Matthew Coronato

[robrob74]

2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

I think the AHL doesn't like teams sending their NHL players to flood the teams.  In other words buying a Calder Cup.

There was a cutoff for that very reason, since the AHL playoffs start at roughly the same time.

 

 

 

 

I totally understand that, but I think that a college player that you own rights to isn't quite an NHLer flooding the AHL team. That's all I mean. I don't want teams to be sending players down just to do so either. But on this occasion, and for other teams for that matter, it just seems odd that a college player coming out of college can't play in the AHL, but can in the NHL, why can't it be that he tries NHL but if they can't make it, then get sent down and play there?

[cross16]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

I'll agree on the good skater and add he goes hard to the net, has a good shot and even better releases. His D play is above average for a scorer.

He's played some C, but he's a winger.

I've seen some conversations about him playing C, but that was circumstantial. He's not a C.

 

Treliving has already said exactly this. Was a center due to injuries but they feel he's a winger and this game strengths lend themselves to wing and not center. 

 

22 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

I totally understand that, but I think that a college player that you own rights to isn't quite an NHLer flooding the AHL team. That's all I mean. I don't want teams to be sending players down just to do so either. But on this occasion, and for other teams for that matter, it just seems odd that a college player coming out of college can't play in the AHL, but can in the NHL, why can't it be that he tries NHL but if they can't make it, then get sent down and play there?

 

Well it's not that they can't it just depends on the negotiation. There was the option to sign him to an NHL that started in 23/24 and then an AHL tryout agreement for the rest of the AHL season/playoffs. You'll see a lot of players sign these in the coming weeks I'd bet. 

 

In an agreement between 2 leagues I don't think you can have rules that cover every single scenario. This is just a really small subsection of the rules that no one probably feels like is worth implementing. 

[The_People1]

8 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

Beyond silly that this is a thing. We honestly think that Gaudreau played 6 years, played through multiple coaches, engaged in extension talks, had a career year, then engaged in extension talks again all the while secretly plotting to get back at the Flames? The same guy who signed in Columbus for 7 years because he misplayed the market? This is tinfoil hat stuff. 

 

I just think this is all getting way, way ahead of ourselves and this process is more procedural. Contract's signed, he's in the organization and how he's really no different than a Pelletier, Zary, Wolf or any other player who had to earn their way onto the club. Do what is right for his development and if that includes the A then so be it, and it shouldn't be viewed negatively.

 

End of the day let's not overrate the prospect/player just because he's a good news story in a crap season. 

 

And yet, Gaudreau exactly engaged in extension talks only to lead on BT and ownership and then walked away in the 11th hour.  He did exactly that.  His actions proved he played management despite anything he says publicly for PR purposes.  He was pushed around many years ago because he didn't have leverage and so then he returned the favour when he had it.

 

I'm just saying, this is not a big deal and I'm not trying to make something out of nothing.  Simply saying, it's appreciated when an organization spoils it's top prospects.  Maybe try that and they won't leave the first chance they get.

[conundrumed]

10 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

Treliving has already said exactly this. Was a center due to injuries but they feel he's a winger and this game strengths lend themselves to wing and not center. 

 

 

Well it's not that they can't it just depends on the negotiation. There was the option to sign him to an NHL that started in 23/24 and then an AHL tryout agreement for the rest of the AHL season/playoffs. You'll see a lot of players sign these in the coming weeks I'd bet. 

 

In an agreement between 2 leagues I don't think you can have rules that cover every single scenario. This is just a really small subsection of the rules that no one probably feels like is worth implementing. 

Exactly. U of Denver and Wings draft pick Carter Mazur signed yesterday as an AHL try-out so he'll report to Grand Rapids. It's the same 3yr ELC, just a different component to the signing. For an example of what @cross16 is saying.

Off topic, that makes Mazur, Wallinder and Kasper filing into GR for an early look for next year's camp and a stealthy move. Flint's Amadeus Lombardi would be a 4th but Flint starts playoffs Friday and may get past the 1st rd, though not the 2nd rd. Uh-oh,,,I'll save it for my Wings thread.lol

[DirtyDeeds]

On 3/26/2023 at 7:58 PM, travel_dude said:

 

 

We are basically one WPG win and a CGY loss away from being eliminated.

 

This is really misleading TD. Why would you state it this way?

