24-25 Training Camp

[jjgallow]

9 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

 

A side note, the Wranglers should be fun to watch this season. They will have a very offensive D core and some good forwards up front with Honzek, Coronoto, Frk, Duehr, Morton, and Peltier. If they can get so goaltending should be a great season. 

 

I just don't see Pelts getting claimed there have been and are better players on or have cleared waivers than him.

 

 

 

I'm so buying season tickets this year.     

[sak22]

17 minutes ago, cberg said:

Agree wholeheartedly, back in 2014-15 when the Flames surprised massively, what was the mantra: “Earned not Given”.  Those that earned were given a chance, they took it and ran with it all the way to the second round of the playoffs.  That is the best since 2005, and second best in decades.  Unless there is some compelling reason why not, those that earn should be rewarded.  Health and strength are clearly factors, but mental and trust issues also matter.

One thing with that team and the Earned not Given mantra is who remembers training camp that year?  No kids really pushed out vets in training camp, Gaudreau did win a spot, but there were also injuries to start the year.  A lot of vets did lose time that year, but they were still afforded some runway during the regular season, so I do think the mantra was a little overblown.  I'm just not a preseason guy, I think helps determine where prospects are at, but I've seen too many preseason legends like Chuck Kobasew, Dustin Boyd, Sam Bennett, even 40 year old Fleury, Austin Czarnik and Coronato last year to not get too wound up about Honzek this year, I am encouraged but want to see a year of good health and production before I get too excited and I believe it is better to be in the AHL.

[cross16]

Yeah it's funny to bring up the 14-15 Flames because that was a team full of veteran players, all of whom kept their jobs in training camp. the only question mark in that training camp was is Gaudreau an NHLer or not. Outside of him, take a look at that roster and you'll see everyone you would have picked to make it pre camp, made it post camp. 

 

Earned never given is not a team building mantra it's a mindset.  

[cberg]

46 minutes ago, sak22 said:

One thing with that team and the Earned not Given mantra is who remembers training camp that year?  No kids really pushed out vets in training camp, Gaudreau did win a spot, but there were also injuries to start the year.  A lot of vets did lose time that year, but they were still afforded some runway during the regular season, so I do think the mantra was a little overblown.  I'm just not a preseason guy, I think helps determine where prospects are at, but I've seen too many preseason legends like Chuck Kobasew, Dustin Boyd, Sam Bennett, even 40 year old Fleury, Austin Czarnik and Coronato last year to not get too wound up about Honzek this year, I am encouraged but want to see a year of good health and production before I get too excited and I believe it is better to be in the AHL.

Good point about wanting to see that success over an extended period, especially knowing that there will always be injuries and resulting opportunities.

[travel_dude]

3 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

For all the flake he gets, he played well last year and he's been good again so far in camp. That line was my favorite against the Canucks. For a team lacking centers I don't see the logic in one playing his role well. 

 

I think Hanley is your ideal 7/8 dman because they don't need to care if he sits for a long period of time. I wish they had an NHL spot for Solo too but it's got to be one where he plays and not sits and that isn't available right now. 

 

The two I mentioned waiving are due to the belief that neither gets claimed.  If it came down to waiving a young C and a prized winger vs an older C and a older D, which are you willing to bank on?

 

Rooney played well when he got back from injury last season.  This camp he played well with Lomberg and Klapka, but those two were also good with Morton.  I saw as many bad games last year from Hanley as good, so I don't know that's a good use of a roster spot.  Would Barrie be a better use of a 7D spot than Hanley?  Both are depth and Barrie has tools that Hanley doesn't.  By the same token, Hanley is a little more steady in a shutdown capacity.

 

Where Solo is being waived it makes the choice signing Barrie or waiving Hanley.  No slight to either.

[Otown72]

A little mini documentary series on camp. Ep 1

Enjoy 

 

 

[cross16]

Solo cleared waivers.

No Flames on waivers today. Would expect more of those decision tomorrow after their game tonight 

[travel_dude]

9 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Solo cleared waivers.

No Flames on waivers today. Would expect more of those decision tomorrow after their game tonight 

 

Good to hear.  It's actually better that he gets some more work in than getting moldy on the bench.  As we get closer to the cutoff, we may see some bigger names being waived.  Not so much our team but others.  CBJ has to consider claiming higher price contracts so as not to restrict their option come TDL.  They were given an exemption (for now) of not being at the floor.  If they want to trade assets at TDL, they need some room.

