darth_henning Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 IMO, Ortio is one lose away from being sent down. In the meantime lets enjoy the W's and reward the kid for several years of good play. Flames need to show him there is light at the end of tunnel. I don't think there is any hurry on moving a GT but you can been the issue is now being discussed and explored. Could be for sure, unless he wins about 5 more games first. Its the simplest option. Let him ride out the year in the AHL, and then come up next year with Hiller as backup probably. Still, its worth debating if his quality of play remains consistent. There's no hurry to move someone before the end of this year I agree, but there should be some interest in upgrading our bottom pairing. Diaz is servicable, but the others need to go out the door, but there's no way they're worth anything in trade, and I'm reluctant to give up any forward on the team right now other than Raymond or Bollig who also have little value. I would be open to moving a prospect forward (other than Poirier) with Hiller/Ramo and a pick for a better D though. Wotherspoon and Kanzig are probably serviciable in a year or two though. so the question is whether its worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheersMan Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 Could be for sure, unless he wins about 5 more games first. Its the simplest option. Let him ride out the year in the AHL, and then come up next year with Hiller as backup probably. Still, its worth debating if his quality of play remains consistent. There's no hurry to move someone before the end of this year I agree, but there should be some interest in upgrading our bottom pairing. Diaz is servicable, but the others need to go out the door, but there's no way they're worth anything in trade, and I'm reluctant to give up any forward on the team right now other than Raymond or Bollig who also have little value. I would be open to moving a prospect forward (other than Poirier) with Hiller/Ramo and a pick for a better D though. Wotherspoon and Kanzig are probably serviciable in a year or two though. so the question is whether its worth it. I think we're stuck with our bottom pairing dmen and IMO that's not a terrible thing. They get beat up pretty bad on these board but IMO they're a serviceable bottom pairing. If you want to compare them the Brodano then sure they're bad. Yes, they are over paid but that's the price you pay for drawing players through FA. We took Smid for a kid that would never play in this league (that was a good deal). I wouldn't want to go in the corner with Engelland, that's the toughness this team is lacking. I agree with you on Raymond and Bollig, I'd be hesitant to subtract any other at this time from the lineup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darth_henning Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 Its the +/- that's just terrible though. No, definitely not bro-dano levels are expected, but at least try and keep it out of the double digit negatives. Engelland is a toughness we need, but we also need toughness that can at least not screw things up enough to lead to goals against. And sadly he's caused at least a half dozen by mistakes that I remember. We need size and toughness, but his toughness isn't scaring the other team away from scoring goals, so its really not all that helpful. Gratz was sent down because he brought toughness but little else. Engelland brings toughness AND costs us. It's not terrible, I agree with you there. But its cost us a game or two, and with the playoff picture as it is that's not something we can afford to have keep happening. I don't watch the prospects, but how is Kanzig for physicality/toughness? At his size it might be worth bringing him up at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
420since1974 Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 Kanzig pulled two players out of a scrum at the same time. No problem with physicality/toughness there. His upside is limited to how much he can improve his skating. He definitely needs at least a year in the AHL, but if he puts it together, look out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khrox Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 Kanzig has the potential to be a bottom pairing guy (3/4 at best, assuming he shows significant improvement in both his skating and offence in the next couple years) but I would say 2-3 years away. Big and physical, and uses his size to his advantage as far as positioning goes, but skating is a bit of a weak spot (but one he has actively worked on since we drafted him). I feel he could be an improvement over Engelland and to a lesser extent Smid (maybe it's just me, but I actually prefer Smid over Engelland). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s4xon Posted January 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 ^ Goaltending thread guys. Lets get the topic back on track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
