Realistic (and unrealistic) Trades - 2024 Edition

[phoenix66]

4 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Lundell was huge for them in last year's run.  I really doubt they trade him even though he's a former top pick that's blocked on the depth chart.

 

I haven't been following Spencer Knight but is he so bad that he's been sent to the AHL?  If we trade Markstrom, then it would be nice to have some insurance around Wolf (in case he doesn't pan out).  From what I know, Knight is low IQ and relies on his angles and being big.  But could we develop him into a starter?  Maybe he's a piece we should consider.

Don't know the full details but it was connected to mental health issues last year ..they started him there to get him back to form ..

I could see him as a possibility..just not sure what his progress is or if we'd have the option of putting him in the A again..he's likely waiver exempt last year 

[travel_dude]

Maybe it's the process with M-NTC I hate, but this drama is so annoying for all involved.  Who cares where he wants to go, he has a list of 8 teams he won't go to.  Get the best offer and make the move.  Let that team worry about signing him.  Roll out the red carpet for him if you want him.  Vegas did it for Stone.  There's no guarantee that the place he wants to go to the most will re-sign him.

 

Teams like FLA, BOS, VGK need him now and should pay.

[phoenix66]

1 minute ago, travel_dude said:

Maybe it's the process with M-NTC I hate, but this drama is so annoying for all involved.  Who cares where he wants to go, he has a list of 8 teams he won't go to.  Get the best offer and make the move.  Let that team worry about signing him.  Roll out the red carpet for him if you want him.  Vegas did it for Stone.  There's no guarantee that the place he wants to go to the most will re-sign him.

 

Teams like FLA, BOS, VGK need him now and should pay.

They're definitely not handcuffed on actually moving him.. it's that the word is teams not on his preferred list are now offering garbage essentially cuz they know he's only a rental.. at the end of the day when noon Friday rolls around the best offer wins .. the difficulty is maximizing the return 

It's like a game of chicken.. in my opinion Connie wins if he ships him to a bottom feeder and costs him and his agent the 8th year. 

Ship him to Arizona for valimaki and a pick If you have to 

[travel_dude]

9 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Lundell was huge for them in last year's run.  I really doubt they trade him even though he's a former top pick that's blocked on the depth chart.

 

I haven't been following Spencer Knight but is he so bad that he's been sent to the AHL?  If we trade Markstrom, then it would be nice to have some insurance around Wolf (in case he doesn't pan out).  From what I know, Knight is low IQ and relies on his angles and being big.  But could we develop him into a starter?  Maybe he's a piece we should consider.

 

As a cap dump, we could consider him.  He has term and salary as well as buried penalty.

Not often does a waiver exempt player have a buried penalty.

Having him and Wolf battling it out wouldn help both.

At least on the surface.

But that only makes sense if we have traded Markstrom now.

 

So, if you are trading Hanifin for Lundell and Knight plus something else, you better have already dealt Markstrom.  Which is fine, just not a lot of time.  Maybe it's Lundel + Mikkola + Knight.  Sounds like a lot but that's how FLA rolls.  This isn;t the Tkachuk deal, but it could be as impactful to them.  They don't need Mikkola if they get Hanifin.  Lundell is a luxury and would be hamstrung with his contract, not so much this coming year, but in the future.  Their window is open today.  It may be the next 3 years that it starts to close up.  Lundell doesn't keep it open longer, at least not by itself.

[travel_dude]

6 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

They're definitely not handcuffed on actually moving him.. it's that the word is teams not on his preferred list are now offering garbage essentially cuz they know he's only a rental.. at the end of the day when noon Friday rolls around the best offer wins .. the difficulty is maximizing the return 

It's like a game of chicken.. in my opinion Connie wins if he ships him to a bottom feeder and costs him and his agent the 8th year. 

Ship him to Arizona for valimaki and a pick If you have to 

 

Preferred list is a bunch of speculation of insiders.  Maybe his agent leaked it to get that team to up the bid but I tend to think it's someone trying to lower the competition.  Nefarious people.  Almost like bid rigging.  LOL.  Ultimately, every TDL deal is a rental.  FLA is not the only team to have paid a ton and not re-signed a player.  An astute GM gets word from the agent about it, assuming we allow it.

