travel_dude Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 I would be re-signing Ramo and determine who gets traded later. Ya know, that is not the craziest idea I have heard. Right now, we have no idea if Ortio will reciver 100% from injury in time to make the team next year. If he does, then we have a trade chip for the fall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 Ramo isn't an upgrade over Hiller or Ortio at this point so I don't see the point in bringing him back next year. Hiller has been very solid for us this year, and Ortio will be ready to back up next year. Gillies was ready to sign last year, but Burke told him to go back to college and work on his game. So I am pretty sure he will be signed this spring. He might even be able to get into some games in the AHL this spring after his college season is over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 Ramo isn't an upgrade over Hiller or Ortio at this point so I don't see the point in bringing him back next year. Hiller has been very solid for us this year, and Ortio will be ready to back up next year. Gillies was ready to sign last year, but Burke told him to go back to college and work on his game. So I am pretty sure he will be signed this spring. He might even be able to get into some games in the AHL this spring after his college season is over. The timing of Gillies signing is the same as Johnny was last year. If PC is in the frozen 4, then he wouldn't be available till the last week of NHL regular season; maybe a week before the end of the AHL season too. Ramo had some good games and bad ones. People mostly remember his bad ones. Remember his b2b shutouts? Ramo's lack of playing has a negative effect on his play. He has had very few stretches of play, regardless of whether Hiller is struggling. Below is how the two goalies have been started: Segment 1 (Games 1-7): Hiller gets four starts, Ramo gets three starts. Segment 2 (Games 8-14): Hiller gets five starts, Ramo gets two starts. (Hiller has a five-game starting run beginning here.) Segment 3 (Games 9-21): Hiller gets five starts, Ramo gets two starts. (Hiller's five-game run concludes; Ramo gets pulled from a start.) Segment 4 (Games 22-28): Ramo gets six starts, Hiller gets one start. (This segment features a five-game run for Ramo, which coincided with the Flames losing streak ending and Hartley rewarding him.) Segment 5 (Games 29-35): Hiller gets five starts, Ramo gets two starts. (Back to normal! Hiller begins a seven-game starting run here). Segment 6 (Games 36-42): Hiller gets six starts, Ramo gets one start. (Hiller's seven-game run ends here. Ramo gets a start but leaves due to an injury, so Hiller actually plays in every game of this segment.) Segment 7 (Games 43-49): Ortio gets five starts, Hiller gets two starts. (Joni Ortio is recalled and goes five straight, getting pulled in his final game. Hiller gets his net back and begins a string of eight straight starts.) Segment 8 (Games 50-56): Hiller gets six starts, Ramo gets one start. (Hiller concludes a string of eight straight starts by getting pulled in his final game.) Segment 9 (Games 57-): Ramo gets one start, so far, and gets yanked. Hiller is expected to start against Minnesota tonight. Hartley claims there is no #1, but you can easily see who gets trusted (even with the 5 goal 3rd against ANA, Hiller was not pulled). Ramo to start against NY. From an asset management standpoint, it makes sense to move Ramo before his contract expires. That makes no sense going into a playoff run, though. If you don't trade him, you should sign him to an extension to allow you to trade him or just walk away July 1st. We shall see what BT thinks before the end of the June. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 I'm not so sure you can say Hiller is that much better than Ramo. Hartley has definitely tried to ride Hiller's experience and Ramo did lose some time with the concussion. I see a lot of Kiprusoff in Ramo and wouldn't be inclined to cast him off just yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 I'm not so sure you can say Hiller is that much better than Ramo. Hartley has definitely tried to ride Hiller's experience and Ramo did lose some time with the concussion. I see a lot of Kiprusoff in Ramo and wouldn't be inclined to cast him off just yet. Like a long ago passed girlfriend, you have to let her go sometime. There is no Kipper in Ramo no matter what your memories tell you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KACaribou Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 Personally I see way more Kipper in Ortio. Boy his injury is untimely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 Florida is another example of recent memory. Hiller has a habit of letting in a soft goal at bad times and got beat out by 2 different goalies last year for the Ducks, who are one of the top teams in the NHL now. If he got beat out by a rookie in the playoffs last year what makes you think he should be the goalie for the Flames? I'm more of the mind that Bruce Boudreau made