Holy Strawberry: Weber Signs Offer Sheet With Philly

[returnofthejets]

I was under the assumption that Philly and Nash can still talk about players over picks for compensation? I was not aware once an offer sheet is submitted its 4 first rounders and thats it?

I understand that Webs wanted to sign a mega deal before the CBA pretty much shuts down contract lengths to no longer than 6-7 years most likely. But you HAVE to know your taking the risks of still staying in Nashville unless talks behind closed doors with Weber/Nashville/Philly have more than we know behind it.

And i did not know once you sign an offer sheet if your current club matches you are technically already signed with them.. So then i do believe Weber will stay a pred for a few years to come now.

Here is the RFA offer sheet compensation table-

•$1,110,249 or below - No Compensation

•Over $1,110,249 to $1,682,194 - 3rd round pick

•Over $1,682,194 to $3,364,391 - 2nd round pick

•Over $3,364,391 to $5,046,585 - 1st round pick, 3rd

•Over $5,046,585 to $6,728,781 - 1st round pick, 2nd, 3rd

•Over $6,728,781 To $8,410,976 - Two 1st Round Picks, 2nd, 3rd

•Over $8,410,976 - Four 1st Round Picks

Here's a good link to further explain. 2012-13 RFA Compensation Table And Offer Sheets

Have to highlight this portion of the article.

So, if you knew a team run by a dummy like Kevin Lowe and he wants to offer you four first round picks for a player then you'd probably take it.

I agree that Weber signs this offer sheet knowing there is a chance that it gets matched. But he and his agent probably had a good idea from previous contract talks with Poile what the Preds could do. I think when they talk with Philly they are the ones that bring up the massive up front bonus payments knowing that may be out of what Poile can do. It's reported that Weber and his agent were talking with the Flyers, Wings, Sharks, Rangers, and Canucks. So seems Weber was looking at various teams, perhaps the Flyers were the ones that stepped up with the massive up front bonus', thus taking less risk of being matched.

[Flyerfan52]

Flyerfan52: are you going to get a Weber jersey?

Dang right. We need to dump Lilja to free up that #6 (it looked good in that pic 1 of our guys photo-shopped).

First, I liked the Flyers going back to the Broad street Bullies days, and I started to re-adopt them last season as a second team... I followed them more closely as the season went on, and as FF52 could tell you, I was cheering them on during the playoff run...

The reverse of me. I go Flyers 1A & Flames 1B.

Carty was Flames 1A, Flyers 1B.

I was under the assumption that Philly and Nash can still talk about players over picks for compensation? I was not aware once an offer sheet is submitted its 4 first rounders and thats it?

Those picks can be traded back to Philly for players.

[403Loyalty]

Those picks can be traded back to Philly for players.

So they can agree to have players over picks but the technicality of it is they are trading a 1st for a player. But then that would have to be something philly agrees to and not what Nashville can barter to much with.

But as much as this is big money and handcuffs a team, I dont think Ownership is running this team paycheck to paycheck they might not want to spend that kind of money up front in the first 2-4-6 years but to lose Suter and now your captain and most dynamic and impact player on your roster is trying to run. In my mind you NEED to match the offer..

[Carty]

In my mind you NEED to match the offer..

While in principle, I agree... After giving it more thought... I have to wonder if that is even possible with the heavy front loading of the contract and given Nashvilles known budget...

As I said above, I am not a fan of offer sheets and also stated a couple of the reasons why... But at the same time, right or wrong it is within the current set of rules...

Bottom line... I see Poile stretching this out to make an attempt to save face, but in the end, I think Weber will be wearing O & B this season...

[Zirakzigil]

I don't think Nashville will, or even needs to, match the offer.

When I think of David Poile, I see someone who sticks to his guns. He's not one to be taken hostage by an offer sheet (at least I don't think). Secondly, Nashville has a Detroit-like ability to draft and develop players. They should take the picks and run in the other direction.

Cause that worked out for him when he didnt match the Scott Stevens offer sheet. He will match, doesnt have a choice and has the cap and money to do it.