[Otown72]

22 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

The two I mentioned waiving are due to the belief that neither gets claimed.  If it came down to waiving a young C and a prized winger vs an older C and a older D, which are you willing to bank on?

 

Rooney played well when he got back from injury last season.  This camp he played well with Lomberg and Klapka, but those two were also good with Morton.  I saw as many bad games last year from Hanley as good, so I don't know that's a good use of a roster spot.  Would Barrie be a better use of a 7D spot than Hanley?  Both are depth and Barrie has tools that Hanley doesn't.  By the same token, Hanley is a little more steady in a shutdown capacity.

 

Where Solo is being waived it makes the choice signing Barrie or waiving Hanley.  No slight to either.

I hope they sign Barrie. He has the offensive toolset that the Flames are missing except Weegs.

If we waive Hanley and he gets claimed, we lose him the same way we got him. We have too many 6-7 d men as it is.

Barrie has more to offer on the powerplay than either Andersson and Bean.

Build him up and trade him 

Would Barrie sign for minimum 🤔 

Not that we need to be too cheap here anyway lol

[travel_dude]

19 minutes ago, Otown72 said:

I hope they sign Barrie. He has the offensive toolset that the Flames are missing except Weegs.

If we waive Hanley and he gets claimed, we lose him the same way we got him. We have too many 6-7 d men as it is.

Barrie has more to offer on the powerplay than either Andersson and Bean.

Build him up and trade him 

Would Barrie sign for minimum 🤔 

Not that we need to be too cheap here anyway lol

 

The difficulty with PTO guys is that they likely turned down a decent offer.  Not a great on, just decent.  If we sign Barrie, I would prefer it be to a reasonable amount.  One that allows us to retain half and it's a bargain to another team.  Anyway, the cap hit is not important for us, just the ability to trade him, if we decide that.  Not sure I would ever consider longer than a year, but maybe an extension in in the cards should we decide to trade Ras later.  A holding spot for Brz.  

 

What makes Barrie useful to us is his PP acumen.  Pachal showed what you need to do to get the point shot through, but Barrie is also a good passer.  

[travel_dude]

[travel_dude]

Well, that's not exactly the lineup.  22 players

FYI, Aspirot, Bishop, FRK and Kirkland were previously waived.

[Otown72]

15 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

The difficulty with PTO guys is that they likely turned down a decent offer.  Not a great on, just decent.  If we sign Barrie, I would prefer it be to a reasonable amount.  One that allows us to retain half and it's a bargain to another team.  Anyway, the cap hit is not important for us, just the ability to trade him, if we decide that.  Not sure I would ever consider longer than a year, but maybe an extension in in the cards should we decide to trade Ras later.  A holding spot for Brz.  

 

What makes Barrie useful to us is his PP acumen.  Pachal showed what you need to do to get the point shot through, but Barrie is also a good passer.  

Pretty much in agreement on the PP assessment. If that's the case, with I see no reason why the Flames don't end up signing Barrie. 

Hopefully the Flames can get more than one PP(last game refs didn't seem to want to call anything agains Seattle 😆) tonight against WPG to see some PP options on display.

[travel_dude]

9 minutes ago, Otown72 said:

Pretty much in agreement on the PP assessment. If that's the case, with I see no reason why the Flames don't end up signing Barrie. 

Hopefully the Flames can get more than one PP(last game refs didn't seem to want to call anything agains Seattle 😆) tonight against WPG to see some PP options on display.

We were static for much of last year, so it's no wonder why we scored less.  IIRC, we did not score a single goal on the 2 man advantage.  That should be a given.  I think there is logic to signing Barrie and waiving Hanley.  One is a trade chip, the other is waiver fodder.  Not to be negative, but I like to have better options.  

[conundrumed]

Well that went well.../s

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

Well that went well.../s

 

Bahl, Bean, Mirimanov, Bru, Tinordi, Barrie.

Tinordi was supposed to be AHL material.

 

Overall, not a good game.  

[conundrumed]

9 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Bahl, Bean, Mirimanov, Bru, Tinordi, Barrie.

Tinordi was supposed to be AHL material.

