2023 Calgary Flames NHL Draft

[conundrumed]

7 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

It's really whoever falls to us.  I would prioritize Reinbacher, Sandin-pellikka, Yager, and Danielson.  After that, take whoever falls to us.  Don't over think it.  Don't reach for Ritchie or Simashev.

I feel like Danielson is a “safe” pick. Also, besides the NHL, in his D+1 year. Why is Ritchie a reach? Are we playing the short tourney on big ice game again? The difference between the 2 is negligible. I see SN has us landing at Sale in their mock. I can get with that. That’s a steal, doubt he’s there.

edit

Simashev isn't a reach either. Or Heidt, Musty, Stenberg, Honzek, Willander, Cristall.

You're painting yourself into a corner on Danielson and Yager, there are arguments against them as much as the rest. I believe you're being WHL-centric. I remember when GM Sutter had the notion it's a "tougher" league, which is entirely incorrect.

ps: let's hire Mark Hunter to GM. That's our best option imho.

[The_People1]

4 hours ago, conundrumed said:

I feel like Danielson is a “safe” pick. Also, besides the NHL, in his D+1 year. Why is Ritchie a reach? Are we playing the short tourney on big ice game again? The difference between the 2 is negligible. I see SN has us landing at Sale in their mock. I can get with that. That’s a steal, doubt he’s there.

edit

Simashev isn't a reach either. Or Heidt, Musty, Stenberg, Honzek, Willander, Cristall.

You're painting yourself into a corner on Danielson and Yager, there are arguments against them as much as the rest. I believe you're being WHL-centric. I remember when GM Sutter had the notion it's a "tougher" league, which is entirely incorrect.

ps: let's hire Mark Hunter to GM. That's our best option imho.

 

Cristall looks like top 10 talent.  He's a bit small but he's shifty, smart, sees the ice well, has elite hesitations and fakes.  Right after Bedard is Cristall in average points per game.  Burnaby kid.  Hard to see VAN pass him up picking 10th.  If he falls to us, then we have to take him over the RHS kids.

[The_People1]

4 hours ago, conundrumed said:

I feel like Danielson is a “safe” pick. Also, besides the NHL, in his D+1 year. Why is Ritchie a reach? Are we playing the short tourney on big ice game again? The difference between the 2 is negligible. I see SN has us landing at Sale in their mock. I can get with that. That’s a steal, doubt he’s there.

edit

Simashev isn't a reach either. Or Heidt, Musty, Stenberg, Honzek, Willander, Cristall.

You're painting yourself into a corner on Danielson and Yager, there are arguments against them as much as the rest. I believe you're being WHL-centric. I remember when GM Sutter had the notion it's a "tougher" league, which is entirely incorrect.

ps: let's hire Mark Hunter to GM. That's our best option imho.

 

Sale highlight packages doesn't look so good.  I don't get the hype.  He looks like a very boring player... Safe maybe.  Great shot but that's about it.  Can't argue that he's a kid who is putting up decent numbers in a men's league (are we allowed to call it that anymore?). 

[conundrumed]

2 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Sale highlight packages doesn't look so good.  I don't get the hype.  He looks like a very boring player... Safe maybe.  Great shot but that's about it.  Can't argue that he's a kid who is putting up decent numbers in a men's league (are we allowed to call it that anymore?). 

Excellent skater and vision as well, great hands, high IQ reading what's transpiring. I'll be surprised if he gets passed 10. He's got a pretty big O toolbox, and within this draft class a lot of his various skills are high end. Not great defensively, but the O skills are dynamic. I have him at 8th, before Leonard and Dvorsky.

[Thebrewcrew]

Pronman of the Athletic released his first mock.

 

He has the Flames taking Barlow, which would be a really exciting pick

[The_People1]

5 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Pronman of the Athletic released his first mock.

 

He has the Flames taking Barlow, which would be a really exciting pick

 

Depends who was left on the board when the Flames pick.

[Thebrewcrew]

54 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Depends who was left on the board when the Flames pick.

He has Yager, Sale and Moore still on the board. Those are three players that have been talked about quite a bit on here.

