GDT - Blues @ FLAMES Sat 2 April 2022

[sak22]

29 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

We are running out of extras.

The official scoring for the NHL sight has Richie with his 2nd of the season.

He only has one.

 

Hainifn gets the backhand.

How could you forget

 

[flames for life]

The scary part of the last 3 losses is that they are eerily familiar with play last year.  Lots of panic around the net, forwards being soft in their defensive zone; small silly passes that go nowhere but onto the opposing team’s stick.  I won’t fault Markstrom at all because 2/3’rds of the goals against where complete defensive collapses in front of him.

we are not playing the game we were even a month ago.

Watching the lead feet of stone really makes me appreciate the speed of Kylington.  I missed his speed tonight; it could have made a significant difference.

[robrob74]

43 minutes ago, flames for life said:

The scary part of the last 3 losses is that they are eerily familiar with play last year.  Lots of panic around the net, forwards being soft in their defensive zone; small silly passes that go nowhere but onto the opposing team’s stick.  I won’t fault Markstrom at all because 2/3’rds of the goals against where complete defensive collapses in front of him.

we are not playing the game we were even a month ago.

Watching the lead feet of stone really makes me appreciate the speed of Kylington.  I missed his speed tonight; it could have made a significant difference.

you have a way of saying it better then man me. I sound more doom and gloom because I can tend to be more critical or blunt. 
 

I see it too. And a lot of the time in years past our team had better possession stats but more losses. And it looked like this. The mix is weird again. 
 

the honeymoon with Toffoli has gone away and somehow we’ve lost Mangiapane too in the process. Dube has picked it up a bit but it’s been one guy away from the top line that’s pinching In so if the top line doesn’t kill it, we aren’t winning.

[pikey7883]

9 hours ago, robrob74 said:

you have a way of saying it better then man me. I sound more doom and gloom because I can tend to be more critical or blunt. 
 

I see it too. And a lot of the time in years past our team had better possession stats but more losses. And it looked like this. The mix is weird again. 
 

the honeymoon with Toffoli has gone away and somehow we’ve lost Mangiapane too in the process. Dube has picked it up a bit but it’s been one guy away from the top line that’s pinching In so if the top line doesn’t kill it, we aren’t winning.

I think it’s time to try Dube centering Mang and Toff (call it our 3rd line), give them favourable zone time, and let them use their speed. This also gives us a formidable shut down line with Backs, Coleman and Calle. And then last but not least get Rozie back with Looch and Lewis. That’s the recipe for success in the playoffs.

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, pikey7883 said:

I think it’s time to try Dube centering Mang and Toff (call it our 3rd line), give them favourable zone time, and let them use their speed. This also gives us a formidable shut down line with Backs, Coleman and Calle. And then last but not least get Rozie back with Looch and Lewis. That’s the recipe for success in the playoffs.

ya, it’s a tough call:

 

Gaudreau, Lindholm, Tkachuk 

Mangiapane, Dube, Toffoli 

Coleman, Backlund, Jarnkrok

Lucic, Ruzicka, Lewis

Carpenter

 

i needed to visual your suggestions in lines. This isn’t to number or label any lines. 
 

i might try

 

Gaudreau, Lindholm, Tkachuk 

Coleman, Backlund, Toffoli

Mangiapane, Dube, Jarnkrok

Lucic, Ruzicka, Lewis 

Toffoli is beginning to look like he doesn’t mesh. I find him doing a lot of what Dube had been doing skating alone, getting too deep into double or triple coverage.
 

Coleman has also lost the mojo he had after the Florida trip. I’m kind of think similarly to Zima who asked whether anyone felt Coleman was earning his salary. If trying really hard earns him $5+M then yes he has. I guess he’s an expensive penalty killer. Hope he can bring it in the playoffs. Not just try, but get goals too. 
 

 

[travel_dude]

13 hours ago, sak22 said:

How could you forget

 

 

I posted that comment completely forgetting his glorious goal.  How quickly we forget.

