conundrumed
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Posts posted by conundrumed
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Hopefully it's one of those times where it's beneficial to let your goalie play through a rough patch. The "hot hand" philosophy can sometimes be a bad thing when you yank your goalie after a loss. It can play to a goalies psyche to leave the perception that the goals are his fault.
Did anyone not see that 6th goal coming? The goalie can't do much when the team is getting hemmed in and don't fight tooth and nail to clear the zone. That was a skater's loss for taking a break upon tying it up. The Panther's look like the Flames of the east, that was a hard-working win for them.
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Hiller has been our goalie this year, can't argue that.
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It reminded me of a line I was told waay back in goalie camp: "If you're not going to use your head and protect your net, take your helmet off, because there's no point in protecting your head"...lol
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Can someone pleeeeaaaase work with Ramo. Gives up the short side for goal #1, Detroit tried it again and almost had another. Gets injured over-commiting into no man's land...
I'm growing less supportive watching the same simple mistakes over and over...some call it "unorthodox"...I prefer "mental errors".
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You are too hung up on numbers my friend.
well, not really
It'll probably start off that way, but don't be surprised to see Ortio challenge for the starter position in a very short period of time.
Even now, I think he would give Ramo a serious run for his money. Give him a little experience next year, he'd be knocking on the door with Hiller in a relatively short period of time. Potentially.
Ortio just had another 30 save performance for a .944 in December.
http://theahl.com/stats/gamebygame.php?id=4090
And don't be surprised if it's not long before Gillies challenges Ortio too.
I prefer to look at a goalie's attributes, and we currently have 2 completely different goalies.
I believe far too much is given to "go with the hot hand".
Hiller: plays big, stays in his net, not very mobile but relies on staying in front of the puck and absorbs pucks well. Very average at seeing the puck through traffic.
Ramo: Sees the puck through traffic very well. Mobile to a fault, over-commits to scrambles leaving the net a yawning cage but relies on reflex and instincts.
Glove speeds are about even.
With that, goal coaching has to focus on the type of goalie, these 2 are night and day.
Overall, due to such a porous 4-7 D, Hiller is likely the better option due to rebound control, but having said that, play your goalie to opponent. If it's a crash the net team, play Hiller. If it's a high skill team, play Ramo.
In general. There's a lot of either/or teams, but for the Chi/Minny/LA types, play Hiller. For the T.O./Pens/Van types, play Ramo.
Forget the hot hand, play to the style and tempo you expect, learn as you go.
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I think we're in the early goings of measuring Hiller's starts. With Ramo as a solid backup, it allows us to monitor the starts.
Maybe TBay was 1 too many, but it was the first time this season they started him consecutively. Just monitor the trends!
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This topic talks about Flames Defense and not forwards. I'm not sure why there's a need to bring Devin Setoguchi down. Also, it's unfair to compare a top pairing defenseman to a guy who was brought here to play 3rd or 4th line minutes for $750k.
Because you've been pumping his tires all over the board. I watched all of camp and all exhibition live. You simply hit a nerve in me by inflating the flatlined. $750 for a 3rd/4th liner be darned, he still has to be a 3rd/4th liner. We have better options. He's depth, so should be on the farm.
For what our D has been able to do, I think it has a ton to do with the confidence we have in our goalies that has everyone heading North a lot more often than in the past, without fear. Another shining example of why you build your team from the net out!
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Are you saying he will be much better than Duncan Keith?
Whichever way, I think Brodie will be more valuable than Devin Setoguchi, who doesn't deserve to be here.
In the least.
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A "tweet" was referenced today on fan960 that Ramo gets the Lightning start.
Sorry, I know that's a weak reference with no link...but yeah.
I'm digging it. Don't fix what isn't broken!
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That's what camp is for. If Ramo outplays Hiller, he's the starter.
Not quite sure why the passion for which goalie gets the starts. Neither is a prospect.
Isn't cheering one or the other being a racialist?
Ramo's the starter if he plays better than Hiller, why are we doling out the kid gloves for him?
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Well that's certainly the color of the kool-aid right now.
