Flyerfan52 Posted July 16, 2012 Report Share Posted July 16, 2012 And if that turns out to be the case, we trade some aging vets at the deadline and probably end up drafting a top C. Ouch! _________________________ Iggy to LA Kipper to Chicago JBo to Flyers Glencross & Sarich to either Flyers or Jets Gio, Butler & Irving to the Jets Keep Baertschi & Jankowski & recent draftees to be part of the 5+ year build from the ditch. Everyone else over 23 to the highest bidder. They're the 1s I like as long as they wear the Flames jersey but have no real like/dislike for. Trying to send my favorites to teams I either like or don't dislike. I won't mention a return as such an abrupt u-turn means prospects/1st year players/picks. *Add Babchuk to Pens or Canucks. I don't like either team. * ____________________________ Many of you realize I don't like the scorched earth attempt to start over (I believe CW was beings sarcastic BTW) but decided to make it clear because we seem to have gained newer members that aren't quite sure of my stance yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carty Posted July 16, 2012 Report Share Posted July 16, 2012 And if that turns out to be the case, we trade some aging vets at the deadline and probably end up drafting a top C. And if that is the case, we could very well have our own high pick after a poor season to do that with... Plus any picks gained from trades... But that is not a position I would like to see the team in... Then there is the development time for any picks, or even prospects... It is like giving your Ford car away that at least got you from A to B, because you really want a Ferrari, knowing that you hate to ride the bus or walk, and then having to ask yourself why you didn`t think things out better while you are hoofing it down the street wondering just how long it might take to get that Ferrari... This isn`t about taking a risk on 1 or even 2 lines... It is all 4, and that is without even taking into consideration any potential injuries... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschool17 Posted July 16, 2012 Report Share Posted July 16, 2012 And if that turns out to be the case, we trade some aging vets at the deadline and probably end up drafting a top C. Waaaay easier said than done. There isn't a top C every draft class, much less how many year would it take for them to be ready. Easier to acquire one through trade and draft around Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted July 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2012 Thanks for the responses, I think a Jim Leahy s$#%storm of discussion is worthwile though. For those pointing out the negative-nelly stuff, it's not really like that. It is a point of concern that warrants some discussion towards our most glaring question mark, as usual. Ring, you pretty much said it how I meant it, but I didn't wanna come across so blatantly. So thanks for the tourrette's! The Stempniak/Comeau signings got done far too quickly for my liking. I'm okay with Jokinen leaving, but only if I hear we have another vet C coming in. FF wondered about Hecht. At the very least we need that, my slant was Arnott but the same thinking as FF, I think. Arnott is a far more outspoken once-leader than Hecht, and I believe the C's we have need that. Watch all the tape you want on the competition's FOs, experience in real time I believe would help a lot, and he's a big body on PP. Because as it stands, it's Jokinen out, Cervenka in. That doesn't address the C position, like, at all. Imho I'd love to see a stop-gap signing for a vet C anywhere 1-4 that can bolster the C's we have via insight. Currently it's Stajan, and I'm not knocking Stajan, when has that C that he can relate to for advice been on the Flames roster, ever? But currently, he's our go to guy. Sounds pretty fair for him. If we got Arnott in the 1.5-2 range short term, I'd be happy. But that's just me, his dad! j/k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyerfan52 Posted July 16, 2012 Report Share Posted July 16, 2012 FF wondered about Hecht. At the very least we need that, my slant was Arnott but the same thinking as FF, I think. Arnott is a far more outspoken once-leader than Hecht, and I believe the C's we have need that. If we got Arnott in the 1.5-2 range short term, I'd be happy. But that's just me, his dad! j/k I was thinking along that same line but for some reason thought Arnott had already signed somewhere in the last few days. I'd take Arnott over Hecht too. Same kind of deal - 1 year @ 2 or under. On the last part, I'm sure sonny can send you beer money for a few more years Mr. Arnott Sr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WILLDABEAST Posted July 16, 2012 Report Share Posted July 16, 2012 Waaaay easier said than done. There isn't a top C every draft class, much less how many year would it take for them to be ready. Easier to acquire one through trade and draft around If drafting a top center was the gameplan we woulda picked one up in the first round this year as we had some great centers sitting in our laps I was thinking along that same line but for some reason thought Arnott had already signed somewhere in the last few days. I'd take Arnott over Hecht too. Same kind of deal - 1 year @ 2 or under. On the last part, I'm sure sonny can send you beer money for a few more years Mr. Arnott Sr. Whoaaa now... Im not sure about this one... It passes the eye test