[pikey7883]

43 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

ya, it’s a tough call:

 

Gaudreau, Lindholm, Tkachuk 

Mangiapane, Dube, Toffoli 

Coleman, Backlund, Jarnkrok

Lucic, Ruzicka, Lewis

Carpenter

 

i needed to visual your suggestions in lines. This isn’t to number or label any lines. 
 

i might try

 

Gaudreau, Lindholm, Tkachuk 

Coleman, Backlund, Toffoli

Mangiapane, Dube, Jarnkrok

Lucic, Ruzicka, Lewis 

Toffoli is beginning to look like he doesn’t mesh. I find him doing a lot of what Dube had been doing skating alone, getting too deep into double or triple coverage.
 

Coleman has also lost the mojo he had after the Florida trip. I’m kind of think similarly to Zima who asked whether anyone felt Coleman was earning his salary. If trying really hard earns him $5+M then yes he has. I guess he’s an expensive penalty killer. Hope he can bring it in the playoffs. Not just try, but get goals too. 
 

 

Toff is a good trailer guy, usually coming into the zone third, and if guys can get him the puck he’s going to start burying them. As good as Backlund possession numbers are, he doesn’t create opportunities for guys like toffee. My thought was too add some speed on the cycle between Mang and Dube, and hopefully find toffee coming in late. Backs, Coleman, and Calle are an experienced veteran line, who can do a lot of heavy lifting when they’re not scoring, and should be able to tilt the ice in our favour when they’re out there.

[sak22]

What I'm hoping for is that this week will bring them back to a normal looking hockey schedule.  Since the All-Star break they haven't left for more than 1 game trips.  It was basically a month and a half of a home heavy schedule, which to their credit they really capitalized as home wasn't as friendly in the 2021 portion of the season.  Players may get a little too comfortable being at home for so long.

[travel_dude]

14 hours ago, robrob74 said:

you mean a 23 man or you mean 18 

 

There are 20 in total in a game.  No backup goalies allows for an emerg call up.  Less than 18 available skaters would allow for an emerg callup.  After playing a game with 17.  Without Ritchie and Monahan and Kylington, we have 7D, 12F and 2G.  We called up Mackey.  So, we still have extras.  We can call up Ruzie without doing anything with Ricthie or Kylington.  We don't need to send down Mackey even if Kylington comes back.  If Ritchie goes to IR, I believe we can call up a 2nd F.

[travel_dude]

14 hours ago, flames for life said:

The scary part of the last 3 losses is that they are eerily familiar with play last year.  Lots of panic around the net, forwards being soft in their defensive zone; small silly passes that go nowhere but onto the opposing team’s stick.  I won’t fault Markstrom at all because 2/3’rds of the goals against where complete defensive collapses in front of him.

we are not playing the game we were even a month ago.

Watching the lead feet of stone really makes me appreciate the speed of Kylington.  I missed his speed tonight; it could have made a significant difference.

 

Okay, I get that there are a lot of the same players, but we have to stop using last year as a comp with this team.  We aren't that team.  While some things may be hard to completely remove, we have beat that out of daily play.  What we have seen recently is the exposure of some individual mistakes that get amplified because of the close games.

 

One weird observation about the Dome.  Holy crap is it a quiet building.  The fans aren't close to having a fever pitch.  The only loud game was the Oilers one.  Where is the noise?  You can here the players talking, the refs telling the players to f'n move the puck, the "oh F" when a player blows a play.

[flames for life]

46 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Okay, I get that there are a lot of the same players, but we have to stop using last year as a comp with this team.  We aren't that team.  While some things may be hard to completely remove, we have beat that out of daily play.  What we have seen recently is the exposure of some individual mistakes that get amplified because of the close games.

 

One weird observation about the Dome.  Holy crap is it a quiet building.  The fans aren't close to having a fever pitch.  The only loud game was the Oilers one.  Where is the noise?  You can here the players talking, the refs telling the players to f'n move the puck, the "oh F" when a player blows a play.

I get that this team isn’t last year’s team, but—and it’s a big concern, panic play is contagious and generates bad habits.  This is what I saw a lot of last year.  When pressured on the boards, or challenged constantly, players second guessed themselves or made blind passes without thinking through the play.  Gamble when it’s time to, but ensure you’re covered on the back line.  