420since1974 Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 I hope that the Flames keep both Hiller & Ramo for this year. Orito can move up next season if his play warrants it. Calgary is not very deep in goalie prospects, though I'd rather keep what we have and try to improve the defense first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheersMan Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 Ortio has to get ANA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kehatch Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 Ortio has to get ANA. No question. Have to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 Well, Ortio may just ruin my dreams of a high draft pick. All the same, it's sure fun to watch the kid. Anything's possible now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrek Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 The fact Ortio is doing this all on the road is something else, he's helped us beat some tough buildings. You can't take Ortio out of net like this, play him until he loses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wreckening Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 Well, Ortio may just ruin my dreams of a high draft pick. All the same, it's sure fun to watch the kid. Anything's possible now. Sounds funny coming from you JJ, being the Ortio fan that you are. And I agree anything is possible now. The Find-A-Way Flames do it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darth_henning Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 Garunteed he has to get the start in Anaheim. If any goalie can win there, he's it. He's over a 0.95 through 4 games against tough opposition on the road. Maybe its just a hot streak, but I'm hoping he can actually play this way consistently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrek Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 Ortio is now 4-0, SV% of .958, and a GAA of 1.23 I believe he has earned yet another start, and it's going to be a big test facing the #1 team in the league, as they are also on a 4 game win streak. I don't think Ortio should stay up with the Flames all season for a few reasons. 1. Ortio's 1 way status doesnt kick in until next season, so we have flexibility for now 2. We need to raise Hiller's or Ramo's trade value before we make any hasty moves (hopefully for a young D) 3. Ortio could use some play-off experience in Addy before he's a full timer on the Flames Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 At this point I think the trade value of Ramo is what it is and I don't think you are gojng to get much more by playing him. I think he is likely worth a 4th rounder at the deadline maybe a 3rd but I stress maybe. I don't think playing him is gojng to change the evaluation. Ramo isn't going to be picked up by a team neededing a starter to run with he would be looked at by a team needing another option as part of a mix. You don't pay high for that. I'm rolling with ortio until he proves otherwise. Send Granland down who should be in the AHL anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 I hope that the Flames keep both Hiller & Ramo for this year. Orito can move up next season if his play warrants it. Calgary is not very deep in goalie prospects, though I'd rather keep what we have and try to improve the defense first. what a beautiful problem to have. I admit the kid is making me more of a believer each and every game. While i agree he needs to keep playing as long as hes hot, and i also understand the ramifications around the "earn the right to play".. keeping him up decimates our farm, trading 1 also hinders a lot of development reality dictates he goes back , and helps us win a championship on the farm.. you also weaken your trade position if teams know we have to dump one.. but i admit I'm torn , the kid is earning the right to stay, what does it say to the farm kids when he plays lights out and gets sent back.. absolutely he plays Anaheim.. and at least a home game so we can appreciate him first hand.. but unfortunately in the big picture he needs to be sent back at some point. There's also the unwritten rule you dont lose your job due to injury But, like i said, what a beautiful problem to have ! At this point I think the trade value of Ramo is what it is and I don't think you are gojng to get much more by playing him. I think he is likely worth a 4th rounder at the deadline maybe a 3rd but I stress maybe. I don't think playing him is gojng to change the evaluation. Ramo isn't going to be picked up by a team neededing a starter to run with he would be looked at by a team needing another option as part of a mix. You don't pay high for that. I'm rolling with ortio until he proves otherwise. Send Granland down who should be in the AHL anyway. gotta say , If Berra got us a 2nd, Ramo gets you at least that 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 what a beautiful problem to have. I admit the kid is making me more of a believer each and every game. While i agree he needs to keep playing as long as hes hot, and i also understand the ramifications around the "earn the right to play".. keeping him up decimates our farm, trading 1 also hinders a lot of development reality dictates he goes back , and helps us win a championship on the farm.. you also weaken your trade position if teams know we have to dump one.. but i admit I'm torn , the kid is earning the right to stay, what does it say to the farm kids when he plays lights out and gets sent back.. absolutely he plays Anaheim.. and at least a home game so we can appreciate him first hand.. but unfortunately in the big picture he needs to be sent back at some point. There's also the unwritten rule you dont lose your job due to injury But, like i said, what a beautiful problem to have ! gotta say , If Berra got us a 2nd, Ramo gets you at least that I think that's a one off. You caught a team and also kf I recall correctly Berra was not a pending free agent? Could be wrong. Either way I compare Ramo to the likes of Scrivens, Fasth, and Dubnyk who landed 3rd and 4th rounders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrek Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 Looks like Ortio gets the start tomorrow vs Anaheim.