Sven Baertschi

[C_worthy]

Agree 100% with Zirakzigil. I would like to see Sven developed properly. If that means starting the season in Abby then that's just the way it is. I understand where all the excitement comes from surrounding him, hell we haven't had much to cheer about the past few seasons, but we as fans also have to accept there is a good way and a bad way in developing prospects properly. I'd sooner let him light it up in the AHL for 25-30 games and build confidence then to have him come into the NHL and get knocked around and swallowed up by the speed of the game.

Ultimately we won't know anything until training camp even though management seems to think a roster spot is there for him to lose. If he kills it and proves he deserves the spot then I am all for it, but if his training camp is less than spectacular I really hope management does the right thing and send him to the Heat.

I have seen more than a few kids' careers ruined because they were rushed and as a result I am a big advocate of patience and proper development.

But Zirak - comparing Baertschi with Backlund is assinine.

And let's be clear here - Baertschi will be 20 when the season starts, not 18. Comparing him to RNH, Skinner and Hall simply isn't applicable. Sure, he is only 5'11" but he is solid, strong on his skates, and manages his position in the corners well.

Most importantly, Baertschi is simply too talented, and his hockey IQ is too high, for a year in Abby to be beneficial. He has already demonstrated twice (camp last year, and when he was called up) that he thinks the game at the NHL level. When he was sent down last year, it took him 2 or 3 games to adjust to playing in the dub because his teammates there simply think the game at a different pace.

I don't know if I can articulate this or not - either you've seen it before and you know what I mean, or you haven't. But here goes: most players progress step by step - they need to spend time at each level and adjust to the speed before they are ready to move on. However, occasionally, players come along who find it easier to play in the NHL than they do the AHL. That is because they think the game at the NHL level and they find that playing with other NHLers is easier because those players also think the game at a higher level. Baertschi is one of those players, plain and simple.

He is physically ready, he is mentally ready, he has more than enough talent, and more then enough hockey smarts. He also will bring that youthful exuberance to the bench that has been so lacking for the last few years. Unless he completely bombs, he will be on the opening night roster. The only question is whether he displaces someone else and earns a top 6 role (though I doubt it, at least not at first) or sarts on the 3rd line.

Sure, if he is struggling 20 games into the season, then send him down. But I think it is more likely that he continues to earn more icetime throughout the season and finishes it with close to 20 goals.

Making lists of who and who hasn't had injuries is pointless. I made a list to show that other teams have let young stars play, and why it's unreasonable to think the Flames shouldn't be included in that category. As for their injuries....welcome to the game of hockey. The injury argument is irrelevant. All hockey players get injuries throughout their playing careers. Heck, my son's team mate had a concussion in Hockey 4 (age 8-9). Not letting a younger player on to the roster because of injury risk is just a very deflated argument.

I don't think this is entirely true - 18 year olds are definitely susceptable to injuries, IMO, because they are not physically ready for the size and speed of the NHL and 82 games.

Having said that, Baertschi will be 20 before this season starts. COMPLETELY different discussion.

[PokernHockey]

Making lists of who and who hasn't had injuries is pointless. I made a list to show that other teams have let young stars play, and why it's unreasonable to think the Flames shouldn't be included in that category. As for their injuries....welcome to the game of hockey. The injury argument is irrelevant. All hockey players get injuries throughout their playing careers. Heck, my son's team mate had a concussion in Hockey 4 (age 8-9). Not letting a younger player on to the roster because of injury risk is just a very deflated argument.

And all of the players you mentioned where other teams let them play had significant injuries in there first few years which will stay with them throughout their careers.

If your son can get injured anyway, are you as willing to let your son play in Hockey 4, as you would be to let him play a full contact game against Chara?

Yes, every player who steps on the ice has injury risk, however the chance of a 19 year old boy getting injured while playing against men at the highest level of hockey is significantly higher then men playing against men.

And no, it's not irrelevant. It's risk management. Give him a year to fill out his frame.

