Cammalleri At Center

[DL44]

OFF TOPIC:

I was gonna start a new thread, but it woulda been looked at as a troll thread..

just having discussions with a buddy over the state of my team... but got me thinking of the Flames...

Does anyone have concerns the Flames my be among the 'Soft' teams of the league?

-not saying they are. just wondering if anyone is concerned that they may be.

Since The Run, Calgary had established a reputation as being one of the most physical and difficult teams in the league to play against.

Obviously that rep has only slightly diminished the last few yrs... But the turnover this season and last has been significant....

Any concerns on the potential physicality level the Flames will bring this season?

[Crzydrvr]

OFF TOPIC:

I was gonna start a new thread, but it woulda been looked at as a troll thread..

just having discussions with a buddy over the state of my team... but got me thinking of the Flames...

Does anyone have concerns the Flames my be among the 'Soft' teams of the league?

-not saying they are. just wondering if anyone is concerned that they may be.

Since The Run, Calgary had established a reputation as being one of the most physical and difficult teams in the league to play against.

Obviously that rep has only slightly diminished the last few yrs... But the turnover this season and last has been significant....

Any concerns on the potential physicality level the Flames will bring this season?

Physicality is as much mental as it is physical. You can be tough to play against and a physical team without having to be like the 07 Ducks or the current Bruins.

If Hartley gets the guys to buy in, if the team instills an aggressive puck pursuit, the small things (finishing checks, blocking shots, winning puck battles) will take care of themselves without the players needing to put it in the front of their minds. "Tough" is a pretty subjective term; you can be a sh*tty team to play against without making huge highlight-reel checks every game, IMO.

[DL44]

Physicality is as much mental as it is physical. You can be tough to play against and a physical team without having to be like the 07 Ducks or the current Bruins.

If Hartley gets the guys to buy in, if the team instills an aggressive puck pursuit, the small things (finishing checks, blocking shots, winning puck battles) will take care of themselves without the players needing to put it in the front of their minds. "Tough" is a pretty subjective term; you can be a sh*tty team to play against without making huge highlight-reel checks every game, IMO.

So then put another way... Did the Flames acquire players (or have players) with the capability or attributes to play the style you've described... and how would you rank the Flames potential of 'buying in' and playing that way relative to the other teams in the league?

[C_worthy]

The Flames haven't been a physical, tough-to-play-against team for some time (at least 3 years, IMO, if not more).

Outgoing guys like Prust, Phaneuf, Vandermeer, Nystrom, Regehr, Bertuzzi, Nolan, Roy, Goddard, etc, over the last few years have been steadily replaced by guys like Bouwmeester, Butler, Tanguay, Hudler, Stajan, Cammalleri (though, while small, he's as tough as nails), Cevenka, etc.

Their D to start 09-10 was Bouwmeester, Regehr, Phaneuf, Giordano, Sarich, Staios and Pardy

As it stands right now .... Bouwmeester, Butler, WIdeman, Giordano, Sarich, Brodie, Smith and Babchuk.

Big, big differnece in toughness. And that didn't happen overnight.

We will see how 'soft' they actually play. But their reputaion no longer applies and hasn't for years.

[Carty]

But their reputaion no longer applies and hasn't for years.

Sad, but true...

I miss those years when teams feared crossing the Flames blueline...

[Zirakzigil]

Does anyone have concerns the Flames my be among the 'Soft' teams of the league?

Its not that there are concerns, the fact is the Flames are. The Flames have been a soft team for the past couple years at least.

[BobbyB12]

So then put another way... Did the Flames acquire players (or have players) with the capability or attributes to play the style you've described... and how would you rank the Flames potential of 'buying in' and playing that way relative to the other teams in the league?

The Flames have gotten a softer over the past few years there is no denying that especially on D replacing some of the physical big hitters for quicker younger D so if they do lay a hit they can skate back into position alot better (not every hit has to be a Highlight reel hit to make a difference although I do believe in the Intimidation factor ).

We have gotten smaller up front and I would have liked to see some bigger guys in the top 6 but as it is its not completely unbalanced throughout the line up its not like all the small guys are a bunch of buttered king crab cats!

I'm not that concerned about it as I am on D I would like to add a D that can clear the front of the net better than the D men we have.

