conundrumed
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Posts posted by conundrumed
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Theres no sure thing one will be gone by next season. Just because Ortio is on a one way doesn't mean he cant play in Adirondack, just means he gets paid the same either way. I see all 3 goalies in camp, to anoint Ortio to the big team is not only management suicide, but a slap in the face for players to see you can lose your job without so much as a competition. The only way i see any of these 3 getting traded prior to next season is if something is coming back .
To let Ramo walk , also quite silly , hes proven he can play in this league, as a starter or backup is still up for debate, but im pretty sure theres a team or 2 he'd be the starter 1st day (look north for example)
Remember , GOOD teams at any time have at least 3 goaltenders they are comfortable giving a start to on any day. look how many have gone down this year , and how many have come from the minors to have big games. After our 3 , who do we have you'd be comfortable starting in a game with the playoffs on the line?
You go backwards by trading one right now
Pretty sure we're on the same page. We can only solidify our G further to give us more options and even better returns.
There's a possibility Gillies is in camp next year also. A few short months ago, this was a good problem to have!
It's still a good problem to have.
Perhaps Gillies becomes the IR callup and Ortio can sail fair in the A another year.
Lock up Ramo for 3 more, Hiller becomes next year's deadline fodder, and we hopefully have great depth at the position to bargain with.
Ramo has earned the contract, I agree the optics in our group are going to suck if he's allowed to walk. Particularly if we play a "not interested in signing you again" card.
Karma's tough, you've gotta reward your top players, our tandem has earned it.
While the media has feasted on Gio, Brodie and Johnny/Mona/Huds, even Bouma, the under-lying story, methinks, is our tandem.
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Probably a good time to discuss our cap floor issues. Is having 3 goalies on 1 ways something that might be beneficial? Particularly with all of the Glencross trade talk?
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I agree.
I appreciate that from yourself and robrob.
I think I needed it actually!
Sorry kehatch, I wasn't meaning to be a grunt about it, but we're where we shouldn't be. Reading "ah Hiller this, ah Ramo that" really strikes a nerve in me. Especially the "whose gotta go?".
It isn't the time to have that discussion imho.
So I apologize if I came across very narrow-minded.
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You got me. I give up.
Let's keep the focus on which of these 2 needs to go.
Seems like a good thing to stir up controversy about.
I know media doesn't thrive on that.
Our goalies brought it to the table this year. Heck, we're looking very unpredictable in my homer eyes.
Again, and I can't stress this enough, I live in the now.
And right now, we have a terrific tandem.
In the off season, we have some hard decisions.
It's where it's at.
I love our tandem, piss off with the drama.
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Not every post can be about the making the playoffs. Though there are a bunch of those. Ramo is a pending free agent so its a fair discussion.
So we'll lose him for nothing? Is that the problem?
He's helping us, does that matter?
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Wow you guys. What is your team doing right now?
Why stress until the season comes to pass?
Kind of a ridiculous argument before we know what transpires THIS season.
We're kind of doing okay, from any vantage point.
Why harp the negatives out of which goalie should go, I guess is my point.
At this point, neither.
Stop trading them. IMHO, of course.
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If you were around here when Kipper was in his prime, guys were outing him and blaming losses on him then too. I guess it's the nature of the beast, but I agree with you. The combination of our goalies have us where we're at.
I might have been username carbuncle then, or crash even earlier. Yeah, I know.
The point I'd stress is, "live in the now". Right now we have a tandem that I've had zero to complain about all year.
They are very different goalies, they both can ride some pretty high attributes when they are on.
We don't really look like a team on paper that should be where we're at.
I don't understand, at this point in the season, why all we can think to do is sit around and complain.
"We can't lose Ramo for nothing" is my favourite NHL calamity. The only time you lose a player for nothing is when he has a career ending injury.
People shouldn't fret over next season, there's an off-season.
Imagine how Cup threats feel, are they all caught up in next season?
No, because we have THIS season to finish.
And anything goes...
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Back on the topic of our current goaltending, I think it's quite good. And find it a little distasteful to even consider whom we should out at this point.