IMHO, two back ups don't make a starter. And two backups definitely don't make two starters.
But it'll do for next year.
After all, it's a crucial draft year for our rebuild. Probably the most crucial.
Huh?
Can you reiterate? It reads like you're saying Hiller is no better than a backup?
I was staring at Anaheim's logjam at goalie this year thinking, wow, excess excess give us some.
It is still quite possible we got the best one for the immediate future.
You add in his "down year" last year was still quite respectable over 50 games, including 5 shutouts. Wipe out the true "backups" with <40 games started, Hiller is a bonafide starter in this league. The "down year", I believe, was a lot more about circumstances with the logjam, just like Burke had to unload Bryz because Hiller was requiring his seat. Wasn't long before he earned Giggy's seat.
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I agree. my comment was about G prospects.
There's a few goalies out there for backups.
Hiller is a starter, a 1A at worst.
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Our goaltending has to be competitive, McDonald solves it, we're done at G prospects.
Time to move on in other areas. Backend out. Stability on D is the objective now.
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pheewww
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I don't suppose he also mentioned that our prospect depth at D and RW is almost nil too?
We'll be looking to add star power next year or the year after?
Call me Captain Obvious...
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That's good news. It needs to happen. Kiprusoff spoiled us into not treating our G spot, errrr position, with greater urgency.
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Not sure bringing in a younger goalie is sending the right message. It would say that the Flames are not happy yet with our young goalies we have now, wouldn't it? Anyway I was commenting on those who stated they wanted to bring in a veteran goaltender.
The problem is, you can say that about any position. It's mgmt's call, it's their job to keep the team competitive.
If they think JMac's good enough, I won't argue.
But if the think they can upgrade the position via FA, I'd agree.
And maybe ff can turn my head around, but I am not an Emery fan.
Inconsistency is my issue with him, and I believe that issue comes from attitude.
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Backup goaltenders don't have that much infleunce on the seasons results/standings unless the starting goaltender gets injured long term during the season. We are unlikely to move up the standings with even a great backup.
While I agree with you DD, it's still something that can be improved for little increased cost.
I don't understand why we rely on Ramo, Ortio and Gillies will be the answer to keep JMac.
If that plan backfires we will be nowhere and desperate, why not improve on JMac now, if only just as an insurance policy?
Who was the last NHL goalie we acquired from an NHL team?
What, exactly, are we afraid of is my question?
We suck at addressing goaltending the old-fashioned way is all I can think.
Hopefully our new GM is asking those questions. There is never a sense of urgency, like goalies are a dime/dozen. Best goalie not in the NHL etc etc.
Honestly, our goalies are still at the prospect stage, yet we act like it's not an issue.
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Dubnyk is a giant of a goalie, but it's still about playing the position. Being tall, his rebound control is in doubt, his side to side movement is suspect. Not to mention his 5 hole.
I've gotta go with no on Dubnyk.
He's been around long enough to prove he should stick.
He hasn't done that.
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Wh
When JMac backed up Kipper for an extended period, he played well and posted a slightly better than .500 record. I see no reason to believe that he would create the trumoil that you describe.
Wh
When JMac backed up Kipper for an extended period, he played well and posted a slightly better than .500 record. I see no reason to believe that he would create the trumoil that you describe.
I'm really not one to bandy out stats because I think a lot of them have the eau du garbodge, but these one's look pretty noticeable:
MacD : 11GP; 5-4-1; 0 SO; 2.9 GAA; .890 sav% based on a total of 264 shots.
Greiss: 25GP; 10-8-5; 2 SO; 2.29 GAA; .920 s% based on a total of 626 shots.
Montoya:28GP 13-8-3 2 SO; 2.30 GAA; .920 s% based on a total of 737 shots.
I realize these 2 guys get a raise, but they were cheaper than MacD last year. We picked MacD on waivers, all of our prospects are via draft.
Why do we never, ever, seem to want to go after NHL goalies?
I'd really like to see how we treat the G position stray from the past since we no longer have Kipper.