[screenguy76]

I'm on the fence.... As much as I would love to see him come in and take the league by storm, I really believe a year of dominating the AHL would be best for his development. This is the most exciting offensive prospect we've had in years and I just don't want to see him ruined by getting rushed too quickly. If he turns out like Baks (although he still has time, albeit short) I will be pretty upset. Sven seems to have all the tools but if other teams key on him, I'm afraid with his size he could be intimidated rather easily. Depends on his linemates I guess but who in our top 9 are going to watch out for this kid?? Jarome? Maybe Sarich on the back end.

Like I said, I'm on the fence here. I have no doubts he will start with the big team and I also hope he forces the coaches hand and lights it up....

[s4xon]

If your son can get injured anyway, are you as willing to let your son play in Hockey 4, as you would be to let him play a full contact game against Chara?

He's in hockey because he wants to. I'm not going to withhold his passion because I'm a nervous dad who is afraid he'll get injured. Would I be willing to let him play a full contact game against Chara? No because he is 8 years old. If he was 18, 19, or 20 and proved he could play on a roster spot with any team, then yes, bring on Chara, because he proved he can play at that level. That's Hockey.

If the rest of the League's brass felt the way you did about your definition of "Risk Management" then the rules would be set forth to have the minimum age at 21 to let them fill their frames. But the fact is they don't. If you don't agree, then call Shanahan and ask if he has an assistant director of player safety position open.

[TrippinVdUb]

I'm on the fence.... As much as I would love to see him come in and take the league by storm, I really believe a year of dominating the AHL would be best for his development. This is the most exciting offensive prospect we've had in years and I just don't want to see him ruined by getting rushed too quickly. If he turns out like Baks (although he still has time, albeit short) I will be pretty upset. Sven seems to have all the tools but if other teams key on him, I'm afraid with his size he could be intimidated rather easily. Depends on his linemates I guess but who in our top 9 are going to watch out for this kid?? Jarome? Maybe Sarich on the back end.

Like I said, I'm on the fence here. I have no doubts he will start with the big team and I also hope he forces the coaches hand and lights it up....

intimidated? not a chance, this kid traveled half way across the world to come play hockey in the most physical jr league in the world at 17 years old, every game he shows up and plays with grit and heart. Sven is not going to be intimidated now that hes making it to the big show. I for one think leaving him in the AHL aka goon leauge would be a hindrance to his development. I understand why some one else would disagree with me here but this kid has all the tools to make the leap NOW!

[C_worthy]

intimidated? not a chance, this kid traveled half way across the world to come play hockey in the most physical jr league in the world at 17 years old, every game he shows up and plays with grit and heart. Sven is not going to be intimidated now that hes making it to the big show. I for one think leaving him in the AHL aka goon leauge would be a hindrance to his development. I understand why some one else would disagree with me here but this kid has all the tools to make the leap NOW!

Exactly. The only way he should end up in the A is if he takes a big step backwards and his confidence wanes - which seems like a pretty low probability at this point.

[Kulstad]

Here's the no-right-answer question/snowflake that starts the avalanche:

So, Z... What issues do you see with Baertschi that make him that much different than others that have made the grade?

Here's the response/innocent snow-packed mountain top:

Consistency, defensive play, size. It could be a lot of things. Our roster is overall pretty soft and smallish. The Flames could feel after X number of games that its just not worth the risk of serious injury having him play and get knocked around like Hall has the past few years. Without seeing the starting line up its hard to say. Heck he could go cold and not get any points for a long streak and get sent down. The kids 19, Im not expecting big things from him for 2-3 years at the least.

Here's the resulting shift in the snow pack:

Those are 2 things that have been showcased by the young Swiss. Who else do you know in the NHL's prospect pool that averages 2 points a game even after a season changing concussion?

The defensive play was evident in his call up last year. He was back-checking every shift. The Flames' drive and compete was heightened when he made the jump into the roster those 5 games. When he left, the team deflated and continued their spotty losing streak.

