mil would do it, would you be for it?

I think I would.

In terms of Ortio, I can see him clearing waivers out of camp. His one way deal is an onus for any team to pick him up. Especially if they view it he was cut from camp. That's a hard pill to swallow if you grab him up and now the waiver wire is your problem to send him down.

Imo it's high risk at the beginning of the season to claim him. Don't see it happening.

[phoenix66]

So what should we offer Ramo? 3yr/$4.5 per?

I think that works in our timeline, but if he's offered term elsewhere, I'd guess he'd take it.

Do we want to give him 5 years?

What happens to Ramo really comes down to what he's looking for.

This WAS his bridge contract so-to-speak.

I'm guessing he'll want a 5yr term and I think he'll find one.

If 5 at $20-23mil would do it, would you be for it?

I think I would.

In terms of Ortio, I can see him clearing waivers out of camp. His one way deal is an onus for any team to pick him up. Especially if they view it he was cut from camp. That's a hard pill to swallow if you grab him up and now the waiver wire is your problem to send him down.

Imo it's high risk at the beginning of the season to claim him. Don't see it happening.

 

 

it was  a bridge technically , but anyone signing him is signing his potential still.. and if he believes in his abilities then he also believes his best years are still to come. due to that , i think you could get him 3 yrs, 4.5-5 mill.. if he does really well, then his best payday is coming  after .. in 5 years hes likely going to be declining , in which case a long term deal could leave $ on the table because of that .

 that being said , I'd totally take a 5 yr 23 mill . i believe that would be a bargain , AND keep him tradeable if Ortio and Gillies are the future as planned

[travel_dude]

So what should we offer Ramo? 3yr/$4.5 per?

I think that works in our timeline, but if he's offered term elsewhere, I'd guess he'd take it.

Do we want to give him 5 years?

What happens to Ramo really comes down to what he's looking for.

This WAS his bridge contract so-to-speak.

I'm guessing he'll want a 5yr term and I think he'll find one.

If 5 at $20-23mil would do it, would you be for it?

I think I would.

In terms of Ortio, I can see him clearing waivers out of camp. His one way deal is an onus for any team to pick him up. Especially if they view it he was cut from camp. That's a hard pill to swallow if you grab him up and now the waiver wire is your problem to send him down.

Imo it's high risk at the beginning of the season to claim him. Don't see it happening.

 

Ramo is happy in Calgary.  Offer him an extension and he probably takes it, if it is short enough.  His body of work is too small to get the big bucks, so he may want to prove he is a number 1.  Key to this is to get him signed now, while his heart is in it.  Drag it out, and he would feel like he is being pushed out the door.

 

That all assumes they want to keep him at all.   

[JTech780]

So what should we offer Ramo? 3yr/$4.5 per?

I think that works in our timeline, but if he's offered term elsewhere, I'd guess he'd take it.

Do we want to give him 5 years?

What happens to Ramo really comes down to what he's looking for.

This WAS his bridge contract so-to-speak.

I'm guessing he'll want a 5yr term and I think he'll find one.

If 5 at $20-23mil would do it, would you be for it?

I think I would.

In terms of Ortio, I can see him clearing waivers out of camp. His one way deal is an onus for any team to pick him up. Especially if they view it he was cut from camp. That's a hard pill to swallow if you grab him up and now the waiver wire is your problem to send him down.

Imo it's high risk at the beginning of the season to claim him. Don't see it happening.

There is no way I would give Ramo a 5 year contract. I would go 2 years max and around $2.5 mill. To me he still hasn't proved that he is a number 1 goalie, he is more of a 1B/backup goalie. I wouldn't feel too comfortable going into next season with Ramo as the number 1 option.

[kehatch]

Part of the conversation is, does Ramo want to be back? Does he want to play second fiddle to Hiller with Ortio knocking at the door?  Or does he want to go somewhere where he has a better chance of earning a number one and has a bit of a future?  I could see it go either way.  

[Zirakzigil]

Very little chance Ortio gets picked up on waivers. There are lots of players like him sent down at the beginning of the season, Markstrom was a prime example last September. Teams are not going to want to carry 3 goalies just to claim Ortio unless they have massive injuries to start. 

[conundrumed]

Very little chance Ortio gets picked up on waivers. There are lots of players like him sent down at the beginning of the season, Markstrom was a prime example last September. Teams are not going to want to carry 3 goalies just to claim Ortio unless they have massive injuries to start. 

Going all the way through camp with what you have, only to sign an unproven goalie on a one way in the end is asking a lot of a GM, imho.

That's seat of your pants stuff, to start the season.

[jjgallow]

Ortio > Markstrom, imho.   I wouldn't ever risk it myself.

[conundrumed]

Ortio > Markstrom, imho.   I wouldn't ever risk it myself.

Pretty big that we have to sign Ramo 1st.

No point getting ahead of things.

[kehatch]

Ortio > Markstrom, imho. I wouldn't ever risk it myself.

To you, yes. You have been a big supporter. But I doubt that is true to the hockey world.

They had similar NHL numbers (neither good) and we're the same age. Markstrom had long been hyped as the next big thing. He had better AHL numbers and more NHL experience.

I think it is a fair point that if Markstrom clears waivers Ortio probably does as well.

[cross16]

Part of the conversation is, does Ramo want to be back? Does he want to play second fiddle to Hiller with Ortio knocking at the door?  Or does he want to go somewhere where he has a better chance of earning a number one and has a bit of a future?  I could see it go either way.

I think this is a key issue that is not being discussed enough. IMO, reading between the lines I personally don't think that either Ramo or hiller really enjoyed the two goalie system and honestly almost goalies won't. Goalies typically want to be the guy and have the coach believe in them as the guy and that won't happen in calgary if Ramo and hiller are here. It wouldn't shock me if Ramo went to UFA to were what wa out the. Obviously if teams are calling and offering the same situation and money as calgary then calgary becomes more attractive but if a team calls him up and wants to offer him a similar deal to what hiller got to be a starter I think he would walk in a second.

[MAC331]

OTT just gave Hammond 3 years @ 4M. Is this market comparable ?

[JTech780]

OTT just gave Hammond 3 years @ 4M. Is this market comparable ?

Just to clarify it is an AAV of $1.35mill for Hammond.

Hammond is younger, but he has a smaller sample size compared to Ramo, but Hammond's stats through 25 games are unreal; 0.89 GAA and .975sv%.

With Ramo he is what he is, at 29 years old I don't think we will see much more progression in his game. I am OK if we sign him and I am OK if he walks, either way I see him as a short term solution so if we do sign him it better be to a short term deal.