Connor Bedard

[jjgallow]

 

https://www.tsn.ca/connor-bedard-s-hat-trick-leads-canada-to-u18-worlds-final-with-rout-of-sweden-1.1635160

 

IMHO belongs in Flames section 

[Thebrewcrew]

Speak it into existence please 

[robrob74]

8 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Speak it into existence please 

I just posted in response to what Tmac said about the team in the GDT. 
 

The flames need to do a full gut. Trade for as many picks as possible, much like some of the rebuilding teams have done in the past and like what TO did for their retool when their rebuild went awry. 
 

the big difference is, who do we have that teams actually want? 

[Thebrewcrew]

10 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

I just posted in response to what Tmac said about the team in the GDT. 
 

The flames need to do a full gut. Trade for as many picks as possible, much like some of the rebuilding teams have done in the past and like what TO did for their retool when their rebuild went awry. 
 

the big difference is, who do we have that teams actually want? 

I used to be against it. But the way the season has played out has changed my mind. The 2022 and 2023 drafts have the potential to completely alter the course of the franchise.

2022 has Shane Wright, Brad Lambert, Matthew Savoie and yes, another Jack Hughes

2023 you have Bedard and Michkov

 

It takes a ton of luck to win a lottery and there’s no guarantee another rebuild gets you any further ahead than the last one did. But something has to change.

 

anyway it’s probably a waste of energy because the Flames likely believe they can win the cup next year 

[jjgallow]

 

Bedard is impressing me.    He suffered some very unfortunate personal loss lately and honestly I wouldn't have thought less of him if he fell flat for the rest of the season but here he is rising in the rankings (which is hard to do when you're at the top of them).

 

Stanley Cup winners will be made of these next three drafts and I include 2021 in that because it has the defencemen and goaltending you need to win. 

 

It's our turn.

[ABC923]

Good news is that Ott has now tied us in points, and with a game against us that is an easy two points we have a great shot at passing them in draft order. If Van can win a few down the stretch, last place in the North is within our grasp. Unfortunately a top 5 pick will be tough to reach.

[travel_dude]

46 minutes ago, ABC923 said:

Good news is that Ott has now tied us in points, and with a game against us that is an easy two points we have a great shot at passing them in draft order. If Van can win a few down the stretch, last place in the North is within our grasp. Unfortunately a top 5 pick will be tough to reach.

 

Only 2 more years till this guy is drafted.

Leave it to the Oilers to find a way to tank.

 

[jjgallow]

13 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Only 2 more years till this guy is drafted.

Leave it to the Oilers to find a way to tank.

 

 

lol well the Oilers are an ongoing comedy/tragedy this is true.   

 

But if you look at us on paper in 2 years I can't think of a team in the league more likely to draft this guy.

[robrob74]

3 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

lol well the Oilers are an ongoing comedy/tragedy this is true.   

 

But if you look at us on paper in 2 years I can't think of a team in the league more likely to draft this guy.

 

 

Oh don't you worry! We are going to sign the top free agent after all of the top free agents have chosen other teams. Although, last offseason BT did decent with the two signings. He just wasn't able to assess that this team was already on a tail spin. But we will sign them again. We will be drafting 7th overall for the next few years, or 12th. 

[The_People1]

9 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

Oh don't you worry! We are going to sign the top free agent after all of the top free agents have chosen other teams. Although, last offseason BT did decent with the two signings. He just wasn't able to assess that this team was already on a tail spin. But we will sign them again. We will be drafting 7th overall for the next few years, or 12th. 

 

Unless that UFA was lucky charm Taylor Hall.  We need to get him here for 2 years especially after we trade Tkachuk and Gaudreau.  We will need a LW to eat minutes.

[jjgallow]

2 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

 

Oh don't you worry! We are going to sign the top free agent after all of the top free agents have chosen other teams. Although, last offseason BT did decent with the two signings. He just wasn't able to assess that this team was already on a tail spin. But we will sign them again. We will be drafting 7th overall for the next few years, or 12th. 

 

Can't wait for our next goalie signing

 

In all seriousness...things are going to get much worse before they get better but nothing can stay bad forever.   I still have hope for a Stanley cup or two this decade and I don't think anyone can  stop the rebuild anymore so it's just a matter of whether they can screw it up. 

 

Bedard would look real good here.   He continues to impress along with the rest of his draft class

[travel_dude]

17 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

 

Oh don't you worry! We are going to sign the top free agent after all of the top free agents have chosen other teams. Although, last offseason BT did decent with the two signings. He just wasn't able to assess that this team was already on a tail spin. But we will sign them again. We will be drafting 7th overall for the next few years, or 12th. 

 

Whether he didn't understand or wasn't able to get the right return is anyone's guess.  

