conundrumed
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Posts posted by conundrumed
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Florida is another example of recent memory. Hiller has a habit of letting in a soft goal at bad times and got beat out by 2 different goalies last year for the Ducks, who are one of the top teams in the NHL now. If he got beat out by a rookie in the playoffs last year what makes you think he should be the goalie for the Flames?
I'm more of the mind that Bruce Boudreau made poor decisions with his goaltending last year. With some of the stacked teams he's had in Washington and now Anaheim, you have to start wondering if he's much of a coach in the playoffs.
Everyone knows putting the bulk of what is wrong on your goalies shoulders is just whitewashing other issues, such as being continually out-coached in line-matching.
They made Hiller unwelcomed likely a year too soon at least. But it was no secret Hiller didn't want to sign in Anaheim.
No point pretending Hiller screwed up, Anaheim did. We're just the beneficiaries.
But it's painful to see Hiller just fine back there for 5 out of 6, and get hacked to bits when the team plays like crap, as they did with the Ducks.
Forget pretending what happened in Anaheim was all Hiller not being worth anything, it's simply not true, and we aren't Anaheim, and we're not coached by Boudreau.
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Last night is a perfect example of why the Ducks let Hiller go and why I think the Flames should go with Ramo. But Hiller for whatever reason is Harleys favorite. With Ortio injured its highly unlikely Ramo is traded without another goalie coming back. Seems to just be too many moving parts then to happen at the deadline.
What?
Typical Flames fan, 1 night of misfortune, "that's it, you're a bum".
Go cheer for your glorious Pens, boarding off.
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How awesome was our D in '04?
Juss sayin'.
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This team is missing two things. Elite goal tending, and size. We need the elite goal tending more then we need the size though. I really can't see the flames being competitive with "regular/good goal tending" in the play offs
I'll call bollocks.
You don't know what it takes. Neither do I nor does anyone else.
There isn't a formula, so we might just as well sit on our crowns and not start handing out pamphlets pretending we actualy know, especially the one's doused in negatives.
They've already surprised, I wouldn't jump to say they're out of surprises.
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With Ramo not having a full game in so long, do you play him against the Pens though? As a first game back in a really long time, it could be a tough one to start? But then, when do you start him?
It's all for not now as it looks like Hiller's start. I'd still go Ramo myself, you can't baby this stuff imo. Be it the Pens, Blues or Preds, you can't be afraid to give either of your goalies a hard start, even under hard circumstances.
Hiller has been stalwart, but the only thing it earns him is trust and belief in him. Each win shouldn't be a guaranteed next start. If we get crushed he doesn't get the next start.
Call it semantics, but I wouldn't manage goalies like that.
Call it "reward", but it's pretty disingenuous. As soon as he loses that 4-1 one, he loses his next start. You start creating a backfire that your losses are on the goalie. Also that you burned up your goalies focus when he's playing well, rather than managed it.
Trade Ortio
LOL that's good
Being that it's below my post, was this directed at me? Just seeking clarification, as you didn't quote anyone.
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You know when you have to scroll down to find this thread that goaltending isn't an issue for now. Nothing to say if we aren't complaining lol.
To the point, I'd like to see Ramo in vs the Pens.
Riding the hot hand is a myth, imho.
Hiller was afforded massive rest by Ortio, he's on form.
Keep him there knowing he isn't a camel.
Ramo HAS to get some starts, both of our goalies need to be on form, Hiller earns his days off.
Doing it against the Pens will send more fear into everyone lol.
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I agree with wreckening. Ortio has a ton of positives to take back with him.
It isn't his time yet, he can be proud he got 4 huge W's, and gave the guys a great rest.
Unless there is an injury, he should be in the A and become even more undeniably a top prospect goalie.
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DET appears to be in the market for a GT. Howard was stretchered off last night which looks like a severe groin pull. Their backup GT has been out due to injury since early Nov which leaves them a 3rd string starter and a 4th string backup. Maybe a deal can be had right now with DET?
You might wanna check out Petr Mrazic, their 3rd string starter, and future in net.
I wouldn't be cheering too hard for "the monster"'s return if I'm a Wings fan.
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I think I have to side with jj, much to my surprise!
From I've watched of our goaltending this year, Hiller is the type of goalie for this team.
Nothing against Ramo, I like him as a goalie, but his style isn't cut out for a kinda weak 3-4 and really weak 5-7D.
All Ortio did last night was stay in his net. That's the type of goalie that's effective for us. Hiller's had some bad games, but let's face it, he's a veteran goalie that chooses to stay deep in his net with this team.
Kudos to Ortio for doing the same.
Call it one game and 4 posts all you like, but he did what Hiller does and Ramo doesn't, he stayed in his net.
We're surprising with results, much of that credit goes to Hiller methinks. He's stoic back there so we can go and play with confidence.
He'd be a good tutor.
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Gotta say I love being wrong, good hard fought team win. Gave up lots of shots, but not huge chances.
Backlund is really something, he's been our best player since returning.
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Because the team has elevated our expectations, we have elevated expectations. I guess that's not the worst thing in the world.
But the team has to be better than Van in general, not just the goalie. Hiller's our goalie, not an IR call-up.
It's his responsibility to win these games. Not Ortio's, not yet.
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For the record, I'm not a fan of starting Ortio on National TV against on of our biggest rivals, not for his 1st game up.
If it went well, that would be great, but not great enough to counter the if it goes badly risk.
If it weren't on National tv, I freely admit, I'd feel differently.
