Goaltending

[Zirakzigil]

Ramo has been excellent this month. Have no problems going with him for the next few years. He still has some parts to his game that need work but hes been getting better and giving the team very stable goaltending. Gillies is another 3 years away, hes not going to be in the NHL anytime soon if hes developed properly. Ortio needs this year and maybe next year in the AHL before I think he will be ready for the NHL. He needs to play, no point in having him on the bench.

[s4xon]

Ramo has been excellent this month. Have no problems going with him for the next few years. He still has some parts to his game that need work but hes been getting better and giving the team very stable goaltending. Gillies is another 3 years away, hes not going to be in the NHL anytime soon if hes developed properly. Ortio needs this year and maybe next year in the AHL before I think he will be ready for the NHL. He needs to play, no point in having him on the bench.

 

Ramo has been good, and he's the one I've expected to come out on top for my own reasons, but it's too early to say he's the guy for the next few years.  If he has a decent season, and can solidify the starting position for next season, then I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.  This team has been burned too many times by the 'best player not in the nhl' routine.

[cfreining]

The "best player not in the NHL" wording only showed the desperation and helplessness of the Management. It shows that they couldn't land a top player in free agency.

 

Cervenka didn't turn out the way they wanted (bad start as well with a shortened season and blood knotes). If he would have had a normal 4 week training camp, would he have been a better fit? We will never know. On the other side the risk was very low, so I liked the deal.

 

Berra and Ramo. I like what I saw so far. They are missing consistency, but I think both have started to adjust to the NHL level. Are they top Goaltenders? No, are they good goaltenders? They may be able to reach that level this season.

 

If goaltending masks a lot of issues, then the goaltender should not be the starting point of a rebuild. We need to fix the holes apropriately, then we can get a good or very good goaltender. If the rebuild should lead to a successful future, then nothing should be masked or covered.

[travel_dude]

Well we do still have a top 4 D on injury list.  With the addition of Smid(kudos to Feaster on that trade) we can now boast a respectable D when all is healthy.

 

I patiently wait for Wideman to return to see what the defense can do then. Russel has been a fine addition and does not play small hockey. None of our D has even reached 31 years old yet. Healthy D should also help our Goaltending no matter who we put in net. 

I can't put my finger on why this team has such issues clearing the zone.  We cycle the puck in the offensive zone really well, and can win a game (almost) on that alone.  We seem to get into situations where we spend more than a couple of attempts getting the puck out.  We get control, put it up the boards weakly where the opposition is.  Or we try a short pass to a forward where it gets turned over.  More times than not, this results in a whistle (followed by a faceoff loss), a penalty, a scoring attempt, or a goal.

 

Getting Gio back coincided with the goaltending improving, but the same gaffs are being made.  Too many minutes played by some D?  Players being winded after a long cycle in the D zone?

 

This happens almost every game, whether winning or losing.  Like I said, can't isolate the cause.  Hop Hartley can, although he hasn't solved it yet either.  Do we need a 3/4 pairing playing 5/6 roles, and thereby sharing the minutes more evenly? 

[DirtyDeeds]

I can't put my finger on why this team has such issues clearing the zone.  We cycle the puck in the offensive zone really well, and can win a game (almost) on that alone.  We seem to get into situations where we spend more than a couple of attempts getting the puck out.  We get control, put it up the boards weakly where the opposition is.  Or we try a short pass to a forward where it gets turned over.  More times than not, this results in a whistle (followed by a faceoff loss), a penalty, a scoring attempt, or a goal.

 

Getting Gio back coincided with the goaltending improving, but the same gaffs are being made.  Too many minutes played by some D?  Players being winded after a long cycle in the D zone?

 

This happens almost every game, whether winning or losing.  Like I said, can't isolate the cause.  Hop Hartley can, although he hasn't solved it yet either.  Do we need a 3/4 pairing playing 5/6 roles, and thereby sharing the minutes more evenly? 

Well our goals against dropped dramatically as soon as Gio returned. Suddenly we are playing a bunch of games where we no longer letting in 3-4 or even 5 goals.

 

Clearing has always been an issue for this team and even Butler has picked up his game in that area a bit.

[phoenix66]

The "best player not in the NHL" wording only showed the desperation and helplessness of the Management. It shows that they couldn't land a top player in free agency.

 

Cervenka didn't turn out the way they wanted (bad start as well with a shortened season and blood knotes). If he would have had a normal 4 week training camp, would he have been a better fit? We will never know. On the other side the risk was very low, so I liked the deal.

 

Berra and Ramo. I like what I saw so far. They are missing consistency, but I think both have started to adjust to the NHL level. Are they top Goaltenders? No, are they good goaltenders? They may be able to reach that level this season.

