Goaltending

[tmac70]

Well at least Feaster has no issue of pulling bold moves. If he is waived any odds he ends up in Edm.

Looks like Mac on waivers and Berra on the way up.according to Elliot Friedman

https://twitter.com/friedgehnic/status/396631253929431040

[lordxan]

Looks like Mac on waivers and Berra on the way up.according to Elliot Friedman

https://twitter.com/friedgehnic/status/396631253929431040

Honestly, it's about time.  He may be able to push Ramo to get more consistency to his game, or take the starter job.  There is however, the possibility both Berra and Ramo fail, if they do, at least the team will know sooner, rather than later, where we really stand in the intern goalie area and address it.

 

Why is this important?  Well,we do have some really good prospects in goal but:

 

1.  They are a few years away

2.  they are prospects,  nothing saying they will pan out

 

The other reason it's important, is to avoid doing an Edm and just throwing a bunch of skilled kids out on the ice.  We need to give our kids a chance very night to win, our goalies are currently failing here.  Now, not saying we need a super star, but we do need a decent goalie capable of keeping the SV% above .900 on a regular basis.  This would allow for a better assessment of how the team is developing by having a reliable and consistent goalie, then you can say ok D needs work or our offence is weak or what ever.  We can't do that right now because our goalies are letting soft goals which are changing the out come of the game vs the actual tem play on the ice.

 

I just hope, if Berra fails, they are willing to entertain a trade or FA to get a decent intern goalie while we wait for our prospects to develop. 

[jjgallow]

One has to think that the defensemen on the Flames' "list" were picked prior to where we wanted to pick them.  I would not have given up Mony or Poirier for the defense that were still available at those picks.  Klimchuk is a great pick and may just be the steal of the draft.

I was never that big on Nurse, and none of the guys I was big on made it even as far as the Poirier pick.

 

I'm not losing sleep over this as there are several guys in the pipeline that may (could possibly) end up as a #1/2.  As you said, we have some vets that could fetch some pieces we could use.  This year's cap constricts some of the contenders from making moves to help their teams, so they might have to give up something good to make room for the Iggys and Jagrs at TDL time.  There may be players available this summer that we can easily afford that match our long term need.  Either through trade or FA.

 

I'll buy that.   But, it's too bad they gave up their 2nd pick....and that brings us back on topic:  Ramo.

[CastleMania]

I feel bad for Mac. Actually, I feel bad for a lot of players on this team. Mac is a quality backup, but this team is constantly placing players in positions where they are bound to fail.

[jjgallow]

Looks like Mac on waivers and Berra on the way up.according to Elliot Friedman

https://twitter.com/friedgehnic/status/396631253929431040

 

Happy Days!!!

 

Would be nice to get confirmation.   As long as Ortio is starting in the AHL, I think we're on the right track.  If he gets regular starts, I believe he could be one of the AHL's top goaltenders by year's end.

 

Berra may be the least-deserved callup of the year.  But JMac has been bad.  I still think JMac is more likely to bring us wins than Ramo or Berra over the course of the season, but hey, that just brings us closer to getting Reinhart...

 

I do have a mild concern of:   The rumour not being true, or JMac not being claimed...

[jjgallow]

I feel bad for Mac. Actually, I feel bad for a lot of players on this team. Mac is a quality backup, but this team is constantly placing players in positions where they are bound to fail.

 

I do too.  As long as he gets claimed, though, I think it may work out better for him.

 

And his final Flames numbers for this year:

2013-14 Calgary Flames NHL 7 0 2 417 22 0 0 3.17 3 3 1 170 0.885    

 

He currently has the best GAA, and winning percentage, with the Flames.  And his save percentage is basically tied with Ramo.

 

The Flames had to let someone go.  I'm not sure they made the right choice, but I do understand it.

 

I fully expect JMac's winning percentage, GAA, and Save Percentage to be the best of all Flame's goaltenders by year's end.

[DirtyDeeds]

The

 

Honestly, it's about time.  He may be able to push Ramo to get more consistency to his game, or take the starter job.  There is however, the possibility both Berra and Ramo fail, if they do, at least the team will know sooner, rather than later, where we really stand in the intern goalie area and address it.