poor decisions with his goaltending last year. With some of the stacked teams he's had in Washington and now Anaheim, you have to start wondering if he's much of a coach in the playoffs. Everyone knows putting the bulk of what is wrong on your goalies shoulders is just whitewashing other issues, such as being continually out-coached in line-matching. They made Hiller unwelcomed likely a year too soon at least. But it was no secret Hiller didn't want to sign in Anaheim. No point pretending Hiller screwed up, Anaheim did. We're just the beneficiaries. But it's painful to see Hiller just fine back there for 5 out of 6, and get hacked to bits when the team plays like crap, as they did with the Ducks. Forget pretending what happened in Anaheim was all Hiller not being worth anything, it's simply not true, and we aren't Anaheim, and we're not coached by Boudreau. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 My biggest fear with Hiler is the return of the vertigo. It hasn't happened, and he may be over it. But there is a chance that he gets run over and it comes back. Trading Ramo puts out out of the playoffs if that happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 My biggest fear with Hiler is the return of the vertigo. It hasn't happened, and he may be over it. But there is a chance that he gets run over and it comes back. Trading Ramo puts out out of the playoffs if that happens. This is a really difficult thing to analyze. We do no know much at all about his vertigo and subsequent treatments and possible cures. It could have been something simple like air sickness and dizziness from a fear of heights or something much more severe. We as fans don't know and he had all those problems before he came to our team. There are some things that we do know... 1. He came back and played for the Ducks. 2. He was diagnosed as cured after taking time off to treat these symptoms. 3. He came and signed with the Flames as cured and past these problems. 4. He has shown no signs of these problems returning since joining the Flames. (At least we the Fans have no indication) So I guess he could revert and have some problems again but all we are told is that this not happening or likely to happen. I know I won't be losing any sleep over the possibility of it reoccurring again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob1974 Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 I'm more of the mind that Bruce Boudreau made poor decisions with his goaltending last year. With some of the stacked teams he's had in Washington and now Anaheim, you have to start wondering if he's much of a coach in the playoffs. Everyone knows putting the bulk of what is wrong on your goalies shoulders is just whitewashing other issues, such as being continually out-coached in line-matching. They made Hiller unwelcomed likely a year too soon at least. But it was no secret Hiller didn't want to sign in Anaheim. No point pretending Hiller screwed up, Anaheim did. We're just the beneficiaries. But it's painful to see Hiller just fine back there for 5 out of 6, and get hacked to bits when the team plays like crap, as they did with the Ducks. Forget pretending what happened in Anaheim was all Hiller not being worth anything, it's simply not true, and we aren't Anaheim, and we're not coached by Boudreau. You can't say this about Hiller and not allow that to be true about Rano either. The team has holes and to blame the goalie in either of their situations are false. Both have played very similar aside from that extremely good start for Hiller. They both let in a bad goal from time to time. They both shut the other team down from time to time. They both have good and bad games. The one thing Hiller didn't do in Anaheim was make that one save. Not specifically, just the one that shut the door, but the rest of the game, I agree, was on the team. I don't, but I see both goalies as pretty even. Ramos record is really good and he's won some games for us. If you consider him a backup, he has been the best backup we've ever had. Imagine if our backups had his record when we had Kipper. But like Deeds said, that's the past, time to move on. I think Ramo is better than we give him credit for and he will prove it with another team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 This is a really difficult thing to analyze. We do no know much at all about his vertigo and subsequent treatments and possible cures. It could have been something simple like air sickness and dizziness from a fear of heights or something much more severe. We as fans don't know and he had all those problems before he came to our team. There are some things that we do know... 1. He came back and played for the Ducks. 2. He was diagnosed as cured after taking time off to treat these symptoms. 3. He came and signed with the Flames as cured and past these problems. 