 

But if it's Barlow, it's exciting. To score 46 and be a captain at 18 is really impressive

[The_People1]

57 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

He has Yager, Sale and Moore still on the board. Those are three players that have been talked about quite a bit on here.

 

But if it's Barlow, it's exciting. To score 46 and be a captain at 18 is really impressive

 

I just googled the Athletic article.

 

Reinbacher goes 5th.

Honzek at 9th.

Wallinder at 10th.

Moore at 19.

Yager at 20.

 

Most shocking is probably Andrew Cristall falls completely out of the first round.

 

Michkov to WAS at 8th makes a lot of sense.  If there's a team with lots of Russian players who can convince Michkov to come over to NA, then it's WAS.

 

First time I saw anyone rank Wallinder in the top 10.  Is he really better than Sandin-Pellikka?

 

Oliver Moore goes 19th

[Thebrewcrew]

10 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

I just googled the Athletic article.

 

Reinbacher goes 5th.

Honzek at 9th.

Wallinder at 10th.

Moore at 19.

Yager at 20.

 

Most shocking is probably Andrew Cristall falls completely out of the first round.

 

Michkov to WAS at 8th makes a lot of sense.  If there's a team with lots of Russian players who can convince Michkov to come over to NA, then it's WAS.

 

First time I saw anyone rank Wallinder in the top 10.  Is he really better than Sandin-Pellikka?

 

Oliver Moore goes 19th

I’m not a Pronman fan by any means.

 

Cristall out of the first is funny. One of the best point producers in the dub on a bad team. Kelowna is a really good program, even if they’re rebuilding, Cristall is in a good spot and will go in the 1st.

 

Honzek went too early for me. Good player, adored to NA rather quickly. Looks a lot like Ruzicka when he was in junior.

 

Right now I’ve got Michkov to either MTL

or WSH.

 

I really like Moore. It would be a bit of a shame if the Flames pass on him. But in this case, I like Barlow too. But with Moore, you get a lot of speed. Not something the Flames have enough of 

[JTech780]

21 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I’m not a Pronman fan by any means.

 

Cristall out of the first is funny. One of the best point producers in the dub on a bad team. Kelowna is a really good program, even if they’re rebuilding, Cristall is in a good spot and will go in the 1st.

 

Honzek went too early for me. Good player, adored to NA rather quickly. Looks a lot like Ruzicka when he was in junior.

 

Right now I’ve got Michkov to either MTL

or WSH.

 

I really like Moore. It would be a bit of a shame if the Flames pass on him. But in this case, I like Barlow too. But with Moore, you get a lot of speed. Not something the Flames have enough of 

I am not a fan of Pronman either, and it’s funny because usually he is higher on the small skilled guys than everyone else, so having Cristall out of the 1st is surprising.

 

Moore reminds me of Barzal and we missed out on Barzal, so I would be disappointed if we passed on Moore.

[The_People1]

17 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I’m not a Pronman fan by any means.

 

Cristall out of the first is funny. One of the best point producers in the dub on a bad team. Kelowna is a really good program, even if they’re rebuilding, Cristall is in a good spot and will go in the 1st.

 

Honzek went too early for me. Good player, adored to NA rather quickly. Looks a lot like Ruzicka when he was in junior.

 

Right now I’ve got Michkov to either MTL

or WSH.

 

I really like Moore. It would be a bit of a shame if the Flames pass on him. But in this case, I like Barlow too. But with Moore, you get a lot of speed. Not something the Flames have enough of 

 

I agree about Honzek.  He looks and plays like Ruzicka except maybe better at the same age.  

 

The Moore highlight package though.  He's a "give me the puck and I'll do it all myself" kind of player.  Very "Sam Bennett" like.  It's no wonder scouts drool over that but I wonder how well that translates to the NHL?  He seems to love to carry the puck all the way and doesn't pass the puck until he finally skates into a corner.  But he tries.  He's not afraid to turn it over.  He makes something out of nothing.  You sort of need that even at the NHL level.