As for getting knocked around, he's a smart kid. Hall was a number 1 pick. So was RNH, so was Crosby. These guys have a target on their back because they are number 1 picks. It comes with the territory. If teams were worried about having their prospects hit, there wouldn't be any progression to the NHL until they were 25 and fully grown.

...and here's the resulting avalanche:

everything everyone says to ZZ in regards to his opinion/response

Zirak, I am disappointed in you. You didn't see this blatant setup?!?

I fully believe Sven has the tools and skills to be in the NHL. However, just because you CAN do something, doesn't mean you SHOULD do something. Sven had an accellerated introduction to professional hockey. Like any young kid with NHL stars in his eyes, he made everything he could of the opportunity....knowing full well it was only going to be for a short time.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. The right way to make sure this kid is a logn-term superstar is to introduce him slowly to the professional pace, and let him do so with confidence:

• Let him replicate his big-number points in the AHL, it would do wonders for his confidence at the professional level.
• Put him on the "first person we call in case of injuries" list (god knows we always have enough injuries every season), and that just gives him that much more incentive.
• Give Feaster & Co. more time to find the "big body bruisers with skill" to surround Sven with. Right now, Feaster has 2 months to find this elusive person/people. Putting Sven in the "A" for awhile gives management more time to find the "Dave Semenko intimidator with Sidney Crosby skill" (if it even exists, but that would be a dream come true) to surround him with, to ensure longevity and sustained success in the NHL (the two things this team has needed more than anything).

[oldschool17]

Question:

If Baertchi does end up playing in the big club (and everyone can agree/disagree about that happening but Feaster has gone on record saying the spot is his to lose) he could end up being in contention for Rookie of the Year considerations. Cervenka is considered a rookie too is he not?

Of they both had stellar years it would be awesome to have them competing for that honor. Them we are one possibly two rookies away from what the Oilers are doing without the losing part:-)

Question:

If Baertchi does end up playing in the big club (and everyone can agree/disagree about that happening but Feaster has gone on record saying the spot is his to lose) he could end up being in contention for Rookie of the Year considerations. Cervenka is considered a rookie too is he not?

Of they both had stellar years it would be awesome to have them competing for that honor. Them we are one possibly two rookies away from what the Oilers are doing without the losing part:-)

[successfulblackman]

Question:

If Baertchi does end up playing in the big club (and everyone can agree/disagree about that happening but Feaster has gone on record saying the spot is his to lose) he could end up being in contention for Rookie of the Year considerations. Cervenka is considered a rookie too is he not?

Of they both had stellar years it would be awesome to have them competing for that honor. Them we are one possibly two rookies away from what the Oilers are doing without the losing part:-)

Question:

If Baertchi does end up playing in the big club (and everyone can agree/disagree about that happening but Feaster has gone on record saying the spot is his to lose) he could end up being in contention for Rookie of the Year considerations. Cervenka is considered a rookie too is he not?

Of they both had stellar years it would be awesome to have them competing for that honor. Them we are one possibly two rookies away from what the Oilers are doing without the losing part:-)

only sven could get the award. Roman may be too old

[Tirosho24]

only sven could get the award. Roman may be too old

You have to be 26 or younger by September 15 of that season.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calder_Memorial_Trophy

I believe Roman is 27, so not eligible.

Edit: he turns 27 this December, so he is 26. He should be eligible.

[screenguy76]

intimidated? not a chance, this kid traveled half way across the world to come play hockey in the most physical jr league in the world at 17 years old, every game he shows up and plays with grit and heart. Sven is not going to be intimidated now that hes making it to the big show. I for one think leaving him in the AHL aka goon leauge would be a hindrance to his development. I understand why some one else would disagree with me here but this kid has all the tools to make the leap NOW!