[Flyerfan52]

Cause that worked out for him when he didnt match the Scott Stevens offer sheet. He will match, doesnt have a choice and has the cap and money to do it.

The cap yes. $26 million due within 365 calender days of Weber signing the OS I doubt. (Ownership would have to sign off on it & that exceeds their revenue for 1 full season.)

Poile runs a budget team & only gets the green light to spend if a good playoff run (additional gate) is in sight. With Rinne, Suter & Weber all in the fold for 7-7.5 per on 5 year term they could be a contender (or better) for those 5 years. Suter leaving threw a spanner in the works & led to Weber accepting an offer sheet.

If Nashville ownership overreacts & fires Poile that team is screwed. He's 1 of the best GMs in the game (especially for a budget team).

[403Loyalty]

While in principle, I agree... After giving it more thought... I have to wonder if that is even possible with the heavy front loading of the contract and given Nashvilles known budget...

As I said above, I am not a fan of offer sheets and also stated a couple of the reasons why... But at the same time, right or wrong it is within the current set of rules...

Bottom line... I see Poile stretching this out to make an attempt to save face, but in the end, I think Weber will be wearing O & B this season...

Ya but how bad does that look (or good due to maybe the CBA talks) that you go sorry we tried but we cant financial beat philly ( to your fans )

The cap yes. $26 million due within 365 calender days of Weber signing the OS I doubt. (Ownership would have to sign off on it & that exceeds their revenue for 1 full season.)

Poile runs a budget team & only gets the green light to spend if a good playoff run (additional gate) is in sight. With Rinne, Suter & Weber all in the fold for 7-7.5 per on 5 year term they could be a contender (or better) for those 5 years. Suter leaving threw a spanner in the works & led to Weber accepting an offer sheet.

If Nashville ownership overreacts & fires Poile that team is screwed. He's 1 of the best GMs in the game (especially for a budget team).

but losing Suter is not the end of the world, sure it hurts but its not a rebuild and having rinne and weber is still 2 solid peices. they shouldnt throw in the towel yet and do whatever it takes to keep weber or might as well pack it in. but then as a fan base would they support that? then if the team doesnt have a good fan support they start to look like a troubled franchise... again THEY HAVE TO match the offer.

[C_worthy]

Cause that worked out for him when he didnt match the Scott Stevens offer sheet. He will match, doesnt have a choice and has the cap and money to do it.

Poile got burned on the Stevens situation, yes. But this isn't about Poile, and it isn't his decision - nor is it a cap decidion.

It amazes me how quickly fans are willing to spend owners' money. $27m in the next 11 and a half months. Nashille's entire gate for the season is about exactly the same amount. Plus, there could be a delayed start to the season for 20 games or so, cutting revenues by maybe 20%.

Nashville is screwed - they HAVE to match, but they probably can't, If they don't, Poile's time there could be done.

Yikes.

[Carty]

What if this offer sheet was a product of a collusion between Poile and Holmgren...

Weber is looking for a big contract, and Nashville has limited funds...

Trading away Weber especially just after Suter walked could easily be frowned upon by the fan base...

This gives Poile the perfect out... All he has to do at this point is state the truth... He could come out and say that matching the offer would cripple the team so they would not be able to have enough balance on the rest of the roster...

[Zirakzigil]

You can argue that his salary for next year takes their entire gate admission, but they lose a lot more in the long run. No Weber means no playoffs, less season ticket holders, less jerseys sold, less interest in the team, etc. The Preds do not have the nature market to survive losing their 2 star players in one off season.

[Flyerfan52]

You can argue that his salary for next year takes their entire gate admission, but they lose a lot more in the long run. No Weber means no playoffs, less season ticket holders, less jerseys sold, less interest in the team, etc. The Preds do not have the nature market to survive losing their 2 star players in one off season.

It depends what they do with the compensation received for Weber. Flipping some combination of their 8 first rounders in the next 4 years could land them a shiny new star (like a forward that scores since few appreciate defense anymore). Even those that invested in a Weber or Suter jersey don't have that.