I'm Not sure how to rank the potential how the Flames are going to buy in to this new system as we haven't seen how the Coaching style or how the new players mesh with the Flames, They have all talked the talk but until I see them walk the walk I couldn't tell ya how they will buy in.

I do think players that have been here for the last 3 years of non playoff hockey will be extra hungry to get in and give a little more effort game in and game out.

I def dont wanna hear the same old story that " I really thought this year we were gonna get in we were so close" I really hope those exit interviews and all the haters around the Flames and the changing atmosphere give them that extra motivation to push themselves a little harder.

Comeau - plays a physical game not shy to finish his checks, last year was a learning curve for him a full season with the Flames and something to prove I think he will have a comeback season. I personally think he was one of our best hitters last year.

Glencross - is no slouch he can provide offense and play gritty and is not scared to block shots, He has found the balance between the two.

Jones - is a agitator 6'2 216lbs good on the back check blocks shots hits, If he plays how he did for the short time he was with us last year for a full season he will get noticed around the league.

Jackman - is our tough guy always finishes checks and will throw down when needed.

Iggy - His age is catching up to him but he's still strong as a bull and tough to play against.

Sarich - Big hitter and can clear the front of the net.

Gio - He may not be the biggest guy but he can play physical and he's our blocked shot's leader for 2 years running.

Babchuck - I know many people here think he's just a big shot but he's actually a really good shot blocker he only played 32 games last year with 48 shots blocked. Once he got into a groove he wasn't all that bad.

Wideman - The Flames have taken alot of heat for paying him alot of money but last year he was 4th on the Caps in blocked shots and 6th in hits I dont think he's pure offense as many analysts say. Only time will tell.

Up and coming gritty players

Bouma - Big gritty kid not scared to block shots or finish his checks. He's buddy's with Lucic so im sure he's picked up a few pointers from him to improve his game over the summer (Lucic gave Bouma a shout out when they one the cup if no one noticed)

Ferland - Another big kid that is known for his physicality but also can bring offense.

Aliu - Huge kid who can hit, fight, skate, not bad hands either. Now that he's finally matured a bit I have no doubt that he will make an impact on the Flames in the next few years.

Reinhart - Plays a good 2 way game good on the back check, really smart player.

Sieloff - Heavy hitter although he is a few years away from the NHL I can see him turning out to be a Sarich type of player.

[WILLDABEAST]

The Flames have gotten a softer over the past few years there is no denying that especially on D replacing some of the physical big hitters for quicker younger D so if they do lay a hit they can skate back into position alot better (not every hit has to be a Highlight reel hit to make a difference although I do believe in the Intimidation factor ).

We have gotten smaller up front and I would have liked to see some bigger guys in the top 6 but as it is its not completely unbalanced throughout the line up its not like all the small guys are a bunch of buttered king crab cats!

I'm not that concerned about it as I am on D I would like to add a D that can clear the front of the net better than the D men we have.

I'm Not sure how to rank the potential how the Flames are going to buy in to this new system as we haven't seen how the Coaching style or how the new players mesh with the Flames, They have all talked the talk but until I see them walk the walk I couldn't tell ya how they will buy in.

I do think players that have been here for the last 3 years of non playoff hockey will be extra hungry to get in and give a little more effort game in and game out.

I def dont wanna hear the same old story that " I really thought this year we were gonna get in we were so close" I really hope those exit interviews and all the haters around the Flames and the changing atmosphere give them that extra motivation to push themselves a little harder.

Comeau - plays a physical game not shy to finish his checks, last year was a learning curve for him a full season with the Flames and something to prove I think he will have a comeback season. I personally think he was one of our best hitters last year.

Glencross - is no slouch he can provide offense and play gritty and is not scared to block shots, He has found the balance between the two.

Jones - is a agitator 6'2 216lbs good on the back check blocks shots hits, If he plays how he did for the short time he was with us last year for a full season he will get noticed around the league.

Jackman - is our tough guy always finishes checks and will throw down when needed.

Iggy - His age is catching up to him but he's still strong as a bull and tough to play against.

Sarich - Big hitter and can clear the front of the net.

Gio - He may not be the biggest guy but he can play physical and he's our blocked shot's leader for 2 years running.

Babchuck - I know many people here think he's just a big shot but he's actually a really good shot blocker he only played 32 games last year with 48 shots blocked. Once he got into a groove he wasn't all that bad.