[phoenix66]

1 minute ago, travel_dude said:

 

As a cap dump, we could consider him.  He has term and salary as well as buried penalty.

Not often does a waiver exempt player have a buried penalty.

Having him and Wolf battling it out wouldn help both.

At least on the surface.

But that only makes sense if we have traded Markstrom now.

 

So, if you are trading Hanifin for Lundell and Knight plus something else, you better have already dealt Markstrom.  Which is fine, just not a lot of time.  Maybe it's Lundel + Mikkola + Knight.  Sounds like a lot but that's how FLA rolls.  This isn;t the Tkachuk deal, but it could be as impactful to them.  They don't need Mikkola if they get Hanifin.  Lundell is a luxury and would be hamstrung with his contract, not so much this coming year, but in the future.  Their window is open today.  It may be the next 3 years that it starts to close up.  Lundell doesn't keep it open longer, at least not by itself.

Yep.. if his head is right I'd love to have a tandem of knight and wolf .. if I'm not mistaken, it was the same draft they came from ..knight was the stud and wolf as too small.. the bury penalty speak of is anything over a million ..anything above stays on your cap. Makes $3.35 so I think that means $2.25 stays on your cap  

 

If Connie is smart..and I don't doubt he is ..he's playing the fact that Florida wants that 8th year as leverage 

[travel_dude]

3 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

Yep.. if his head is right I'd love to have a tandem of knight and wolf .. if I'm not mistaken, it was the same draft they came from ..knight was the stud and wolf as too small.. the bury penalty speak of is anything over a million ..anything above stays on your cap. Makes $3.35 so I think that means $2.25 stays on your cap  

 

If Connie is smart..and I don't doubt he is ..he's playing the fact that Florida wants that 8th year as leverage 

 

Not quite.  3.35 is the buried penalty.

4.5 is the salary.

It's a huge risk

[phoenix66]

2 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Preferred list is a bunch of speculation of insiders.  Maybe his agent leaked it to get that team to up the bid but I tend to think it's someone trying to lower the competition.  Nefarious people.  Almost like bid rigging.  LOL.  Ultimately, every TDL deal is a rental.  FLA is not the only team to have paid a ton and not re-signed a player.  An astute GM gets word from the agent about it, assuming we allow it.

Oh 💯..  believable word out there is it's his agent telling interested teams he will only be a rental ..  it's slimy ..yes .. but GM's do it too in UFA .. no way to police it ..

Call an agent.  Chat about the weather ..just slip in " hey if is was looking for a RSD this summer .. what the market like on players like that " 

[The_People1]

11 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

As a cap dump, we could consider him.  He has term and salary as well as buried penalty.

Not often does a waiver exempt player have a buried penalty.

Having him and Wolf battling it out wouldn help both.

At least on the surface.

But that only makes sense if we have traded Markstrom now.

 

So, if you are trading Hanifin for Lundell and Knight plus something else, you better have already dealt Markstrom.  Which is fine, just not a lot of time.  Maybe it's Lundel + Mikkola + Knight.  Sounds like a lot but that's how FLA rolls.  This isn;t the Tkachuk deal, but it could be as impactful to them.  They don't need Mikkola if they get Hanifin.  Lundell is a luxury and would be hamstrung with his contract, not so much this coming year, but in the future.  Their window is open today.  It may be the next 3 years that it starts to close up.  Lundell doesn't keep it open longer, at least not by itself.

 

There's no Lundell coming back.

 

We're probably looking at Knight + 2026 1st.

[phoenix66]

Just now, travel_dude said:

 

Not quite.  3.35 is the buried penalty.

4.5 is the salary.

It's a huge risk

Thanks .. read that wrong 

[phoenix66]

4 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

There's no Lundell coming back.

 

We're probably looking at Knight + 2026 1st.

It will be interesting to see . My gut says at this point now it's going to be underwhelming.. people will whine ...but all we can be certain of is he took the best deal .

I had some respect for hanifin at the start of the season, thought he was playing it up front .. now he's essentially being selfish and hurting the team on the way out .. god riddance..addition by subtraction 

[phoenix66]

15 hours ago, cross16 said:

IMO this supports what I was saying. I don’t think Markstrom waived nor did ownership nix a deal.  he simply didn’t like the emotional roller coaster of being told he might go and then changing course. 
 

what’s interesting about that to me, is the only reason to be upset is if he did actually want to go to NJ

 

 

This is why I like Friedman..makes way more sense .