(Is anyone really surprised?) It's the last game before the All-Star break, win or lose I hope the Flames send him back down so he can play in his All-Star game as he has earned his right to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darth_henning Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 There's really no good answer here. Does Ramo deserve to lose his job because he got injured and the call up is way better than either current goalie? No. Does Ortio deserve to be sent down after playing some AMAZING games in goal? No. Does it send a good message to the farm that you can come up, outplay the starter, and still get sent down? No. Does it make sense to leave the farm with basically no goalie to help the team advance as far as they should in the playoffs? No. So keep him up or send him down, its unfair to a player and not ideal for the farm. Saddy neither Ramo nor Hiller have a lot of trade value at this point to be able to swap them for an ortio replacement for the farm AND something that the Flames need (ideally 4-6 defence). Tough decision either way. That said, packaging Ramo and either Raymond or Glencross or Jones might get us something that would. Who knows where management goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 There's really no good answer here. Does Ramo deserve to lose his job because he got injured and the call up is way better than either current goalie? No. Does Ortio deserve to be sent down after playing some AMAZING games in goal? No. Does it send a good message to the farm that you can come up, outplay the starter, and still get sent down? No. Does it make sense to leave the farm with basically no goalie to help the team advance as far as they should in the playoffs? No. So keep him up or send him down, its unfair to a player and not ideal for the farm. Saddy neither Ramo nor Hiller have a lot of trade value at this point to be able to swap them for an ortio replacement for the farm AND something that the Flames need (ideally 4-6 defence). Tough decision either way. That said, packaging Ramo and either Raymond or Glencross or Jones might get us something that would. Who knows where management goes. I don't think it was ever Ramos job. He was part of a rotation and now their is another effective member of that rotation who deserves to play. I do agree you shouldn't lose your job to injury but j also think you have to have a good handle on that job and also you need to be prepared to make exceptions (see Tom Brady). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 I don't think it was ever Ramos job. He was part of a rotation and now their is another effective member of that rotation who deserves to play. I do agree you shouldn't lose your job to injury but j also think you have to have a good handle on that job and also you need to be prepared to make exceptions (see Tom Brady). Are you saying we should under inflate the pucks, to give our goaltenders the advantage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 I don't think it was ever Ramos job. He was part of a rotation and now their is another effective member of that rotation who deserves to play. I do agree you shouldn't lose your job to injury but j also think you have to have a good handle on that job and also you need to be prepared to make exceptions (see Tom Brady). Aside from being highly overrated, thats the main reason I have never liked Tom Brady And as far as being part of the 2 goaltender rotation in Calgary, it is Ramos job, also why do we assume its Ramo? If we HAD to trade one it should be Hiller just due to long term continuity. But I still stand by my earlier stand that to trade any of the 3 would be an extreme mistake at this point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 Aside from being highly overrated, thats the main reason I have never liked Tom Brady And as far as being part of the 2 goaltender rotation in Calgary, it is Ramos job, also why do we assume its Ramo? If we HAD to trade one it should be Hiller just due to long term continuity. But I still stand by my earlier stand that to trade any of the 3 would be an extreme mistake at this point I don't agree that Hiller should be the one traded. He is the only goalie we have that has proven he can be a starter in this league. He has never had a season where he has posted a SV% under .910. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 I don't agree that Hiller should be the one traded. He is the only goalie we have that has proven he can be a starter in this league. He has never had a season where he has posted a SV% under .910. Hiller gets you best return, also clears 3 mill off the books.i also believe the difference in styles between ramo and Ortio is important, createsadvantage against different teams. Also, of the 2 Ramo has been more consistent in his game for us. Outside of the hot start, Ortio has allowed late backbreaking goals. You can argue team support, and i usually do, but facts are facts. With ramo I find you can get to him early, then he slams the door. Again its utterly ridiculous to trade any, but id feel less upset if it was Hiller.as a former goalie, I recognize chemistry and style and Ramo fits this team's style better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheersMan Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 I don't agree that Hiller should be the one traded. He is the only goalie we have that has proven he can be a starter in this league. He has never had a season where he has posted a SV% under .910. So Hillers 0.911 this year is better than Ramo's 0.911 last year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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