Wideman - The Flames have taken alot of heat for paying him alot of money but last year he was 4th on the Caps in blocked shots and 6th in hits I dont think he's pure offense as many analysts say. Only time will tell.

Up and coming gritty players

Bouma - Big gritty kid not scared to block shots or finish his checks. He's buddy's with Lucic so im sure he's picked up a few pointers from him to improve his game over the summer (Lucic gave Bouma a shout out when they one the cup if no one noticed)

Ferland - Another big kid that is known for his physicality but also can bring offense.

Aliu - Huge kid who can hit, fight, skate, not bad hands either. Now that he's finally matured a bit I have no doubt that he will make an impact on the Flames in the next few years.

Reinhart - Plays a good 2 way game good on the back check, really smart player.

Sieloff - Heavy hitter although he is a few years away from the NHL I can see him turning out to be a Sarich type of player.

I like the analysis but just wanted to throw this out about wideman he hits and can block shots but he isnt a guy you want eating tough minutes.. The reason those analysts say he is all offense is because he had all zone starts in the opposing teams end and against the other teams least offensively capable unit... And he still got scored on quite a bit... He fits the definition of an offensive specialist on the back end

[BobbyB12]

I like the analysis but just wanted to throw this out about wideman he hits and can block shots but he isnt a guy you want eating tough minutes.. The reason those analysts say he is all offense is because he had all zone starts in the opposing teams end and against the other teams least offensively capable unit... And he still got scored on quite a bit... He fits the definition of an offensive specialist on the back end

I agree he's a Offensive specialist I'm not saying that he's a Defensive specialist or I would want him eating up big mins against other teams top lines, I was just pointing out that stat wise he's not half bad at blocking shots or hitting.

[conundrumed]

Tanguay is a feeder, better to have two snipers to feed IMO. If there is a silver lining left over from Sutter, all of Tanguay, Cammalleri and even Iginla came back and played better defense last year. Maybe they learned something.

I'm down with that, but do we really want Cammy at $6mil/per worrying about C defensive responsibility? I don't.

As for us being small, yup. worried.

Skilled is going to have to matter.

Not necessarily a bad thing after this round with the PA and %age cut. Concessions concessions concessions...

I predict hockey will suck just a bit more than last times game-change. It'll become unwatchable if they aren't careful.

Hope I'm wrong.

[jjgallow]

I think the new rules are a step in the right direction and I would much rather pay to see a show of hockey skill than sub-par mma anyday. If I want to watch fighting, I'll go watch proffesional fighting. With a trained referee, proffessional fighters, and a fair fighting environment that doesn't include sticks, blades, jerseys, or equipment. There is nothing more ridiculous than watching two grown men literally try to see who can undress the other first, and pull their Jersey over their head. What is that and when did we start paying to watch it???

Generally, all the rule changes aimed at less concusions means more highlight reals, more skills, more moves, more talent. That's what I expect out of the top hockey league in the world.

[Flyerfan52]

I think the new rules are a step in the right direction and I would much rather pay to see a show of hockey skill than sub-par mma anyday. If I want to watch fighting, I'll go watch proffesional fighting. With a trained referee, proffessional fighters, and a fair fighting environment that doesn't include sticks, blades, jerseys, or equipment. There is nothing more ridiculous than watching two grown men literally try to see who can undress the other first, and pull their Jersey over their head. What is that and when did we start paying to watch it???

Generally, all the rule changes aimed at less concusions means more highlight reals, more skills, more moves, more talent. That's what I expect out of the top hockey league in the world.

You're spewing about the staged fights between designated wastes of a roster spot that the NHL continues to allow while decrying the passion filled hits/fights which are usually in response to some weasel hacking/grabbing/slew-footing.

IOWs, they put in a sideshow (thinking it would satisfy fans) while removing what kept players honest. Fans didn't want a fight for the sake of a fight, we liked the fact some SOB was getting taught that what he was doing was unacceptable.

Having 2 guys not even involved in the game get their 2 minutes or less ice time before being sent to the showers is a farce. That is the part that could easily be removed without offending hockey fans.

In the '50s (& before)thru '90s fights were about teaching the cheap shot artists that that crap didn't fly. The stars protected themselves but knew the team would back them to prevent them being double teamed. Great players were bloodied (Richard vs Howe for instance)but the line brawls were about the game rather then that little sideshow. The tough guys on every team could also take a regular shift & put up points.

