GDT - Flames @ Predators - Wednesday 22nd Nov 7pm MST

[A_Flame_in_Oiler_Land]

NICE SHORTY

[travel_dude]

Two goals came from plays that went behind the net.

One a bounce off the boards that ended up on a NAS stick.

One a gloved puck.

In both cases, Marky picked it up, but couldn't defend the 2nd try.

 

How about that Govich.

[conundrumed]

As much as I say teams have to win in spite of reffing, that was egregious. If Forsberg does that with his stick, it's I high stick. If it had have hit Markstrom's back and went in, it's a good goal?

Where's the outrage Huska? Take the Blockchaining fine to get media to harass the league for clarification.

That's now an allowable play, as reviewed by the league? Everyone should start doing it. Again, Huska, what more do you need to put a burr under your saddle? That was your chance.

 

[conundrumed]

5 hours ago, cross16 said:

the challenge was for a missed stoppage. Problem there is as soon as Weegar touched it it’s not longer a missed stoppage. 
 

it was a bad challenge. Someone either wasn’t clear on the rules or didn’t pay attention to the video 

 

not a big deal for me as they don’t really deserve this game anyway

Challenges shouldn't have to name a cause, just simply if there was an infraction on the play. That was Blockchained. Let's start doing it, all the time, just glove the puck to the highest danger area on the ice.

[cross16]

4 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Challenges shouldn't have to name a cause, just simply if there was an infraction on the play. That was Blockchained. Let's start doing it, all the time, just glove the puck to the highest danger area on the ice.

 

I don't disagree. Why i think replay has turned into actually more of a problem then a benefit. Have to keep creating stupid rules.

 

I'm just saying under the rules, it was a bad challenge. But I agree it was dumb that you have to challenge for a specific reason. When it comes to a goal all that should be necessary is was this goal scored legally. That's why I don't actually like replay. It's not about getting the calls/game right anymore, it's about following the letter of law, and because it keeps exposing little flaws in the law/rules they keep creating more to try and fix replay. Dumb situation IMO. 

 

NHL should just adopt the NFL standard and review all goals and then get rid of the coaches challenge. 

[travel_dude]

45 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

I don't disagree. Why i think replay has turned into actually more of a problem then a benefit. Have to keep creating stupid rules.

 

I'm just saying under the rules, it was a bad challenge. But I agree it was dumb that you have to challenge for a specific reason. When it comes to a goal all that should be necessary is was this goal scored legally. That's why I don't actually like replay. It's not about getting the calls/game right anymore, it's about following the letter of law, and because it keeps exposing little flaws in the law/rules they keep creating more to try and fix replay. Dumb situation IMO. 

 

NHL should just adopt the NFL standard and review all goals and then get rid of the coaches challenge. 

 

It's not a bad idea but it would kill momentum considering the speed that they make decisions.  Since there are teams that regularly challenge offsides, they would need to look at the beginning of each sequence to find any offside.  It might go back minutes of game action.  Or they have to make an immediate judgement call on goalie bumping or high sticks.  Those last two take forever as it is and rarely are 100% "correct".  They lean on the call on the ice and have to have perfect evidence to overturn.

 

They chose to challenge, but I think it was more to regroup.  Before the decision was made, we all saw enough evidence that it was an missed illegal play, but not one that they could challenge.  It was a simple decision from the war room.  The other types of allowed challenges are much more difficult.  Still can't see the puck even though you know it's past the line.  Still no goal.  

[cross16]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

It's not a bad idea but it would kill momentum considering the speed that they make decisions.  Since there are teams that regularly challenge offsides, they would need to look at the beginning of each sequence to find any offside.  It might go back minutes of game action.  Or they have to make an immediate judgement call on goalie bumping or high sticks.  Those last two take forever as it is and rarely are 100% "correct".  They lean on the call on the ice and have to have perfect evidence to overturn.

 

They chose to challenge, but I think it was more to regroup.  Before the decision was made, we all saw enough evidence that it was an missed illegal play, but not one that they could challenge.  It was a simple decision from the war room.  The other types of allowed challenges are much more difficult.  Still can't see the puck even though you know it's past the line.  Still no goal.  

 

Depends. In the NFL it's booth review so there are no needs for the Refs to do anything. Goal goes in, team reviews immediately so good chance that while the whole celebration goes on they can get an answer. Probably need to expand the war room though. 

 

It all depends on what the standard is. Personally if a play is offside and doesn't' relate in an immediate goal I don't think that should be overturned. For me the point of replay is to remove the egregious situations that led to goals. Someone being offside and a goal being scored 30 seconds to a min later to me is not egregious, it's just a missed call. Forsberg throwing the puck to the front of the net is an egregious situation that should be caught. 

