2024 Free Agency

[travel_dude]

6 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

Personally I'd trade Vladar..If the return expectations aren't too high I'd say he's highly moveable . Teams like Colorado , Winnipeg, even Toronto will need a low cap hit backup who has shown he can win some games . The next best step in Wolf's development is going to be 20-25 backup games ..a handful against tougher opponents ..but behind a vet who can carry the load . I sound like a broken record but Talbot would be my prototype for that 

 

This assumes that we either don't trade Markstrom or we trade him and also sign Talbot.

For it to work, we have to:

- trade Markstrom before FA

- trade Vladar once we sign Talbot in FA

 

I'm not sure Vladar's value is there right now.  Hasn't been solid, so teams can find better without giving up assets.

I think he has a better chance of thriving if he isn't playing under the shade of Markstrom.

And it either gives us a solid 1-2 punch, or we learn what we have and where we are.

[phoenix66]

1 minute ago, travel_dude said:

 

This assumes that we either don't trade Markstrom or we trade him and also sign Talbot.

For it to work, we have to:

- trade Markstrom before FA

- trade Vladar once we sign Talbot in FA

 

I'm not sure Vladar's value is there right now.  Hasn't been solid, so teams can find better without giving up assets.

I think he has a better chance of thriving if he isn't playing under the shade of Markstrom.

And it either gives us a solid 1-2 punch, or we learn what we have and where we are.

💯.. this starts with the assumption Marky is gone . 

If Marky isn't traded at the draft I don't think he gets traded at all . 

For sure if we start the season with Marky it needs to come with a statement from Connie that he is off the block .to stop all the constant media distractions 

But I do believe he's gone before they pack up after day 2 

[travel_dude]

10 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

💯.. this starts with the assumption Marky is gone . 

If Marky isn't traded at the draft I don't think he gets traded at all . 

For sure if we start the season with Marky it needs to come with a statement from Connie that he is off the block .to stop all the constant media distractions 

But I do believe he's gone before they pack up after day 2 

 

I just think there is too much smoke for JM to return this fall.

Perhaps the talked have stalled a bit (unconfirmed), but that doesn't mean they are done.

Too many teams got to the playoffs and lost.

Too many were close and got beat out by a few losses.

 

I don't think the draft is the place it happens, unless there is a team whose draft list got plundered too soon.

Philly has Erson and untested KHL goalie.  And they pick 12th.

LA has #21 and they could be looking hard at replacing the old with an old.

There was speculation that JM wouldn't waive to go there at TDL, but no proof of that.

LA might be a better target for 2025 1st and Kalyiev.

[conundrumed]

54 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Doubt anyone wants Vladar even if he's on waivers for free.  He was one of the worst goalies in the NHL last season.

 

Not sure if any goalie wants to sign here if they had a choice.  I don't see why Talbot would come back here to Calgary.

 

As of now, we have two goalies signed for next season and it's Vladar and Wolf.  So Vladar is default punching bag vet to play 60-games.  Ease Wolf in with about 20 starts.

He required hip surgery. So the question is really, how long was that going on for?

We don't know the answer, but the org definitely should. Did it impact his play, and for how long? We just don't know.

[cross16]

Vladar hasn't been very good since his first year here, and even then he was only OK that season. I think the Flames have been trying to move Vladar for 2 seasons now and continue to find no takers so coming off hip surgery I'd be very surprised if anyone was going to give you anything of value. 

 

I don't see the upside to running anything but Vladar/Wolf. 

[robrob74]

4 hours ago, phoenix66 said:

The Debrusk rumor is intriguing , we'll see on that.

My top targets would be Monahan and Duclair.

When healthy Monahan can add finish and defense to that top line .Stephenson can fit here as well 

Duclair has shown chemistry with Huberdeau and at the same time help whoever is #3 on that line ( Pelletier?) build that same chemistry .

I think the key somewhere is to get a top line that moves Huberdeau to the 2nd line where he has had the bulk of his career success.. facing fewer top pair D coverage 

 

There are plenty of reliable D available ..Forbort immediately comes to mind 

 

And in the event Markstrom is gone , then Talbot jumps into my target list 

 

 

 

I do wonder if the Flames are keeping too tight a leash on Huberdeau's playing style, or whether it is just the personnel he's playing with, maybe both. But being a bit of a different system than what he was used to in Florida is probably playing a part in it. It's almost like you gotta handicap his totals for the type of system, much like maybe they do with OHL to WHL to QMJHL? It's just a theory, but I wonder how much creativity is permitted in the system.