 

The Barlow highlight packages aren't much either.  Non-stop he shoots he scores.  Can't really tell if he can see the ice well and can't tell if he's got high IQ.  At quick glance, he's a high end finisher but I'm left wondering where's the rest of his game?

 

Would Cristall be a better pick of the three?  Like you said, big time points producer.  Only behind Bedard in the WHL for draft eligible players.

 

I like Yager personally but it's just based on highlights.  I can't tell the rest of his game.

[conundrumed]

I've seen Barlow live a few times and televised OS games a few times. He's got more of a complete game than I believe he's getting credited for. Most 17yos are working on aspects of their game, so the November scouting reports pretty much get tossed as they can develop on their weaknesses fairly fluidly when it isn't basic things like skating/shot.

Barlow has the best/most translatable O arsenal after Bedard. He's great at finding slot openings and crashing the net. His shot has power, accuracy and elusive releases. His passing ability is great but he IS the shooter. You'll never worry about him not shooting. He's solid defensively and tends to be having more fun when things get physical.

He's not boom or bust but it seems like he's being depicted that way.

If Barlow is available at 16, it really shouldn't matter who else is. Take the highest ceiling.

[jjgallow]

On 5/10/2023 at 3:58 AM, conundrumed said:

I feel like Danielson is a “safe” pick. Also, besides the NHL, in his D+1 year. Why is Ritchie a reach? Are we playing the short tourney on big ice game again? The difference between the 2 is negligible. I see SN has us landing at Sale in their mock. I can get with that. That’s a steal, doubt he’s there.

edit

Simashev isn't a reach either. Or Heidt, Musty, Stenberg, Honzek, Willander, Cristall.

You're painting yourself into a corner on Danielson and Yager, there are arguments against them as much as the rest. I believe you're being WHL-centric. I remember when GM Sutter had the notion it's a "tougher" league, which is entirely incorrect.

ps: let's hire Mark Hunter to GM. That's our best option imho.

 

to be fair it's not really Peeps painting himself into a corner, he's basing his read on blurts from Button, which in the past have been highly accurate in terms of what the Flames go after.

 

Either way though yes, it's quite a familiar and unnecessary corner for us to be painted into, not that there's anything particularly wrong with Danielson

[conundrumed]

Looking at what might be around our 2nd round at 48oa:

Maxim Strbak. I know that I have him ranked a lot higher, but I'm the only one. RD with size, skating and very sound mechanics defensively. I really like his game.

Cam Allen: a smaller RD (5'11") that may be taking a hit due to his offense drying up and the U18 tourney. Which would be good for us. Watched him live lots. There is little question why he wore the C for U18. He is very good defensively with offensive upside. If the u18 massive gaffes drive him down to us, we've gotta take him. I never saw those in about the dozen OHL games that I saw him.

Jayden Perron: could be a faller due to being 5'8" and Celebrini's rwer. I treat smaller players with a lethal eye, but there is no way around him going past 48. If he were 6'2" he'd be in the top 16 easily. If he does fall, I'll be surprised if he falls past Detroit.

Danny Nelson: 6'3" LW that can skate, use his size and finish. Has a world of potential hiding down the USNTDP roster.

I've always noticed him in all of the right ways watching National team games.

Coulson Pitre: 6'1" RHC that thrives on dirt, grit and determination. He's not making the highlight reels, but he's a safe floor to work with for a 2nd rder. Could top out as an annoying 2C or an intense 4C.

Nick Lardis: plays the game fast af. The knock is he's either a top 6 RW or nothing. His D side of the puck needs a lot of work. The bet would be on his high offensive skills upside. I'd hold out for rd 3, but we don't have a pick there.

There's many more. Thoughts?

[The_People1]

On 5/13/2023 at 8:05 AM, jjgallow said:

 

to be fair it's not really Peeps painting himself into a corner, he's basing his read on blurts from Button, which in the past have been highly accurate in terms of what the Flames go after.

 

Either way though yes, it's quite a familiar and unnecessary corner for us to be painted into, not that there's anything particularly wrong with Danielson

 

Disclaimer: all my opinions for this draft are based only off youtube highlights and random clips on the internet.  I don't feel strongly about any of my own rankings.