 

Why is this important?  Well,we do have some really good prospects in goal but:

 

1.  They are a few years away

2.  they are prospects,  nothing saying they will pan out

 

The other reason it's important, is to avoid doing an Edm and just throwing a bunch of skilled kids out on the ice.  We need to give our kids a chance very night to win, our goalies are currently failing here.  Now, not saying we need a super star, but we do need a decent goalie capable of keeping the SV% above .900 on a regular basis.  This would allow for a better assessment of how the team is developing by having a reliable and consistent goalie, then you can say ok D needs work or our offence is weak or what ever.  We can't do that right now because our goalies are letting soft goals which are changing the out come of the game vs the actual tem play on the ice.

 

I just hope, if Berra fails, they are willing to entertain a trade or FA to get a decent intern goalie while we wait for our prospects to develop. 

All you need to know is how difficult it has been for the Oilers to get some form of starting goaltending. They were said to be among the teams making offers for both Bernier and Schneider. They have more assets and don't need the draft picks as much as we need ours.

 

I would think that us finding or trading for a decent starter is remote at best. Anyone with depth at this position is hanging on for dear lie to all of them or asking way to much in exchange atm.

[cross16]

Confirmed by Hartley. Mac on waivers and Berra on his way up. Could start tomorrow.

https://twitter.com/cruickshankch/status/396677136146124800

[kehatch]

I feel bad for Mac. Actually, I feel bad for a lot of players on this team. Mac is a quality backup, but this team is constantly placing players in positions where they are bound to fail.

 

I feel bad for a player like Backlund.  He has been given 7-minutes a night with one of the harshest d-zone starts in the league and yet he is scratched because he isn't scoring.  I feel bad for Baertschi because he is having a huge impact on his line and not getting credit for it. 

 

I don't feel bad for MacDonald.  The Flames basically said the only reason he made the team out of camp was his waiver eligibility.  He was given a lion's share of the starts without really earning them during the Flames easiest stretch of the season.  The Flames managed to win some games, but not due to goal tending.  He is a career 0.900 goalie and has been about the same this season.  

 

I think he was given opportunity but he lacked the talent to capitalize on it.  It is unlikely any other team would have signed him this summer.  If they did it is unlikely he would have had a better opportunity with another team. If he is an NHL goalie he will get claimed.  If he isn't he will get close to a million bucks to play backup in Abby.  

[tmac70]

Mac being waived, does as JJ stated, clears room for proper development of the 4 tenders we have, but does he really make us any better?

 

I agree with the move, it still doesn't solve the goaltending issues or the poor defensive coverage. This really is nothing more than a lateral movement and currently doesn't solve or issues in net.  

 

Castle, great point about individuals failing at certain positions. Positive side players have been given the opportunity at top minutes and have exceeded expectations as well

[cross16]

I feel bad for a player like Backlund.  He has been given 7-minutes a night with one of the harshest d-zone starts in the league and yet he is scratched because he isn't scoring.  I feel bad for Baertschi because he is having a huge impact on his line and not getting credit for it. 

 

I don't feel bad for MacDonald.  The Flames basically said the only reason he made the team out of camp was his waiver eligibility.  He was given a lion's share of the starts without really earning them during the Flames easiest stretch of the season.  The Flames managed to win some games, but not due to goal tending.  He is a career 0.900 goalie and has been about the same this season.  

 

I think he was given opportunity but he lacked the talent to capitalize on it.  It is unlikely any other team would have signed him this summer.  If they did it is unlikely he would have had a better opportunity with another team. If he is an NHL goalie he will get claimed.  If he isn't he will get close to a million bucks to play backup in Abby.  

Agreed. I agree that there are more than a few guys who are not being put in positions to succeed but Mac is not one of then. He's done his best but he just isn't that good a goalie. Yes I know there are a select few examples that are going to counter act his point, but generally when you are a 30 plus journeymen player there are reasons for it and that is true in macs case. He played as well as you would expect IMO.

[kehatch]

All you need to know is how difficult it has been for the Oilers to get some form of starting goaltending. They were said to be among the teams making offers for both Bernier and Schneider. They have more assets and don't need the draft picks as much as we need ours.