[robrob74]

7 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Vladar hasn't been very good since his first year here, and even then he was only OK that season. I think the Flames have been trying to move Vladar for 2 seasons now and continue to find no takers so coming off hip surgery I'd be very surprised if anyone was going to give you anything of value. 

 

I don't see the upside to running anything but Vladar/Wolf. 

 

Vladar had good mechanics in his first year. I could see why they thought he'd be someone to work his way up. Oddly enough, goalies seem to not reach their potential in the system. It's an opinion, but I think he's got the mechanics, much like Rittich did, to be a goalie, but for some reason they have moved away from them. 

[phoenix66]

7 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

 

I do wonder if the Flames are keeping too tight a leash on Huberdeau's playing style, or whether it is just the personnel he's playing with, maybe both. But being a bit of a different system than what he was used to in Florida is probably playing a part in it. It's almost like you gotta handicap his totals for the type of system, much like maybe they do with OHL to WHL to QMJHL? It's just a theory, but I wonder how much creativity is permitted in the system.

I think the biggest thing with Huberdeau..as with any elite player .. is you need players who both understand how to play with him and who also are capable of it .

Much of Hubies plays are instinctive..his linemates have to trust that if they just get into the open that pass will find them ..  they need to create space and get to the net .. many times ive seen him make a brilliant pass into open territory and nobody is there for it ..or they weren't expecting it ..

Near the end he was building something with both kuzmenko and Sharky. That was promising.. Bennet looked like a 1c from the minute he got to Florida ..that's cuz Bennett does not drive play as a center ..he gets to the net and needs a skill guy to get him the shot.. something only Johnny could do here but he was never going to be the 1c in Calgary 

 

Also .. he was predominant on the 2nd line in Florida ..he saw less of the top pair and shutdown D's

 

I think we missed out on seeing him with Pelletier last season..  pelts stayed and trained with him all last offseason .. then got hurt early in preseason .. 

 

If we could get a duclair and a center that likes to shoot first and can understand him I think you'd see him back to form 

[cross16]

45 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

 

I do wonder if the Flames are keeping too tight a leash on Huberdeau's playing style, or whether it is just the personnel he's playing with, maybe both. But being a bit of a different system than what he was used to in Florida is probably playing a part in it. It's almost like you gotta handicap his totals for the type of system, much like maybe they do with OHL to WHL to QMJHL? It's just a theory, but I wonder how much creativity is permitted in the system.

 

I agree. 

 

There is not enough creativity in the O zone and in particular the Flames are really poor in rush offense. That's where Huberdeau made his living in Florida. 

 

he should still be good for 70ish points plus even how the Flames play, but if you want PPG or better I don't think you can get there with a better rush offence. 

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

 

I do wonder if the Flames are keeping too tight a leash on Huberdeau's playing style, or whether it is just the personnel he's playing with, maybe both. But being a bit of a different system than what he was used to in Florida is probably playing a part in it. It's almost like you gotta handicap his totals for the type of system, much like maybe they do with OHL to WHL to QMJHL? It's just a theory, but I wonder how much creativity is permitted in the system.

 

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

I agree. 

 

There is not enough creativity in the O zone and in particular the Flames are really poor in rush offense. That's where Huberdeau made his living in Florida. 

 

he should still be good for 70ish points plus even how the Flames play, but if you want PPG or better I don't think you can get there with a better rush offence. 

 

For this team to have a decent rush game, they need play drivers.

I find Kuz and Huberdeau to both be cerebral once they are in the zone, and make some good plays, but it's either on a O-zone faceoff win or at the end of a long zone entry or one that takes some time to gain control after a dump in.  Maybe I am just remembering things that stood out, like Kuzmenko dancing around with the puck on a string or seam passes from Huberdeau that are just a tip-in away from a goal.

 

Maybe those suggesting Duclair have something.  The guy was at his best playing with Huberdeau.  Huberdeau had a career year with him.  He's 28 so he's young enough to be here for some time, assuming that we want to sign him longer term.