[travel_dude]

40 minutes ago, flames for life said:

I get that this team isn’t last year’s team, but—and it’s a big concern, panic play is contagious and generates bad habits.  This is what I saw a lot of last year.  When pressured on the boards, or challenged constantly, players second guessed themselves or made blind passes without thinking through the play.  Gamble when it’s time to, but ensure you’re covered on the back line.  

 

Forget about what the team did last year.  It's clouding your judgement.  I don't see panic creeping in.  I do see an element of fatigue from playing at a top level since early January.  So many games crammed into a otherwise tough schedule.  The mental side of the game suffers the most from fatigue, since they train at a high level physically.  Sure you see Lucic looking like he is in mud, but he is never weak.  He makes more mental mistakes than physical ones.  

 

I know what you are talking about with blind passes.  A lot of that is reverting to some plays that work, like a long bomb to Johnny.  Stretching the ice out in a close checking game.  That works some of the time, but isn't a good strategy in a close game.  What makes it bad is sometimes putting too much mustard on it, and it's out of reach.  Three losses in three games looks bad, but really it's an OT game undecided between two close games where one or two mistakes made the difference.  Mistakes that can be cleaned up.  

[zima]

It seems to me that Markstrom seems to need a break our team is out playing these other teams but coming out on the losing end which tells me he needs some much needed time on the bench just to relax a couple of games perhaps 

[MP5029]

1 hour ago, zima said:

It seems to me that Markstrom seems to need a break our team is out playing these other teams but coming out on the losing end which tells me he needs some much needed time on the bench just to relax a couple of games perhaps 

This is very possible 

[MP5029]

One thing they did a poor job of in the 1st 2 periods is getting inform of the opposition net….I think Kelly mentioned it around the 1/2 way point of the 3rd but I noticed it in the 2nd 

[cross16]

I'm not seeing panic in their game either, i see a team trying to adjust. Lately I think teams are playing the Flames differently at 5 on 5, they are clogging up the neutral zone. I think the book is out on how good the Flames were in transition and teams are understanding that in order to stop/limit the Flames you've got to slow them down in the neutral zone so I've been noticing a lot more bodies in the neutral zone for the opposition over the last couple weeks, the passes out of the zone look different and it's causing players to reset, find other option and they've rushed it. Not a surprise given the message the whole season has been "play fast". 

 

Thought they did a better job against the Blues and I think it's an adjustment they'll make. I think they are doing a lot of things well and if they just tighten up a bit in the d zone they'll be fine. 

[flames for life]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

I'm not seeing panic in their game either, i see a team trying to adjust. Lately I think teams are playing the Flames differently at 5 on 5, they are clogging up the neutral zone. I think the book is out on how good the Flames were in transition and teams are understanding that in order to stop/limit the Flames you've got to slow them down in the neutral zone so I've been noticing a lot more bodies in the neutral zone for the opposition over the last couple weeks, the passes out of the zone look different and it's causing players to reset, find other option and they've rushed it. Not a surprise given the message the whole season has been "play fast". 

 

Thought they did a better job against the Blues and I think it's an adjustment they'll make. I think they are doing a lot of things well and if they just tighten up a bit in the d zone they'll be fine. 

I agree that teams have studied how to neutralize the speed of the Flames, but wasn’t that to be expected?  You are right when you said the team is trying to adjust; in my mind, the team should always be practicing a variety of scenarios accounting for how teams would try to play them.  Making teams continually guess what they need to do defend our strategy makes for a very dangerous and effective team.  Taking away a team’s ability to anticipate our play negates a major amount of their attack and our mistakes.

[cross16]

1 hour ago, flames for life said:

I agree that teams have studied how to neutralize the speed of the Flames, but wasn’t that to be expected?  You are right when you said the team is trying to adjust; in my mind, the team should always be practicing a variety of scenarios accounting for how teams would try to play them.  Making teams continually guess what they need to do defend our strategy makes for a very dangerous and effective team.  Taking away a team’s ability to anticipate our play negates a major amount of their attack and our mistakes.