 

I would think that us finding or trading for a decent starter is remote at best. Anyone with depth at this position is hanging on for dear lie to all of them or asking way to much in exchange atm.

 

This is why I didn't agree with posters who suggested we start looking at goalies after the rebuild is well underway.  Schneider was out of our price range.  But if LA was willing to trade Bernier in the division we should have been on that.  I like GIlles as a prospect, but that is a small basket to be putting all of our goalie eggs into.  

 

The problem right now though is we don't have a solution.  I would rather roll the dice on Berra/Ramo than on a guy like Bryzgalov or DiPietro.  Same with Mason when he was available.  There isn't any reason to spend big assets to get a 33 year old pending UFA like Miller.  Hiller is similar to Miller and he isn't available.  I was a fan of going after Reimer previously but he isn't available now.  Etc.

 

In other words there aren't any targets for the Flames to go after that fit our needs.  Which is why we are rolling the dice on Ramo/Berra.  Unfortunately so far we are rolling craps.  

 

Maybe a kid becomes available that is NHL ready and better than what we have.  But so far we (and like you say the Oiler's) are out of luck.  

[cross16]

I think people are panicking a bit too much with goaltending. Not saying the decision to role the dice with Ramo/Berra/Mac was the right one I just think people are thinking two or three steps ahead that we don t have a goaltender or a set future there and while it's true it's also year one of a rebuild you aren't t suppose to have everything set. Now if the flames plan on giving this plan more than just this season i would agree its time to worry but for not you try this and if it doesn't work there are stop gap options potentially available in fa with Brian Elliot, hiller, vokoun, emery, jiggy etc not to mention you have more than a few teams that are going to need to make some decisions related to goalies overt he next season or two. Need to remember this is a process it's not a quick project.

[phoenix66]

It's not one stinker. He lets in a one or two softies every game (except for one game where he was excellent throughout). That's why he's not an NHL goalie. Lots of goalies can make some big saves and look good, the guys that don't allow soft goals are the ones that start games. Ramo is not a starter. Between preseason and his 6 starts that should be quite obvious. I'm ok giving him a couple more games to prove he can be solid for a full 60 minutes, but each time we do, we're jeopardizing any playoff shot.

 

So far, it is on Ramo and JMac. We're scoring plenty of goals to be a top half team in the NHL. Plenty. We've got 4 or 5 points due to goaltending this year. That's the difference between where we are at and a divisional playoff spot. It is goaltending. Yes, our defense could be better too and that could make up for some of the shortfall.

 

But you have ZERO hope of a playoff spot with a goalie posting a 0.888 Sv%. That's not good enough. It really isn't.

 

The guys on Fan960 were discussing that this morning on the way to work and they were on the same page as me really there, so it's not just me seeing that he's not a very good goalie.

I remember this one goalie the flames had once. It was always a major accomplishment when he got a shutout because it was a virtual guarantee he was going to let in at least one garbage goal per game. It became common to make bets as to what it was going to be..five hole? On his back? Etc. But it was commonly known it was going to happen. His name was Mike Vernon

I fully agree..if and when we hoist the cup again it likely wont be berra or Ramo on the ice. But to date Ramo has cost us one game..just one..Dallas. and at the same time the entire team can hang their heads too.

Ive said it 100 times, consistent game stealing goaltenders are rare..we've had one in our history. If a goaltender gives his team a cgance to win..hes doing his job. Every goalie shows different in different systems..kipper was a minor leaguer in san jose.. so you cant say whether Bernier would have been a good pick up.

If youre basing the tending on how many games are getting stolen..youre goung to hate the goaltending for a long long time.

With the number of odd man rushes, multiple shots, and obscene quality scoring chances we give up, to have a save% close to .900 I think is borderline stellar

[phoenix66]

I wonder how much it would take to get John Gibson out of Anaheim? They have a glut of good goalies, they basically have 4 goalies that are better than anything Calgary currently has.

I usually would like to see goalies groomed quite a while in the AHL, but Gibson is a superstar and will be ready sooner rather than later. It would be take a significant package to get him but this kid is the real deal and I think he is the type of goalie you build around. It is highly doubtful that Anaheim is willing to part with him, but hey it's worth a shot.

