Sven Baertschi

[mikid]

I agree with Zatch. In my opinion he will make a team. But he has to play, I would give him a chance in opening night to show everybody that this is a place where he belongs.

[s4xon]

I agree with Zatch. In my opinion he will make a team. But he has to play, I would give him a chance in opening night to show everybody that this is a place where he belongs.

Baertschi's skill level isn't far off of RNH's. Drafted in the same round with only 11 picks between them, I don't hold much disregard for Baertschi's ability to play in the big leagues. I fully expect someone to fire up a post about how RNH is an elite player, how Baertschi doesn't match up, etc. But the reality is, RNH was given a full season with the NHL right out of his draft year. Baertschi was held back. Whether it was for development, or to give them another year to clear the deadweight contracts from the roster before burning a year of his contract is beyond my knowlege. If given a full season, I see point production very similar between the two talents.

The major differences between the two, in my belief, will be with the ice time. RNH is a first/second line forward with the Oilers because their current rebuild situation, lack of experienced players, and depth of talent within the roster. Unless the Flames brass see a huge impact early on in the season with Baertschi's point production, I don't see much room for him on the first and second lines in Calgary (this year). Pending he makes the team.

[cross16]

What I think this boils down to is: Horrendous Path VS Proper/Secure Progression. While there is very little question that Sven has the talent, but as we've seen with so many other players, rushing to the team because he's "the annointed one" isn't always a good thing. I'm onside with CD here...put him in Abbotsford. Not because he doesn't deserve to be on the big team, but because we absolutely cannot afford to screw up with him.

Sure he got a taste of the NHL last season, but that was only for 5 games.

Yes, he scored 3 goals and looked right at home, but who wouldn't look like a superstar with all the excitement pumping through them like that.

Let him dip his toes into the pool before he goes diving off the high-dive. Troy Ward will bring him up right on the farm, and he'll get to see what "men" are like to play against for a full season without destroying his confidence. He'll get his chances with the big boys this season, but let's get his education and indoctrination off on the right foot because it's the right thing to do, and not rush him to the NHL just because we want him there.

I completely agree you don't want to rush him and that's what i'm saying is he proves himself not ready in camp then don't put him on the roster. I happen to believe he is NHL ready and that's why I think the NHL is the place for him, he is ready for that level of competition and doesn't need the AHL seasoning. I don't think it is rushing him becuase he is smart enough, confident enough, and smart enough defensivly to learn at the NHL level. If he proves me wrong at camp than absolutly put him in the AHL but as of now I don't see anything that will prvent him from being in the NHL and not becuase that's where I want him but because that's where I think he is best served.

[jjgallow]

Baertschi comes into this season as a Calder Cup candidate, imho.

As things left off last season, I'm confident that Baertschi was superior to Yakupov. Time will tell if that is because of their age difference, or because of talent.

The biggest concern I have is actually injuries. Hopefully, Baertschi comes into this season with a bit more toughness that will be needed for an 82-game schedule in the NHL.

My second biggest concern is that we'll have a lockout...

Very last on my list of concerns is whether we'll have a roster spot for Baertschi. Now is his time. All the other left-wingers, with the exception of Cammalleri and Tanguay, should be more concerned than Baertschi about getting a spot on the roster. And both of those guys may end up spending time at center.

[successfulblackman]

If there isn't room, let him play line one minutes with the Heat. Develop him for one more year, he'll be ready next year for sure.

Can they do that? I thought that you have to he 20 to play in the AHL full time.

not sure who you meant by Blake but..... Like this...

Tanguay/Cammaleri/Iginla

Glencross/Cervenka/Hudler

Baertchi/Backlund or Stajan/Stempniak

Comeau/Jones/Jackman

And

Aliu/Horak/Bouma

Keeps all of them competing for spots. Wingers are interchangeable, size, speed skill and toughness on each line arguably, and plenty of guys in abbots ford looking to have a chance. Only thing we are REALLY missing is a #1 C but who knows how Cervenka, Cammy Backlund or Stajan will step up.

Don't count on Cammy playing centre. I bet that jay is looking to acquire a 1/2 role centre.

