Goaltending

[SheriforPM]

Let's see: Ramo has been awful, Berra has not. They've started an equal number of games. The only thing I think you can criticize is why it took so long to get Berra up.

 

Berra gives the team the best chance to win every night. Both of his wins were steals where he was the difference maker. He stopped 43 shots last night. Ramo doesn't inspire that kind of confidence and has yet to prove he can steal one.

Plus I really liked Yogi in the shootout. He looked calm and poised. He played a good game last night!

[swayze67]

I don't know how anyone can make any about the quality of any one of our goaltenders when our defensive zone play is so pathetic ( and not just the d-men or the rookies ).  All the goaltenders are being sacrificed.

 

That said I think Berra played great last night.

 

I also think that the games should be split up some because how else do you see what Ramo has to offer. But Hartley does have his favorites and maybe for good reason ( or not ).  I wonder if Ramo will give up at some point and head back to the KHL.  And to think Gillies is the next coming of Kipper is giving him way to much credit at this point.  Let's face it - he's playing college hockey.

[travel_dude]

I don't know how anyone can make any about the quality of any one of our goaltenders when our defensive zone play is so pathetic ( and not just the d-men or the rookies ).  All the goaltenders are being sacrificed.

 

That said I think Berra played great last night.

 

I also think that the games should be split up some because how else do you see what Ramo has to offer. But Hartley does have his favorites and maybe for good reason ( or not ).  I wonder if Ramo will give up at some point and head back to the KHL.  And to think Gillies is the next coming of Kipper is giving him way to much credit at this point.  Let's face it - he's playing college hockey.

We are truly exposed with Gio out; Butler just doesn't have it to be a top line guy.  Brodie is doing well, but still makes rookie mistakes.  Wideman has good night offensively and bad night defensively.  Russell is amazing for his size; he play like a giant.

Smith is not a bad 5/6 guy, and Smid will become a 3/4 th guy soon enough.

 

The goalie situation is distressing.  Even when Berra has an awesome game, he still lets in some squeakers.  Ramo has looked good and bad in the same game, but is not getting any opportunity to show that he can improve.  If we are trying to find that elusive #1 goalie, then we need to play them equally and play the best lines available.  That does not include Jackman as a 4th liner or Gratts playing every game.  Nobody will fight him (other than a Gazdic or Parros type), so what is he taking up space every game for?  I would rather see a Knight or B.Jones playing opposite Bouma and Colborne/Backlund and have them play 10 minutes.

 

As far as Ortio goes, he is the mid-range guy, in case Berra or Ramo can't hold the job.  Don't want to see him till later in the year, though. 

 

Gillies is currently playing elite-level goaltending, the same way Johnny Hockey is playing elite-level LW.  Gillies has gotten They will both have an adjustment to pro hockey.  I expect Gillies to continue to excell this year, as he has already posted 8 shutouts in the early part of his second season.  That is other-worldly, not the second coming.  His size and technique give him an early advantage over Kipper.  He may never surpass Kipper, but I think he will surprise a lot of people. 

[Zirakzigil]

Ramo hasnt been given a fair shot to run with anything. Its a forgone conclusion to what will happen. Sometime in the near future he will be given a game against a top team, the Flames will play bad and Hartley will go back to Berra.

[Lucid_Flame91]

Gillies is currently playing elite-level goaltending, the same way Johnny Hockey is playing elite-level LW.  Gillies has gotten They will both have an adjustment to pro hockey.  I expect Gillies to continue to excell this year, as he has already posted 8 shutouts in the early part of his second season.  That is other-worldly, not the second coming.  His size and technique give him an early advantage over Kipper.  He may never surpass Kipper, but I think he will surprise a lot of people. 

 

To say our goalies will never surpass Kipper is just something you dont want to say. Plain and simple kipper wasnt good enough for a cup on this team. We NEED a goalie to surpass kipper or were going to go through a decade long rebuild like the oilers.

[PokernHockey]

I think these three articles are very poinient for this discussion, and they address the counter arguement to people who point to his SV% and GGA as clear proof that Berra is not an NHL tender.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/shot-quality-reveals-rasks-true-value/

I would argue that Berra (and Ramo, as well as to a lesser extent JMac since the team was playing better when he was up) would be pretty high up there for the difficulty of shots he faces.

 

The two previous articles:

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/introducing-the-shot-quality-project/

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/introducing-the-shot-quality-project-part-ii/

 

 

Warning: These are discussing advanced stats, so if you believe that GAA and SV% tell the whole story about a goalies skill or don't believe in them, Not looking at anyone in particular on THAT one, you likely won't like the thesis or the dissonence these articles will raise with your way of thinking.