BTW, merchandise sales don't go directly to the team unless purchased in 1 of their stores. If someone in Calgary buys an NHL licensed Crosby/Giroux/Kane jersey/bobblehead/picture it's NHL money that is shared among all 30 teams.

[C_worthy]

You can argue that his salary for next year takes their entire gate admission, but they lose a lot more in the long run. No Weber means no playoffs, less season ticket holders, less jerseys sold, less interest in the team, etc. The Preds do not have the nature market to survive losing their 2 star players in one off season.

$26m is a lot of home playoff dates (3 runs to the finals). They can do an entire rebuild before that's likely to happen.

You are not giving proper consideration to the fact that someone has to give him that money out of their own pocket - even if the entire season is cancelled.

I think your Pens bias is showing

[Zirakzigil]

It depends what they do with the compensation received for Weber. Flipping some combination of their 8 first rounders in the next 4 years could land them a shiny new star (like a forward that scores since few appreciate defense anymore). Even those that invested in a Weber or Suter jersey don't have that.

BTW, merchandise sales don't go directly to the team unless purchased in 1 of their stores. If someone in Calgary buys an NHL licensed Crosby/Giroux/Kane jersey/bobblehead/picture it's NHL money that is shared among all 30 teams.

Those draft picks could end up being star players, or they could bust. Weber is one of the best, if not the best defenseman in the league. By the time those 8 first rounders pan out out it will be 5-6 plus years, highly doubt the fanbase will stay together that long.

$26m is a lot of home playoff dates (3 runs to the finals). They can do an entire rebuild before that's likely to happen.

You are not giving proper consideration to the fact that someone has to give him that money out of their own pocket - even if the entire season is cancelled.

I think your Pens bias is showing

I fully understand that the ownership has to pay him that money. But they will lose more without him. Having lost both their star defensemen in 1 offseason will kill the team. Its easy to say they can just rebuild with draft picks, but they are not in a hockey market and the team will struggle financially without a winning team. its pretty simple, no Weber equals no playoffs which means the fan support is going to go down and go down fast.

[Flyerfan52]

Those draft picks could end up being star players, or they could bust. Weber is one of the best, if not the best defenseman in the league. By the time those 8 first rounders pan out out it will be 5-6 plus years, highly doubt the fanbase will stay together that long.

It seems you ignored what packaging a few of those draft picks could bring in trade.

You don't need to draft 8 stars. Trade a few picks for roster players & go for home runs on the remainder.

I fully understand that the ownership has to pay him that money. But they will lose more without him. Having lost both their star defensemen in 1 offseason will kill the team. Its easy to say they can just rebuild with draft picks, but they are not in a hockey market and the team will struggle financially without a winning team. its pretty simple, no Weber equals no playoffs which means the fan support is going to go down and go down fast.

That's a low opinion of the Nashville fans, management & coaching.

The fans have stuck with the team after losing other stars. They aren't bandwagon.

Poile is a smart GM in both drafting & trades. Trotz can get the most out of any roster.

Nashville is a team built for survival from management to ice level.

[Carty]

It seems you ignored what packaging a few of those draft picks could bring in trade.

You don't need to draft 8 stars. Trade a few picks for roster players & go for home runs on the remainder.

That's a low opinion of the Nashville fans, management & coaching.

The fans have stuck with the team after losing other stars. They aren't bandwagon.

Poile is a smart GM in both drafting & trades. Trotz can get the most out of any roster.

Nashville is a team built for survival from management to ice level.

Agreed... That said... I think Weber ends up a member of the Flyers... A trade or two will go the other way to make the optics look better...

The Flyers will give up a good player or two to gain picks back and the following consequent of cap space from Nashville...

[Flyerfan52]

Agreed... That said... I think Weber ends up a member of the Flyers... A trade or two will go the other way to make the optics look better...

The Flyers will give up a good player or two to gain picks back and the following consequent of cap space from Nashville...

& it's not only the Flyers they can trade with.

A couple of 1sts & Colin Wilson might look like a nice return in Anaheim.

Subban is still open to an OS.

If Poile decides to just add UFAs this year there are lots of potential UFAs & OS targets with the cost certainty after the new CBA.