but im not sure it solves the problems... Arnott plays a unique power style that i dont feel applies as much to stajan i dont see that being the best guy to teach him... Secondly arnott has dropped off alot and just isnt going to be able to pitch in and eat top minutes if we get injuries or if our guys perform poorly... I like the idea of chasing a veteran center but arnott doesnt feel like the guy we need... However its hard to find someone like that this far into free agency Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercer_51 Posted July 17, 2012 Report Share Posted July 17, 2012 Secondly arnott has dropped off alot and just isnt going to be able to pitch in and eat top minutes if we get injuries or if our guys perform poorly... I like the idea of chasing a veteran center but arnott doesnt feel like the guy we need... Agreed. Unfortunalely the Arnott of 2012 is too far gone from Arnott circa 2006, 07. Don't get me wrong, at 37, 17 goals & 34 pts. isn't terrible..... but at this point in his career, I think he is capable of being decently productive because of playing lower, easier minutes against other teams 3rd lines and 3rd d pairings. Don't think is the #1 center we're looking for. That, and It's hard to say if he'd come back to Alberta. I seem to remember an issue there at some point in the 90's........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyerfan52 Posted July 17, 2012 Report Share Posted July 17, 2012 Whoaaa now... Im not sure about this one... It passes the eye test but im not sure it solves the problems... Arnott plays a unique power style that i dont feel applies as much to stajan i dont see that being the best guy to teach him... Secondly arnott has dropped off alot and just isnt going to be able to pitch in and eat top minutes if we get injuries or if our guys perform poorly... I like the idea of chasing a veteran center but arnott doesnt feel like the guy we need... However its hard to find someone like that this far into free agency It's not meant to solve the problem. It's a stop-gap to give us a short term option should the wingers fail to cut it as centers. I don't think there was any talk on bringing in a mentor for Stajan. He's 28 so the help he'll get relies with the coaches. He'll be traded if there is a return but barring trade/signing he's our most experienced center (sad as that may be). Arnott/Hecht & the like are names being tossed around because they look like the best of a less then spectacular group of UFA centers. Speaking only of my view I see even a graybeard that's lost a few steps (& should likely be used on the 3/4 line) as a safeguard should the experiments fail. I just see it as giving the team somewhat of a parachute. A metaphor would be walking a tight rope (betting on 2-3 wingers to succeed as 1 & 2 centers) but having that safety net you hope you never need. Yet you'll be very happy it's there if the need arises. __________________________ BTW, you put up some good, well thought out posts. Maybe I'll let you buy me a beer 1 day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WILLDABEAST Posted July 17, 2012 Report Share Posted July 17, 2012 It's not meant to solve the problem. It's a stop-gap to give us a short term option should the wingers fail to cut it as centers. I don't think there was any talk on bringing in a mentor for Stajan. He's 28 so the help he'll get relies with the coaches. He'll be traded if there is a return but barring trade/signing he's our most experienced center (sad as that may be). Arnott/Hecht & the like are names being tossed around because they look like the best of a less then spectacular group of UFA centers. Speaking only of my view I see even a graybeard that's lost a few steps (& should likely be used on the 3/4 line) as a safeguard should the experiments fail. I just see it as giving the team somewhat of a parachute. A metaphor would be walking a tight rope (betting on 2-3 wingers to succeed as 1 & 2 centers) but having that safety net you hope you never need. Yet you'll be very happy it's there if the need arises. __________________________ BTW, you put up some good, well thought out posts. Maybe I'll let you buy me a beer 1 day. We can work on that deal... But if you want a stop gap dont take arnott... Hes a step too slow and is going to get exposed by opposing teams top lines... Id rather take a lesser skilled younger guy who can at least keep pace... May not be the bigname but its better then having a 3rd or 4rth line guy in arnott taking top minutes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C_worthy Posted July 17, 2012 Report Share Posted July 17, 2012 Waaaay easier said than done. There isn't a top C every draft class, much less how many year would it take for them to be ready. Easier to acquire one through trade and draft around Take a look at next year's draft projections - loaded with large, talented Cs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