Players ask for NMC first , to obviously have control over where you play.. second , to avoid the garbage of rumors at the deadline.. 

He got thrust into the fire .. which he never wanted .. gor led to believe it might actually happen..only to then be pulled back out 

 

This is why Big Lou has a no leak policy.. if it hits media ..deals are dead .. 

[cross16]

2 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

The thing about Zito, he goes out and gets what he wants.

 

The expectation on a Sam Bennett return from many was a 3rd. Zito paid a 2nd and a prospect that was a recent 2nd.

 

When Tkachuk was going to be traded, he crushed the Canes and Blues offers. 

 

I see that but he also does a good job of giving up pieces he can afford to. The Tkachuk trade was a lot but giving the UFA status of Huberdeau and Weegar it wasn’t nearly as much as it appears on the surface. He’s in a competitive window so he can afford to move picks and prospects. 
 

I don’t think they can afford to trade Lundell and im pretty skeptical they need to also. 

[cross16]

34 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

There's no Lundell coming back.

 

We're probably looking at Knight + 2026 1st.

this wouldn’t surprise me. Knight fits the bill of what Conroy has talked about trading for and imo hasn’t fallen into cap dump yet. There is a lot of talent there still. 
 

I could see him being the key part of the return here. 

[Thebrewcrew]

2 minutes ago, cross16 said:

this wouldn’t surprise me. Knight fits the bill of what Conroy has talked about trading for and imo hasn’t fallen into cap dump yet. There is a lot of talent there still. 
 

I could see him being the key part of the return here. 

I'd be fine with Samoskevich. Played with Coronato on the Steel. Still need to add some RHS forwards, one way or another. 

 

Not sure that Knight makes a ton of sense, unless they're trading Markstrom this week. He's an .898 in 36 AHL games this year. 

 

[phoenix66]

4 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I'd be fine with Samoskevich. Played with Coronato on the Steel. Still need to add some RHS forwards, one way or another. 

 

Not sure that Knight makes a ton of sense, unless they're trading Markstrom this week. He's an .898 in 36 AHL games this year. 

 

Assuming knight is a return (he's not my top choice ).. he's already in the A . We can just leave thim there ..that gives us all summer to make moves and decisions..

 

I don't like it ..but after all the garbage I think markstrom is now much more likely to be moved in the summer ..  that sets up a possible Knight/Wolf tandem next year which id be ok with if it came to that 

[cross16]

25 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I'd be fine with Samoskevich. Played with Coronato on the Steel. Still need to add some RHS forwards, one way or another. 

 

Not sure that Knight makes a ton of sense, unless they're trading Markstrom this week. He's an .898 in 36 AHL games this year. 

 

Im operating under the assumption Markstrom isn’t going to be a flame by the end of summer(at the latest) because he shouldn’t be. 
 

I don’t love Knight as part of the return but I’m not that optimistic we are going to like the return so might as well pick up a talented player who might pay off down the road. 

[travel_dude]

1 minute ago, phoenix66 said:

Assuming knight is a return (he's not my top choice ).. he's already in the A . We can just leave thim there ..that gives us all summer to make moves and decisions..

 

I don't like it ..but after all the garbage I think markstrom is now much more likely to be moved in the summer ..  that sets up a possible Knight/Wolf tandem next year which id be ok with if it came to that 

 

We have two replacements for Markstrom right now and need to know what we have.

I don't see why you trade for Knight while you have Markstrom, since that would signal the end.

The noise around the "failed trade" is just noise and I think they are able to get past it.

But that means moving him now or not setting him up to leave this summer.

 

I think the more likely early outcome if we trade for Knight after moving Markstrom is a three headed monster.  WOuld allow us to choose between the 3 and dump the other.  

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, phoenix66 said:

This is why I like Friedman..makes way more sense .

Players ask for NMC first , to obviously have control over where you play.. second , to avoid the garbage of rumors at the deadline.. 

He got thrust into the fire .. which he never wanted .. gor led to believe it might actually happen..only to then be pulled back out 

 

This is why Big Lou has a no leak policy.. if it hits media ..deals are dead .. 