If ownership trusts in Poile & Trotz they can be a contender without ditching in no time.

If they don't match Poile has a lot of currency. Young roster talent, more in the pipeline & loads of high picks leave leeway for some fast talent replacement.

[C_worthy]

I fully understand that the ownership has to pay him that money. But they will lose more without him. Having lost both their star defensemen in 1 offseason will kill the team. Its easy to say they can just rebuild with draft picks, but they are not in a hockey market and the team will struggle financially without a winning team. its pretty simple, no Weber equals no playoffs which means the fan support is going to go down and go down fast.

Problem is - having lost Suter for nothing, there is a very real chance they miss the playoffs even if they retain Weber.

And that would be a very painful proposition for the owners, financially.

[DL44]

I can't wrap my mind around the idea that Nashville will NOT match the deal.

people are making a big deal about how front loaded the contract is and talking how large his salary is... but it's really no big deal for Nashville to swallow at the end of the day.

Presently they sit LAST in the league in committed salary with around $41 mil. Even less in real salary since a handful of their top salaries are making less actual money than their cap hits. (Legwand, Fischer, Gaustad)

That and the Preds have just under $6mil committed on 5 D.

With Weber, their actual salary would be just around $53 mil... with 19 players signed, excluding whoever they may bring up.. i.e. Blum..

Sure his salary with the bonuses is huge... but cap-wise, they're still laughing as one of the lowest but highly efficient/effective budget teams...

In the grand scheme of things - cap-wise, - Suter gone... WITH a greater level of salary structure, and cost cutting coming with the new CBA, this appears to be an easy decision.

Any logic i've read for Nashville to not match appears to be extremely short-sighted wishful thinking to me.

Unless there are significant backdoor handshake deals going on as to what they will be doing with the 4 draft picks they receive, there is nothing about not matching that seems justified considering the high the franchise is coming off of the last couple seasons.

They just have to work the budget around Weber's salary... which with their present structure is a breeze.

and imagine if there is a rollback... Nashville will be laughing about having one of the league's top D locked up for life at less than $7.8 mil/yr.

[mrjohnnycanuck]

I can't wrap my mind around the idea that Nashville will NOT match the deal.

people are making a big deal about how front loaded the contract is and talking how large his salary is... but it's really no big deal for Nashville to swallow at the end of the day.

Presently they sit LAST in the league in committed salary with around $41 mil. Even less in real salary since a handful of their top salaries are making less actual money than their cap hits. (Legwand, Fischer, Gaustad)

That and the Preds have just under $6mil committed on 5 D.

With Weber, their actual salary would be just around $53 mil... with 19 players signed, excluding whoever they may bring up.. i.e. Blum..

Sure his salary with the bonuses is huge... but cap-wise, they're still laughing as one of the lowest but highly efficient/effective budget teams...

In the grand scheme of things - cap-wise, - Suter gone... WITH a greater level of salary structure, and cost cutting coming with the new CBA, this appears to be an easy decision.

Any logic i've read for Nashville to not match appears to be extremely short-sighted wishful thinking to me.

Unless there are significant backdoor handshake deals going on as to what they will be doing with the 4 draft picks they receive, there is nothing about not matching that seems justified considering the high the franchise is coming off of the last couple seasons.

They just have to work the budget around Weber's salary... which with their present structure is a breeze.

and imagine if there is a rollback... Nashville will be laughing about having one of the league's top D locked up for life at less than $7.8 mil/yr.

I think it's clear that Weber does not want to play in Nashville anymore. If they do match then Weber has to play in Nashville for 1 year before he can be traded and thats going to be a media gong show.

Will Weber only agree to a few teams to be traded to after the year?

How many NHL teams will be willing to take on that contract with it's term of 14 years? Would Philly still be interested? Would other NHL teams offer fair market value for Weber knowing that he wants out and carries a contract like that?

Nashville is in a tough spot and I don't think it's all about the money.

Nashville is a good franchise at developing D men so I would let him walk and take thoes four 1st round picks and use them on future trades.