[oldschool17]

Can they do that? I thought that you have to he 20 to play in the AHL full time.

Umm they let 18 year olds play in the NHL but they have to be 20 to play in AHL? No.

[Crzydrvr]

Can they do that? I thought that you have to he 20 to play in the AHL full time.

Umm they let 18 year olds play in the NHL but they have to be 20 to play in AHL? No.

Players who were playing in North America must be 20 years old during the season UNLESS they are on a PTO contract. And Tryout contracts only last a few games at most. The AHL doesn't allow 18 and 19 year olds who played junior in North America to be full time players on an AHL roster, whereas the NHL's only age limit is that you must be a certified legal adult before you can dress for a game.

But the AHL considers a player who is TURNING 20 before the end of the calendar year to be 20 years old, thus, overagers like Sven Baertschi for example (who was born in October) are eligible to play in the AHL despite not being 20 at the start of the season.

That's why most 18 year old prospects have only two options: make the NHL team or go back to junior. The only exception to the AHL's 20 year old rule are Europeans who had not skated in North America prior to attending an NHL team's training camp. As long as they never played in a North American junior league they are eligible for the AHL. Which is why a guy like Nikita Filatov was allowed to play as an 18 year old for Columbus' farm system.

[successfulblackman]

Umm they let 18 year olds play in the NHL but they have to be 20 to play in AHL? No.

UMMM I under stand that you are new here, but you should try looking up your information before you make yourself look like a total noob, when you're trying to prove you have intellect.

[oldschool17]

Players who were playing in North America must be 20 years old during the season UNLESS they are on a PTO contract. And Tryout contracts only last a few games at most. The AHL doesn't allow 18 and 19 year olds who played junior in North America to be full time players on an AHL roster, whereas the NHL's only age limit is that you must be a certified legal adult before you can dress for a game.

But the AHL considers a player who is TURNING 20 before the end of the calendar year to be 20 years old, thus, overagers like Sven Baertschi for example (who was born in October) are eligible to play in the AHL despite not being 20 at the start of the season.

That's why most 18 year old prospects have only two options: make the NHL team or go back to junior. The only exception to the AHL's 20 year old rule are Europeans who had not skated in North America prior to attending an NHL team's training camp. As long as they never played in a North American junior league they are eligible for the AHL. Which is why a guy like Nikita Filatov was allowed to play as an 18 year old for Columbus' farm system.

I stand corrected. Thanks

[Flyerfan52]

UMMM I under stand that you are new here, but you should try looking up your information before you make yourself look like a total noob, when you're trying to prove you have intellect.

He asked a question to gain knowledge from people that could answer because they know the regulations. A putdown doesn't help him gain that.

Admitting you don't know something & wanting to learn is something to encourage. It sure beats know it all types that post their misunderstood assumptions believing they are right.

There are 2 good ways to learn. 1 is by f-ing up until you get it right. The less painful is to seek input from someone that knows.

*Asking sure beats wading through all the legalese in the CBA. (TG I have PK as a resource because she actually read the dang thing rather then snippets & has an understanding some GMs don't seem to.)*

[successfulblackman]

I stand corrected. Thanks

no you said that all players that are 18 can play in the ahl

[Crzydrvr]

no you said that all players that are 18 can play in the ahl

He said he stands corrected. That means he acknowledges that I was right and thanked me in turn for clarifying the proper definitions.

For a guy who supposedly pulled up amazing grades in English, you sure haven't proven it on this board. Wouldn't this be part of the "comprehension" section of your final exams?

[Wreckening]

He asked a question to gain knowledge from people that could answer because they know the regulations. A putdown doesn't help him gain that.

Admitting you don't know something & wanting to learn is something to encourage. It sure beats know it all types that post their misunderstood assumptions believing they are right.

There are 2 good ways to learn. 1 is by f-ing up until you get it right. The less painful is to seek input from someone that knows.

*Asking sure beats wading through all the legalese in the CBA. (TG I have PK as a resource because she actually read the dang thing rather then snippets & has an understanding some GMs don't seem to.)*

Plus 1 to you sir. Thankfully there are people like yourself on this board who know how to treat people with respect.

