conundrumed
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Posts posted by conundrumed
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Difficult to answer this while staying on topic unfortunately...
Gaudreau is the oldest, and smallest of the three. He's had the most success but I don't consider him the most valuable. At this point in time, anyway. That's not a knock on him. I just have a really high valuation of Monahan and Bennett.
There are some young Defencemen that I would trade for Gaudreau. Coming back on topic.....
Yes, I agree, they are difficult to trade because it's extremely hard to win that trade. For a goalie, it would have to be someone like Matt Murray or better. It Could happen but it's unlikely and I'd think we'd lose that trade.
I would say you're on the wrong track. We have to add strengths. If you add them by removing them, you're chasing your tail.
Gaudreau for Murray? If I'm Pittsburgh, I take that all day everyday.
What young Dmen would you trade Gaudreau for?
He's a ppg player and very dynamic and original. He's described as "worth the price of admission" by many.
Put down the pipe...
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AS I recall you have the history correct. Based on his recent play I believe he should be re-signed and given the shot to compete for the starting job this Fall. His current 0.908 is a compilation of the whole season, he's been better recently.
Just to back you up, because it deserves thought imho.
Ortio thought he had a shot last camp. He played very well, to extremely well.
He was 3rd in the 3 headed monster.
So BT says, "we didn't like his effort in practice".
So he clears waivers, does meh in the A.
Truth be told, that sounds like a goalie to me.
As far as I'm concerned, if my goalie doesn't feel defeated by that, I don't want him on my team.
Ortio's dealt with it. The seat is wide open.
The meaningless games argument...meh...do you think they're meaningless to Ortio?
For a laugh,
If I'm BH next year and Ortio has a dumb game, just threaten him with bringing in 2 more goalies haha.
I believe Ortio will have a great summer.
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I think we can shred Ortio 6 ways from Sunday.
But at the end of the day, we've been holding him back from being our starter.
Funny we started the season with 3 goalies. What was the point? Ortio never had a shot.
If we learned anything about the position this year, I hope it's that you can't keep them on a highwire. One bad loss and your out.
We waived Ramo, pretty much based on nothing outside of Gio and Hamilton were painful.
Hopefully next year, we treat the people that play the position with some form of dignity.
They aren't skaters, it's a whole different mindset, stop pretending it's not...
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And conundrumed asked:
Goalie
RW
D
Backup Goalie
LW
That equals cash, we don't have enough for all.
Why is LW 5th?
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Hiller was supposed to be that patch. He was the experienced goaltender to bridge the gap until the Prospects were ready. Last season he played well enough to be considered the goalie again this year too.
So I disagree with you that the Flames have not put a concerted effort into looking and acquiring a "patch". They did and came up with Hiller.
Instead of waiting for Ortio to step up to the plate and take the starter's role away we simply just can't wait. We need a true starter next season. We can't count on Ortio or Ramo or anyone else to step up, so we have to get one.
If Ortio does step up or Gilles down the road then great, we have assets to juggle and play with at that time. If they still falter for any reason, then to not have the starter in our fold would be a huge mistake. It would cost us another season maybe more.
I am willing to put up some good young players and picks and prospects(Backlund?? 2nd round picks?) to get us a true #1 JJ. I am not talking overpaying if the right #1 goaltender can be found.
for example: Bishop I would pay a lot for. He is elite among tops in the league, big big body, and in his prime. I don't think he will be affected too much by the new equipment sizes.
I think I'm agreeing, in that, if we want goaltending, we have to be prepared to pay for it.
I'm thinking maybe that's after next year.
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I actually agree with this part too, he isn't ready to be a true starter. It's definitely a projection for him now, though.
IMHO, had the Flames handled goaltender development better these last few years, he Could likely be ready to be a starter right now.
I just don't see why the Flames would choose Now to look for a true #1.
they honestly haven't made Any real concerted effort at sourcing a true #1 since Kipper left. It's been patches the whole way.