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Hopefully it's one of those times where it's beneficial to let your goalie play through a rough patch. The "hot hand" philosophy can sometimes be a bad thing when you yank your goalie after a loss. It can play to a goalies psyche to leave the perception that the goals are his fault.
Did anyone not see that 6th goal coming? The goalie can't do much when the team is getting hemmed in and don't fight tooth and nail to clear the zone. That was a skater's loss for taking a break upon tying it up. The Panther's look like the Flames of the east, that was a hard-working win for them.
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Hiller has been our goalie this year, can't argue that.
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It reminded me of a line I was told waay back in goalie camp: "If you're not going to use your head and protect your net, take your helmet off, because there's no point in protecting your head"...lol
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Can someone pleeeeaaaase work with Ramo. Gives up the short side for goal #1, Detroit tried it again and almost had another. Gets injured over-commiting into no man's land...
I'm growing less supportive watching the same simple mistakes over and over...some call it "unorthodox"...I prefer "mental errors".
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You are too hung up on numbers my friend.
well, not really
It'll probably start off that way, but don't be surprised to see Ortio challenge for the starter position in a very short period of time.
Even now, I think he would give Ramo a serious run for his money. Give him a little experience next year, he'd be knocking on the door with Hiller in a relatively short period of time. Potentially.
Ortio just had another 30 save performance for a .944 in December.
http://theahl.com/stats/gamebygame.php?id=4090
And don't be surprised if it's not long before Gillies challenges Ortio too.
I prefer to look at a goalie's attributes, and we currently have 2 completely different goalies.
I believe far too much is given to "go with the hot hand".
Hiller: plays big, stays in his net, not very mobile but relies on staying in front of the puck and absorbs pucks well. Very average at seeing the puck through traffic.
Ramo: Sees the puck through traffic very well. Mobile to a fault, over-commits to scrambles leaving the net a yawning cage but relies on reflex and instincts.
Glove speeds are about even.
With that, goal coaching has to focus on the type of goalie, these 2 are night and day.
Overall, due to such a porous 4-7 D, Hiller is likely the better option due to rebound control, but having said that, play your goalie to opponent. If it's a crash the net team, play Hiller. If it's a high skill team, play Ramo.
In general. There's a lot of either/or teams, but for the Chi/Minny/LA types, play Hiller. For the T.O./Pens/Van types, play Ramo.
Forget the hot hand, play to the style and tempo you expect, learn as you go.
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I think we're in the early goings of measuring Hiller's starts. With Ramo as a solid backup, it allows us to monitor the starts.
Maybe TBay was 1 too many, but it was the first time this season they started him consecutively. Just monitor the trends!
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This topic talks about Flames Defense and not forwards. I'm not sure why there's a need to bring Devin Setoguchi down. Also, it's unfair to compare a top pairing defenseman to a guy who was brought here to play 3rd or 4th line minutes for $750k.
Because you've been pumping his tires all over the board. I watched all of camp and all exhibition live. You simply hit a nerve in me by inflating the flatlined. $750 for a 3rd/4th liner be darned, he still has to be a 3rd/4th liner. We have better options. He's depth, so should be on the farm.
For what our D has been able to do, I think it has a ton to do with the confidence we have in our goalies that has everyone heading North a lot more often than in the past, without fear. Another shining example of why you build your team from the net out!
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Are you saying he will be much better than Duncan Keith?
Whichever way, I think Brodie will be more valuable than Devin Setoguchi, who doesn't deserve to be here.
In the least.
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A "tweet" was referenced today on fan960 that Ramo gets the Lightning start.
Sorry, I know that's a weak reference with no link...but yeah.
I'm digging it. Don't fix what isn't broken!
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That's what camp is for. If Ramo outplays Hiller, he's the starter.
Not quite sure why the passion for which goalie gets the starts. Neither is a prospect.
Isn't cheering one or the other being a racialist?
Ramo's the starter if he plays better than Hiller, why are we doling out the kid gloves for him?
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Well that's certainly the color of the kool-aid right now.
IMHO, two back ups don't make a starter. And two backups definitely don't make two starters.
But it'll do for next year.
After all, it's a crucial draft year for our rebuild. Probably the most crucial.
Huh?
Can you reiterate? It reads like you're saying Hiller is no better than a backup?
I was staring at Anaheim's logjam at goalie this year thinking, wow, excess excess give us some.
It is still quite possible we got the best one for the immediate future.
You add in his "down year" last year was still quite respectable over 50 games, including 5 shutouts. Wipe out the true "backups" with <40 games started, Hiller is a bonafide starter in this league. The "down year", I believe, was a lot more about circumstances with the logjam, just like Burke had to unload Bryz because Hiller was requiring his seat. Wasn't long before he earned Giggy's seat.
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I agree. my comment was about G prospects.
There's a few goalies out there for backups.
Hiller is a starter, a 1A at worst.
Goaltending
in Flames Talk
Posted
And I wasn't. Just to clarify, I was responding to Zirak about Hiller's misfortunes in Anaheim last season.
I didn't discuss Ramo because he wasn't the subject.
But if you'd like my opinion on Ramo, I believe he follows the puck well in traffic, has good reflexes, but scrambles too much.
I don't believe there's a huge difference between Hiller and Ramo in quality, but I believe their styles are a lot different.
My preference for us is Hiller, because he stays in the net to a fault.
But having said that, I like our tandem, and there has been more than one occasion I'd have gone with Ramo myself. It doesn't mean the result would have changed, just how I view aesthetics from team to team in styles of play expected.
I'm in no rush to move either goalie currently.
But let's say in the next 2, I'd go Hiller vs NYR and Ramo vs NYI, for example.
The reasoning is style of play expected.