I don't get why they didn't say what he said last night when it first came out. There are times when being transparent can be beneficial and being transparent here might be that time. 

[JTech780]

Knight would be a high upside gamble type return. The biggest issue I would have with him, is I don’t think you can go with Knight and Wolf in the NHL next year. I will say I am not 100% sold on Wolf’s ability at the NHL level, I am not saying he can’t do it, just that the games I have seen him in he looks not just small in the net he looks tiny.

 

The problem with a Hanifin trade is trying to shoehorn him into teams that he is willing to re-sign with. Those teams either have no cap space and/or no picks or prospects.

 

He also has a an 8 team no trade list, I am assuming that he has submitted that already, and I am assuming that 6 of those teams are the other Canadian teams.

[phoenix66]

4 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

We have two replacements for Markstrom right now and need to know what we have.

I don't see why you trade for Knight while you have Markstrom, since that would signal the end.

The noise around the "failed trade" is just noise and I think they are able to get past it.

But that means moving him now or not setting him up to leave this summer.

 

I think the more likely early outcome if we trade for Knight after moving Markstrom is a three headed monster.  WOuld allow us to choose between the 3 and dump the other.  

I don't think it would make the Markstrom move imminent . It could signal the end of Vladar possibly..  the goal is to always get better . Adding some competition for Wolf isn't the worst thing .. "too much depth" means you can move pieces for assets . How many times have we been burned by " the next one " in our goalie system .. currently I consider Wolf untouchable so worst case Knight is highly moveable ..

[The_People1]

39 minutes ago, cross16 said:

I see that but he also does a good job of giving up pieces he can afford to. The Tkachuk trade was a lot but giving the UFA status of Huberdeau and Weegar it wasn’t nearly as much as it appears on the surface. He’s in a competitive window so he can afford to move picks and prospects. 
 

I don’t think they can afford to trade Lundell and im pretty skeptical they need to also. 

 

Yes.  FLA can definitely afford to trade Knight right now.  He's taking up cap space and not even on the team.  Plus, he's not going to outplay Bobrovsky for the next two years.

 

Lundell is an integral part of FLA's bottom 6 right now.  He's not an expendable piece.

 

The Flames needs to time this trade right though.  If we get Knight before we trade Markstrom then that's going to make it awkward for Markstrom (as if it isn't already).

[The_People1]

1 minute ago, phoenix66 said:

I don't think it would make the Markstrom move imminent . It could signal the end of Vladar possibly..  the goal is to always get better . Adding some competition for Wolf isn't the worst thing .. "too much depth" means you can move pieces for assets . How many times have we been burned by " the next one " in our goalie system .. currently I consider Wolf untouchable so worst case Knight is highly moveable ..

 

I've been very disappointed at Vladar this season.  He has been given opportunities to run with it but just didn't step up.  I hope he's gone soon.

[travel_dude]

5 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

I don't think it would make the Markstrom move imminent . It could signal the end of Vladar possibly..  the goal is to always get better . Adding some competition for Wolf isn't the worst thing .. "too much depth" means you can move pieces for assets . How many times have we been burned by " the next one " in our goalie system .. currently I consider Wolf untouchable so worst case Knight is highly moveable ..

 

Unless you move Vladar, what does it say to Markstrom?

$4.5M sitting in the A, you have a prospect, plus you have Vladar signed.

$12M tied up in goalies for longer than this year, not including Wolf.

 

[phoenix66]

6 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

I don't get why they didn't say what he said last night when it first came out. There are times when being transparent can be beneficial and being transparent here might be that time. 

I think this can be attributed to Rookie GM.. I don't think for one second the leak came from Calgary ..but he didn't get ahead of it.. 

A seasoned gm doesn't even ask the player until a deal is ready to be signed .. no ask , no leak ..all you have is " the devil's have inquired about Markstrom" .. much like Anderson and we saw how fast that died.. 

 

Or.. when you speak with the NJ gm , you advise them any leaks and talks are off .. that way you have 2 orgs putting the pressure on agents to keep their mouth shut..

 

Heard Doug Armstrong in a radio hit the other day..said when he was a rookie he talked deal with Pierre Lacroix ..who said to him " first rule is any leaks and all talks are off and I will never ever do a deal with you in the future either "