Except....can they honestly find a patch, now, that's going to play better than Ortio anyway?
He's in that grey area. Where if you choose a Another half-measure, you know Ortio will probably take it from them anyway.
And to be honest, I don't think the Flames are going to find that true #1. At a reasonable cost.
So why bother?
Stop hitting enter twice after each sentence lol.
I sure wouldn't argue the point though.
It goes both ways.
Ward, Andersson et. al.
Those aren't answers, they're prayers.
I'm on the fence, I really don't know.
We need wingers, do we need them before G or no?
I'm almost of the mind of, "prioritize the wings".
But many are so hung up on, "we'll draft next yrs #1 RW". The expectation will be ridiculous.
Do you prioritize:
Goalie
Wing
?
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I myself am a little worried Ortio will steal a game for the Flames lol
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Would Evan Fitzpatrick be a good idea with one of our seconds? Keep the goalie pipeline loaded?
2-3 years away from our system?
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I do not understand the decision to nominate Jonas into this match. Ok, have a goalkeeper who will not be with team next season and has been struggling lately. So we put "sleepig B-team" and let goalie get caught in a proper thrashing - from his original team (one of best NHL teams right now)? Or it was oportunity to play in Honda Center again? We allready know, that Ducks can paly against Hiller well and Flames can´t win here... Realy don´t understand
. In games against the Kings he always served good performances. If coach wanted to give him the opportunity, this would be a good match
.I agree.
Is it really necessary to shred every last ounce of dignity he has?
I thought it was ignoble from the moment it was announced, and it remained so.
We know we're not signing him, so what is the point we're trying to make at this juncture, that we hate his guts??
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That is a given, we need to clear out a lot of redundant salary otherwise you likely can't even consider Hamonic.
Why consider Hamonic whether we can or not?
Has no one noticed that our forward ranks are a very rickety scaffold that needs the attention?
Oh. here's Hamilton, oh, you want Hamonic too, no problem.
boarding that, hey forwards, here's Ryan Johannson.
Done with the D spending, Wideman or not.
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They've shown that they could play D from time to time lately, with all of those 2-1 Ortio losses. I do like it more lately, but I still think we have a long way to go. A good mobile shutdown in the Top4 would be perfect. This is why I wanted Hamonic, even at the expense of a Hamilton.
Do you think Hamilton will be a lot like JBo?
I just feel like we have a lot of mobile puck movers that we could use someone who is a bit more defensive.
I really don't think Hamilton will be like JBo in the O end, but likely will in the D end. He relies on reach and positioning because he is not physical, which people like to view negatively, but I don't so much.
What happened this yr came right out of camp to preseason and into the season start.
What happened last year? Hot start builds confidence.
What happened this year? The D was downright atrocious, starting with the Captain.
I watched camp and preseason games. Who did I feel most sorry for? Nakladl. He was hung out to dry with everyone of our "regulars". He was likely our best dman, but because everyone was so O-minded, he looked like our worst by stats.
In particular Gio looked horrid. Russell could not stop outletting into traffic, Wideman looked slower than he normally is, Gio was breaking the D zone far too early.
Hamilton was breaking too early too, he gets a pass, because he wasn't a forward in Boston, yet we got waaay overzealous in busting out dmen.
So all of that played into our goalies. You get a good start to the season, confidence builds across the board, like last season.
You don't, and EVERYONE starts 2nd-guessing themselves, like a disease.
Hartley kept forcing it imho, and did more harm than good. But the 1 thing I hold against Hartley is not giving Nakladl a chance.
He has a bomb and he's physical, much better than Wideman because he's stable on D. Even in scant call-ups, he'd watch from the pressbox.
No doubt in my mind he has the hardest shot on the roster, and his D doesn't hurt you.
I saw that in preseason, we're only seeing it now. I have a big problem with that.
Always given, never earned...
