Matthew Coronato

[conundrumed]

13 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Not sure where this is coming from.  There wasn't really any drama to begin with.  Just discussions and sharing opinions.

Making up potential Gaudreau scenarios and being "extra careful" with Coronato.

It's just an ELC signing. No need to invent scenarios. He got the NHL deal because we may make the playoffs and we're one RW injury away from a major problem. So he can alleviate that concern and be a Black Ace.

Alternatively, Detroit signed Mazur to an AHL-tryout ELC because they have zero need for him on a non-playoff bound team.

There are no storylines to invent, just a wait and see how it goes.

[conundrumed]

3 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

I disagree with all of you.  You are all wrong, and I am right.

 

 

p.s.. I told you so.

Your crystal ball hasn't exactly been stalwart my guy,lol

[jjgallow]

2 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Your crystal ball hasn't exactly been stalwart my guy,lol

 

everyone in here take a chill pill and relax, not just conundrumed lol.

 

I was just joking.

 

We're all good.

 

Everything's good.

 

Besides

 

Gaudreau was short

[conundrumed]

8 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

everyone in here take a chill pill and relax, not just conundrumed lol.

 

I was just joking.

 

We're all good.

 

Everything's good.

 

Besides

 

Gaudreau was short

And he married a Meredith.lol Poor bastard.

This Wild vs Avs game is awesome!

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, conundrumed said:

And he married a Meredith.lol Poor bastard.

This Wild vs Avs game is awesome!

 

Not another Meredith marryer.

The world will come to an end.

[The_People1]

4 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Making up potential Gaudreau scenarios and being "extra careful" with Coronato.

It's just an ELC signing. No need to invent scenarios. He got the NHL deal because we may make the playoffs and we're one RW injury away from a major problem. So he can alleviate that concern and be a Black Ace.

Alternatively, Detroit signed Mazur to an AHL-tryout ELC because they have zero need for him on a non-playoff bound team.

There are no storylines to invent, just a wait and see how it goes.

 

Small market team.  Have to treat star prospects extra nice.  It's part of the protocol.

[cross16]

11 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

I see.  So...

 

Coronato could have said "NHL now is all I will sign", and Flames would have then been limited to those terms?

 

IF so, and I am not good with the contract metaverse, then that is almost forgiveable but imho it may not have been the smartest move Coronato ever made.  Time will tell.

 

They need to fix US College rules.  man.

 

Sort of...

For Coronato there was no option of signing an NHL deal or AHL deal, it's an NHL deal only and then it becomes a matter of where is he assigned. So no he could not have said "nhl is only where I'll sign" because the contract is the same whether he plays AHL or NHL. What he would have said is sign me now, as opposed to sign me next season, or i'm heading back. What contract he signs and then where he plays are 2 different things. The advantage to him signing right now is he is now a year closer to getting off his Entry level deal (which is a lower salary and lower potential to make money). 

 

This has nothing to do with US college rules these at standard entry level rules that everyone has to follow. Would apply to a European player CHL free agent etc. Comes down to their age and what leverage they have. 

 

10 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Is there truth to Murray Edwards calling Gaudreau at the very end and screamed at him for leading the Flames on?  That's the reaction I'm talking about.  Our side clearly didn't feel Gaudreau negotiated in good faith.  Simply wasted our time.

 

Not IMO. I believe Gaudreau did speak to Edwards but I don't' think he screamed at him. I don't doubt the Flames were mad, they thought they had a deal and as I understand it the agent told them that. 

 

I'm certainly not suggesting this was all above board but if we are trying to make the case that this was negotiated in bad faith or the Flames were led on that implies that Gaudreau did this intentionally. I have no reason to believe that was the case I do think the genuinely considered Calgary, he just put off the decision for as long as he could. 

 

If people define that as bad faith that's fair I guess but I don't and therefore it's weak to try and connect his 2nd contract negotiation to some sort of bad feelings that I just don't think existed. He has so many opportunities to get back at the Flames if that was his intention, why wait 6 years? 