 

Interesting fact I was told the other day: based on the speed of an NHL shot, it is impossible for a human to react to a shot from the hashmarks. So if a shooter rips a shot from in close, it is all about anticipation/dumb luck. In my mind its pretty easy to accept if you think about it, however I wish I could find the academic study that explores it in far more detail then I ever have.

[travel_dude]

To say our goalies will never surpass Kipper is just something you dont want to say. Plain and simple kipper wasnt good enough for a cup on this team. We NEED a goalie to surpass kipper or were going to go through a decade long rebuild like the oilers.

Truth is we had a very average team during our cup run. No elite players. No true #1C. Drafting after that year was horrible.

When I say he may never surpass, that means records, games played, etc. There are few in the NHL that will surpass him.

[PokernHockey]

To say our goalies will never surpass Kipper is just something you dont want to say. Plain and simple kipper this team wasnt good enough for a cup on this team even on kippers (and iggys) shoulders. We NEED a goalie to surpass kipper and a team infront of him or were going to go through a decades long rebuild like the oilers.

[cross16]

To say our goalies will never surpass Kipper is just something you dont want to say. Plain and simple kipper wasnt good enough for a cup on this team. We NEED a goalie to surpass kipper or were going to go through a decade long rebuild like the oilers.

A goalie is one piece of the puzzle, that's it. Flames could never get he pieces to work around kipper and that was the issue not kipper. Kipper is better than just about every goalie who has won a cup since he became a flame

[Lucid_Flame91]

Results matter in this world, and kipper and iggy both didnt make them happen. Nor did they give this team the best as they left it.

 

There was some quality other than just those two in the '04 run.

[Lucid_Flame91]

Side note - Ortio is now 8-0 with the heat as of tonight, they battled back and won in OT 4-3, faced 40 shots

[jjgallow]

Side note - Ortio is now 8-0 with the heat as of tonight, they battled back and won in OT 4-3, faced 40 shots

 

There's nothing side-note about it, imho.  RetRamoMac is the side note....it's really all about Ortio and Gillies this year.

 

37 saves, wow!  He must be approaching some kind of record soon for most consecutive wins?

 

He was first star of the game, obviously.

 

Still the 2nd-best rookie in the AHL, next only to Jon Gibson.

[Lucid_Flame91]

There's nothing side-note about it, imho.  RetRamoMac is the side note....it's really all about Ortio and Gillies this year.

 

37 saves, wow!  He must be approaching some kind of record soon for most consecutive wins?

 

He was first star of the game, obviously.

 

Still the 2nd-best rookie in the AHL, next only to Jon Gibson.

 

It really is about Ortio and Gillies, and they both are playing shutout hockey right now, Gillies is playing at a whole new level. And Ortio has basically carried the heat to a franchise best win streak, but still hasnt lost a game yet.

[cross16]

Results matter in this world, and kipper and iggy both didnt make them happen. Nor did they give this team the best as they left it.

 

There was some quality other than just those two in the '04 run.

And that's fine it's just ridiculous to suggest the flames will go nowhere unless they get a goalie better than kipper. Plenty of teams have great success without an elite goalie and the flames can to if the team is built right.

[phoenix66]

I take 10 days off and leave the country and come back to way too many points that need to be addressed, cant possibly quote them all..so ill just make a summary..

1) ramo and berra are likely the goaltending combo til end of next season, lets live with it. Ortio is at best a year away from a back up role and gilies at least 2. Any less than that and we are not developing properly. As much as I hate the canucks, schneider was the poster child for properly grooming a goalie.

2) people who insist on calling R&B "non nhl goalies" obviously have no clue how the position is played, by their definition the following is just a sampling of other non nhl goalies: fasth, hillier, khabibulin, Crawford,Quick, Emery. The simple truth is we have a team that,requires a goalie to steal games on a nightly basis or we wont win. Thats the way it is, and is part of the rebuild process. Both our goslies keep us in games, and have stolen some.

3) Brossoit was not the second coming , and likely will not bite us..ever.his timetable for being nhl ready put him 3rd behind Ortio and Gillies, he was a valuable commodity. The argument being made that he instantly became their goalie of the future only speaks to the sad state of the oilers goaltending prospects. Assuming hes going to be an nhl all star based on his whl play has obviously never heard of Alexander Fomichev

[jjgallow]

I take 10 days off and leave the country and come back to way too many points that need to be addressed, cant possibly quote them all..so ill just make a summary..

1) ramo and berra are likely the goaltending combo til end of next season, lets live with it. Ortio is at best a year away from a back up role and gilies at least 2. Any less than that and we are not developing properly. As much as I hate the canucks, schneider was the poster child for properly grooming a goalie.