Seriously? You are comparing coming over as a teenager and playing against kids your own age to playing as a 19 year old kid against grown men? I'm as excited as most but lets be realistic. Unless he gets top 6 minutes, his time will be better served in the AHL getting 18-20 mins a game.

intimidated? not a chance, this kid traveled half way across the world to come play hockey in the most physical jr league in the world at 17 years old, every game he shows up and plays with grit and heart. Sven is not going to be intimidated now that hes making it to the big show. I for one think leaving him in the AHL aka goon leauge would be a hindrance to his development. I understand why some one else would disagree with me here but this kid has all the tools to make the leap NOW!

Seriously? You are comparing coming over as a teenager and playing against kids your own age to playing as a 19 year old kid against grown men? I'm as excited as most but lets be realistic. Unless he gets top 6 minutes, his time will be better served in the AHL getting 18-20 mins a game.

[PokernHockey]

Seriously? You are comparing coming over as a teenager and playing against kids your own age to playing as a 19 year old kid against grown men? I'm as excited as most but lets be realistic. Unless he gets top 6 minutes, his time will be better served in the AHL getting 18-20 mins a game.

to be fair, there are more 18 year olds in NHL then there are in the AHL. So either way he is playing against grown men.

But the AHL grown men are not quite as fast, big, skilled, etc.

[DirtyDeeds]

to be fair, there are more 18 year olds in NHL then there are in the AHL. So either way he is playing against grown men.

But the AHL grown men are not quite as fast, big, skilled, etc.

Did you know the reason is because there is a 20 year old minimum restriction to play in the AHL? Only a select few can bypass that regulation.

[Ring-a-ding-dong-dandy]

There's a thread on HF (started by a Flames fan) wondering about Sven for Couturier.

Any thoughts?

I started that one here a while back and it didn't go over well, but I still like the idea.

[oldschool17]

I started that one here a while back and it didn't go over well, but I still like the idea.

As do I. He's a big talented Centre and while I am a HUGE Sven fan, and I am excited to see how Baertchi works out, we NEED a big young C and it would solve a lot of lineup issues and with Couts already showing a lot of talent he could be a legitimate #1. A line of Cammy/Tangs -Couts-Iggy looks awesome. More importantly a line of Cammy/Couts/Hudler as our second line and becoming our first line in a couple years shows promise.

[cross16]

I to would do Sven For Couterier. Wouldn't even think twice about it.

[TrippinVdUb]

Seriously? You are comparing coming over as a teenager and playing against kids your own age to playing as a 19 year old kid against grown men? I'm as excited as most but lets be realistic. Unless he gets top 6 minutes, his time will be better served in the AHL getting 18-20 mins a game.

Seriously? You are comparing coming over as a teenager and playing against kids your own age to playing as a 19 year old kid against grown men? I'm as excited as most but lets be realistic. Unless he gets top 6 minutes, his time will be better served in the AHL getting 18-20 mins a game.

No Im not comparing the too experiences, Im merely saying that after all he has done so far to push his career forward and realize his dream of playing in the NHL, hes not gonna tuck his tail between his legs while the goal is with reach. I watched this kid play in whl allot this year and all through the playoffs, he is ready for prime-time.

Besides the AHL is a league littered with reject goons sitting around waiting to get a call to the big show. He has a better chance of getting hurt down there were reckless penalty's are more common!

[KidKappa]

Why doesn't Sven have a sliding contract? Just need an explanation of how those work.

[Crzydrvr]

Why doesn't Sven have a sliding contract? Just need an explanation of how those work.

Those only work while the player in question is still in junior. Now that it's basically guaranteed that he'll be spending the year at the pro level, his contract doesn't slide anymore, since the contract applied only to professional games, and the juniors aren't a pro league, the contract doesn't come into effect, which is why you see "sliders", or players who are junior-eligible and have pro contracts that don't activate.

[s4xon]

Base on his performances at the Dub level, would you classify this young stud as a playmaker or a sniper? Quite frankly, he can do both. I see more of a playmaker because he utilizes his line very well. And we all know the kid can bury the puck. Thoughts?