4. He has shown no signs of these problems returning since joining the Flames. (At least we the Fans have no indication) So I guess he could revert and have some problems again but all we are told is that this not happening or likely to happen. I know I won't be losing any sleep over the possibility of it reoccurring again. The only thing we knew about his case was that he began suffering from it afer the All Star game. During the game, he was hit twice in the mask. A possible cause is a blow to the head, but the inner-ear problems could have been caused by illness, flying or swimming (even showering). It's an irrational fear of mine that he starts suppering from it again....but there is always a risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KACaribou Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 If the Flames play good team defence, keep the shots outside, work hard and backcheck we will always find a good goalie who can play well. It's no coincidence that all the bad goalies play for bad teams and all the good goalies play for good teams. A good goalie suddenly traded to the league's worst team suddenly becomes the NHL's worst goalie. As long as we aren't terrible, we'll find a good goalie to play for us whether it is Hiller, Ramo, Ortio, or one of our drafted youngsters down the road. Patrick Roy knew what he was doing when he demanded to be traded from a mediocre Habs team to the great Avalanche team that won the cup. He's lucky he wasn't sent to Calgary in the mid to late 90s - early 2000s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 There is no Kipper in Ramo no matter what your memories tell you. I dunno.. Current flames have actually made the statement that he's the closest thing to a kipper clone they have seen.. I would think they would know better than we would Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 I dunno.. Current flames have actually made the statement that he's the closest thing to a kipper clone they have seen.. I would think they would know better than we would You would think so. But then, how many of the current Flames saw the 2004 Kipper? Not the same as the 2013 Kipper, imho. Ortio reminds me of Kipper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s4xon Posted February 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 You would think so. But then, how many of the current Flames saw the 2004 Kipper? Not the same as the 2013 Kipper, imho. Ortio reminds me of Kipper. Which one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 Ortio has kipper qualities,mainly in his demeanor, but not enough in their style of play to make me think there is chance ortio plays at kippers level. I like ortio, always have, and I think he can play at ye NHL level but I think we forget just how crazy athletic Kipper was and how rare that is in goalies. I don't see the same natural athleticism in ortio, but I do see the same "awe shucks" kind of demeanor Kipper had in ortio which I think can be equally rare in goalies and something that is critical to playing in the NHL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 Ortio has kipper qualities,mainly in his demeanor, but not enough in their style of play to make me think there is chance ortio plays at kippers level. I like ortio, always have, and I think he can play at ye NHL level but I think we forget just how crazy athletic Kipper was and how rare that is in goalies. I don't see the same natural athleticism in ortio, but I do see the same "awe shucks" kind of demeanor Kipper had in ortio which I think can be equally rare in goalies and something that is critical to playing in the NHL That athleticism is what I saw in Ramo. Playing in the KHL kind of delayed his career in the NHL. I don't think (or really know for sure) he has Kipper's abilities, but like any asset, I would have liked to see him kept a bit longer. Without Hiller, he may have become a great goalie. Inconsistent starts kinda derailed that. So did two injuries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob1974 Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 Ramo got the elbowing end of the stick both years here. Berra was clearly way worse than he was but still got to run a long stretch of games. Ramo had only gotten 5. When he finished the year last year as our only goalie, he ran with it and did quite well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 Ramo got the elbowing end of the stick both years here. Berra was clearly way worse than he was but still got to run a long stretch of games. Ramo had only gotten 5. When he finished the year last year as our only goalie, he ran with it and did quite well. You speak as though hes gone already. The fact we have a guy on the farm running the net in Ortios absence whos only 1 injury away from being here, that nobody really knows, speaks volumes to the fact Ramo shouldnt be going anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darth_henning Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 Ortio has kipper qualities,mainly in his demeanor, but not enough in their style of play to make me think there is chance ortio plays at kippers level. I like ortio, always have, and I think he can play at ye NHL level but I think we forget just how crazy athletic Kipper