s4xon Posted January 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 Well another Ortio win...If it was not for him last night we lose. So how do you not start Ortio in San jose? If he win's in San Jose does that mean the end of Ramo at the trade deadline? BT has some hard decisions to ponder Orts most likely starts in SJ, however, even if he backstops the Flames to another win, 3 wins isn't enough of a sample size to warrant trading away one of your NHL goalies. That decision would be reserved for a timeline much closer to the trade deadline. However, the topic would definitely be under a microscope in the office. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 Well another Ortio win...If it was not for him last night we lose. So how do you not start Ortio in San jose? If he win's in San Jose does that mean the end of Ramo at the trade deadline? BT has some hard decisions to ponder Not sure about 4-5 straight starts but I say we play him in anaheim no matter what. ? Sooner or later we gotta win there I agree its too small a sample to implant him and trade one. Thats more of a question for the draft and before you even consider trading Ramo, he needs to be resigned.. hes too good to just get a low pick for his rights. Personally I say we go into camp with all 3 and let them decide whos odd man out. I think ortio deserves to be up next year, and for his development it makes more sense to keep Ramo. They will push each other, behind Hiller he plays every 4-5 games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob1974 Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 I don't see Ramo as being terrible as JJ points out. I see inconsistency, while I see the same in Hiller. I think they've been fairly even in their play. Ramo could be a good backup tender. Hopefully Ortio can continue his play. We need a consistent goalie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cccsberg Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 Orts most likely starts in SJ, however, even if he backstops the Flames to another win, 3 wins isn't enough of a sample size to warrant trading away one of your NHL goalies. That decision would be reserved for a timeline much closer to the trade deadline. However, the topic would definitely be under a microscope in the office. Sure 3 starts isn't enough, but a couple seasons of strong play in the AHL and doing well on call-ups will be. The Flames are in a position to trade off one of their goalies (Hiller or Ramo) to hopefully really bring in a solid D man. Since I believe Hiller and Ramo are about even (Hiller better this year, but only marginally) I'd be looking at Hiller as he has more NHL history and trade cachet at the moment and likely into the TDL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 I still can't believe we got a second round pick for Reto Berra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 Especially considering the coyotes only got a 3rd for Dubnyk, a 2nd for Bera was and is flat out larceny. I think when Ramo plays he is a very good goalie. When he sits for longer periods or doesn't consistently get into games he struggles but you could say that about a ton of goalies. Right now, I would go Ramo over Hiller as IMO Ramo has been the better of the two save for a week or so Hiller was red hot. Having said that, you roll with ortio as long as he is playing this well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 i did also hear a good article the other day that made lots of sense. Good teams have a goalie depth of 3. 2 up and #3 pushing from the farm. Look at Detroit, lost their top 2 but still had Mrazek(sp?) to toss in there.. this is why i dont see the trade off of one, until we have a new #3(eg , maybe Gilles on the farm next year ?).. if anything were to happen , im definitely not comfortable with whoever is our #4 right now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 i did also hear a good article the other day that made lots of sense. Good teams have a goalie depth of 3. 2 up and #3 pushing from the farm. Look at Detroit, lost their top 2 but still had Mrazek(sp?) to toss in there.. this is why i dont see the trade off of one, until we have a new #3(eg , maybe Gilles on the farm next year ?).. if anything were to happen , im definitely not comfortable with whoever is our #4 right now Yes, but Mrazek is not better than Jimmy Howard. In our case, Ortio is (appears to be) better than Hiller and Ramo. So three options, 1. Ramo to the minors - Ramo is a UFA at season's end so he'll probably sign somewhere else if the Flames try to stuff him in the minors in favour of Ortio. We will lose Ramo for nothing. 2. Hiller to the minors - Hiller will certainly not clear waivers. He'll get claimed and we'll lose him for nothing. 3. Ortio to the minors - Our best goalie is not playing for us when we need the points for a playoff race. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 Yes, but Mrazek is not better than Jimmy Howard. In our case, Ortio is (appears to be) better than Hiller and Ramo. So three options, 1. Ramo to the minors - Ramo is a UFA at season's end so he'll probably sign somewhere else if the Flames try to stuff him in the minors in favour of Ortio. We will lose Ramo for nothing. 2. Hiller to the minors - Hiller will certainly not clear waivers. He'll get claimed and we'll lose him for nothing. 3. Ortio to the minors - Our best goalie is not playing for us when we need the points for a playoff race. I don't think it is fair to claim that Ortio is our best goalie based on 2 games. He is our hottest goalie at the moment, but I need to see way more of a track record to name him our best goalie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cccsberg Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 i did also hear a good article the other day that made lots of sense. Good teams have a goalie depth of 3. 