[oldschool17]

Plus 1 to you sir. Thankfully there are people like yourself on this board who know how to treat people with respect.

Thank you as well for the above gentlemen. I was asking a question as the rules as far as AHL contracts are new to me. I apologize for any miscommunication. I do most of my posts from my phone as my job keeps me busy so your respect and understanding I appreciated. Thanks for the clarification as well.

In any case, I don't know if holding Baer down in the minors is the best idea. A youthful and energetic personality and player in the dressing room is exactly what this team may need for a better start. And with little time remaing for him to apprentice under Iggy my thoughts are take advantage of the time we have. He's shown he has the talent and enthusiasm and hockey IQ to learn quickly an fit in.

[PokernHockey]

Can they do that? I thought that you have to he 20 to play in the AHL full time.

Umm they let 18 year olds play in the NHL but they have to be 20 to play in AHL? No.

UMMM I under stand that you are new here, but you should try looking up your information before you make yourself look like a total noob, when you're trying to prove you have intellect.

Various people telling Successfulblackman off.

Admitting you don't know something & wanting to learn is something to encourage. It sure beats know it all types that post their misunderstood assumptions believing they are right. ..

I think successfulblackman's issue was with the fact that he read oldschool17's initial reply initially in a condescending fashion. Combine that with the fact that it is wrong, (doing exactly what I bolded in FF52s post), I am guessing that his reply was more to the first "what are you an idiot, you think he has to be older to play in the inferior league" (at least that is how I read it initially) more so then the later "thanks for correcting me"... I'm sure you didn't mean it like that oldschool17 based on your later comments, but I am guessing that is what got the reaction. At least I hope that is what it was.

Two wrongs don't make a right, but as long as I am not putting words in someone's mouth, I think that is the confusion on this one.

Four rules to remember

1)Questions: good

2)Being a jerk when someone asks one: bad.

3)Being interpreted as a jerk because you believe unless your team won the cup that year or tried to get the first overall pick your team is missmanaged: Oilers fan.

4)Being a jerk while being incorrect: Canucks fan.

Everyone agreed?

Now you kids kiss and make up.

[PokernHockey]

To add to that before I get flamed by various "helpful" resident trolls (Anni, DL44 for example) there are exceptions to rules 3 and 4.

[DirtyDeeds]

Umm they let 18 year olds play in the NHL but they have to be 20 to play in AHL? No.

For the record if I had been asked I would have said the 20 yrs of age min for AHL would kick in. In fact this was covered recently in another thread where this European exception to the rules was brought up.

As for the obvious idiots who gave you a few -'s for asking I will give you a +1 and lower that a tad for you.

[oldschool17]

I think successfulblackman's issue was with the fact that he read oldschool17's initial reply initially in a condescending fashion. Combine that with the fact that it is wrong, (doing exactly what I bolded in FF52s post), I am guessing that his reply was more to the first "what are you an idiot, you think he has to be older to play in the inferior league" (at least that is how I read it initially) more so then the later "thanks for correcting me"... I'm sure you didn't mean it like that oldschool17 based on your later comments, but I am guessing that is what got the reaction. At least I hope that is what it was.

Two wrongs don't make a right, but as long as I am not putting words in someone's mouth, I think that is the confusion on this one.

Four rules to remember

1)Questions: good

2)Being a jerk when someone asks one: bad.

3)Being interpreted as a jerk because you believe unless your team won the cup that year or tried to get the first overall pick your team is missmanaged: Oilers fan.

4)Being a jerk while being incorrect: Canucks fan.

Everyone agreed?

Now you kids kiss and make up.

Hahahahah awesome

[TrippinVdUb]

To add to that before I get flamed by various "helpful" resident trolls (Anni, DL44 for example) there are exceptions to rules 3 and 4.

Not many!!!

[oldschool17]

For the record if I had been asked I would have said the 20 yrs of age min for AHL would kick in. In fact this was covered recently in another thread where this European exception to the rules was brought up.