was and how rare that is in goalies. I don't see the same natural athleticism in ortio, but I do see the same "awe shucks" kind of demeanor Kipper had in ortio which I think can be equally rare in goalies and something that is critical to playing in the NHL I don't know if I've seen enough of Ortio to say he won't be as good as Kipper in terms of ability to make stops and save games. I've only seen his NHL games, and honestly, I can see him being as good in that category with a couple more years experience. I do agree that I don't see the same athleticism and flexibility. I think anyone will be hard-pressed to match that for some time. It is indeed rare, but its not the only way a goalie can be good. Ramo got the elbowing end of the stick both years here. Berra was clearly way worse than he was but still got to run a long stretch of games. Ramo had only gotten 5. When he finished the year last year as our only goalie, he ran with it and did quite well. I agree. His save% and GAA are a little worse this year than Hiller, but neither by very much and they're hurt by a couple of bad blowoouts against him. He has a much better Win-Loss ratio in point of fact, which to me matters way more. I'd like to see him actually get a few straight starts. See what he can do if he's let to run with it. I have a bad feeling that if we let him go this summer he may wind up being the next Dubnyk on another team. But I don't see any way we won't keep Hiller, and Ortio may well be coming up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 You can't say this about Hiller and not allow that to be true about Rano either. The team has holes and to blame the goalie in either of their situations are false. Both have played very similar aside from that extremely good start for Hiller. They both let in a bad goal from time to time. They both shut the other team down from time to time. They both have good and bad games. The one thing Hiller didn't do in Anaheim was make that one save. Not specifically, just the one that shut the door, but the rest of the game, I agree, was on the team. I don't, but I see both goalies as pretty even. Ramos record is really good and he's won some games for us. If you consider him a backup, he has been the best backup we've ever had. Imagine if our backups had his record when we had Kipper. But like Deeds said, that's the past, time to move on. I think Ramo is better than we give him credit for and he will prove it with another team. And I wasn't. Just to clarify, I was responding to Zirak about Hiller's misfortunes in Anaheim last season. I didn't discuss Ramo because he wasn't the subject. But if you'd like my opinion on Ramo, I believe he follows the puck well in traffic, has good reflexes, but scrambles too much. I don't believe there's a huge difference between Hiller and Ramo in quality, but I believe their styles are a lot different. My preference for us is Hiller, because he stays in the net to a fault. But having said that, I like our tandem, and there has been more than one occasion I'd have gone with Ramo myself. It doesn't mean the result would have changed, just how I view aesthetics from team to team in styles of play expected. I'm in no rush to move either goalie currently. But let's say in the next 2, I'd go Hiller vs NYR and Ramo vs NYI, for example. The reasoning is style of play expected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted February 25, 2015 Report Share Posted February 25, 2015 There is no Kipper in Ramo no matter what your memories tell you. That glove save tonight looked pretty Kipper-like to me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darth_henning Posted February 25, 2015 Report Share Posted February 25, 2015 Ramo was our best player tonight. Other than a very unfortunate giveaway from Wideman that lead to the goal, he had everything they threw at him. Baring that bad pass, that game definitey would have gone to a shootout. Hope they give Ramo a few more starts on this road trip. Sad not to get any points tonight though when the Canucks and Jets did though. At least Edmonton did us a favor with the Wild though... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted February 25, 2015 Report Share Posted February 25, 2015 Which one? Lol...got me. Neither, I guess. He reminds me of the 2003 Kipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted February 25, 2015 Report Share Posted February 25, 2015 Ramo was our best player tonight. Other than a very unfortunate giveaway from Wideman that lead to the goal, he had everything they threw at him. Baring that bad pass, that game definitey would have gone to a shootout. Hope they give Ramo a few more starts on this road trip. Sad not to get any points tonight though when the Canucks and Jets did though. At least Edmonton did us a favor with the Wild though... yes that was just an unfortunate bouncing puck that handcuffed Wideman. I don't or can't blame him for that. Should have been a 0-0 game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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