2 up and #3 pushing from the farm. Look at Detroit, lost their top 2 but still had Mrazek(sp?) to toss in there.. this is why i dont see the trade off of one, until we have a new #3(eg , maybe Gilles on the farm next year ?).. if anything were to happen , im definitely not comfortable with whoever is our #4 right now That may be the case, but sometimes you have to make decisions because of other factors like contracts, waiver rules and etc. Don't think Ortio has won anything yet but do think it's coming and we should be looking to trade off one of Hiller or Ramo before the TDL. The only downside I see is Addy gets left in the lurch for the stretch drive. Ok, then re-sign Ramo for two years then make your choice between the three after the season, i.e. before the draft. Then in the summer get Gillies signed to come to Addy. Any way you look at it, we'll be losing one of them next Fall as none of the three will make it through waivers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulstad Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 Yes, but Mrazek is not better than Jimmy Howard. In our case, Ortio is (appears to be) better than Hiller and Ramo. So three options, 1. Ramo to the minors - Ramo is a UFA at season's end so he'll probably sign somewhere else if the Flames try to stuff him in the minors in favour of Ortio. We will lose Ramo for nothing. 2. Hiller to the minors - Hiller will certainly not clear waivers. He'll get claimed and we'll lose him for nothing. 3. Ortio to the minors - Our best goalie is not playing for us when we need the points for a playoff race. Four words say you're over-reacting: "Sven's first 5 games" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 Yes, but Mrazek is not better than Jimmy Howard. In our case, Ortio is (appears to be) better than Hiller and Ramo. So three options, 1. Ramo to the minors - Ramo is a UFA at season's end so he'll probably sign somewhere else if the Flames try to stuff him in the minors in favour of Ortio. We will lose Ramo for nothing. 2. Hiller to the minors - Hiller will certainly not clear waivers. He'll get claimed and we'll lose him for nothing. 3. Ortio to the minors - Our best goalie is not playing for us when we need the points for a playoff race. i wasnt saying who was better than who, thats another debate. i was just saying that we need to keep all 3 in the system.. trading any of them is a bad idea until we have a trio left again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted January 17, 2015 Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 What teams are we going to trade Hiller or Ramo too? I don't see much of a market for Hiller, he has been pretty solid for us but on most playoff teams he is going to be a backup and with another year at $4.5mill I don't see anybody lining up to have him as their backup. Ramo has been ok, but I think there are better options out there if teams are looking for goaltending depth. I think Ramo will walk at the end of the year and either we will see another goaltender brought in or Ortio will be brought up full time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted January 17, 2015 Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 Yes, but Mrazek is not better than Jimmy Howard. In our case, Ortio is (appears to be) better than Hiller and Ramo. So three options, 1. Ramo to the minors - Ramo is a UFA at season's end so he'll probably sign somewhere else if the Flames try to stuff him in the minors in favour of Ortio. We will lose Ramo for nothing. 2. Hiller to the minors - Hiller will certainly not clear waivers. He'll get claimed and we'll lose him for nothing. 3. Ortio to the minors - Our best goalie is not playing for us when we need the points for a playoff race. Is trading Hiller or Ramo an option? IMHO, I think we could get a good return for Hiller. Hiller would make a fantastic backup on a contender. Then you keep Ramo and Ortio up here. Or, send Ortio back down until Gillies is ready to take over in the AHL, and let Ramo be our starter for the remainder of the season. The bottom line: We have too many NHL calibre goalies (3) if you consider Ramo one of them. And, Gillies will be knocking on the door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted January 17, 2015 Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 Is trading Hiller or Ramo an option? IMHO, I think we could get a good return for Hiller. Hiller would make a fantastic backup on a contender. Then you keep Ramo and Ortio up here. Or, send Ortio back down until Gillies is ready to take over in the AHL, and let Ramo be our starter for the remainder of the season. The bottom line: We have too many NHL calibre goalies (3) if you consider Ramo one of them. And, Gillies will be knocking on the door. Hiller is too expensive to be a backup for contending team. My guess is that Gillies is a least 3 years away from NHL duty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cccsberg Posted January 17, 2015 Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 Hiller is too expensive to be a backup for contending team. My guess is that Gillies is a least 3 years away from NHL duty. Injuries happen (e.g. Nashville), team upgrading happens (e.g. Minnesota) and some teams just need a starter (e.g. Edmonton). Won't say it will be easy but opportunities do arise. Agree with Gillies, and that's assuming he turns pro this summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s4xon Posted January 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 Four words say you're over-reacting: "Sven's first 5 games" 5 isn't a word. ************************************************ I'd like to see 20 starts for Ortio at the NHL level before I'd be singing his praises. Is he doing a bang up job right now? For sure. But I'd be a little reserved before giving him the keys to the mansion. Hiller is a proven starter and even he fell back to earth after putting on a show in the first quarter of the season. This discussion is much too early. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted January 17, 2015 Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 tosses 2 cents into the collection box at the door of this room... Hillar is the #1 and starter for this team this year. I doubt he will be traded even though he has the biggest return value atm. Ramo is most likely to be traded if the Flames feel they need to trade one of our goalies. Ortio is still the only one who can be sent down without having to clear waivers. He is only an injury call up, so expect him to be sent back down after he has had his exhibition here. JJ has been singing the praises of Ortio all year after his slow start. Kudos to JJ and you are not even being smug about it... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted January 17, 2015 Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 5 isn't a word. ************************************************ I'd like to see 20 starts for Ortio at the NHL level before I'd be singing his praises. Is he doing a bang up job right now? For sure. But I'd be a little reserved before giving him the keys to the mansion. Do any of our goaltenders have those keys right now? I see it like this: Which of our goaltenders are of the right age and skill level to win us a cup in the next ten years? Hiller: No Ramo: No Gillies: Maybe Ortio: Maybe MacDonald: ? No's are expendable. And interchangeable. And readily available on the free agent market for the right price. 'm not saying we can afford to lose Hiller and Ramo at the same time. I'm saying we don't need both. And replacements (Thomas Vokoun, Tim Thomas, etc) are readily available. Hiller is a proven starter and even he fell back to earth after putting on a show in the first quarter of the season. Patrick Roy is also a proven starter, but he is 49 years old. Hiller is turning 33 in a few weeks. He had a great start, but even then it wasn't like in his prime. He is starting to show that he is "Over the Hiller". Still lots of value there, but the only way he's winning anyone a cup is as a backup, on a contender, and this year. This discussion is much too early. I would argue that 20 games in, this discussion will be much too late. The discussion is early, yes. Too early? Not so sure. JJ has been singing the praises of Ortio all year after his slow start. Kudos to JJ and you are not even being smug about it... Thanks DD! I like to think I'm growing up, but that's because I like fiction Whatever happens, I think we are in for a real treat in net. Just wait until Gillies enters the scene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted January 17, 2015 Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 I don't think either Ramo or Hiller get you much in return in trade. What team right now is desperate for starting goalie and going to pay a high price for it? I can see a team wanting one of them for depth in a playoff run or as another option just in case but you don't pay much for that. I don't think either Ramo or hiller get much, probably a 3rd round pick like Dubnyk I agree that out of the current options Ortio is the only one who has high end starter potential, but the key is potential. Ortio has the talent and I really like his approach to the game so I think he will be a good NHL goalie and personally I am completely fine with trading one of Ramo or Hiller and letting Ortio be part of a tandem. The only problem with that is Ortio needs to get a certain amount of games and Hartley seems to prefer to stick with one guy so I don't think that's going to fly. Likely Ortio will go down to the A and they will finish the season with Ramo and hiller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted January 17, 2015 Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 I don't think either Ramo or Hiller get you much in return in trade. Admittedly, I agree. What if Calgary paid down Hiller's contract to a reasonable price? Maybe Tampa Bay? If Tampa had a half-decent backup, I'd put them as the best team in the league. And, Tampa has a highly unusual surplus of right-handed defensemen. Maybe for one of their prospects? Or a pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kehatch Posted January 17, 2015 Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 Hiller is tough to trade because he is paid as a starter. Even if we retain half the contract I think that is a tough move with another year on the contract. Besides, I would be concerned with just Ortio inked past this season. I think you can move Ramo and I think it may happen. I am still not sold Ortio is the goalie of the future. I am not saying he isn't, but I need to see more. Sure he has been good in two NHL starts this season. But look at his 11 games over the past two seasons and it isn't as rosy. Keep giving him starts until he loses the baton. Then assess. Putting hin back to the AHL doesn't hurt anything. Unless you get a 2 round pick or better for Ramo (which I doubt you do) there is no rush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted January 17, 2015 Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 5 isn't a word. ************************************************ I'd like to see 20 starts for Ortio at the NHL level before I'd be singing his praises. Is he doing a bang up job right now? For sure. But I'd be a little reserved before giving him the keys to the mansion. Hiller is a proven starter and even he fell back to earth after putting on a show in the first quarter of the season. This discussion is much too early. Agreed. Much too early. The only thing we are being shown right now is that our development at the goalie position is secure and on track. To earlly to be annointing or trading. Likely how this plays out is ortio goes back after the road trip, , possibly a home start. We finish the year with ramo and Hiller. Ramo gets resigned. No way we just let him walk Training camp next year determines our top 2. The sign to watch for is Gillies, if he signs one gets traded...if not then it gets interesting because its critical that Adirondack has a development goalie leading it We were able to trade Berra last year cuz Ortio is knocking, and even then had to go get Hiller. To trade ramo or Hiller now sets development back 2 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tincup1 Posted January 17, 2015 Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 I don't agree that it's too soon for Ortio. He's almost 24, been in the organization for 6 years, is an AHL all star this year, has been excellent and the difference in both starts he's been given, plus he was decent last year for the Flames. IMO, the Flames need better goaltending as Hiller/Ramo are both inconsistent. The opportunity is there right now for Ortio so I'm hoping he plays his way onto the team this season. What to do with Hiller or Ramo is a good problem to have as I think either could be moved for something. I bet the Oilers would take Hiller off our hands ! Anyway, it's always fun watching a fresh face come in and play well. Tonight's game should be a real test for Ortio ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheersMan Posted January 17, 2015 Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 I still can't believe we got a second round pick for Reto Berra. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjDr8VRHmgg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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