 

We play them on April 5th. So that game is the only must win. If we win that one we only need "1 more win" than they get. Same number of games remaining after our win last night against LA .

 

[cross16]

16 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

And yet, Gaudreau exactly engaged in extension talks only to lead on BT and ownership and then walked away in the 11th hour.  He did exactly that.  His actions proved he played management despite anything he says publicly for PR purposes.  He was pushed around many years ago because he didn't have leverage and so then he returned the favour when he had it.

 

I'm just saying, this is not a big deal and I'm not trying to make something out of nothing.  Simply saying, it's appreciated when an organization spoils it's top prospects.  Maybe try that and they won't leave the first chance they get.

 

It doesn't prove anything because there is no proof this is what he did, it's just your theory. 

 

I know for a fact the Flames treated Gaudreau extremely well throughout his whole career. If you want to point to 1 negotiation to try and disprove that fine but as I said I think that is tinfoil hat stuff. 

 

I don't think how the Flames treat their players is an issue here and if it is then there is one person you might want to look at it and it's not the GM. 

[jjgallow]

It's hard for me to walk away from a good old fashioned Gaudreau arguement, but there's another on topic controversy to be had.

 

So how does it work with Coronato now that he seems to be with the big team?  How many games before he can be sent down without being waived?

 

It looks a lot to me like a publicity stunt, or possibly part of the contract negotiation.

 

Seems wreckless, dangerous.   My primary concern is Coronato getting injured.

 

Secondary concern is that skipping a development step has harmed almost every Flames first rounder I can think of except Maybe Tkachuk.   And that doesn't mean it helped him.

 

I'm not saying Coronato can't score a few quick ones on addrenalin and become a fan favourite.  I've seen that show and it wouldn't surprise me.  but I don't see this ending well.   Hope I'm wrong 😕

                               

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

It doesn't prove anything because there is no proof this is what he did, it's just your theory. 

 

I know for a fact the Flames treated Gaudreau extremely well throughout his whole career. If you want to point to 1 negotiation to try and disprove that fine but as I said I think that is tinfoil hat stuff. 

 

I don't think how the Flames treat their players is an issue here and if it is then there is one person you might want to look at it and it's not the GM. 

 

Gaudreau's actions revealed he never negotiated in good faith because his terms and demands were all met and he still turns down the offer.  "Plotted revenge" is a strong term and that's not what I am suggesting.  More like, he simply never respected the organization enough to let them know his intentions early.  That's not a tinfoil hat thing and is simply what his actions revealed to us.

 

And hey, look at what we did to Mark Giordano.  Sent him to Europe for a year because he wasn't priority here only to make amends after.  Giordano was able to forgive and forget to become our captain and all that great stuff.  Gaudreau couldn't.  It just comes down to the individual.

 

And yes, Gaudreau misplayed the market.  Him not negotiating in good faith with us and him failing to sign in Philly are two events that can happen together.  And it did.

[conundrumed]

A lot of drama being invented for an everyday ordinary signing.

[travel_dude]

8 hours ago, DirtyDeeds said:

This is really misleading TD. Why would you state it this way?

 

We play them on April 5th. So that game is the only must win. If we win that one we only need "1 more win" than they get. Same number of games remaining after our win last night against LA .

 

 

That's the negative side of me coming out.

Probably should have stated it as one WPG win against us and a CGY loss to another team.

If you combine the two things, we would only get to 93 points.

 

I haven't seen the "magic number" for the playoffs yet.

VAN and STL would be hard pressed to finish above us and even harder to make the playoffs.

I think they can only get 91 max.

I doubt 91 would be the cutoff.

 

Sorry to be a Debbie Downer, but I haven't seen enough to think we will be winning 6 of 7 games.

 

 

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, jjgallow said:

It's hard for me to walk away from a good old fashioned Gaudreau arguement, but there's another on topic controversy to be had.

 

So how does it work with Coronato now that he seems to be with the big team?  How many games before he can be sent down without being waived?

 

It looks a lot, to me, like a publicity stunt, or possibly part of the contract negotiation.

 

Seems wreckless, dangerous.   My primary concern is Coronato getting injured.

 

Secondary concern is that skipping a development step has harmed almost every Flames first rounder I can think of except Maybe Tkachuk.   And that doesn't mean it helped him.