LA has a goalie that might be ready to take the next step in Martin Jones, so maybe Ben Scrivens could be had. Scrivens isn't going to be a great starter but he could be a good bridge or a stop gap.

We already have a Gibson, his name is Gillies. Gibson is maybe one year closer, but at thw end of the day I believe Gillies will be the better goaltender

[kehatch]

I think people are panicking a bit too much with goaltending. Not saying the decision to role the dice with Ramo/Berra/Mac was the right one I just think people are thinking two or three steps ahead that we don t have a goaltender or a set future there and while it's true it's also year one of a rebuild you aren't t suppose to have everything set. Now if the flames plan on giving this plan more than just this season i would agree its time to worry but for not you try this and if it doesn't work there are stop gap options potentially available in fa with Brian Elliot, hiller, vokoun, emery, jiggy etc not to mention you have more than a few teams that are going to need to make some decisions related to goalies overt he next season or two. Need to remember this is a process it's not a quick project.

 

I agree with this.  The Flames depth chart:

 

C: Stajan, Monahan, Colborne, Backlund

W: Glencross, Cammalleri, Hudler, Stempniak, Baertschi, Jones, Galiardi, Bouma, Jackman, McGrattan

D: Giordano, Wideman, Brodie, Russell, Butler, O'Brien, Smith

G: Ramo, Berra, MacDonald

 

Even with the way they are playing we get a "C-" at centre.  Maybe a "B" at wing.  Defense is a "C-" when healthy but is probably a "D" with Gio out.  

 

We are a solid "D" at Goalie.  Maybe a "F".  But if you go out and spend assets to bring on someone like Miller right now you are still short up the middle and on defense.  At best you improve from a bottom 7 team to a bottom 14 team.  And you are out the assets you spent to bring on a band-aid at goal.  

 

Some people think we could be a couple of games above .0500 if we had a decent goalie.  And they might be right.  But I don't think we sustain that over 82 games with the roster we have.  

 

That all said I still don't like where we stand moving into the future.  Very few of those guys you mention are more than temporary solutions.  I do believe the Flames still need to be looking for a long term solution.  Or at the least padding our G prospects to improve our chances in the future.  But I also recognize there aren't any obvious targets out there.  So rolling the dice on long shots might be our only real chance.  

... to date Ramo has cost us one game..just one..Dallas. 

 

I agree with most of what you are saying.  But he lost us the Toronto game as well. 

[cross16]

I agree with this.  The Flames depth chart:

 

Some people think we could be a couple of games above .0500 if we had a decent goalie.  And they might be right.  But I don't think we sustain that over 82 games with the roster we have.  

 

That all said I still don't like where we stand moving into the future.  Very few of those guys you mention are more than temporary solutions.  I do believe the Flames still need to be looking for a long term solution.  Or at the least padding our G prospects to improve our chances in the future.  But I also recognize there aren't any obvious targets out there.  So rolling the dice on long shots might be our only real chance.  

 

. 

I agree as well sure the flames would be in a playoff spot right now with better goaltending but over 82 games has anybody really seen enough t say that with better goaltending they'd have a shot? I sure haven't.

My add on to that though Kehatch is IMO the goalie market is ever changing and IMO has the most options available year after year because some come out of nowhere and there are joust so few spots. Guys like victor fasth, niemi, halak, hiller, holtby, bobrovsky, rinne are all guys that pretty much came out of nowhere and they end up saturating the goalie market and providing a lot of options if you are looking for a goalie. So as long as the flames build a solid team on the ice I think finding a starter to hold the fort down is not as difficult as some think. Yes it's hard to get the elite starters but IMO you don't need that to win in the NHL right now.

[lordxan]

I remember this one goalie the flames had once. It was always a major accomplishment when he got a shutout because it was a virtual guarantee he was going to let in at least one garbage goal per game. It became common to make bets as to what it was going to be..five hole? On his back? Etc. But it was commonly known it was going to happen. His name was Mike Vernon

I fully agree..if and when we hoist the cup again it likely wont be berra or Ramo on the ice. But to date Ramo has cost us one game..just one..Dallas. and at the same time the entire team can hang their heads too.