[conundrumed]

5 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Disclaimer: all my opinions for this draft are based only off youtube highlights and random clips on the internet.  I don't feel strongly about any of my own rankings.

But it's good that you're looking!! It'll be an interesting draft, someone or 2 will rise and fall. There's prolly 10 players that I wouldn't be against them taking. I don't even think positionally matters. A lot of young Cs move to wing regardless.

I'd kinda like size though, personally. 6'1"+. I think I would quietly cheer Simashev. Could potentially be Seider-like.

But there's such a large number of forwards that will be available.

If it isn't say, Barlow or Dvorsky that falls, I'm not averse to trading down for Musty if he's being underrated.

6'2"/190 but that frame can easily take on 20lbs. Great hands, good skater, good vision. So much there to work with.

He was a lock for USNTDP but surprised everyone by going the jr route, so was picked #1oa by Sudbury. If not for that, we wouldn't be talking about Leonard right now, but Musty.

[The_People1]

5 hours ago, conundrumed said:

But it's good that you're looking!! It'll be an interesting draft, someone or 2 will rise and fall. There's prolly 10 players that I wouldn't be against them taking. I don't even think positionally matters. A lot of young Cs move to wing regardless.

I'd kinda like size though, personally. 6'1"+. I think I would quietly cheer Simashev. Could potentially be Seider-like.

But there's such a large number of forwards that will be available.

If it isn't say, Barlow or Dvorsky that falls, I'm not averse to trading down for Musty if he's being underrated.

6'2"/190 but that frame can easily take on 20lbs. Great hands, good skater, good vision. So much there to work with.

He was a lock for USNTDP but surprised everyone by going the jr route, so was picked #1oa by Sudbury. If not for that, we wouldn't be talking about Leonard right now, but Musty.

 

I just watched some Musty highlights.  Looks good.  He attacks the net with high IQ and vision.  Thinks the game well.  He has size like you say and I could see him being very difficult handle in the NHL once he bulks up a bit more.  Only thing I didn't see was the big one-timer slap shot that the kids ranked in the top 15 have.  But yes, there's so much to work with here.  Ceiling is high.

[conundrumed]

11 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

I just watched some Musty highlights.  Looks good.  He attacks the net with high IQ and vision.  Thinks the game well.  He has size like you say and I could see him being very difficult handle in the NHL once he bulks up a bit more.  Only thing I didn't see was the big one-timer slap shot that the kids ranked in the top 15 have.  But yes, there's so much to work with here.  Ceiling is high.

I think the floor is really safe too. There were a lot of admissions that he really focused on his D game and skating edges this year. He's got the speed, hands, shot and size. A camp to see the pro game and a year of work and he could transition quickly.

I view him a bit like Tkachuk in that he turned his back on the USNTDP for the OHL, though Tkachuk did play for them.

That takes a lot of confidence because you're pissing everyone off.lol Be careful with those guys.

Carey Terrance is another one, plays for Erie. Listed as a 2nd rder. They do that because they want higher competition, which it is. The USHL's a good league, but it's not the O or the Dub. I have little doubt that Musty will rip the O next year. Fair to wager Terrance will be up there too. They're a special breed.

Cross-league stuff intrigues me. If you scattered Smith, Perrault and Leonard across the OHL, would those be their point totals? Not even close, I'd say. The competition is way higher. If you put Musty and Terrance in the USHL, oh yeah, they'd rip it. Big difference. The O isn't a huge step down from University hockey. Most teams have 5+ NHL prospects and 6 more working on it. "Playing against men" vs playing against overall talent.

Makes me wish Fantilli stayed here, honestly. I just don't know what to make of him, from loaded USHL to loaded Michigan. Not saying he isn't great, just question the situations and competition. The game is a lot harder than that, hope he's ready for an abrupt change to a much harder game and a much Satoshi Nakamototier team.

[jjgallow]

On 5/14/2023 at 4:01 AM, conundrumed said:

Looking at what might be around our 2nd round at 48oa:

Maxim Strbak. I know that I have him ranked a lot higher, but I'm the only one. RD with size, skating and very sound mechanics defensively. I really like his game.