Removing staged fights might not only reduce concussions among designated fighters (& no sideshow/no need so remove their reason for a contract) but also decrease them among players because many are from blindside hits. Remove the instigator/3rd man in rule & you decrease the odds of that because payback would be a spicy orange duck. You'd probably see more exciting (high light reel quality) goals because the guy on the break isn't getting hacked, etc. The talent/skill gets to show itself.

You've been reading too much Adam Proteau/Ken MacKenzie.

[oldschool17]

You're spewing about the staged fights between designated wastes of a roster spot that the NHL continues to allow while decrying the passion filled hits/fights which are usually in response to some weasel hacking/grabbing/slew-footing.

IOWs, they put in a sideshow (thinking it would satisfy fans) while removing what kept players honest. Fans didn't want a fight for the sake of a fight, we liked the fact some SOB was getting taught that what he was doing was unacceptable.

Having 2 guys not even involved in the game get their 2 minutes or less ice time before being sent to the showers is a farce. That is the part that could easily be removed without offending hockey fans.

In the '50s (& before)thru '90s fights were about teaching the cheap shot artists that that crap didn't fly. The stars protected themselves but knew the team would back them to prevent them being double teamed. Great players were bloodied (Richard vs Howe for instance)but the line brawls were about the game rather then that little sideshow. The tough guys on every team could also take a regular shift & put up points.

Removing staged fights might not only reduce concussions among designated fighters (& no sideshow/no need so remove their reason for a contract) but also decrease them among players because many are from blindside hits. Remove the instigator/3rd man in rule & you decrease the odds of that because payback would be a spicy orange duck. You'd probably see more exciting (high light reel quality) goals because the guy on the break isn't getting hacked, etc. The talent/skill gets to show itself.

You've been reading too much Adam Proteau/Ken MacKenzie.

Agreed. As a side note, eliminating fighting would also open the less tough players up to be suckered. As the case with the headshot rule, everything would become inconsistent and discretionary and as such cheap shots would run rampant with no repercussions equating to skill level dropping. Fighting, like it or not, is how men settle and balance justice on that sheet of ice. Eliminating the side show garbage is easy enough, But every player out there agrees or at least the high majority do, that it's a necessary part of the game.

[conundrumed]

I think the new rules are a step in the right direction and I would much rather pay to see a show of hockey skill than sub-par mma anyday. If I want to watch fighting, I'll go watch proffesional fighting. With a trained referee, proffessional fighters, and a fair fighting environment that doesn't include sticks, blades, jerseys, or equipment. There is nothing more ridiculous than watching two grown men literally try to see who can undress the other first, and pull their Jersey over their head. What is that and when did we start paying to watch it???

Generally, all the rule changes aimed at less concusions means more highlight reals, more skills, more moves, more talent. That's what I expect out of the top hockey league in the world.

Every sport is a game of intimidation.

Why re-invent the wheel on a long established sport by removing a big part of the intimidation?

I'll always think of Getzlaf-Thornton fighting at the dot to kick-off a deciding playoff game.

That is a "staged" fight when you simply overlook the whys.

The series was as intense as you're ever going to see. When 2 #1Cs, non-fighters and team Captains drop 'em at this point, you have to appreciate just how high the passion and intensity levels are.

If you don't let grown men wind down in a respectful (which most are) fight, what do you think they'll do?

Likely something entirely more dangerous by "losing it".

Otherwise a lot of even the most skilled players have to temper playing with the edge that makes them so good.

Even Crosby is a very aggressive player.

If we eliminate fighting, where does it stop?

It's an aggressive sport, comparing to mma is laughable.

But with that, and back on track, we don't have a center on any line that is going to intimidate ANYONE.

And like it or not, the pace of some games will be dictated at the dot.

I want Cammy to be the high-scoring sniper, not worrying about a lot more responsibility at C.

A big reason why I want Arnott as a roving C.

We need a big C that stands up to intimidation at the dot and intimidates some of the good young C's.

Arnott's old and I know he is a 12 minute/gm guy, but we have zero toughness at C.

He's likely available cheap as a stop gap and he is definitely what we lack.

Plus, he can serve notice to Backlund/Stajan and others "how-to" with the centers around the league.

I also believe he compliments how Iginla plays on emotion, and he'd be the only forward on the team that comes close to matching.