 

If goaltending masks a lot of issues, then the goaltender should not be the starting point of a rebuild. We need to fix the holes apropriately, then we can get a good or very good goaltender. If the rebuild should lead to a successful future, then nothing should be masked or covered.

  

I can't put my finger on why this team has such issues clearing the zone.  We cycle the puck in the offensive zone really well, and can win a game (almost) on that alone.  We seem to get into situations where we spend more than a couple of attempts getting the puck out.  We get control, put it up the boards weakly where the opposition is.  Or we try a short pass to a forward where it gets turned over.  More times than not, this results in a whistle (followed by a faceoff loss), a penalty, a scoring attempt, or a goal.

 

Getting Gio back coincided with the goaltending improving, but the same gaffs are being made.  Too many minutes played by some D?  Players being winded after a long cycle in the D zone?

 

This happens almost every game, whether winning or losing.  Like I said, can't isolate the cause.  Hop Hartley can, although he hasn't solved it yet either.  Do we need a 3/4 pairing playing 5/6 roles, and thereby sharing the minutes more evenly? 

Its an evolution of learning. Differenr positions mature at different rates.if you tossed a team of nothing but rookies on the nice, the girwards would get up to speed first..then the dmen..then the goaltender. Hence why a shut down goalie masks bad defense. If you played a chl team against chicago night after night, , theyd score goals, but lose badly.

The forwards have an obligation to help the defense, then the defense has an obligation to help the goaltending.

Our goalies are now consistently allowing 2 or less goals, and getting better. Goaltending is no longer an issue. I have no issues with running with these 2.

The issue now is too many quality scoring chances, and our own offense.

I think the issue we have with getting out of our zone, etc.. is inexperience, and fatigue. We have no gas left when teams kick it up gear.we lack a shut down dman ( like a bouwmeester,or a young Robin Regehr) and our forwards need to become essentially like 3 more dmen on the ice, at least until we start scoring more.

Those of us who remember the young guns, remember a team that had low scoring, many 1 goal games. Scoring centered around iggy. The problem was we needed to score first to win. We could hold a lead, but we were notorious for getting scored on early and often. We had to basically shut them out to win.

Along came kipper whos biggest contribution was getting us out of the first periods. The biggest issue was scoring. After iggys line we had none, but our dgame and work ethic was solid.

This team cant hold leads, we do have adequate spread out scoring, but 8ur d gets overworked from forwards not doing their part, and they are basically too young and inexperienced to handle it. They in turn hang the goalies out to dry. The goalies stop most but cant stop them all

So..the verdict is, focus needs to be on improving the dmen.in the meantime, all forwards need to be defensive, we cant afford a single minded scoring mentality because we cant compensate (hence why sven is currently in abbotsford).we can open it up, but then we lose 6-5.

Part of this is going to come thru development, others need to be moved out

[Lucid_Flame91]

Not sure what happened last night but I read on the heats website:

 

In the opening period, the Comets got on the board first on a goal from Kellan Lain at 14:55. Less than two minutes later, Patrick Mullen made it 2-0 Utica, which ended Joni Ortio’s night as Joey MacDonald came on relief. Shots on goal were 11-9 in favour of the Heat.

 

Joey MacDonald was charged with the loss for the Abbotsford Heat as he turned away 17 of 18 shots while Joacim Eriksson picked up the win stopping 26 of 28 shots.

 

 

the flu has been hitting the team, so could of been a bad game time decision to play him?

[DirtyDeeds]

Not sure what happened last night but I read on the heats website:

 

In the opening period, the Comets got on the board first on a goal from Kellan Lain at 14:55. Less than two minutes later, Patrick Mullen made it 2-0 Utica, which ended Joni Ortio’s night as Joey MacDonald came on relief. Shots on goal were 11-9 in favour of the Heat.

 

Joey MacDonald was charged with the loss for the Abbotsford Heat as he turned away 17 of 18 shots while Joacim Eriksson picked up the win stopping 26 of 28 shots.

 

 

the flu has been hitting the team, so could of been a bad game time decision to play him?

Good thing that was not Berra pulled in that game or JJ would have been all over it. AS it is there is little to be concerned about as everyone teams and players go through bad games. I certainly am not going to hold it against Ortio.

[Lucid_Flame91]

Gillies leads U.S. past Finland in WJC exhibition

 

Providence College goalie Jon Gillies made 38 saves, including a penalty shot in the second period, to lead the United States National Junior Team to a 3-2 victory Sunday during a World Junior Championship exhibition match at Lindab Arena in Angelholm, Sweden.