 

So change the standard, not to reviewing the letter of law (ie offside) to if a goal is scored was the goal scored legally. Remove the rest. 

[The_People1]

7 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Challenges shouldn't have to name a cause, just simply if there was an infraction on the play. That was Blockchained. Let's start doing it, all the time, just glove the puck to the highest danger area on the ice.

 

Ya agreed challenges shouldn't need a reason.  If they are challenging a stoppage by high stick and the replay shows closing the glove on the puck or offside or touched by high stick etc, it should all be counted because at the end of the day, we want legit goals to count.

[travel_dude]

34 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Depends. In the NFL it's booth review so there are no needs for the Refs to do anything. Goal goes in, team reviews immediately so good chance that while the whole celebration goes on they can get an answer. Probably need to expand the war room though. 

 

It all depends on what the standard is. Personally if a play is offside and doesn't' relate in an immediate goal I don't think that should be overturned. For me the point of replay is to remove the egregious situations that led to goals. Someone being offside and a goal being scored 30 seconds to a min later to me is not egregious, it's just a missed call. Forsberg throwing the puck to the front of the net is an egregious situation that should be caught. 

 

So change the standard, not to reviewing the letter of law (ie offside) to if a goal is scored was the goal scored legally. Remove the rest. 

 

I really don't like the missed offside ones that were longer than 10 seconds prior.  Always seems like it was not the cause of the goals.  Those are the easy ones though.  There never seems to be any standard to the goalie interference one.  A goalie had a chance to reset?  Good goal.  Goalie bumped so he is facing the wrong way?  Good goal or no goal.  The worst thing about all those calls (not just NHL) is the call has to be definitive to overturn.  The 2004 Flames goal would never be conclusive enough to call it a goal.  At the time, I don't know that they had any way of signaling goal to Fraser.  Don't remember that kind of thing happening back then.  Then again I didn't see as many games then.  

 

Anyway, this one was no more annoying than a missed penalty resulting in a goal.  But, you would think 4 guys watching it would see it and blow it dead.  Blow it as a gloved pass, since at real time they makes calls like that every game.  They could call it a penalty after the whistle if they saw it at all.  Not as much argument over an extra whistle.  

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

Depends. In the NFL it's booth review so there are no needs for the Refs to do anything. Goal goes in, team reviews immediately so good chance that while the whole celebration goes on they can get an answer. Probably need to expand the war room though. 

 

It all depends on what the standard is. Personally if a play is offside and doesn't' relate in an immediate goal I don't think that should be overturned. For me the point of replay is to remove the egregious situations that led to goals. Someone being offside and a goal being scored 30 seconds to a min later to me is not egregious, it's just a missed call. Forsberg throwing the puck to the front of the net is an egregious situation that should be caught. 

 

So change the standard, not to reviewing the letter of law (ie offside) to if a goal is scored was the goal scored legally. Remove the rest. 

I think Leagues should do the whole stop play thing if anything IS illegal or a true goal.

 

Victory or loser points on the line, and possibly playoff series. Get it right!

[travel_dude]

16 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

I think Leagues should do the whole stop play thing if anything IS illegal or a true goal.

 

Victory or loser points on the line, and possibly playoff series. Get it right!

 

Well at least they do the blow the horn thing on missed goals.  In real time, to review every play as it happens would be tough.  Time to use AI?  

[robrob74]

7 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Well at least they do the blow the horn thing on missed goals.  In real time, to review every play as it happens would be tough.  Time to use AI?  

I wonder if they could just have an in-house goal judge that can review the plays and relay to the horn guy if something comes up. Like that year Hull won the cup, should not have counted!

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, robrob74 said:

I wonder if they could just have an in-house goal judge that can review the plays and relay to the horn guy if something comes up. Like that year Hull won the cup, should not have counted!

 

The in house guy pushes the red button.  I know what you mean, but they do review every near goal.  I don't think you can easily fix the problem.  For one thing, you rarely hear about it.  For another, the rules are dished by the refs and the video has to overturn their call.  If they boobed the call, it doesn't much matter, like in this case.  Can't change it.  They often miss calls.  I guy is looking for his teeth on the ice and they are looking at each other.  Did you see it?  Sometimes they huddle and call it after the fact.  Sometimes.  I don't buy it that nobody saw it.  I think it was queationable in their mind, so they let it go.  In this case, they said we dare ya to challenge.  We didn't see nothing.

 

You could probably get AI to review in real time.  Probably the mili-second it happened.  But that's not happening.