All year, the backstopping has been solid, be it Hiller, Ramo or Ortio's brief stint.
It's a point of power for us, why not just enjoy the ride?
Ramo was awfully good at this point last year.
Just sayin'....
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You can't say this about Hiller and not allow that to be true about Rano either. The team has holes and to blame the goalie in either of their situations are false. Both have played very similar aside from that extremely good start for Hiller.
They both let in a bad goal from time to time. They both shut the other team down from time to time. They both have good and bad games.
The one thing Hiller didn't do in Anaheim was make that one save. Not specifically, just the one that shut the door, but the rest of the game, I agree, was on the team.
I don't, but I see both goalies as pretty even. Ramos record is really good and he's won some games for us. If you consider him a backup, he has been the best backup we've ever had.
Imagine if our backups had his record when we had Kipper. But like Deeds said, that's the past, time to move on.
I think Ramo is better than we give him credit for and he will prove it with another team.
And I wasn't. Just to clarify, I was responding to Zirak about Hiller's misfortunes in Anaheim last season.
I didn't discuss Ramo because he wasn't the subject.
But if you'd like my opinion on Ramo, I believe he follows the puck well in traffic, has good reflexes, but scrambles too much.
I don't believe there's a huge difference between Hiller and Ramo in quality, but I believe their styles are a lot different.
My preference for us is Hiller, because he stays in the net to a fault.
But having said that, I like our tandem, and there has been more than one occasion I'd have gone with Ramo myself. It doesn't mean the result would have changed, just how I view aesthetics from team to team in styles of play expected.
I'm in no rush to move either goalie currently.
But let's say in the next 2, I'd go Hiller vs NYR and Ramo vs NYI, for example.
The reasoning is style of play expected.
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Florida is another example of recent memory. Hiller has a habit of letting in a soft goal at bad times and got beat out by 2 different goalies last year for the Ducks, who are one of the top teams in the NHL now. If he got beat out by a rookie in the playoffs last year what makes you think he should be the goalie for the Flames?
I'm more of the mind that Bruce Boudreau made poor decisions with his goaltending last year. With some of the stacked teams he's had in Washington and now Anaheim, you have to start wondering if he's much of a coach in the playoffs.
Everyone knows putting the bulk of what is wrong on your goalies shoulders is just whitewashing other issues, such as being continually out-coached in line-matching.
They made Hiller unwelcomed likely a year too soon at least. But it was no secret Hiller didn't want to sign in Anaheim.
No point pretending Hiller screwed up, Anaheim did. We're just the beneficiaries.
But it's painful to see Hiller just fine back there for 5 out of 6, and get hacked to bits when the team plays like crap, as they did with the Ducks.
Forget pretending what happened in Anaheim was all Hiller not being worth anything, it's simply not true, and we aren't Anaheim, and we're not coached by Boudreau.
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Last night is a perfect example of why the Ducks let Hiller go and why I think the Flames should go with Ramo. But Hiller for whatever reason is Harleys favorite. With Ortio injured its highly unlikely Ramo is traded without another goalie coming back. Seems to just be too many moving parts then to happen at the deadline.
What?
Typical Flames fan, 1 night of misfortune, "that's it, you're a bum".
Go cheer for your glorious Pens, boarding off.
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How awesome was our D in '04?
Juss sayin'.
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This team is missing two things. Elite goal tending, and size. We need the elite goal tending more then we need the size though. I really can't see the flames being competitive with "regular/good goal tending" in the play offs
I'll call bollocks.
You don't know what it takes. Neither do I nor does anyone else.
There isn't a formula, so we might just as well sit on our crowns and not start handing out pamphlets pretending we actualy know, especially the one's doused in negatives.
They've already surprised, I wouldn't jump to say they're out of surprises.
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With Ramo not having a full game in so long, do you play him against the Pens though? As a first game back in a really long time, it could be a tough one to start? But then, when do you start him?