2) people who insist on calling R&B "non nhl goalies" obviously have no clue how the position is played, by their definition the following is just a sampling of other non nhl goalies: fasth, hillier, khabibulin, Crawford,Quick, Emery. The simple truth is we have a team that,requires a goalie to steal games on a nightly basis or we wont win. Thats the way it is, and is part of the rebuild process. Both our goslies keep us in games, and have stolen some.

3) Brossoit was not the second coming , and likely will not bite us..ever.his timetable for being nhl ready put him 3rd behind Ortio and Gillies, he was a valuable commodity. The argument being made that he instantly became their goalie of the future only speaks to the sad state of the oilers goaltending prospects. Assuming hes going to be an nhl all star based on his whl play has obviously never heard of Alexander Fomichev

 

Did they have TV, Radio, or Internet where you went?....

[SheriforPM]

I have to admit JJ that I'm tired of you slamming Berra. He played a great game last night and most nights he gives us a chance to win. 

He isn't Kipper but that's not a bad thing. Kipper wasn't the lights out tender everyone makes him out to be either.

Yes.. I said it. 

 

Both of them had good days and bad, the difference is.. Kipper for most of his career here had a much better defence in front of him. It wasn't that long ago that people said we had the best defence in the league and somehow we still managed to blow it. Either just out of the playoffs, Or losing in the first round.

 

Give the guy a break, he made some amazing saves last night and the rolling kick my pad in the air save was just as good as anything Kipper ever did.

 

As far as your infatuation with Gillies and Ortio, I will reserve judgement until I see them play in the NHL. Touting prospects is fun. I understand that. It's like hoping for an amazing Christmas present looking at the huge box under the tree.

 

Downside to that is, it might not be up to your extremely high standards you place on it/them. 

[kehatch]

I am still not sure what we have in Berra.  But I really don't know what we have in Ramo.  Ramo has had one start since Berra has gotten here.  Berra has a 8 to 1 ratio of starts.  Very few goalies are given that workload.  That is a Kipper like workload.  

 

I think it is ridiculous that Berra is getting that ratio of starts.  Especially since he hasn't been lights out.  Too much workload for one goalie and not enough for the other. 

[travel_dude]

I have to admit JJ that I'm tired of you slamming Berra. He played a great game last night and most nights he gives us a chance to win. 

He isn't Kipper but that's not a bad thing. Kipper wasn't the lights out tender everyone makes him out to be either.

Yes.. I said it. 

 

Kipper was a great, athletic goalie (who smoked like a chimney).  He was almost perfect on 1st shots, but got out of position on rebounds because he went down too early (see 1st shot).  Against a team like Vancouver, he couldn't stop the cross-crease passes between Sedin/Sedin/Burrows, so he was sometimes lit up.  Also, because he was small-ish, he had a lot of room over his blocker; most nights he could easily deflect with blocker or stick.  Two years ago, he had a really good year, with adequate defense.  Last year he was out of game shape, and was injured later on, so we never got the "normal" Kipper SA%. 

 

Berra (and Gillies) both are big guys, so they have the advantage of defending the top half of the net, even when they are in the butterfly.  Even Ramo (6'0") to a certain extent.  Right now, both Berra and Ramo are fine for a rebuilding tem.  They will both get better with time and more starts, so I don't worry so much.  Either (B/R) could become elite; we just don't know with less than 10 games each.

[SheriforPM]

Kipper was a great, athletic goalie (who smoked like a chimney).  He was almost perfect on 1st shots, but got out of position on rebounds because he went down too early (see 1st shot).  Against a team like Vancouver, he couldn't stop the cross-crease passes between Sedin/Sedin/Burrows, so he was sometimes lit up.  Also, because he was small-ish, he had a lot of room over his blocker; most nights he could easily deflect with blocker or stick.  Two years ago, he had a really good year, with adequate defense.  Last year he was out of game shape, and was injured later on, so we never got the "normal" Kipper SA%. 

 

Berra (and Gillies) both are big guys, so they have the advantage of defending the top half of the net, even when they are in the butterfly.  Even Ramo (6'0") to a certain extent.  Right now, both Berra and Ramo are fine for a rebuilding tem.  They will both get better with time and more starts, so I don't worry so much.  Either (B/R) could become elite; we just don't know with less than 10 games each.

I agree and I also agree with Kehatch. Both should be shouldering the load aka a 1A 1B tandem. That way we or more accurately the coaches and management can find out exactly what we have going forward.