returnofthejets Posted July 17, 2012 Report Share Posted July 17, 2012 Of course, in the end I agree that letting Joker walk was poor asset management. Especially at the price he took in Winnepeg. Sorry Castle, just have to point out a correction. Winnipeg. But I think it's been discussed that Feaster didn't have much option in this case as Joker didn't want to waive his NTC. So if all that is true then Feaster didn't have much choice. But once he started to have a choice I'm not sure what he was thinking of. I'm just concerned that this team will be stuck in a game of keep away and always chasing the play without a true center that can handle the responsibilities and requirements of a top line center. FF, I'm just glad in your sarcastic rebuild you didn't send Stajan to the Jets to join Poni, Antro, and Wellwood. It's not as bad as it seems, but 3 former Leafs puts me at my maximum level of Leaf tolerance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyerfan52 Posted July 17, 2012 Report Share Posted July 17, 2012 FF, I'm just glad in your sarcastic rebuild you didn't send Stajan to the Jets to join Poni, Antro, and Wellwood. It's not as bad as it seems, but 3 former Leafs puts me at my maximum level of Leaf tolerance. Heck no. I only defend Stajan now because he's the best remaining center the Flames have. If not for that I'd be happy to trade him to teams I don't like. The 1s I did pick to go to the Jets are all 1s I see fitting the TN template. I didn't take any big contracts & stuck with needs/upgrades. The Jets may be my 3rd team but I want something competitive in my home town. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andymo Posted July 17, 2012 Report Share Posted July 17, 2012 Take a look at next year's draft projections - loaded with large, talented Cs We just picked a large, talented C. It's true he may take a long time to develop and when he does he might be a long way shy of his potential upside. But that is always the case in the draft. There is a whole lot of sceptisism over Cervenka's abilty to adapt to the NHL but I can guarantee we won't be drafting anybody with NHL experience. Can't just say we'll draft a 1C next year. Even if you are talking of chucking in the towel in Feb and drafting high we'll already be months behind the truly accomplished and committed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ring-a-ding-dong-dandy Posted July 17, 2012 Report Share Posted July 17, 2012 More doom and gloom eh boys. Haven't kicked this dead horse enough? I bet all three of you that the C position does better than you predicted above. I bet Avg FO at the end of the season is above 50% and they combine for more points thist year than last. The offer stands Besides there isn't much anyone can do except cheer on your team. Be a fan. Not saying turn on the blinders but try for some optimism I fully support every player on this team, but if you can't see this team is in a dire position down the middle then you have your blinders on. I have come to grips that we don't have a true #1 center. But the fact we have to move a winger to center just to have a top 6 center is pathetic. The fact that our top 2 centers will be weak defensively and poor on faceoffs makes it even worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ifiwaschucknorris Posted July 17, 2012 Report Share Posted July 17, 2012 As it stands right now yes our center position is brutal but are we sure it's going to stay this way? It seems to me like Feaster is stocking wingers and D a little too much. maybe there is a trade in the works to get us a #1 Center? Just to clarify when I say #1C I mean a guy who is capable of playing the minutes effectively. LW Tangs Cammy GlenX Bear Comeau RW Iggy Stempy Jacks(Is he still with us? everything I can find says yes but I thought he was FA) Aliu Nemisz C Stajan Backlund Hudler Cervenka Bouma Horak Jones Kolanos This just seems so.....incomplete. Way to overloaded on the left side and to much #3C/#4C depth down the middle. I have to believe that there is a plan to acquire a #1 guy. Maybe GlenX+Bouma/Jones for a Ryan O'Reilly or Paul Stastny or someone of that ilk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CastleMania Posted July 17, 2012 Report Share Posted July 17, 2012 As it stands right now yes our center position is brutal but are we sure it's going to stay this way? It seems to me like Feaster is stocking wingers and D a little too much. maybe there is a trade in the works to get us a #1 Center? Just to clarify when I say #1C I mean a guy who is capable of playing the minutes effectively. LW Tangs Cammy GlenX Bear Comeau RW Iggy Stempy Jacks(Is he still with us? everything I can find says yes but I thought he was FA) Aliu Nemisz C Stajan Backlund Hudler Cervenka Bouma Horak Jones Kolanos This just seems so.....incomplete. Way to overloaded on the left side and to much #3C/#4C depth down the middle. I have to believe that there is a plan to acquire a #1 guy. Maybe GlenX+Bouma/Jones for a Ryan O'Reilly or Paul Stastny or someone of that ilk. Jackman was signed to a 2-year deal in February. As for the deal for a centre, as always I don't see how a bunch of spare parts add up to a first/second line centre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andymo Posted July 17, 2012 Report Share Posted July 17, 2012 Jackman was resigned before the end of last season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted July 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2012 Jacks(Is he still with us? everything I can find says yes but I thought he was FA) C Stajan Backlund Hudler Cervenka Bouma Horak Jones Kolanos Jackman resigned last year(2 year/$612,500 per). I seem to remember Feaster saying he was resigned for a deadline deal that went south, but I could be mistaken. I'm fine with him at that price. Your C list includes Cervenka (LW) and Hudler (LW/RW), which is the part that unnerves me. Neither have been playing as natural centers at this level (or the KHL level). I'm not saying they can't make the transition, but it raises an eyebrow of serious concern if they don't transition very well. Feaster has assured us that they can play C, but that doesn't make him correct as there is no supporting evidence. Cammalleri being an option raises that old debate for all 3 guys: "Are we utilizing our individual player's skillsets appropriately?". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted July 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2012 Letting Olli walk without a replacement in mind was a terrible choice. It remains to be seen. It'll certainly remain in the footnotes of conversation until then. If what your saying proves to be true, god help us. Hopefully that won't be the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geos Posted July 17, 2012 Report Share Posted July 17, 2012 It remains to be seen. No, it really doesn't remain to be seen. Allowing a top centre on a team with no centres to walk while using his salary to buy your 5th top 6 LW'er is wrong. I believe that to be a fundamental truth. Tangs, Bear, GlenX, Cammy and then we go get Hudler with money which could have been used to secure a centre? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C_worthy Posted July 17, 2012 Report Share Posted July 17, 2012 Jackman resigned last year(2 year/$612,500 per). I seem to remember Feaster saying he was resigned for a deadline deal that went south, but I could be mistaken. I'm fine with him at that price. Your C list includes Cervenka (LW) and Hudler (LW/RW), which is the part that unnerves me. Neither have been playing as natural centers at this level (or the KHL level). I'm not saying they can't make the transition, but it raises an eyebrow of serious concern if they don't transition very well. Feaster has assured us that they can play C, but that doesn't make him correct as there is no supporting evidence. Cammalleri being an option raises that old debate for all 3 guys: "Are we utilizing our individual player's skillsets appropriately?". Yes, that is what Feaster said. And I continue to believe he will be moved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted July 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2012 No, it really doesn't remain to be seen. Allowing a top centre on a team with no centres to walk while using his salary to buy your 5th top 6 LW'er is wrong. I believe that to be a fundamental truth. Tangs, Bear, GlenX, Cammy and then we go get Hudler with money which could have been used to secure a centre? Actually, yeah, it really does remain to be seen. I'm pretty sure you're being a drama queen. Come what may, let it come before passing judgement, seems logical to me. It's a concern, leave it at that for now. It remains to be seen... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlamesLogic Posted July 17, 2012 Report Share Posted July 17, 2012 Jackman resigned last year(2 year/$612,500 per). I seem to remember Feaster saying he was resigned for a deadline deal that went south, but I could be mistaken. I'm fine with him at that price. Your C list includes Cervenka (LW) and Hudler (LW/RW), which is the part that unnerves me. Neither have been playing as natural centers at this level (or the KHL level). I'm not saying they can't make the transition, but it raises an eyebrow of serious concern if they don't transition very well. Feaster has assured us that they can play C, but that doesn't make him correct as there is no supporting evidence. Cammalleri being an option raises that old debate for all 3 guys: "Are we utilizing our individual player's skillsets appropriately?". While I dont consider Cervenka a true C, he does find some similarities in usage to some of the Sharks players that swap into the C and W positions. Guys like Marleau, Pavelski, Couture. Could be that Cervenka doesnt play C 100% of the time or even 75% of the time, but as long as he does well while he is there like he did in a similar fashion in the KHL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
successfulblackman Posted July 17, 2012 Report Share Posted July 17, 2012 Yes, it was... I still think jay has a move or two up his sleeve. No GM would let their best Centre walk with out having a replacement in mind. Maybe their replacement signed with another team? who knows, All I know is that Free agency is not over, and Jay still has time to make the moves he needs to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carty Posted July 17, 2012 Report Share Posted July 17, 2012 I still think jay has a move or two up his sleeve. No GM would let their best Centre walk with out having a replacement in mind. Maybe their replacement signed with another team? who knows, All I know is that Free agency is not over, and Jay still has time to make the moves he needs to make. It is one thing to have a replacement in mind, and an entirely different thing to have a replacement secured... A better way of putting it is no GM in his right mind lets his best center walk without having a proper replacement already in place... I hope Jay does have a trick or two up his sleeve, because otherwise if this little experiment of his backfires, this could go down as Feasters biggest boneheaded move so far in his tenure with the team... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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