It's all for not now as it looks like Hiller's start. I'd still go Ramo myself, you can't baby this stuff imo. Be it the Pens, Blues or Preds, you can't be afraid to give either of your goalies a hard start, even under hard circumstances.
Hiller has been stalwart, but the only thing it earns him is trust and belief in him. Each win shouldn't be a guaranteed next start. If we get crushed he doesn't get the next start.
Call it semantics, but I wouldn't manage goalies like that.
Call it "reward", but it's pretty disingenuous. As soon as he loses that 4-1 one, he loses his next start. You start creating a backfire that your losses are on the goalie. Also that you burned up your goalies focus when he's playing well, rather than managed it.
Trade Ortio
LOL that's good
Being that it's below my post, was this directed at me? Just seeking clarification, as you didn't quote anyone.
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You know when you have to scroll down to find this thread that goaltending isn't an issue for now. Nothing to say if we aren't complaining lol.
To the point, I'd like to see Ramo in vs the Pens.
Riding the hot hand is a myth, imho.
Hiller was afforded massive rest by Ortio, he's on form.
Keep him there knowing he isn't a camel.
Ramo HAS to get some starts, both of our goalies need to be on form, Hiller earns his days off.
Doing it against the Pens will send more fear into everyone lol.
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I agree with wreckening. Ortio has a ton of positives to take back with him.
It isn't his time yet, he can be proud he got 4 huge W's, and gave the guys a great rest.
Unless there is an injury, he should be in the A and become even more undeniably a top prospect goalie.
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DET appears to be in the market for a GT. Howard was stretchered off last night which looks like a severe groin pull. Their backup GT has been out due to injury since early Nov which leaves them a 3rd string starter and a 4th string backup. Maybe a deal can be had right now with DET?
You might wanna check out Petr Mrazic, their 3rd string starter, and future in net.
I wouldn't be cheering too hard for "the monster"'s return if I'm a Wings fan.
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I think I have to side with jj, much to my surprise!
From I've watched of our goaltending this year, Hiller is the type of goalie for this team.
Nothing against Ramo, I like him as a goalie, but his style isn't cut out for a kinda weak 3-4 and really weak 5-7D.
All Ortio did last night was stay in his net. That's the type of goalie that's effective for us. Hiller's had some bad games, but let's face it, he's a veteran goalie that chooses to stay deep in his net with this team.
Kudos to Ortio for doing the same.
Call it one game and 4 posts all you like, but he did what Hiller does and Ramo doesn't, he stayed in his net.
We're surprising with results, much of that credit goes to Hiller methinks. He's stoic back there so we can go and play with confidence.
He'd be a good tutor.
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Gotta say I love being wrong, good hard fought team win. Gave up lots of shots, but not huge chances.
Backlund is really something, he's been our best player since returning.
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Because the team has elevated our expectations, we have elevated expectations. I guess that's not the worst thing in the world.
But the team has to be better than Van in general, not just the goalie. Hiller's our goalie, not an IR call-up.
It's his responsibility to win these games. Not Ortio's, not yet.
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For the record, I'm not a fan of starting Ortio on National TV against on of our biggest rivals, not for his 1st game up.
If it went well, that would be great, but not great enough to counter the if it goes badly risk.
If it weren't on National tv, I freely admit, I'd feel differently.
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Hopefully it's one of those times where it's beneficial to let your goalie play through a rough patch. The "hot hand" philosophy can sometimes be a bad thing when you yank your goalie after a loss. It can play to a goalies psyche to leave the perception that the goals are his fault.
Did anyone not see that 6th goal coming? The goalie can't do much when the team is getting hemmed in and don't fight tooth and nail to clear the zone. That was a skater's loss for taking a break upon tying it up. The Panther's look like the Flames of the east, that was a hard-working win for them.
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Hiller has been our goalie this year, can't argue that.
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It reminded me of a line I was told waay back in goalie camp: "If you're not going to use your head and protect your net, take your helmet off, because there's no point in protecting your head"...lol
Goaltending
in Flames Talk
Posted
Trading Glencross smells like seller to me also.