 

I'm not saying Coronato can't score a few quick ones on addrenalin and become a fan favourite.  I've seen that show and it wouldn't surprise me.  but I don't see this ending well.   Hope I'm wrong 😕

                               

 

It would be about the same as when we played Gaudreau.

Why would you think that a signing in the NHL only suggests it's a publicity stunt.

The "burn a year" part is an offer to eliminate one year of the RFA eligibility.

That's gives him an extra incentive.

 

Every game and every NHL pre-season game has risk of injury.

 

I don't see the end of the season as being a big deal.

He's not likely to be in the playoffs should we get in.

If we are eliminated after three or so losses from making the playoffs, then we do what we always do.

Call up players, play them, play the kids.

[cross16]

33 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

A lot of drama being invented for an everyday ordinary signing.

 

no kidding....

This is nuts

[zima]

Seems every time Ed gets a chance at a top 6 picks the rules stay the same but now that Ed is no longer a low draft pick team all the rules change heaven for bit Calgary might get the opportunity to get a decent pick

[cross16]

43 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Gaudreau's actions revealed he never negotiated in good faith because his terms and demands were all met and he still turns down the offer.  "Plotted revenge" is a strong term and that's not what I am suggesting.  More like, he simply never respected the organization enough to let them know his intentions early.  That's not a tinfoil hat thing and is simply what his actions revealed to us.

 

And hey, look at what we did to Mark Giordano.  Sent him to Europe for a year because he wasn't priority here only to make amends after.  Giordano was able to forgive and forget to become our captain and all that great stuff.  Gaudreau couldn't.  It just comes down to the individual.

 

And yes, Gaudreau misplayed the market.  Him not negotiating in good faith with us and him failing to sign in Philly are two events that can happen together.  And it did.

 

Or maybe he is a human being that struggled to make a really challenging decision, didn't want to make it, put it off until he no longer could and then made it when he had to? I really think it's as simple as that and it doesn't have to mean bad faith, that's just an opinion and assuming so is silly personally. 

 

Funny discussion. Most here think the Flames are not ruthless enough (should rebuild sooner, trade for more picks) but then they were too nice with Gaudreau and now need to be extra nice to Coronato

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

A lot of drama being invented for an everyday ordinary signing.

 

There are unwritten rules though.  

[The_People1]

24 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Or maybe he is a human being that struggled to make a really challenging decision, didn't want to make it, put it off until he no longer could and then made it when he had to? I really think it's as simple as that and it doesn't have to mean bad faith, that's just an opinion and assuming so is silly personally. 

 

Funny discussion. Most here think the Flames are not ruthless enough (should rebuild sooner, trade for more picks) but then they were too nice with Gaudreau and now need to be extra nice to Coronato

 

Based on BT and ownership's reaction to Gaudreau's antics, you really feel there was no bad faith from Gaudreau's camp?  The Flames thought they were negotiating but in the end it didn't even matter.   They were led on 100%.

 

Anyways, treating people fair is just the basics.  If we want to build a long term relationship with Coronato, then let's start off on the right foot.  I feel that's playing him in the NHL next season... At least to start.  If he totally bombs then of course send him to AHL.  He would agree to that too in that situation.

[cross16]

30 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Based on BT and ownership's reaction to Gaudreau's antics, you really feel there was no bad faith from Gaudreau's camp?  The Flames thought they were negotiating but in the end it didn't even matter.   They were led on 100%.

 

Anyways, treating people fair is just the basics.  If we want to build a long term relationship with Coronato, then let's start off on the right foot.  I feel that's playing him in the NHL next season... At least to start.  If he totally bombs then of course send him to AHL.  He would agree to that too in that situation.

 

What reaction? I have no reason to believe, based on everything i've heard, read and seen, he negotiated in bad faith. I believe he was considering signing in Calgary and as long as he was willing to consider it I don't see how it's bad faith. 

 

I'm not suggesting he NEEDS to be in the AHL just that it's a very viable option and I don't think him being in the AHL has any negative connotation to it. I think at the end of the day all the Flames need to do is give him a real shot at the NHL. If that doesn't happen then I would agree you have risk to the relationship but I also have no reason to believe the Flames won't give him a fair shot. 

 

I don't think anything needs to be promised and you can do danger by promising too (see Sven Baertschi). 