Cam Allen: a smaller RD (5'11") that may be taking a hit due to his offense drying up and the U18 tourney. Which would be good for us. Watched him live lots. There is little question why he wore the C for U18. He is very good defensively with offensive upside. If the u18 massive gaffes drive him down to us, we've gotta take him. I never saw those in about the dozen OHL games that I saw him.

Jayden Perron: could be a faller due to being 5'8" and Celebrini's rwer. I treat smaller players with a lethal eye, but there is no way around him going past 48. If he were 6'2" he'd be in the top 16 easily. If he does fall, I'll be surprised if he falls past Detroit.

Danny Nelson: 6'3" LW that can skate, use his size and finish. Has a world of potential hiding down the USNTDP roster.

I've always noticed him in all of the right ways watching National team games.

Coulson Pitre: 6'1" RHC that thrives on dirt, grit and determination. He's not making the highlight reels, but he's a safe floor to work with for a 2nd rder. Could top out as an annoying 2C or an intense 4C.

Nick Lardis: plays the game fast af. The knock is he's either a top 6 RW or nothing. His D side of the puck needs a lot of work. The bet would be on his high offensive skills upside. I'd hold out for rd 3, but we don't have a pick there.

There's many more. Thoughts?

 

Of that list, Perron and Lardis stand out for me.

 

I don't expect either one to be available.  But if they are, you take em.

[jjgallow]

 

I know it's not going to happen but I can't help but wonder how to get a top 7 or so pick in this draft.

Firstly, anything like this requires an Extremely unpopular trade.  but that goes with almost all my suggestions lol.

 

There's been a lot of discussion about how difficult this is, and what team needs are.

 

But what about Incompetency?   Those "we finished our rebuild" GMs?

 

Who this year has a high pick and is also somewhat likely to make a dumb move?

 

There is a 1% chance Bedard doesn't sign with Chicago.  I don't have a big enough tin foil hat for this though.

 

I can see Montreal making a move to ease fan pressures.   

I can see the Flyers totally screwing up.

I can see the Capitals doing something dumb to help out Ovechkin.

I can see Vancouver dropping the ball.

 

In all cases, these teams are...imho,, not that bright.  Please do correct me if I'm wrong on one of em.

  I mean the capitals won the cup not that long ago so they can't be That bad.

 

In all cases I suspect these teams aren't smart enough to want a defenceman.   They want what all poorly managed teams want:   Forwards.  

 

So basically any dealings with any of them would involve Toffoli or Lindholm.

 

 

I know it won't happen.

 

I know.

 

But every year I hope anyway.   I'm of the mindset that we are on year 0 of a 5-7 year rebuild.   Most think that's pessimistic.  It's actually extremely optimistic and a number of things have to go right for it to work.  I'm of the realization that even if we succeed and become a competitor with most likely Chicago in Bedard's Heyday.

 

Realistically the D now could be the best arsenal against that.   Whoever drafts the best D now could have the best chance at shutting down Bedard in his prime.  Either that or Michkov, who does actually have a similar, if not lower percentage, ceiling.    Also I'm not saying we want to build a Sutter team by drafting D.  Just saying we have a bit more time to put forwards together, but the D are a legit bottleneck.   So is goaltending, as the Oilers just demonstrated.

[conundrumed]

Oof Reinbacher, be careful out there.

 

[The_People1]

8 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

I know it's not going to happen but I can't help but wonder how to get a top 7 or so pick in this draft.

Firstly, anything like this requires an Extremely unpopular trade.  but that goes with almost all my suggestions lol.

 

There's been a lot of discussion about how difficult this is, and what team needs are.

 

But what about Incompetency?   Those "we finished our rebuild" GMs?

 

Who this year has a high pick and is also somewhat likely to make a dumb move?

 

There is a 1% chance Bedard doesn't sign with Chicago.  I don't have a big enough tin foil hat for this though.

 

I can see Montreal making a move to ease fan pressures.   

I can see the Flyers totally screwing up.

I can see the Capitals doing something dumb to help out Ovechkin.

I can see Vancouver dropping the ball.