 

Gillies, a third-round (No. 75) pick of the Calgary Flames in the 2012 NHL Draft, served as the backup to John Gibson for the gold medal-winning U.S. National Junior Team at the 2013 WJC in Ufa, Russia. He is the likely starter for the U.S. at this year's event in Malmo, Sweden, from Dec. 26 through Jan. 5.

 

The United States begins defense of its gold medal against the Czech Republic on Thursday at 11:30 a.m. ET (NHLN-US, NHL.com).

 

"Today is probably the type of game that we have to win, a 3-2 type game, with this team," said U.S. coach Don Lucia. "Jon Gillies did a good job in net. He needs to be our best player night in and night out. The guys that we need to score scored a couple goals tonight. We got pucks down below the goal line and started to grind things out, which is where we'll be at our best."

 

Source: http://www.nhl.com/ice/blogpost.htm?id=24221&navid=nhl:topheads

[Zirakzigil]

Ramo has been good, and he's the one I've expected to come out on top for my own reasons, but it's too early to say he's the guy for the next few years.  If he has a decent season, and can solidify the starting position for next season, then I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.  This team has been burned too many times by the 'best player not in the nhl' routine.

The Flames will not be close to competing for at least 3 or 4 years. Ramo has shown so far that hes capable of holding down the fort. Hes not going to steal many games for the Flames and the Flames dont need that. 

[Lucid_Flame91]

Ortio and the Heat end their 3 game losing skid, with a 3-2 SO win, Ortio was solid in net didnt let a shooter get one past him in the shoot out. Granlund and Knight with the SO tallies.

[Carty]

Berra hit a milestone last night...  

 

Berra stopped 29 shots in regulation, three in overtime and three more in the shootout as he became the first goaltender in NHL history to collect his first five wins in extra-time....

[travel_dude]

Berra hit a milestone last night...  

 

Berra stopped 29 shots in regulation, three in overtime and three more in the shootout as he became the first goaltender in NHL history to collect his first five wins in extra-time....

Maybe Hartley could try Berra for the 1st period, Ramo for the 2nd and 3rd, and put Berra in for any shootouts. Or replace the goaltender as soon as he lets in one because they seem to come in bunches.

[DirtyDeeds]

Maybe Hartley could try Berra for the 1st period, Ramo for the 2nd and 3rd, and put Berra in for any shootouts. Or replace the goaltender as soon as he lets in one because they seem to come in bunches.

I don't think this would work well. We used to crucify Iron Mike for pulling goalies and he had mellowed a fair amount from his reputation days. I can't see this method above instilling any confidence in either goalie.

 

The fan960 did talk to Hartley about putting in Berra just for shootouts and I remember some of his reply. He said he tried it in Atlanta and it didn't work out so well. He also said that this move was not popular with the conventional thinkers or something like that and he got roasted for it. He did admit he had considered it with Berra this year but decided against it.

[travel_dude]

I don't think this would work well. We used to crucify Iron Mike for pulling goalies and he had mellowed a fair amount from his reputation days. I can't see this method above instilling any confidence in either goalie.

 

The fan960 did talk to Hartley about putting in Berra just for shootouts and I remember some of his reply. He said he tried it in Atlanta and it didn't work out so well. He also said that this move was not popular with the conventional thinkers or something like that and he got roasted for it. He did admit he had considered it with Berra this year but decided against it.

Should have put the in the post. Of those options I mentioned, the only one that could have a chance of working was the SO one. Un Berra's case, I think he could only be good if he played the majority of the game. Going in cold would probably not work very often.

[Lucid_Flame91]

Goalie Jon Gillies (Providence College; Calgary Flames) made 23 saves in his first career start at the WJC. While he didn't need to be spectacular, Gillies made some key saves at key moments in the game. His shutout bid was denied by Czech defenseman Michal Plutnar, who ripped a shot home from between the circles with his team on the power play 5:47 into the third period.

 

A huge giveaway on the PK from a player on team USA infront of the net ruined the shutout bid, but a good start from Gillies, they play again on saturday.

[jjgallow]

Gooo  Gillies!   Except when you play Team Canada.

 

Otherwise, Gooooo Gillies!  lol

[lordxan]

Well one positive is our goal tending, both are now above .900 save % on the season and climbing! Looking at a game by game most are above .950 save percentage since Dec, our goalies are trending in the right direction!

 

If they both keep this up, they will both be in the top 20 or better in the NHL  by season's end.

 

Now if they can find a solution to the offence (partly related to FO's and puck possession, too much time and energy wasted chasing the puck) and the soft checking from behind checking (both in the D zone and the fore check)

[phoenix66]

Well one positive is our goal tending, both are now above .900 save % on the season and climbing! Looking at a game by game most are above .950 save percentage since Dec, our goalies are trending in the right direction!