I'm not sure why you suggest the team was in a tailspin last year.

If anything, we finished the season strong after Ward started as coach.

The playoffs were an iffy results, but we lost a top player in the Dallas series.

Coaching had a lot to do with the results as well.

 

This season is not really a reflection on last year.

Pretty unique season.

Players not coming close to career numbers.

Is that a tailspin, correction or deviation?

[robrob74]

8 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Whether he didn't understand or wasn't able to get the right return is anyone's guess.  

I'm not sure why you suggest the team was in a tailspin last year.

If anything, we finished the season strong after Ward started as coach.

The playoffs were an iffy results, but we lost a top player in the Dallas series.

Coaching had a lot to do with the results as well.

 

This season is not really a reflection on last year.

Pretty unique season.

Players not coming close to career numbers.

Is that a tailspin, correction or deviation?

 

I have a different definition of playing well I guess. I don’t think they played well with Ward as the coach most of the time last year. They got results, a few more wins than losses, and aside from the first seven he won they weren’t really that special last year. They also got lucky that the Jets ended up with a lot of injuries. 
 

Also, I don’t think Tkachuk would have changed the results. Maybe, but I’ve never really seen him as a game breaker that some have. He’s like most on the team, if others aren’t going, he’s easy to shut down too. 
 

if he is such a difference maker, why didn’t he do anything against the Avs and get this team going then? I guess he did have 3 points in the 5 games against the Avs when no one looked good. But from my viewpoint, he doesn’t carry the team like some suggest.

 

To me, the Flames looked like they were playing tentative safe hockey with Ward. They didn’t dictate games, but they got wins. I want my teams to play the part and not just look the part on the stats sheet after the games are all done. 
 

coaching had a bit to do with Dallas, but in all actuality, and maybe you’re not just referring to the goalie pull in the last game, the Flames were lucky to be in the situation where they could have won a game more. 
 

coaching had some, but as we know now, coaching isn’t why this team has sucked, and it’s the players. Even Tkachuk.
 

 

[travel_dude]

16 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

I have a different definition of playing well I guess. I don’t think they played well with Ward as the coach most of the time last year. They got results, a few more wins than losses, and aside from the first seven he won they weren’t really that special last year. They also got lucky that the Jets ended up with a lot of injuries. 
 

Also, I don’t think Tkachuk would have changed the results. Maybe, but I’ve never really seen him as a game breaker that some have. He’s like most on the team, if others aren’t going, he’s easy to shut down too. 
 

if he is such a difference maker, why didn’t he do anything against the Avs and get this team going then? I guess he did have 3 points in the 5 games against the Avs when no one looked good. But from my viewpoint, he doesn’t carry the team like some suggest.

 

To me, the Flames looked like they were playing tentative safe hockey with Ward. They didn’t dictate games, but they got wins. I want my teams to play the part and not just look the part on the stats sheet after the games are all done. 
 

coaching had a bit to do with Dallas, but in all actuality, and maybe you’re not just referring to the goalie pull in the last game, the Flames were lucky to be in the situation where they could have won a game more. 
 

coaching had some, but as we know now, coaching isn’t why this team has sucked, and it’s the players. Even Tkachuk.
 

 

 

Whether I like the overall games they played under Ward (regular season), the team had a winning record.  24-15-3 is nothing to sneer at.  In fact that is a top team pace of 99 points in a 82 game season.  I don't count the Jets series because it was meaningless.  They lost a series to the Stars.  When I say coaching mistakes I'm talking about playing top vs top.  Leaving out Backlund for 2 minutes to finish a game we had taken the lead on.  Not using time outs when we needed to slow the game down.  Rookie coach stuff if you ask me.

 

Back to the players.  Had we been able to complete some trades, we would have a different team.

Trocheck, Kadri, Stone....

We have some good players that need good payers, much like every team in the league.

No McDavid or Matthews, but we have next tier players that don't have complements.

If we are tradng Tkachuk, it better be for the type of return we hoped to get for Gaudreau.

Otherwise, why trade him?

 

To me, the players keeping this team from moving forward are - Gio, Backlund, Lucic, 3rd and 4th lines.

I've got no real problem with Lucic, but his salary is causing a problem.

Backlund - salary not so much, just never gets to a next level.

Gio - too many minutes, not much impact, "Gio's team" issues.

 

To a lesser extent, we have too many LW's, some of them too small.

Gaudreau, Mangiapane, Dube are all good players, but we don't have enugh LW spots to keep them all.