 

In all cases, these teams are...imho,, not that bright.  Please do correct me if I'm wrong on one of em.

  I mean the capitals won the cup not that long ago so they can't be That bad.

 

In all cases I suspect these teams aren't smart enough to want a defenceman.   They want what all poorly managed teams want:   Forwards.  

 

So basically any dealings with any of them would involve Toffoli or Lindholm.

 

 

I know it won't happen.

 

I know.

 

But every year I hope anyway.   I'm of the mindset that we are on year 0 of a 5-7 year rebuild.   Most think that's pessimistic.  It's actually extremely optimistic and a number of things have to go right for it to work.  I'm of the realization that even if we succeed and become a competitor with most likely Chicago in Bedard's Heyday.

 

Realistically the D now could be the best arsenal against that.   Whoever drafts the best D now could have the best chance at shutting down Bedard in his prime.  Either that or Michkov, who does actually have a similar, if not lower percentage, ceiling.    Also I'm not saying we want to build a Sutter team by drafting D.  Just saying we have a bit more time to put forwards together, but the D are a legit bottleneck.   So is goaltending, as the Oilers just demonstrated.

 

It's going to cost a player of Matthew Tkachuk's caliber (and age range) to move up to top 7.  Those teams want an established young player to build around.  The closest we have right now is Rasmus Andersson but even then, I think we have to add our 16th to make it happen.

[The_People1]

12 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Oof Reinbacher, be careful out there.

 

 

Hope this makes him drop in the draft and we pick him at 16.

[jjgallow]

6 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

It's going to cost a player of Matthew Tkachuk's caliber (and age range) to move up to top 7.  Those teams want an established young player to build around.  The closest we have right now is Rasmus Andersson but even then, I think we have to add our 16th to make it happen.

 

Yeah I'm not disagreeing I just can't help myself.   

 

If there's one thing BT's shown us though, first rounders can be traded lol.

 

Andersson is that caliber, but I feel most of these teams aren't bright enough to want a D.   If they were, it would be Andresson or Wolf.

 

Some of the teams picking in the top 10 are picking there for a reason, and pick there often.   The reality is that they happen.  Often though a series of packaged and complex deals.

 

Last year's draft winner was Columbus at #7, which they essentially made with the Senators when you unravel it all.  They got their prodigal RHS D out of it.

 

Year before that was the Yotes.  They won that trade...maybe..I think.

 

Year before that was Ottawa.  Massively won the trade.

 

Year before that was Colorado

 

Year before that not much, except Islanders (with us)

 

Year before that was Rangers.

 

 

Etc. etc etc.

 

Just saying, every year we talk on here about how it's impossible to acquire high picks.  

   Yet every year, we gave away our own picks and some other team acquires high picks.

 

I'd go back further but I am tiring lol

[The_People1]

2 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

Yeah I'm not disagreeing I just can't help myself.   

 

If there's one thing BT's shown us though, first rounders can be traded lol.

 

Andersson is that caliber, but I feel most of these teams aren't bright enough to want a D.   If they were, it would be Andresson or Wolf.

 

Some of the teams picking in the top 10 are picking there for a reason, and pick there often.   The reality is that they happen.  Often though a series of packaged and complex deals.

 

Last year's draft winner was Columbus at #7, which they essentially made with the Senators when you unravel it all.  They got their prodigal RHS D out of it.

 

Year before that was the Yotes.  They won that trade...maybe..I think.

 

Year before that was Ottawa.  Massively won the trade.

 

Year before that was Colorado

 

Year before that not much, except Islanders (with us)

 

Year before that was Rangers.

 

 

Etc. etc etc.

 

Just saying, every year we talk on here about how it's impossible to acquire high picks.  

   Yet every year, we gave away our own picks and some other team acquires high picks.

 

I'd go back further but I am tiring lol

 

It's ironically the best time to trade away a draft pick on the draft floor.  Sell to a team who has fallen in love with a certain prospect.  That's the pick's highest trade value.

 

Similarly, it's the best time to trade away healthy bodies at the TDL to teams who want to go deep in the playoffs.  TDL is the best time to acquire draft picks.