It sucks for the fans and the franchise as they will take a step back but you just can't let one player handcuff a team like that.

[DL44]

I think it's clear that Weber does not want to play in Nashville anymore.

That's where i disagree.

This whole process imo was Weber taking advantage of the market set out by Suter's contract to get his money. I think he used Philly to get the mega deal he was looking to land, and has no qualms about playing for either city - Nashville or Philly - since he's well aware that the likelihood of Nashville to match is extremely high considering their cap space and desire to hold on to their captain.

Gillis eluded to as much during his interview presently on the Team 1040... he had a 3 hr meeting with the Weber camp in Kelowna with discussions on how he could become a Canuck, and they concluded that Nashville would match any contract with term. And it was Weber's priority to land such a deal, so they concluded it wasn't going to be an avenue that the Canucks could go down and land Weber. He's certain the Preds will match the current offer.

Weber will have nooo problem returning to Nashville with $110 mil coming his way. And Nsshville, considering their present salary commitments and the new upcoming CBA, will have no financial issues paying him.

[C_worthy]

and imagine if there is a rollback... Nashville will be laughing about having one of the league's top D locked up for life at less than $7.8 mil/yr.

I don'tknow if bonuses get rolled back or not, but the immediate one definitely doesn't.

The owners have to cut cheques regardless of the cap impacts or anything else.

Also, with Suter gone, even if they do match Weber, there is no guarantee that 1) the fans will continue to the support the team at the recent level (maybe the Suter situation alone has tainted them), and 2) that they will make the playoffs - in fact, I doubt it personally.

So again, $26m in 11 months to a guy that may or may not be dis-illusioned with the franchise is one big hefty gamble.

[DL44]

I don'tknow if bonuses get rolled back or not, but the immediate one definitely doesn't.

The owners have to cut cheques regardless of the cap impacts or anything else.

Also, with Suter gone, even if they do match Weber, there is no guarantee that 1) the fans will continue to the support the team at the recent level (maybe the Suter situation alone has tainted them), and 2) that they will make the playoffs - in fact, I doubt it personally.

So again, $26m in 11 months to a guy that may or may not be dis-illusioned with the franchise is one big hefty gamble.

??? a hefty gamble because he may or may not be disillusioned with the franchise?

You know they have the ability to ask him and his agent right... communication is actually possible between the two parties. Answer may not be readily available to the public, but i think you can take it to the bank that the Preds are doing their due diligence this week..

And i'm kinda lost about the point of your middle paragraph there... are suggesting that since there is no gaurantee fan support remains or that they make the playoffs next yr with Weber, that they shouldn't match a 14 yr contract? What kinda short-sighted logic is that?? - if in fact that is what you meant. if not then explain please.

Like i said in may original post, much of the logic i've heard supporting the idea Nashville will not match has been similar short-sighted variations C's comments... I just don't see it.

I don'tknow if bonuses get rolled back or not, but the immediate one definitely doesn't.

The owners have to cut cheques regardless of the cap impacts or anything else.

Also, with Suter gone, even if they do match Weber, there is no guarantee that 1) the fans will continue to the support the team at the recent level (maybe the Suter situation alone has tainted them), and 2) that they will make the playoffs - in fact, I doubt it personally.

So again, $26m in 11 months to a guy that may or may not be dis-illusioned with the franchise is one big hefty gamble.

??? a hefty gamble because he may or may not be disillusioned with the franchise?

You know they have the ability to ask him and his agent right... communication is actually possible between the two parties. Answer may not be readily available to the public, but i think you can take it to the bank that the Preds are doing their due diligence this week..

And i'm kinda lost about the point of your middle paragraph there... are suggesting that since there is no gaurantee fan support remains or that they make the playoffs next yr with Weber, that they shouldn't match a 14 yr contract? What kinda short-sighted logic is that?? - if in fact that is what you meant. if not then explain please.

Like i said in may original post, much of the logic i've heard supporting the idea Nashville will not match has been similar short-sighted variations C's comments... I just don't see it.

[Flyerfan52]

??? a hefty gamble because he may or may not be disillusioned with the franchise?