[jjgallow]

6 hours ago, conundrumed said:

A lot of drama being invented for an everyday ordinary signing.

 

Adam Fox and Erixon say hi lol. 

 

but yeah i suppose

[jjgallow]

6 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

It would be about the same as when we played Gaudreau.

Why would you think that a signing in the NHL only suggests it's a publicity stunt.

The "burn a year" part is an offer to eliminate one year of the RFA eligibility.

That's gives him an extra incentive.

 

Every game and every NHL pre-season game has risk of injury.

 

I don't see the end of the season as being a big deal.

He's not likely to be in the playoffs should we get in.

If we are eliminated after three or so losses from making the playoffs, then we do what we always do.

Call up players, play them, play the kids.

 

It would be the same as Gaudreau if we started playing Gaudreau a year earlier than we did and if Gaudreau was about half as good as he was imho.

 

I don't mean the signing, I mean the NHL assignment.  And yes, I have contract learning disability.   But as I understood it from @cross16 we didn't have to put him straight into the NHL.

[cross16]

41 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

It would be the same as Gaudreau if we started playing Gaudreau a year earlier than we did and if Gaudreau was about half as good as he was imho.

 

I don't mean the signing, I mean the NHL assignment.  And yes, I have contract learning disability.   But as I understood it from @cross16 we didn't have to put him straight into the NHL.

not the case. Options were:

 

1 sign him to an NHL effective this year. This option means you cannot be assigned to the AHL and must stay on the NHL roster. 
 

Option 2. Sign him to an NHL deal that would have started next year. Then they could have signed him to AHL try out deal for the rest of the season. Risk here was Coronato could have said no and gone back to school for another year and be closer to UFA. 
 

there was no option to sign him to an nhl deal this year and put him in the AHL. AHL rules prevent it. 

[jjgallow]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

not the case. Options were:

 

1 sign him to an NHL effective this year. This option means you cannot be assigned to the AHL and must stay on the NHL roster. 
 

Option 2. Sign him to an NHL deal that would have started next year. Then they could have signed him to AHL try out deal for the rest of the season. Risk here was Coronato could have said no and gone back to school for another year and be closer to UFA. 
 

there was no option to sign him to an nhl deal this year and put him in the AHL. AHL rules prevent it. 

 

I see.  So...

 

Coronato could have said "NHL now is all I will sign", and Flames would have then been limited to those terms?

 

IF so, and I am not good with the contract metaverse, then that is almost forgiveable but imho it may not have been the smartest move Coronato ever made.  Time will tell.

 

They need to fix US College rules.  man.

[conundrumed]

8 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

There are unwritten rules though.  

The illusory truth effect is strong with this one.

[The_People1]

8 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

What reaction? I have no reason to believe, based on everything i've heard, read and seen, he negotiated in bad faith. I believe he was considering signing in Calgary and as long as he was willing to consider it I don't see how it's bad faith. 

 

Is there truth to Murray Edwards calling Gaudreau at the very end and screamed at him for leading the Flames on?  That's the reaction I'm talking about.  Our side clearly didn't feel Gaudreau negotiated in good faith.  Simply wasted our time.

 

8 hours ago, cross16 said:

I'm not suggesting he NEEDS to be in the AHL just that it's a very viable option and I don't think him being in the AHL has any negative connotation to it. I think at the end of the day all the Flames need to do is give him a real shot at the NHL. If that doesn't happen then I would agree you have risk to the relationship but I also have no reason to believe the Flames won't give him a fair shot. 

 

I don't think anything needs to be promised and you can do danger by promising too (see Sven Baertschi). 

 

Yes we are not far in opinion on Coronato.  We also don't know how negotiations went behind closed doors but I'm just saying.  It's nice to show appreciation for signing with us by playing him on the starting roster next season.  Not saying "give him a free pass" but at least "it's his to lose" rather than "you have to steal the job from someone else".

 

I believe we showed the same courtesy to Sean Monahan and Sam Bennett.  Those two relationships were solid throughout their time here.

[The_People1]

52 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

The illusory truth effect is strong with this one.

 

Not sure where this is coming from.  There wasn't really any drama to begin with.  Just discussions and sharing opinions.

[jjgallow]

 

I disagree with all of you.  You are all wrong, and I am right.

 

 

p.s.. I told you so.