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As for who, I am of the opinion if you have confidence in you prospects then it does not matter the age of our backup. The backup only needs to be with us for a couple of years until our prospects develop.
We already know we are going with our starter as Ramo, and at this stage of our rebuild he is suitable.
Isn't it worth upgrading the backup role though? We're an injury away from turmoil, I feel like we're living on the edge with JMac. I feel like Greiss or Montoya would be an upgrade with only a bit more $ for a 2 or 3 year deal. Of the 3 goalies last year, JMac found a way to finish 4th.
Ramo's the starter. But an injury to him or Ortio will impact both our big club and/or AHL club, as it's plain to see Ortio is our #2 as far as starters go.
Having a backup goalie that can clear waivers speaks volumes, no?
Seems like an area we can upgrade cheap without going for the Miller's and Halak's.
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I think having Ramo start 50 games or so and Ortio taking the rest would be ideale as I think 30 NHL games is just as good as 50 or so in the AHL. Problem I see with that is you have to commit those starts to Ortio and Hartley, as a lot of coaches would, likes to ride his guy so my fear there is Ortio could go stretches of 2 weeks without starting. So even though the number of games would probably work I think it's best to go and get a backup but the tricky thing there is I think ideally you'd only want then on a one year deal because you do have Ortio who isn't going to sit in the AHL forever. A name I have seen yet who I think could fit is Tomas Greiss. He's backed up workhorse goalies, in case Ramo turns into that, and has flashed some potential here and there and would likely come on a pretty reasonable contract and I think the potential for him to play up to 30 games or so beats being in pheonix where you know mike smith is going to play a ton.
Then the problem becomes, "wow, Greiss was great". Now what?
Is it outfitting Greiss, where does that leave Ortio, etc.
Tough call.
That's why I want our 2 best goalies on the big club. Prop up the A with an addition, if required, but not an addition in place of a capable goalie we likely already have as our 2nd best option.
It'll wind up being like our LW, imho. Too many assets there...enough solutions to create confusion.
Buy into what you've got. If that's a problem, address it. But not before it's a problem.
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The Scneider comparison, not quite what I was going for, just trying to throw it out there for discussion. Van's pretty wayward with goalie's, I don't hope for that. Skilled goalie to push our starter, and there just in case.
Or Joey Mac is all I was thinking, who immediately gets leapt by Ortio should our starter falter or worse, is all I'm thinking.
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But you risk a regression of both goalies by not playing them enough. Look at the debacle in Toronto…
How many games do you play them, split it? 45 games for one goalie and 37 for the other? I suppose there will be injuries.
I wonder how Ortio will be once teams realize he leaves the upper part of the net pretty wide open? He's a bit of a smaller goalie when it comes to todays goaltenders. I guess it's something we will find out?
I can't argue that you might be right. I won't say Ortio should be the back up next year and can understand why you give him another year in the A.
An alternative is to use him in a backup role with the big club, not 1A/1B. Ortio started the year in the ECHL, we saw pretty quickly he didn't belong there. He's been stellar in the A.
It's a case of a goalie we underrated as a prospect perhaps, and he has proven himself this year to the point of making the JBo acquisition of Berra redundant. Ortio provided it to turn into a 2nd, yay.
Unless we intend on resigning JoeyMac, we need a backup. I just don't understand this fear we have of making our best prospect goalie a backup on the big club. A backup isn't exactly time off because of little playing time. He still has to be sharp and ready every night, while seeing the stellar goalies in the bigs every night and how they do it.
Give and take.
Is there a regression component? Sure. But I believe it's a case by case assessment, not an ever-present alarm as it can seems be treated too often.
His weaknesses are points worked on with the coaches, which looks to me like timing adjustments. Small is fine when you take away space properly. Kipper was small. Ortio is talented, just needs to stay aggressively at the top of his crease imo.
Goaltending
in Flames Talk
Posted
For the record, I'm not a fan of starting Ortio on National TV against on of our biggest rivals, not for his 1st game up.
If it went well, that would be great, but not great enough to counter the if it goes badly risk.
If it weren't on National tv, I freely admit, I'd feel differently.