 

Overall, not a good game.  

Not sure I can handle watching Mantha not care in Flames silks.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

Not sure I can handle watching Mantha not care in Flames silks.

 

He wasn't exactly a standout or outstanding was he.

I know most vets don't care about preseason, but this looks bad.

 

My comments were about the D though.

Barrie was one of the better ones in the game.

Tinordi was not, so I hope they send him down soon.

Bean was good at times and Bahl was rusty (no doubt there).

[tmac70]

I watched the game, The only standout, which was remote, was Zary. Mantha man never understood why anyone over 6 foot 2 and 200 plus pounds plays softer than a pillow. Get after it. Bru struggled, but you can see the talent. He was left out to dry on most of the goals, but he had some good moments. Tinordi is a tire fire. He would be a great asset for the tank crowd.  Corronto struggled, Pelts was invisible again, Schwindt was moderately noticeable, Rooney was as advertised, Morton like his motor, he is on the cusp. Really 4th line Center I can see them keeping Rooney, Although I would not be opposed to Schwindt and Morton either but I would send them down. I can see Corronto, Morton, Schwindt, Bru. tinordi, Frk getting sent down , Pelts has to get waived or traded, he just isn't a bottom 6 guy. I see Barrie getting a contract though. If Bru was a little more seasoned I could see the Flames choosing him over Barrie, but he is a little to raw right now. 

[jjgallow]

2 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Not sure I can handle watching Mantha not care in Flames silks.

 

The way to do it is supplement it by watching Wranglers games.

 

Mantha's helping our rebuild.  Just try not to think about how.

 

Wranglers should be interesting this year.   And REALLY interesting in the following years.

 

I was fine with all we witnessed.   

 

Except...  I worry about placing all our hopes in Wolf.   I would prefer to place exactly Half our hopes in Wolf, and get one more elite goalie.   Around that age or 1-2 years younger.  Even if we gotta trade for them.

[travel_dude]

30 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

I watched the game, The only standout, which was remote, was Zary. Mantha man never understood why anyone over 6 foot 2 and 200 plus pounds plays softer than a pillow. Get after it. Bru struggled, but you can see the talent. He was left out to dry on most of the goals, but he had some good moments. Tinordi is a tire fire. He would be a great asset for the tank crowd.  Corronto struggled, Pelts was invisible again, Schwindt was moderately noticeable, Rooney was as advertised, Morton like his motor, he is on the cusp. Really 4th line Center I can see them keeping Rooney, Although I would not be opposed to Schwindt and Morton either but I would send them down. I can see Corronto, Morton, Schwindt, Bru. tinordi, Frk getting sent down , Pelts has to get waived or traded, he just isn't a bottom 6 guy. I see Barrie getting a contract though. If Bru was a little more seasoned I could see the Flames choosing him over Barrie, but he is a little to raw right now. 

 

Frk was waived so no thought there.  He's a good 13th or 14th F as he can bring it when called on.  Schwindt needs to go through waivers and a young C is a good target for any team, especially one like Utah or SJS or ANA.  Pelletier may not have earned anything, but he gets claimed by MTL with little question.  

 

For me, I think you keep Pellletier and Schwindt, waive Rooney and Tinordi.  

 

If I am looking at the team correctly, the top 12 players are:

Kadri, Sharky, Huberdeau, Zary, Pospisil, Kuzmenko

Coleman, Backlund, Mantha, Lomberg, Klapka, Coronato. 

 

That leaves Schwindt and Pelletier at 13 and 14.  Hunt, Rooney, Morton get sent down.  Hunt is a perfect grinder, but I think we have to retain some skill.  I have bolded the C's so there is a bit of an issue with the available C's unless Schwindt plays or you move Zary to C.  It's not ideal because it means one of Zary or Pospisil plays 4th line C.  The tradeoff is you are not exposing a player under 26.  Our future is not this year, so we have to hang onto players that can be here for 3-5 years.  

 

The top D shake out like this (IMHO):

Ras, Weegar, Miromanov, Bahl, Bean, Pachal, Barrie.  Kuznetsov is exempt, so no issue sending him down.  Hanley is a 33 year old stay at home D.  Waive him and send him down.  Cheap depth, but not a total loss is claimed.  