 

If they both keep this up, they will both be in the top 20 or better in the NHL  by season's end.

 

Now if they can find a solution to the offence (partly related to FO's and puck possession, too much time and energy wasted chasing the puck) and the soft checking from behind checking (both in the D zone and the fore check)

Yup, totally agree. Its safe to say at this point that our goaltending is no longer a question mark. Solid tending night in night out regardless of who gets the nod.

Time to work on the d from all 5 skaters

[kehatch]

Yup, totally agree. Its safe to say at this point that our goaltending is no longer a question mark. Solid tending night in night out regardless of who gets the nod.

Time to work on the d from all 5 skaters

 

I disagree.  You can't limit your evaluation to the good times and ignore the bad.  Yes both goalies have been good over the past month.  But goaltending was really bad prior to that.  When you look at the body of work (the entire season) Calgary still has league worst goaltending.  

 

I agree that it is a positive sign.  If the goalies sustain this and don't cool off significantly than I will agree that we can stop worrying about our tenders.  But right now I still think it is a weak area for Calgary with two unproven goalies in net.  

[phoenix66]

I disagree.  You can't limit your evaluation to the good times and ignore the bad.  Yes both goalies have been good over the past month.  But goaltending was really bad prior to that.  When you look at the body of work (the entire season) Calgary still has league worst goaltending.  

 

I agree that it is a positive sign.  If the goalies sustain this and don't cool off significantly than I will agree that we can stop worrying about our tenders.  But right now I still think it is a weak area for Calgary with two unproven goalies in net.  

What I mean is looking for new goalies is no longer necessary, it would serve no purpose. Both goalies are giving us a chance to win every night. If they start regressing then fine, but as of right now we have our goaltending where it needs to be and they keep getting better. Id be fully comfortable dumping jmac for anything we can get now.

[phoenix66]

What we should be concerned with now, is Berra's Ufa status next season. I believe hes earned himself an extension already. Question now, is how long do you wait and what do you give him. You can be safe in saying he gets at least what Ramo is getting

[cross16]

What we should be concerned with now, is Berra's Ufa status next season. I believe hes earned himself an extension already. Question now, is how long do you wait and what do you give him. You can be safe in saying he gets at least what Ramo is getting

I think you wait. I agree with Kehatch while yes the flames goaltending has played better I think we should stop short of saying we shouldn't be looking or that they've found their goalies. These two have been brutal for a month or so and then good for a month or so and you need to see far more consistency IMO before you anoint them as the answer. I personally wouldn't even think about extending Berra unto he plays the full year and shows me what he can do over a full season. Extending a goalie while they are playing well is one of the worst mistakes a GM can make. Berra isn't playing all enough or looking at enough $ in fa that would make you want to sign him right now.

[phoenix66]

I think brutal is taking it too far. In each goalies case their first ten games contained one, maybe two "bad" games that cost us a chance to win.but both were adequate in some cases stellar. Now that they have settled in its consistent night in night out.

Im not thinking a long term #1 starters salary, im thinking more a 2 year bridge. 2.5 is a reasonable 2 year salary.

We get him signed to that, now we could dangle Ramo as trade bait to some on hard goalie times.if you don't find it he stays, but it gives you the option. If you pull it off, now you can bring in ortio next year as a proper back up.by the time that 2 year is up, youll know where gillies is at.

If berra continues to improve at the rate he has been, somebody gives him 4mill+ after this season.right now you could likely get him for 5mill over 2.thats cheap for your starter.

[cross16]

I think brutal is taking it too far. In each goalies case their first ten games contained one, maybe two "bad" games that cost us a chance to win.but both were adequate in some cases stellar. Now that they have settled in its consistent night in night out.

Im not thinking a long term #1 starters salary, im thinking more a 2 year bridge. 2.5 is a reasonable 2 year salary.

We get him signed to that, now we could dangle Ramo as trade bait to some on hard goalie times.if you don't find it he stays, but it gives you the option. If you pull it off, now you can bring in ortio next year as a proper back up.by the time that 2 year is up, youll know where gillies is at.

If berra continues to improve at the rate he has been, somebody gives him 4mill+ after this season.right now you could likely get him for 5mill over 2.thats cheap for your starter.

I don't think there is anyway Berra gets 4 mill per as a starter I think if he continues on this pace he is looking at 3 mill MAX which is why I don't see the value in negotiating right now. One season of ok starter play which is best case for Berra as it stands right now, doesn't get you 4 mill especially when there are likely to be more NHL proven options available. 4 million puts him in , Cory Schneider, anti niemi and just below Bobrovsky territory and no way is he worth anything close to that.