You know they have the ability to ask him and his agent right... communication is actually possible between the two parties. Answer may not be readily available to the public, but i think you can take it to the bank that the Preds are doing their due diligence this week..

And i'm kinda lost about the point of your middle paragraph there... are suggesting that since there is no gaurantee fan support remains or that they make the playoffs next yr with Weber, that they shouldn't match a 14 yr contract? What kinda short-sighted logic is that?? - if in fact that is what you meant. if not then explain please.

Like i said in may original post, much of the logic i've heard supporting the idea Nashville will not match has been similar short-sighted variations C's comments... I just don't see it.

The 1 given is that if Nashville matches they fork over $13 million on the signing date, $1 million before the season starts & another $13 million July 1/13.

I'm not positive if the 1 year they are barred from trading Weber is a calender year or a season so it's possible they pay $14 million for 1 season & trade him. The other option is $27 million & then trade. (Regardless the 1st 4 seasons cost 14 per which is a big chunk of the budget for a team that usually hangs around closer to the cap floor then the ceiling.)

If the fans come through & pay for enough of their season tickets (available @ a fairly low price compared to the richer hockey markets) it could make a difference. Unless there is 1 heck of a run on those in the next 2 days it's a low odds bet.

Weber knew when he signed the OS that there was a chance he could play for Nashville. He'd be worth the contract. It's just the structure that could sink the franchise. Paying 14 with a cap hit of 7.8 means they be @ near the floor with 20 players signed but the real $s are 6-19 million higher. Odds are the remainder for a full roster would be the low $ variety. They'd remove chances of being competitive to a bigger degree then Weber helps.

*If Weber were injured enough to require LTIR they'd have to scramble to add salary to be cap compatible for NHL revenue sharing as they don't have those big $ contracts to take them over the top. Their highest paid AHL players are around 1.3.*

[C_worthy]

??? a hefty gamble because he may or may not be disillusioned with the franchise?

You know they have the ability to ask him and his agent right... communication is actually possible between the two parties. Answer may not be readily available to the public, but i think you can take it to the bank that the Preds are doing their due diligence this week..

And i'm kinda lost about the point of your middle paragraph there... are suggesting that since there is no gaurantee fan support remains or that they make the playoffs next yr with Weber, that they shouldn't match a 14 yr contract? What kinda short-sighted logic is that?? - if in fact that is what you meant. if not then explain please.

Like i said in may original post, much of the logic i've heard supporting the idea Nashville will not match has been similar short-sighted variations C's comments... I just don't see it.

Obviously they will discuss it with him. Do you have employees? Have you ever had a conversation with them and they tell you one thing but then go and do something else? It is a 14 year contract. How ofyen do ultra long term contracts sstill seem like a good idea 3 to 5 years afyer the fact? It is most definitely a huge gamble (and I think it's you that is being short-sighted)

The second comment was in reference to people that have argued that the $26m in the first year isn't a big deal because if they don't atch they will be foregoing playoff revenue. I am arguing that the playoff revenue is probably gone already (yes, short-term here, with the present value of these dollars, that is what's relevant).

There is nothing short-sighted about thinking that a $110m, 14 year contract is a huge risk. Plus, it is massively front-loaded... should Nashville be less enamoured with Weber a few years down the line, any GM that might want to trade him at that point will be hard pressed to convince the owners to move him, considering the huge dollars that they have invested in him. So there is a big risk taht he becomes an albatross.

14 year deal. I am not being short-sighted at all.

[DL44]

^ FF52.. short-sighted. Nashville can easily afford Weber for 4 seasons and still ice a competetive roster... just like the one they presently have..

20 players @ $56 mil. A couple more signings like Blum, and its not far off from what they've spent the last couple yrs.

Last yr: $52 mil payroll

10-11: $51 mil

09-10: $44 mil

Also consider the new CBA.

Like i said, it's easy for them to keep him..

And that whole $27 mil thing in the next 11 months... it's still part of the salary owed.. its just paid in a chunk instead of paid over the yr. I fail to see the stress it would cause the organization. Just less money they would have come out during the yr.