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

Can I just say.......hard no on Duclair. You can romanticize his time with Hubie all you want but that one season was an outlier (for Hubie too) even in the Panthers system, and 8 teams in 9 years raises alot of red flags for me.

 

[phoenix66]

25 minutes ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

Can I just say.......hard no on Duclair. You can romanticize his time with Hubie all you want but that one season was an outlier (for Hubie too) even in the Panthers system, and 8 teams in 9 years raises alot of red flags for me.

 

I think he's the perfect target.. the chemistry factor.. he's not likely to cost much in terms of $ and term,  he got injured the year after Hubie left but still came back with 24 goals last year .. it's basically a no lose situation..  even if he doesnt pan out all it cost was a contract .and likely a short cheap one at that 

[cross16]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

 

For this team to have a decent rush game, they need play drivers.

I find Kuz and Huberdeau to both be cerebral once they are in the zone, and make some good plays, but it's either on a O-zone faceoff win or at the end of a long zone entry or one that takes some time to gain control after a dump in.  Maybe I am just remembering things that stood out, like Kuzmenko dancing around with the puck on a string or seam passes from Huberdeau that are just a tip-in away from a goal.

 

Maybe those suggesting Duclair have something.  The guy was at his best playing with Huberdeau.  Huberdeau had a career year with him.  He's 28 so he's young enough to be here for some time, assuming that we want to sign him longer term.

 

Play drivers don't really matter if your system does not allow for a productive rush offense. As long as the Flames play 5 men down low in the d zone, utilize low center play for their breakout, and promote dump and chase your not going to have a good rush offense. 

 

There is a chicken vs the egg argument there for in the sense of is it players that determine how Huska plays or is this how Huska wants to play. I can't answer the obviously but I think the lack of rush offense is more of a systematic thing then a player thing. 

 

 

[Thebrewcrew]

With Duclair, I think it’s worth noting that it’s approaching three seasons, since he played with Huberdeau.

 

I don’t think he is the “Huberdeau fixer” I think they both benefitted from playing behind Barkov. They weren’t facing the oppositions best, the Barkov line was.

[travel_dude]

36 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Play drivers don't really matter if your system does not allow for a productive rush offense. As long as the Flames play 5 men down low in the d zone, utilize low center play for their breakout, and promote dump and chase your not going to have a good rush offense. 

 

There is a chicken vs the egg argument there for in the sense of is it players that determine how Huska plays or is this how Huska wants to play. I can't answer the obviously but I think the lack of rush offense is more of a systematic thing then a player thing. 

 

 

 

Do you think that Huska is very much an extension of Sutter style?  I've heard it boiled down to that, but maybe a bit too simple.  With Sutter, you had Gaudreau/Lindy/Tkachuk executing rushes.  That was a line that did a lot on the rush, no?  The loss of two of three and now all three maybe made the dump more common.  

[travel_dude]

3 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

With Duclair, I think it’s worth noting that it’s approaching three seasons, since he played with Huberdeau.

 

I don’t think he is the “Huberdeau fixer” I think they both benefitted from playing behind Barkov. They weren’t facing the oppositions best, the Barkov line was.

 

I think that Duclair's output was fine even after leaving the team.

It doesn't matter so myuch if he fixes Huberdeau as gove them options.

No trade required, so it's adding an asset for just money.

Maybe he is fine with a one year deal.

 

Duclair doesn't seem to have off years.

He seems to be averaging about 0.5 to 0.6 p/gp.

That's as good as most of our players were last year.

[Thebrewcrew]

9 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I think that Duclair's output was fine even after leaving the team.

It doesn't matter so myuch if he fixes Huberdeau as gove them options.

No trade required, so it's adding an asset for just money.

Maybe he is fine with a one year deal.

 

Duclair doesn't seem to have off years.

He seems to be averaging about 0.5 to 0.6 p/gp.

That's as good as most of our players were last year.

For a guy that's bounced around quite a bit, I think Duclair ends up with the team giving him the most term.

 

This will be his 9th team. Probably wants some stability. 

[robrob74]

3 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

Play drivers don't really matter if your system does not allow for a productive rush offense. As long as the Flames play 5 men down low in the d zone, utilize low center play for their breakout, and promote dump and chase your not going to have a good rush offense. 