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As a point of class, my hat goes off to Backstrom, he's had a sensational career on a team that went through countless tough times. But with him in net, they were never a pushover.
Injuries did him no favours on a team bottlenecked with goalies.
He was never drafted, but when signed and forced into the starting role, he was 4 years of epic.
He pushed Kipper to the brink of "who is the best Finnish goalie".
I think it was due to this that the Flames and Wild had epic battles.
So truth be told, I do not mind him getting starts with us to close it out. In his prime, he could be devastating.
And another truth be told, do we really think Ortio would have done better vs a much better roster than ours?
One of the big surprises this year imho, "why are the Wild fighting for a playoff spot this late"?
I believe there isn't a top side in the West that is going to be happy with a 1st round Wild matchup.
Regardless, kudos to Backstrom for his good faith and positive attitude in trying.
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So a summary of the last two games.:
Hartley: "Ok Ortio watch this..."
Backstrom plays.
Hartley: "And that's how you play like a future starter."
Hiller plays.
Hartley: "And that's how you DON"T play. Got it?"
Ortio: "Got it boss."
Hartley: "Now watch what not to do for the rest of the year, I've got some dmen to focus on". lol
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Agreed. Especially considering all the worrying and complaining here about the "schedule" has been wasted energy. Hartley has handled it really well IMO.
Not to suck up, but I'd plus 10 if I could. No one ever wants another Hiller start, but we have to look at what we can take away moving into next year.
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Nakladal looks good playing really sheltered minutes. Throw him with Giordano and chances are he gets murdered.
That exact thing happened in preseason. Gio was an atrocity to start the season, as we well know.
He REALLY crushed Nakladal's preseason when they paired, it wasn't Nakladal, he was hung out to dry by Gio.
Hopefully, it was only the wrong foot at the time and the lead dmen pull him up this time.
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A lot of this thread seems to be posts about backups. Heck, some say go to camp with 3 or more backups & hope we get a 1A/1B tandem.
Backups are easy to find every year but the Flames need is a starter.
Unfortunately goalies are a roll of the dice. Last year's hot hand can cool or get injured. Out of nowhere a Tim Thomas is suddenly "Super Goalie". A Dubnyk goes from 0 to hero.
Even past performance is little indication if hoping for youth. Few Gold Medal goalies on TC live up to anywhere near that. Anyone remember Jeff Glass?
I figure the best bet is to trade for someone with a track record (preferably recent but looking @ Steve Mason since he hit Philly a reclaim can work) & hope his backup develops behind him & takes his job.
We were pretty well gifted Kipper but we can't pin our hopes on that. Play the odds but keep your good luck charms handy.
While I agree with you, I hope I have my math in order here....
We're at about $49mil in cap next year on 15 players (General Fanager), so if we sign JG & Monahan at a realistic $14mil, we're at $63 mil on 17 (10 forwards/7 dmen/0 goalies).
That leaves us at about $8mil.
If my math is wrong, please let me know, because it could well be, I'm not being facetious.
What would Mason take? Conservatively, half I would assume.
$4mil needing a backup (Ortio @ 1). What will Colborne want? Likely 2.
We are up against the cap.
I'm not sure General Fanager keeps Raymond's 3 buried, I'd assume not.
But even then, I hope someone can spell this out to me in that I'm wrong.
Because man oh man, I see a really downside year next year because it looks like cap jail to me without drastic measures.
I KNOW we need a #1, but can we trade Smid's contract for it? lol
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I can't stress enough that nobody is wrong. This is such a big hill that I don't see a "right" answer.
My biggest fear is expensive decisions that might not work out.
Are we talking 3 year contracts for, say, Ward or Reimer?
They're gonna want $5 per minimum. Howard might be the best option tbh, I'd suspect he'd try to prove a point.
Ortio has overseas options that may well offer more than we will, so there's that risk.
Looking at a Montoya or similar provides a bit of stability, but likely not starter consistency.