 

Anyways best to move but at the end of the day I think this organization does a fantastic job of treating it's players so I think the concern level around what they will do with Coronato should be small. 

[travel_dude]

Funny that we are talking about the Gaudreau FA signing in CBJ in regards to Coronato.  All the signing shows me is that we had a NCAA prospect seemingly ready to take the next step.  Gaudreau wanted to complete his degree because he made a promise to family.  Coronato sees that the roster is going to have some turnover in the summer.  Signing now for the NHL shows the Flames are willing to burn a year and not just toss him to the AHL to play a few games.  The team there is set.  If he plays a NHL game or two now, then he has a leg up on knowing where he stands.  

 

As far as where he fits, hard to say.  What we need is good RW players and not force players into that spot.  If a LW can, great.  Not everyone is Tkachuk.  We need players on ELC or cheap contracts replacing more expensive ones.  I'm not sure we have the right coach to do this. 

[cross16]

As I recall it, the key motivation for Gaudreau going back for his 3rd year was he wanted to play with his brother Matthew, who was a freshman at BC at the time. 

 

[robrob74]

2 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

Sort of...

For Coronato there was no option of signing an NHL deal or AHL deal, it's an NHL deal only and then it becomes a matter of where is he assigned. So no he could not have said "nhl is only where I'll sign" because the contract is the same whether he plays AHL or NHL. What he would have said is sign me now, as opposed to sign me next season, or i'm heading back. What contract he signs and then where he plays are 2 different things. The advantage to him signing right now is he is now a year closer to getting off his Entry level deal (which is a lower salary and lower potential to make money). 

 

This has nothing to do with US college rules these at standard entry level rules that everyone has to follow. Would apply to a European player CHL free agent etc. Comes down to their age and what leverage they have. 

 

 

Not IMO. I believe Gaudreau did speak to Edwards but I don't' think he screamed at him. I don't doubt the Flames were mad, they thought they had a deal and as I understand it the agent told them that. 

 

I'm certainly not suggesting this was all above board but if we are trying to make the case that this was negotiated in bad faith or the Flames were led on that implies that Gaudreau did this intentionally. I have no reason to believe that was the case I do think the genuinely considered Calgary, he just put off the decision for as long as he could. 

 

If people define that as bad faith that's fair I guess but I don't and therefore it's weak to try and connect his 2nd contract negotiation to some sort of bad feelings that I just don't think existed. He has so many opportunities to get back at the Flames if that was his intention, why wait 6 years? 

 

Anyways best to move but at the end of the day I think this organization does a fantastic job of treating it's players so I think the concern level around what they will do with Coronato should be small. 

couldn't he have signed an ATO and played in the AHL playoffs? I'd have preferred that. But I think it's what JJ and Peeps are referring to, whether the NHL was the only option. Maybe the Flames will be playing meaningful hockey well into April and he'll get in and learn from it.

[cross16]

3 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

couldn't he have signed an ATO and played in the AHL playoffs? I'd have preferred that. But I think it's what JJ and Peeps are referring to, whether the NHL was the only option. Maybe the Flames will be playing meaningful hockey well into April and he'll get in and learn from it.

 

Not if his NHL deal starts now. The only way to sign an ATO would have been to have his NHL deal start next season and as I mentioned the risk with that was he goes back to school given he doesn't' really gain much by signing his deal starting next year. 

 

He had a say in this too. It's a negotiation. 

[jjgallow]

2 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

Sort of...

For Coronato there was no option of signing an NHL deal or AHL deal, it's an NHL deal only and then it becomes a matter of where is he assigned. So no he could not have said "nhl is only where I'll sign" because the contract is the same whether he plays AHL or NHL. What he would have said is sign me now, as opposed to sign me next season, or i'm heading back. What contract he signs and then where he plays are 2 different things. The advantage to him signing right now is he is now a year closer to getting off his Entry level deal (which is a lower salary and lower potential to make money). 