[phoenix66]

I agree and I also agree with Kehatch. Both should be shouldering the load aka a 1A 1B tandem. That way we or more accurately the coaches and management can find out exactly what we have going forward.

While I agree both should be getting work, this is not like when jmac was up, now we have a true battle for starter going. We dont see the practices, or the coaching. Berra in nearly all his starts has been playing like a starter. Hes giving the team a chance to win, in some cases stealing points. Ramo has done this too, but there is obviously something in berra that is giving the coaches confidence that hes the guy to start. Ramo now needs to sparkle in his starts to start wrestling bet time from Berra.

[kehatch]

While I agree both should be getting work, this is not like when jmac was up, now we have a true battle for starter going. We dont see the practices, or the coaching. Berra in nearly all his starts has been playing like a starter. Hes giving the team a chance to win, in some cases stealing points. Ramo has done this too, but there is obviously something in berra that is giving the coaches confidence that hes the guy to start. Ramo now needs to sparkle in his starts to start wrestling bet time from Berra.

Only the elite goalies get 90 percent of the starts. I am not suggesting they should split starts. But they are over playing Berra and leaving Ramon on the bench for too long. Both goalies are being put into a position to fail.

[Lucid_Flame91]

If anyone wants to watch Gillies play tomorrow night its being broadcasted.

 

 

No. 3 Men's Hockey Hosts No. 20 New Hampshire For Weekend Series

Both teams have won five games in a row heading into Friday night's showdown.

 

 

FOR STARTERS                                               
Providence returns home for a two-game series against New Hampshire this weekend. The teams will meet for the first time since the Friars knocked UNH out of the 2013 Hockey East playoffs with a two games to one quarterfinal series win at Schneider Arena.

FOLLOW THE FRIARS
• Television: Friday - CoxSports on OSN | Saturday - None
• Live Streaming: Friday - CoxSports Online Streaming | Saturday - Friars.com/CBS All-Access
• Live Audio: Friday - Friars.com (Charlie Bergeron) | Saturday - Friars.com (Mike Logan)
• Live Stats: Hockeyeastonline.com
• Twitter Updates: @FriarsHockey 

TALKING POINTS                                             
• Both Providence and New Hampshire carry five-game winning streaks into Friday night's game. 
• The Friars have started a season with just one loss in their first 11 games for the first time since going 9-1-1 to start the 1990-91 season.
• For the first time, dating back to the inaugural season in 1984-85, Providence has opened Hockey East play by winning five of its first six league games. 
• With no remaining undefeated teams in college hockey, Providence is one of five teams with just one loss, joining Quinnipiac (11-1-1), Minnesota (8-1-1), St. Cloud State (8-1-1) and Yale (4-1-2).  
• Junior forward Ross Mauermann ranks tied for third in the nation with 18 points (10-8-18), while his 10 goals are tied for second in the nation. 
• Mauermann has six multi-point games this season and has at least one point in nine of Providence's 11 games.
• Sophomore goaltender Jon Gillies has an 8-1-1 record this season to go with a 1.59 goals against average (third in the nation) and a  .949 save percentage (second in the nation). 
• Gillies has allowed two or fewer goals 31 times in 45 career starts and his career goals against average is 1.97. 
• Last season, the Friars posted a 4-1-1 record against UNH, led by Nick Saracino's seven goals and three assists. 
• The Friar defense ranks third in the country as it is only giving up an average of 1.82 goals per game.
• At 3.82 goals per game, the Friar offense also ranks tied for third in the nation.

[phoenix66]

Only the elite goalies get 90 percent of the starts. I am not suggesting they should split starts. But they are over playing Berra and leaving Ramon on the bench for too long. Both goalies are being put into a position to fail.

Im definitely in agreement that the ratio is too high.id like to see ramo at least every 4th game or so. I do admit to being a little baffled by hartleys aversion to him. He played jmac almost to that ratio as well, then when ramo did his run, up came reto. DunNo..

[travel_dude]

While I agree both should be getting work, this is not like when jmac was up, now we have a true battle for starter going. We dont see the practices, or the coaching. Berra in nearly all his starts has been playing like a starter. Hes giving the team a chance to win, in some cases stealing points. Ramo has done this too, but there is obviously something in berra that is giving the coaches confidence that hes the guy to start. Ramo now needs to sparkle in his starts to start wrestling bet time from Berra.

Hartley has said numerous time that he sees things in Berra, and has since his days in the Swiss league.

He also said he will give Berra every opportunity to show he is a starter. That just doesn't sit right, as it ignores a goalie that was used sparingly so far; how do you even know Ramo's value? Hartley started JoeyMac in bunches and played Ramo more like his backup.