Ive said it 100 times, consistent game stealing goaltenders are rare..we've had one in our history. If a goaltender gives his team a cgance to win..hes doing his job. Every goalie shows different in different systems..kipper was a minor leaguer in san jose.. so you cant say whether Bernier would have been a good pick up.

If youre basing the tending on how many games are getting stolen..youre goung to hate the goaltending for a long long time.

With the number of odd man rushes, multiple shots, and obscene quality scoring chances we give up, to have a save% close to .900 I think is borderline stellar

K over all I see your point but:

 

Vernon, life time SV% was .890 not much to write home about and just a testament to how strong that team really was in 1989.  Never really was a huge fan of Vernon anyway he was just luck to ride a great team that year.

 

 

As for a SV% close to .900 being stellar, no not in today's NHL, it's probably the minimal bench mark to be considered a starter these days.  Take into account the top 30 goalies are all above .900, so by that and considering there are 30 team in the NHL, each team should be looking at the .900 mark for their starting goalie.  This just amplifies our current goalie situation both being WELL below .900, not good.

 

Now, to say we need another Kipper, well that is just not reasonable, but Mgt should be looking at this issue harder and looking to give the guys a chance to win, this is not happening when the goalies are letting in softies on a regular basis, no chance to win.  Your starter at a minimal needs to stop the easy ones regularly.  Not saying playoff here, just allow our young guys to play with some confidence is all,

The

 

All you need to know is how difficult it has been for the Oilers to get some form of starting goaltending. They were said to be among the teams making offers for both Bernier and Schneider. They have more assets and don't need the draft picks as much as we need ours.

 

I would think that us finding or trading for a decent starter is remote at best. Anyone with depth at this position is hanging on for dear lie to all of them or asking way to much in exchange atm.

Gotta disagree, Bernier for example went for a 4th, think we could have afforded that.  Added, there were many decent (by decent I mean better than J Mac) established Goalies in FA and many went cheap this year.  

[phoenix66]

Looks like Mac on waivers and Berra on the way up.according to Elliot Friedman https://twitter.com/friedgehnic/status/396631253929431040

Im actually a little shocked by this..but only to the degree that they didnt trade, or maybe they tried. I will not be shocked if he gets picked up, I just hope its not the oilers. If he does clear, hope he doesn't get the majority of the starts ahead of Ortio.

As far as the flames roster move is concerned, it can only be a good thing. Now they can battle head to head for #1, both can feel legitimately threatened for their job..best man wins. Goalies need to be pushed.

[JTech780]

We already have a Gibson, his name is Gillies. Gibson is maybe one year closer, but at thw end of the day I believe Gillies will be the better goaltender

 

I have to disagree. I have high hopes for Gillies but at this point in time Gibson is the best goaltending prospect out there right now. 

[JTech780]

I think putting Joey Mac on waivers was the best move for this team. 

 

I kind of doubt that he will be claimed, I think he is a 3rd string goalie on most teams in the NHL. 

 

He isn't the answer nor is a stop gap.

 

Reto Berra might be a longshot to be a starter but hey lets give him a shot and see what he can do, he can't be much worse than the goaltending we have received so far. 

 

Guys like Ortio, Brossoit and Gillies are all 2-3 years away from making the jump, so we are kind of left with pinning our hopes on Ramo and Berra. Hopefully one of them can develop into a decent stop gap till one of our other prospects is ready.

[Wreckening]

This is playing out the way I thought it would, though its a lot sooner than I expected.  Good move by the Flames.  Let's see what we have right now with Ramo and Berra.  MacDonald does not figure into the Flames long range plan so let him ride out the rest of his contract in the A or with another team, either way this is the right move for Flames brass to take.

[Zirakzigil]

Not surprised by this. I was sure we were going to see a Ramo/Berra tandem by Christmas, just happened a little sooner.

[Zoller]

If Joey isn't claimed he will get the majority of the starts down in Abbotsford.

[jjgallow]

Reto Berra might be a longshot to be a starter but hey lets give him a shot and see what he can do, he can't be much worse than the goaltending we have received so far. 

 

oh yes he could.  He's already done worse...in the AHL.  Pulled right out of two games.  He's not getting the callup based on his performance, that's for sure.