 

Still not sure what to do about Cooley.  Keep him till after Day 1?  Means you don't sign Barrie right away and maybe sneak Cooley down after rosters are set.  Or you send Coronato down to start.

[travel_dude]

13 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

The way to do it is supplement it by watching Wranglers games.

 

Mantha's helping our rebuild.  Just try not to think about how.

 

Wranglers should be interesting this year.   And REALLY interesting in the following years.

 

I was fine with all we witnessed.   

 

Except...  I worry about placing all our hopes in Wolf.   I would prefer to place exactly Half our hopes in Wolf, and get one more elite goalie.   Around that age or 1-2 years younger.  Even if we gotta trade for them.

 

We have 4 goalies in the system right now that could be good for a long time.  Ignatjew is the wild card for me.  I know it's just camp but he has played as well as the other two not named Vladar.  For Vladar, I'm more just not convinced he is a starter.  I think he can win as many games as he did in his best season here.  Wolf has an adjustment because he doesn't have the time playing with this new crew.  They have to know that leaving him out to dry is not a good thing right now.  Have your plays ready so the G only needs one touch to the D.  

 

With the current goalies you have to ride it a bit to see what it looks like.  Trading for an elite prospect is going to cost a 1st in this or next year.  Do you want to go there?  

[jjgallow]

28 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

We have 4 goalies in the system right now that could be good for a long time.  Ignatjew is the wild card for me.  I know it's just camp but he has played as well as the other two not named Vladar.  For Vladar, I'm more just not convinced he is a starter.  I think he can win as many games as he did in his best season here.  Wolf has an adjustment because he doesn't have the time playing with this new crew.  They have to know that leaving him out to dry is not a good thing right now.  Have your plays ready so the G only needs one touch to the D.  

 

With the current goalies you have to ride it a bit to see what it looks like.  Trading for an elite prospect is going to cost a 1st in this or next year.  Do you want to go there?  

 

And by no means am I bashing Wolf who was 100% left out to dry, and has like 8 years to hit his prime and win Vezina/Stanley. 

 

Just saying, he's not a Sure thing.  No disrespect to him.  

 

Would I spend a 1st?  If you're building out from the net, that means you need the goalie situation handled before anything else, so, for this position and this position only, yes I would.  Not a top-10 first.   but, a later 1st.

 

But, like, not a blanket "any goalie".    I thought too much was paid for Askarov as an example considering his struggles transitioning to North America.  We will see.

 

I would be okay with simply picking up Joshua Ravensbergen in 2025's draft if he checks out, much simpler than a trade.   He would be getting NHL-ready right around the very end of our rebuild.  He's probably the youngest I would consider.   Needs to be between his age and Wolf's age.

[travel_dude]

58 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

And by no means am I bashing Wolf who was 100% left out to dry, and has like 8 years to hit his prime and win Vezina/Stanley. 

 

Just saying, he's not a Sure thing.  No disrespect to him.  

 

Would I spend a 1st?  If you're building out from the net, that means you need the goalie situation handled before anything else, so, for this position and this position only, yes I would.  Not a top-10 first.   but, a later 1st.

 

But, like, not a blanket "any goalie".    I thought too much was paid for Askarov as an example considering his struggles transitioning to North America.  We will see.

 

I would be okay with simply picking up Joshua Ravensbergen in 2025's draft if he checks out, much simpler than a trade.   He would be getting NHL-ready right around the very end of our rebuild.  He's probably the youngest I would consider.   Needs to be between his age and Wolf's age.

 

So we have a crop of goalies in various stages of development, much like Askarov is.  We have some D that look to be good ones early in their careers.  Some decent F that may be draft steals and ones on their way.  Hard to say what we need right now in the coming drafts.

 

This year we either lose our own pick or we lose the FLA one.  If we keep our pick, it's top 10.  I would be a bit leery using a top 10 pick on a 2nd year WHL G.  He has okayed his entire hockey career in BC.  Nothing wrong with that, but I would like to see someone with a bit more varied experience.  Is he a Mason MacDonald or a Wallstedt.  A Saros or a Ramo.

[Otown72]

We have a good lot of young forwards that have earned a spot but not enough spots available.

Some deserving will get sent down. Coronato might just because he h

Is still exempt over guys like Scwindt and Pelts.

We have to wait and see if Mantha deserves the spot he is given.