 

This has nothing to do with US college rules these at standard entry level rules that everyone has to follow. Would apply to a European player CHL free agent etc. Comes down to their age and what leverage they have. 

 

 

Ok.  So, if I understand correctly, Flames could have assigned him to the AHL or NHL on initial signing, and they chose the NHL.

 

To me, that is high risk.    However, we'll never know exactly what happened.  Ie., there could have been some agreements made outside of the contract.  I'll leave it there before going circular.

[cross16]

Just now, jjgallow said:

 

Ok.  So, if I understand correctly, Flames could have assigned him to the AHL or NHL on initial signing, and they chose the NHL.

 

To me, that is high risk.    However, we'll never know exactly what happened.  Ie., there could have been some agreements made outside of the contract.  I'll leave it there before going circular.

 

Not how it works no. Once he signed his NHL deal for this season he cannot be assigned to the AHL. 

 

Again the only way he was playing in the AHL this season was on a try out agreement and in order to be eligible for that he cannot be under an NHL contract.

[jjgallow]

9 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Not how it works no. Once he signed his NHL deal for this season he cannot be assigned to the AHL. 

 

Again the only way he was playing in the AHL this season was on a try out agreement and in order to be eligible for that he cannot be under an NHL contract.

 

ok lol.   I will settle at that.  Flames had to assign him to the NHL.  But not really.

 

But, they kinda did have to.

 

Maybe what I should have said instead of "fix the College rules", is, fix how the College and CHL rules work together.

 

Great we got him signed.  Really great.

 

Development wise, I think most of us know this is risky, though.  Way, way too risky.    

 

I'm gonna say it.... if there's a team out there other than the Flames who thinks he belongs in the NHL right now, and has a comparable prospect that can be developed properly...a trade worth considering.

[travel_dude]

28 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

ok lol.   I will settle at that.  Flames had to assign him to the NHL.  But not really.

 

But, they kinda did have to.

 

Maybe what I should have said instead of "fix the College rules", is, fix how the College and CHL rules work together.

 

Great we got him signed.  Really great.

 

Development wise, I think most of us know this is risky, though.  Way, way too risky.    

 

I'm gonna say it.... if there's a team out there other than the Flames who thinks he belongs in the NHL right now, and has a comparable prospect that can be developed properly...a trade worth considering.

 

Well, it's sort of the AHL as well, isn't it?

Even a ATO doesn't get him into the AHL playoffs, or even a guarantee to play AHL games this season.

 

The player had some leverage, and we either respected it or we decided to do it to get him exposed now.

Exposed to the game, the coaching, the practices, regardless of whether he plays 0, 1 or 7 games.

Exposed to the hunt for the playoffs.

 

Every player is different.

He's 20, not "18 year old Sam Bennett TM".

There is no set right way to develop the player.

And right now you are just project failure without knowing what the plan is or how he takes steps.

Yeah, why not trade him for a prospect to develop.  Makes total sense (sarcasm).

 

I do have to ask, do you think Gaudreau, Tkachuk and Bennett were development failures?

Usage and coaching failure maybe for Bennett.

[cross16]

1 hour ago, jjgallow said:

 

ok lol.   I will settle at that.  Flames had to assign him to the NHL.  But not really.

 

But, they kinda did have to.

 

Maybe what I should have said instead of "fix the College rules", is, fix how the College and CHL rules work together.

 

Great we got him signed.  Really great.

 

Development wise, I think most of us know this is risky, though.  Way, way too risky.    

 

I'm gonna say it.... if there's a team out there other than the Flames who thinks he belongs in the NHL right now, and has a comparable prospect that can be developed properly...a trade worth considering.

 

Then talk to the NCAA. Only reason this is a thing is the NCAA prohibits them from signing pro contracts because they would lose amateur status (even though college athletes are hardly amateur's anymore). CHL does not have the same rule and therefore players can sign deals at any point after they are drafted. This isn't an NHL problem. 

 

Literally no one knows this. to say this is "risky" is making up a problem that doesn't exist. This is about rules and contract procedures. 