[Robindr]

Consistency, defensive play, size. It could be a lot of things. Our roster is overall pretty soft and smallish. The Flames could feel after X number of games that its just not worth the risk of serious injury having him play and get knocked around like Hall has the past few years. Without seeing the starting line up its hard to say. Heck he could go cold and not get any points for a long streak and get sent down. The kids 19, Im not expecting big things from him for 2-3 years at the least.

Put him on a line with Iginla!

Baertschi, Cammalleri, Iginla (the enforcer, lol)

Tanguay, Cervenka, Hudler

Glencross, Stajan/Backlund, Stempniak

Bouma, Jones, Jackman/ Comeau

[Zirakzigil]

Zirak, I am disappointed in you. You didn't see this blatant setup?!?

I could care less actually. People are always up in arms about my predictions of players because they tend to be a lot more accurate then most fans optomistic biased views.

I firmly believe barring injury or a terrible preseason that Sven will start the year with the team. He will be given every chance to succeed at an NHL level with the Flames. It would not suprise me to see him play the whole season in the NHL, just like it wont suprise me if he has some time in the AHL. The guy is only a kid. There will be ups and downs with his play until he fully develops. People expecting 30 goals and him to be an offensive force in his first full year need to tone down their expectations.

[nwmikaelib]

People that think Sven won't succeed JUST because he's so young I think are not looking at the picture in full view. Just look at all the young guns in the NHL today. Sure maybe they get more ice time or opportunities, but Sven is a very special player and he will be a cornerstone of this franchise for years to come. He will get every opportunity to succeed next season and I believe he will excel. If he doesn't, so be it. Based on what I saw last season. The kid has more skill than half the people on the team, and an insane work ethic. You don't need to be a giant to tear it up in the NHL either. I think he's ready for the jump, I won't be surprised if he is a Calder winner and a 60 point scorer, but i also won't be surprised if he gets no more than 40 points. You never know.

[Robindr]

People that think Sven won't succeed JUST because he's so young I think are not looking at the picture in full view. Just look at all the young guns in the NHL today. Sure maybe they get more ice time or opportunities, but Sven is a very special player and he will be a cornerstone of this franchise for years to come. He will get every opportunity to succeed next season and I believe he will excel. If he doesn't, so be it. Based on what I saw last season. The kid has more skill than half the people on the team, and an insane work ethic. You don't need to be a giant to tear it up in the NHL either. I think he's ready for the jump, I won't be surprised if he is a Calder winner and a 60 point scorer, but i also won't be surprised if he gets no more than 40 points. You never know.

How many years did it take players like the "Sedin Sisters" to play up to their potential? The same goes with Kesler. Even Joe Thornton was given up on by Boston because he wasn't fully living up to his worth. Maybe Thornton's a bad example. But how many players hover around 30-50 points for about 4-5 seasons before the explode? The only thing I am worried about is, whether we get the players to surround talents like Baertschi.

In my view, if he peaks at 55-60pts per, I am ok with that. It's what you do (the little things) to win that counts in my books, and how well the rest of the team plays as a team. It's the pieces to the puzzle that matter most, and that's what the organization failed to do with Iginla, get the pieces that fit.

[successfulblackman]

People that think Sven won't succeed JUST because he's so young I think are not looking at the picture in full view. Just look at all the young guns in the NHL today. Sure maybe they get more ice time or opportunities, but Sven is a very special player and he will be a cornerstone of this franchise for years to come. He will get every opportunity to succeed next season and I believe he will excel. If he doesn't, so be it. Based on what I saw last season. The kid has more skill than half the people on the team, and an insane work ethic. You don't need to be a giant to tear it up in the NHL either. I think he's ready for the jump, I won't be surprised if he is a Calder winner and a 60 point scorer, but i also won't be surprised if he gets no more than 40 points. You never know.

that's something that can't be taught, and that's what make sven a special player in my books. How many players are out there that never made it to their fullest potential because they lacked work ethic??? work ethic can turn a player with a low skill level into a player who can dominate all aspects of the game. sven has skill, speed, and work ethic. That's an A+