As for the obvious idiots who gave you a few -'s for asking I will give you a +1 and lower that a tad for you.

Thank you Deeds. And thanks for clearing up. I do have another question for you, is there a link you could show me or explain how contracts work against the Cap on players going up, or down. I.e if Backlund plays in the minors all year do we receive a hit, or when a player is placed on waivers(and that to my understanding is when a player who is on a one way contract is sent down) does that still count on our cap. I thought I understood this but recently I'm somewhat less certain and I'm only on my phone

[successfulblackman]

He said he stands corrected. That means he acknowledges that I was right and thanked me in turn for clarifying the proper definitions.

For a guy who supposedly pulled up amazing grades in English, you sure haven't proven it on this board. Wouldn't this be part of the "comprehension" section of your final exams?

for a greybeard you certainly lack lack wisdom, and intellect. I obviously thought he was being sarcastic. this is the internet, and it is very hard to tell when people are being sarcastic, so I apologise oldschool17.

[successfulblackman]

I think successfulblackman's issue was with the fact that he read oldschool17's initial reply initially in a condescending fashion. Combine that with the fact that it is wrong, (doing exactly what I bolded in FF52s post), I am guessing that his reply was more to the first "what are you an idiot, you think he has to be older to play in the inferior league" (at least that is how I read it initially) more so then the later "thanks for correcting me"... I'm sure you didn't mean it like that oldschool17 based on your later comments, but I am guessing that is what got the reaction. At least I hope that is what it was.

Two wrongs don't make a right, but as long as I am not putting words in someone's mouth, I think that is the confusion on this one.

Four rules to remember

1)Questions: good

2)Being a jerk when someone asks one: bad.

3)Being interpreted as a jerk because you believe unless your team won the cup that year or tried to get the first overall pick your team is missmanaged: Oilers fan.

4)Being a jerk while being incorrect: Canucks fan.

Everyone agreed?

Now you kids kiss and make up.

sure

[Crzydrvr]

for a greybeard you certainly lack lack wisdom, and intellect. I obviously thought he was being sarcastic. this is the internet, and it is very hard to tell when people are being sarcastic, so I apologise oldschool17.

I haven't even graduated from university and I'm already a greybeard? Damn, the age cutoff line must be getting lower by the minute. Oh well, I can ease into retirement watching reruns of my old favorites like "Samurai Jack" and "Dexter's Laboratory" now.

Just in case, here's a "/sarcasm" for you so you don't take it literally. Just because I'm articulate doesn't automatically make me old.

@oldschool, one-way hits, if said player is subject to waivers and is sent down and passes through waivers, are negated from the current team's cap hit (i.e. Wade Redden). I'm not totally sure on this but as long as that player is playing in the AHL and not the NHL, the cap hit should be knocked off his NHL team's books. Of course, many teams dislike the idea of paying an AHLer 6M per season which is why the "re-entry" rules exist, to give the team a chance to save some money and get rid of unwanted contracts.

All a one-way contract does is ensure the player gets paid the same regardless of where he's playing. That's it. Oftentimes people confuse that with "waiver-eligibility" but waivers run under a different category. Which is why even some two-way contracted players can be subject to waivers.

[Zatch]

What has this board come too. I remember joining way back when everyone was actually nice to each other as Flames fans.

Anyways, back to the topic! Baertschi is allowed to play in the AHL this season because of the early birth-date. I think it would be wise to get him playing professional top line minutes with the AHL for one or two more seasons until there is a LW spot on our top six.

Honestly, with Cammy and Tangs (Correct my if I'm wrong, but I think Cammy has two years left at that six mill hit, and Tangs got four years left with that cap hit of ? Mill hit) locked up for a few more seasons I think they should continue to develop him until the Flames have a legitimate roster spot.

I don't want to see Baertschi end up like being in the same situation as Backlund.

[oldschool17]

for a greybeard you certainly lack lack wisdom, and intellect. I obviously thought he was being sarcastic. this is the internet, and it is very hard to tell when people are being sarcastic, so I apologise oldschool17.

No worries bud. Thanks.