 

This entire AHL thing is completely ridiculous because we are talking about a handful of games. There is nothing that prevents him from being in the AHL next season so the only issue here is a handful of AHL games. So now that he doesn't get to play a handful of AHL games it's going to impact his development?

 

Silly. 

[jjgallow]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

Well, it's sort of the AHL as well, isn't it?

Even a ATO doesn't get him into the AHL playoffs, or even a guarantee to play AHL games this season.

 

The player had some leverage, and we either respected it or we decided to do it to get him exposed now.

Exposed to the game, the coaching, the practices, regardless of whether he plays 0, 1 or 7 games.

Exposed to the hunt for the playoffs.

 

Every player is different.

He's 20, not "18 year old Sam Bennett TM".

There is no set right way to develop the player.

And right now you are just project failure without knowing what the plan is or how he takes steps.

Yeah, why not trade him for a prospect to develop.  Makes total sense (sarcasm).

 

I do have to ask, do you think Gaudreau, Tkachuk and Bennett were development failures?

Usage and coaching failure maybe for Bennett.

 

Oh, so everything you've been saying in the Darryl Sutter thread you were kidding about!

 

You totally had me

 

This is going to go really great

 

 

 

Baertschi, Backlund, Bennett, it was a bit odd that you left out Monahan lol.

 

Gaudreau wasn't developed here, was miles ahead, and was given another year.  Under Hartley, not Sutter.

He is an example of what happens when the Flames don't get a chance to ruin the prospect.

 

Out of everyone mentioned above, imho only Tkachuk reached his potential.

 

And he didn't do it here.

[jjgallow]

17 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Then talk to the NCAA. Only reason this is a thing is the NCAA prohibits them from signing pro contracts because they would lose amateur status (even though college athletes are hardly amateur's anymore). CHL does not have the same rule and therefore players can sign deals at any point after they are drafted. This isn't an NHL problem. 

 

Literally no one knows this. to say this is "risky" is making up a problem that doesn't exist. This is about rules and contract procedures. 

 

This entire AHL thing is completely ridiculous because we are talking about a handful of games. There is nothing that prevents him from being in the AHL next season so the only issue here is a handful of AHL games. So now that he doesn't get to play a handful of AHL games it's going to impact his development?

 

Silly. 

 

ok but why didn't you just SAY that lol.   That was my initial question, is how many games is he up here before he very likely goes to the AHL?    I tried to rephrase is like 3-4 times, I realize contracts are not my thing.

 

Right so the answer is "7 games" lol

 

So this thread is a waste of time then.   

 

Great signing, moving on

[cross16]

13 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

ok but why didn't you just SAY that lol.   That was my initial question, is how many games is he up here before he very likely goes to the AHL?    I tried to rephrase is like 3-4 times, I realize contracts are not my thing.

 

Right so the answer is "7 games" lol

 

So this thread is a waste of time then.   

 

Great signing, moving on

 

No he cannot play in the AHL at all this season and cannot be assigned to the roster. 

 

Next season he is eligible. 

[robrob74]

2 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

Oh, so everything you've been saying in the Darryl Sutter thread you were kidding about!

 

You totally had me

 

This is going to go really great

 

 

 

Baertschi, Backlund, Bennett, it was a bit odd that you left out Monahan lol.

 

Gaudreau wasn't developed here, was miles ahead, and was given another year.  Under Hartley, not Sutter.

He is an example of what happens when the Flames don't get a chance to ruin the prospect.

 

Out of everyone mentioned above, imho only Tkachuk reached his potential.

 

And he didn't do it here.

mid go so far to mention Valamaki as well. If we didn't play him in the NHL as early in his career as we did, then maybe he'd not possibly, in my view, entitlement issues. 
 

he could play in the NHL and had NHL ability, but not a complete game, which Sutter felt needed to develop. 

 

All of theses examples are rooted in the fact the Flames hardly ever have developed prospects able to fill depth in the organization. 
 

some examples were Mange and Dube, but Sutter also felt Dube was up too early. I think I felt that way too. 