We have an issue to solve, but I don't see it as one we can solve quickly, nor do I think we should "settle" in the right now.
It's too important of a position to "take what you can get", likely on their terms.
I don't want a panic move, I'd rather have a risky one that costs less, so at least we can solidify other weaknesses.
Call it growing pains.
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He's kinda like Ortio. Hasn't quite put it together to be a true backup. A RFA this summer. Likely to be qualified by STL.
Has played well in games where he looked unbeatable. Followed up with a meh game. On the Oilers, he had to be lights out every night or he would be considered to be the problem. He hasn't played a single game with STL yet, so hard to say what he can do behind a NHL defense.
Either go Ortio or Nillson, not both.
My bad. Read a page listing him as UFA.
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That's part of my point.
Nilsson was playing quite well until Talbot received his new contract.
Then his play started to drop off.
I'm definitely not going to turn this into defending him.
Just looking at options. Many teams find goodness from plucking a backup needing more playing time.
Nilsson checks some of those boxes, really just his 1st yr this yr, has great size and his stats weren't atrocious for a filthy D like Edmonton.
Not comparing him to Bishop, but the size and age vs path have some similarities.
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As far as Ramo goes, we have quite a bit of cutting bait over the next 2 years and a lot of corrections.
Might as well get started...
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Nilsson appears to be similar to Howard, in that he plays at his best, when he feels he is the undisputed # 1.
If there is any stiff competition, both their games appear to suffer.
I have a hard time agreeing with that due to Talbot's salary. The Oilers are going to give Talbot every last opportunity to be their starter.
So Nilsson was up against that. Their wasn't much opportunity for him to win the seat, he is given zero leeway in that situation.
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Anyone think Anders Nilsson is worth a look? 6'5" if you like size, 26yo.
My reasoning is that I'm looking for a goalie that needs a real opportunity
He's never really had a great chance, even with the Oilers, you just know Talbot's contract isn't to be a backup.
His numbers were decent for being on the Oilers, but when Talbot was healthy again, Nilsson was scrubbed.
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There are definitely no easy answers.
I half think Ramo will be re-signed.
It's the cheapest route.
And to stress this once again, we can't chalk up all of our problems to the lowest common denominator, goaltending.
Look at our roster, stop over-rating it.
Rosters made Niemi and Crawford, amongst others.
If we only want 2 yrs on Ward or Reimer....buy more time for ourselves...it'll be costly.
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Well...having just returned from the game, I tend to be an over-thinker.
So, my wonder, Ortio is now seeing a net he can win.
I watched him from close for the first and 3rd (dang johnny's goals at the other end!).
Pucks hit him in the belly button, no rebounds.
The Nashville goals, no one is stopping those. I'm constantly harping that our roster HAS to get better for our goaltending to get better.
That was a shutout for Ortio tonight, but instead, we're overwhelmed in close, again.
Anyone see Colborne's "2-on-1" lol.
He stared at his teammate, it became a 2-on-2, the 2 being on his teammate.
He passed it anyways. He didn't even look at the net *shock*
Stajan was a close second.
But both qualify as the boneheadedest players I've seen.
When Bollig sucks, he just sucks, but he isn't stupid about it.
At any rate, back to goalies, strange breed.
Ortio's smelling the opportunity, probably at last. He looked awfully sound tonight. Even the big Weber sneaking in blast, right in the bellybutton.
Things change. Ortio is playing really well.
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. 
Goaltending
in Flames Talk
Posted
I think we're destined for unknowns in net next year regardless.
Adding a vet doesn't make it known on this team.
Pay the bejesus out of a Bishop and I'll relent that that is actually a lot of what we need until Gillies.
But Ward, Reimer, and other FA goalies will need proof on this squad, not a guaranteed "solved".
I'm a little worried about our trading relationship to PhxArizona myself.
I want zero from them in goaltending, even for Wideman.
No easy answers.