 

[jjgallow]

2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Whether I like the overall games they played under Ward (regular season), the team had a winning record.  24-15-3 is nothing to sneer at.  In fact that is a top team pace of 99 points in a 82 game season.  I don't count the Jets series because it was meaningless.  They lost a series to the Stars.  When I say coaching mistakes I'm talking about playing top vs top.  Leaving out Backlund for 2 minutes to finish a game we had taken the lead on.  Not using time outs when we needed to slow the game down.  Rookie coach stuff if you ask me.

 

Back to the players.  Had we been able to complete some trades, we would have a different team.

Trocheck, Kadri, Stone....

We have some good players that need good payers, much like every team in the league.

No McDavid or Matthews, but we have next tier players that don't have complements.

If we are tradng Tkachuk, it better be for the type of return we hoped to get for Gaudreau.

Otherwise, why trade him?

 

To me, the players keeping this team from moving forward are - Gio, Backlund, Lucic, 3rd and 4th lines.

 

 

That could have been forecast on paper just looking at player ages combined with wear and tear, there really isn't any reason for us to have expected them to make significant impacts in 2021+ and we have more of these types coming.

 

2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

I've got no real problem with Lucic, but his salary is causing a problem.

 

We also new this when we acquired him, it was known then by what the Flames did that they didn't care about 2021+.  And here we are in 2021+.

 

2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

Backlund - salary not so much, just never gets to a next level.

Gio - too many minutes, not much impact, "Gio's team" issues.

 

To a lesser extent, we have too many LW's, some of them too small.

Gaudreau, Mangiapane, Dube are all good players, but we don't have enugh LW spots to keep them all.

 

 

I would argue, rather than "to a lesser extent", this is a defining feature of our team lol.

 

Having said that I do agree with you that the trading history (and lack thereof) was a big big big big big problem.   I don't necessarily agree with you on the trades we should have made, but nearly All of the trades we made we short-sighted immediate benefit, long term loss type trades.   With little regard for potential ceilings and position (such as RW, RD, G, etc).

 

It was like some stats guy just figured if we sum up all our potential points on LW, and compose our team entirely of LW, then that should just work great.   So well, in fact, that we don't even have to plan for the future.

[travel_dude]

12 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

That could have been forecast on paper just looking at player ages combined with wear and tear, there really isn't any reason for us to have expected them to make significant impacts in 2021+ and we have more of these types coming.

 

 

We also new this when we acquired him, it was known then by what the Flames did that they didn't care about 2021+.  And here we are in 2021+.

 

 

I would argue, rather than "to a lesser extent", this is a defining feature of our team lol.

 

Having said that I do agree with you that the trading history (and lack thereof) was a big big big big big problem.   I don't necessarily agree with you on the trades we should have made, but nearly All of the trades we made we short-sighted immediate benefit, long term loss type trades.   With little regard for potential ceilings and position (such as RW, RD, G, etc).

 

It was like some stats guy just figured if we sum up all our potential points on LW, and compose our team entirely of LW, then that should just work great.   So well, in fact, that we don't even have to plan for the future.

 

Lucic was a trade for a mistake.  Make a good thing of a bad thing.

I can't believe it was the best we could get, but then again his value here was nil.

 

The trades I have the biggest problem with were the ones where we gave up picks.

Russel, Glenx, Hudler, Baertschi, even Bennett were fine.

Hamonic was a poor scouting effort and a dumb trade.

Lazar, Gustafsson, Smith, Elliott just so wrong.

 

As far as the LW's, we have drafted every single one of them.  Isn't Dube a C?  The interesting part is that only Tkachuk was drafted in the 1st round.  The rest were guys you take a flyer on because they put up points and dropped due to being small.  That's not a problem, but bunching them all on wing crowds the top 9.  As such we are using Tkachuk on RW, Dube on RW.  Meanwhile Lucic is playing 3rd line minutes, supposed to be on our shutdown line.  

 

The funny thing is had we given up Valimaki for Stone and Bennett for Rakell, we would be in a different boat.  We could look at trading Backlund a lot easier.  Had we not gone after Hamonic, we might have looked at younger more effective RD.  I think the problem is that the GM believes that Gio is the player that exemplifies the qualities you want from your team.  As a community person, yes.  As a hockey player?  He's just okay.  He has a battle level, which is what you want.  But I think he thinks he can lead the team on the ice.  Other back down to him and defer.  He's a good soldier, but I'm tired of a team of good soldiers.  I want those guys as depth, not on the ice every game.

 

Enough of the preaching.  Decisions will be made by whomever actually decides.  Pro scouting will continue to identify the wrong players.  I don't mind reclamation projects, but only guys that actually had skill to begin with.  We will continue to pass over guys that supposedly have attitude problems (Hoffman, Duclair, Wennberg) in favour of the good guys.  It's Gio's team, so if players don't get along with him or dislike him, they won't be here.