 

There is a chicken vs the egg argument there for in the sense of is it players that determine how Huska plays or is this how Huska wants to play. I can't answer the obviously but I think the lack of rush offense is more of a systematic thing then a player thing. 

 

 

something to consider is any new players have to learn to play the system 

[phoenix66]

4 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Do you think that Huska is very much an extension of Sutter style?  I've heard it boiled down to that, but maybe a bit too simple.  With Sutter, you had Gaudreau/Lindy/Tkachuk executing rushes.  That was a line that did a lot on the rush, no?  The loss of two of three and now all three maybe made the dump more common.  

For whatever reason , the offense Savard was supposed to coach last year didn't mesh too well with the pieces he had .. but I do know when Zary played his first game , first thing I saw was somebody who entered the zone as well as Johnny used to .. so we definitely have the horses to play an entry game 

Part of me thinks there was a conflict with Savard wanting a offense first ..worry about defense later approach while Huska still wants that awareness of defense .. 

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, phoenix66 said:

For whatever reason , the offense Savard was supposed to coach last year didn't mesh too well with the pieces he had .. but I do know when Zary played his first game , first thing I saw was somebody who entered the zone as well as Johnny used to .. so we definitely have the horses to play an entry game 

Part of me thinks there was a conflict with Savard wanting a offense first ..worry about defense later approach while Huska still wants that awareness of defense .. 

really, it's a matter of getting a few more who can enter the zone. The problem when Johnny was here, we didn't have enough and once you shut him down you shut the Flames down. That's not on him.

 

its why patience is important  this time around. 

[phoenix66]

7 hours ago, robrob74 said:

really, it's a matter of getting a few more who can enter the zone. The problem when Johnny was here, we didn't have enough and once you shut him down you shut the Flames down. That's not on him.

 

its why patience is important  this time around. 

Couldn't agree more .. tbh I don't think I appreciated Johnny's entries until he was gone ..took it for granted. But you are right it needs to be multi-headed . I think we have players that can do it ..need more .. but at the same time somehow Savard didn't get it done . 

[robrob74]

48 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I just think there is too much smoke for JM to return this fall.

Perhaps the talked have stalled a bit (unconfirmed), but that doesn't mean they are done.

Too many teams got to the playoffs and lost.

Too many were close and got beat out by a few losses.

 

I don't think the draft is the place it happens, unless there is a team whose draft list got plundered too soon.

Philly has Erson and untested KHL goalie.  And they pick 12th.

LA has #21 and they could be looking hard at replacing the old with an old.

There was speculation that JM wouldn't waive to go there at TDL, but no proof of that.

LA might be a better target for 2025 1st and Kalyiev.

 

It might be good to get another 1st for next year's draft, as Montreal might be taking that one. 

[travel_dude]

20 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

It might be good to get another 1st for next year's draft, as Montreal might be taking that one. 

 

I hate the uncertainty of that trade.  We know MTL is not entitled this year to take it.  Next year is a bunch of conditions on two teams' 1st rounders.  It gives me a headache.  We tank, FLA tanks, we both tank, neither tanks.  The sub scenarios get even more complicated and I don't even want to think about them.  Suffice to say that either we have a top 10 pick in 2025 and FLA does not OR we both do not have top 10 picks.

[phoenix66]

Interesting..  3x $3.6 remaining.. not awful..  likely won't do much better in UFA if they buy him out .. but the NYR could be tempted to pay to take the contract , full cap hit in year 3 of the 6 year buyout .. but he can say no trade to 15 teams .. I'd say 0% chance were not on it 

He has a skillset we can use 

 

 

[cross16]

On 6/17/2024 at 5:39 PM, travel_dude said:

 

Do you think that Huska is very much an extension of Sutter style?  I've heard it boiled down to that, but maybe a bit too simple.  With Sutter, you had Gaudreau/Lindy/Tkachuk executing rushes.  That was a line that did a lot on the rush, no?  The loss of two of three and now all three maybe made the dump more common.  

 

Depends what you mean by "style". I think they are pretty different. I think Huska, like a lot of young coaches, coached too conservatively last year.  Hopefully we say that change. 

 

for sure that line was excellent in all areas, they wre one of the best lines in hockey but Johnny Gaudreau is a cheat code when it comes to transition. Not surprising that the Flames have struggled since he left and that Sutter made changes after they lost them.