[travel_dude]

25 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

mid go so far to mention Valamaki as well. If we didn't play him in the NHL as early in his career as we did, then maybe he'd not possibly, in my view, entitlement issues. 
 

he could play in the NHL and had NHL ability, but not a complete game, which Sutter felt needed to develop. 

 

All of theses examples are rooted in the fact the Flames hardly ever have developed prospects able to fill depth in the organization. 
 

some examples were Mange and Dube, but Sutter also felt Dube was up too early. I think I felt that way too. 

 

JJ is trolling everyone here with his narritive.

Using past players as examples to match his point.  

Inventing stories like Gaudreau wasn't developed here or that Monahan was ruined.

Bennett seems fine, don't you think?  Got away from Sutter.

Prior and last usage suggest we pushed him down and out.

Clean slate, here's Lucic for you.

 

Do you think Valimaki has entitlement issues?

It's one thing to work with a player that is on your roster.

It's quite another to publicly criticize him. 

And push him out of the lineup because the team made lots of mistakes.

Valued Mackey over him, then Stone over Mackey.

 

The AHL may be a development league, but at what point is development ever complete?

Phillips now that he's a pending UFA while leading the league?

Duehr, where he is only capable of 4th line?  And that was sitting out after his first goal.

Ruzicka and Pelletier where they are only useful as a motivator for your vets sitting out?

 

Whatever culture we had last year, buoyed by team success, is gone.

You make a mistake as a kid, you are out.

You make one as a vet, you get a couple more chances to prove yourself.

If you re on the nice list, you get to stay in.

[jjgallow]

2 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

Using past players as examples to match his point.  

 

Ummm

 

Read up above, that was you.  then you asked me to respond.  Maybe I shouldn't have anyway, I'm not trolling anybody.  Good signing, case closed.

[The_People1]

7 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

ok lol.   I will settle at that.  Flames had to assign him to the NHL.  But not really.

 

But, they kinda did have to.

 

Maybe what I should have said instead of "fix the College rules", is, fix how the College and CHL rules work together.

 

Great we got him signed.  Really great.

 

Development wise, I think most of us know this is risky, though.  Way, way too risky.    

 

I'm gonna say it.... if there's a team out there other than the Flames who thinks he belongs in the NHL right now, and has a comparable prospect that can be developed properly...a trade worth considering.

 

The AHL has a rule to prevent stacking the AHL team for a playoff run.  So there's like a roster freeze of sorts.  Can't add anyone to the AHL for the rest of this season.

[robrob74]

2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

JJ is trolling everyone here with his narritive.

Using past players as examples to match his point.  

Inventing stories like Gaudreau wasn't developed here or that Monahan was ruined.

Bennett seems fine, don't you think?  Got away from Sutter.

Prior and last usage suggest we pushed him down and out.

Clean slate, here's Lucic for you.

 

Do you think Valimaki has entitlement issues?

It's one thing to work with a player that is on your roster.

It's quite another to publicly criticize him. 

And push him out of the lineup because the team made lots of mistakes.

Valued Mackey over him, then Stone over Mackey.

 

The AHL may be a development league, but at what point is development ever complete?

Phillips now that he's a pending UFA while leading the league?

Duehr, where he is only capable of 4th line?  And that was sitting out after his first goal.

Ruzicka and Pelletier where they are only useful as a motivator for your vets sitting out?

 

Whatever culture we had last year, buoyed by team success, is gone.

You make a mistake as a kid, you are out.

You make one as a vet, you get a couple more chances to prove yourself.

If you re on the nice list, you get to stay in.

It was Sutter that implied some young players had entitlement issues and one was definitely Dube in his round about way of describing them. Valamaki was a young player at the time as well. 
 

I am of the opinion that I would have taken time to develop Monahan, Bennett. Gaudreau was pretty much developed. 

[conundrumed]

In sorta related news, Harvard teammate scored his 1st goal on his 1st NHL shot for the Canadiens tonight.