 

I'm sure they do, but what's the saying "everyone has a good plan until you get punched in the mouth". 

 

For me you should expect hiccups during a season and they are in one now. To be expected and I just don't view this as a big deal I guess. 

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

19 hours ago, zima said:

It seems to me that Markstrom seems to need a break our team is out playing these other teams but coming out on the losing end which tells me he needs some much needed time on the bench just to relax a couple of games perhaps 

I said this about a few weeks ago, I dont see why theres a need to start Marky this often. The risk of him getting injured/burned out after a couple busy months is too great. 

[travel_dude]

39 minutes ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

I said this about a few weeks ago, I dont see why theres a need to start Marky this often. The risk of him getting injured/burned out after a couple busy months is too great. 

 

As great as the idea sounds, we are fighting to get to the playoffs.  Vladar has been good in his last starts, but.....

He is 2-2-0 in his last 4 starts in March.

 

[sak22]

39 minutes ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

I said this about a few weeks ago, I dont see why theres a need to start Marky this often. The risk of him getting injured/burned out after a couple busy months is too great. 

I think his workload has dropped the last few weeks.  The team only played 3 games in each of the past 2 weeks with 3 two day breaks.  I don't really see too many issues in his game right now, there have been some defensive breakdowns and also some breaks that went his way for much of the season are going against him.

[travel_dude]

10 minutes ago, sak22 said:

I think his workload has dropped the last few weeks.  The team only played 3 games in each of the past 2 weeks with 3 two day breaks.  I don't really see too many issues in his game right now, there have been some defensive breakdowns and also some breaks that went his way for much of the season are going against him.

 

I tend to agree.  What I don't want is him being overworked.  We have a few B2B's left, so that's a no-brainer.  He's not facing a ton of shots right now, and there's not too much he can do with point blank shots or uncovered players deflecting it in.  It would be better if we could have the same thing.  When was the last time we deflected in a puck inside three feet?  Thachuk used to be the master of that.  

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

3 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

As great as the idea sounds, we are fighting to get to the playoffs.  Vladar has been good in his last starts, but.....

He is 2-2-0 in his last 4 starts in March.

 

The team itself is 4-4-2 in its last 10, I'm failing to see the downside of keeping your backup fresh and your starter rested.

 

I may also be i the minority in that  I dont care if they win the division, as long as they have everyone playing at the level needed by the time playoffs come around.

[travel_dude]

Just now, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

The team itself is 4-4-2 in its last 10, I'm failing to see the downside of keeping your backup fresh and your starter rested.

 

I may also be i the minority in that  I dont care if they win the division, as long as they have everyone playing at the level needed by the time playoffs come around.

 

I'm not saying it's right or wrong, just that is what Sutter is doing.

He believes you don't worry about the backup the same as you do a 1B.

He sits until he starts.

You come in cold if Sutter pulls the starter or wants to use the backup in a 2nd of B2B.

Whether I agree doesn't matter.

 

As far as winning the division, it isn't the title Sutter is worried about.

So close between 1st and 3rd, with 4th in the Pacific also being right there.

4th in the Pacific is likely out of the playoffs.

The advantage of 1st in Pacific means we face a WC team, good or bad.

We don't have to face a Pacific team in round one.

 

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

6 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I'm not saying it's right or wrong, just that is what Sutter is doing.

He believes you don't worry about the backup the same as you do a 1B.

He sits until he starts.

You come in cold if Sutter pulls the starter or wants to use the backup in a 2nd of B2B.

Whether I agree doesn't matter.

 

As far as winning the division, it isn't the title Sutter is worried about.

So close between 1st and 3rd, with 4th in the Pacific also being right there.

4th in the Pacific is likely out of the playoffs.

The advantage of 1st in Pacific means we face a WC team, good or bad.

We don't have to face a Pacific team in round one.

 

Unless they can figure out how to answer against tight checking teams like the Kings I'd rather see a matchup against the Coilers first round.